protectyourlimbs: stop bleeding and clean up all the blood... right, gotcha... so your point is even know all the circumstantial evidence in the killing of an unarmed minor points to the fact Zimmerman should have been charged and booked, the circumstantial evidence that he was doing it in self defense is a-ok... okay then... .

I'm not sure that makes sense... So, all of the circumstantial evidence says he should have been charged except for the evidence that says he shouldn't? I may have misunderstood. I say that seriously, not sarcastically.

kingoomieiii: Scerpes: burning_bridge: The two pictures on the left were shown by all of the media outlets. Bias much?


Probably not. The two pics on the left were the ones given to them by law enforcement and the parents of the slain. The two on the right were pics found later online.


It's still bias, even if planted by his mother. The pictures they were using didn't accurately represent the situation.

When it was first reported in the press, it wasn't controversial until racists decided they JUST HAD to take up the position opposite Obama and Al Sharpton.

Kid gets shot, find a cute picture, run it. Unless Glenn Beck and the fine folks at Stormfront don't like it.

Kid gets shot, find a picture that supports your narrative even if it isn't fact, and run with it because it furthers your agenda. Yeah...I have a problem with that.

redmid17: Zimmerman's actions don't reach the legal threshold for stalking in Florida

I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not talking about the law. I can only speak to my personal feelings on the subject.

If some stranger was following me around my neighborhood, and then confronted me, armed? I would fear for my life, and I would feel justified in using deadly force to eliminate the threat of the armed stranger who has been following me at night for no reason.

Phinn: twernt: Phinn: Mavent: Hey everybody, remember when Conservatives were so outraged over "liberal media bias" that they decided the best way to combat the race-card playing Left was by create a racist graphic denigrating a dead 17-year-old, using a photo that WASN'T EVEN HIM?

[taylormarsh.com image 429x320]

Stay classy, Republicans.

Yeah, that's probably not Trayvon Martin.

Here's a helpful graphic for you, sweety.

[i42.tinypic.com image 480x639]">

And your farking point is?

[i304.photobucket.com image 639x489]">

My point is irrelevant to the fact that a grown man followed and shot an unarmed teen and wasn't charged for it.

Phinn: twernt: Phinn: Mavent: Hey everybody, remember when Conservatives were so outraged over "liberal media bias" that they decided the best way to combat the race-card playing Left was by create a racist graphic denigrating a dead 17-year-old, using a photo that WASN'T EVEN HIM?

[taylormarsh.com image 429x320]

Stay classy, Republicans.

Yeah, that's probably not Trayvon Martin.

Here's a helpful graphic for you, sweety.

[i42.tinypic.com image 480x639]">

And your farking point is?

[i304.photobucket.com image 639x489]">

My point is relatively simple: In responding to complaints by muddle-headed Leftists about how unfair it is that someone made a graphic using a photo of a teenager giving the finger with both hands, which was later determined not to be Trayvon Martin, it was relatively easy to find another photo of Martin giving the finger with both hands.

I don't particularly care who makes what hand signs to cameras. I just think it's funny watching the parade of cognitive biases and psychological dysfunctions that Leftist media puppets display when they are confronted with reality.


Oh, so your point is a strawman and a red herring. Thanks for clearing it up.

BronyMedic: MoeSzyslak: protectyourlimbs: MoeSzyslak: dittybopper: protectyourlimbs: Also, if Trayvon did decide to jump the quick healing hero Zimmerman

What quick healing? Cops report that he was bleeding from the nose and the back of his head at 7:19 pm when they arrived, Zimmerman was then treated by the SFD paramedics on the scene, and it was at least half an hour before they got him back to the station. Plenty of time for the bleeding to stop.

Cutmen in boxing can get bleeding to stop in 30 seconds but somehow this is some sort of miracle.

That he was bleeding so bad Zimmerman's clothes had no evidence of blood and the EMTs didnt need to bandage anything??? I have seen them bandage scrapes...

but your right, Zimmerman probably had a few more "rounds" to go...

Well you've seen them bandage scrapes so I guess that settles that!

Please don't make me make you look like an idiot.

Because his anecdotal nonsense about seeing EMS bandage scrapes proves what?

redmid17: Yet, there is a law that allows you to stalk, harass, confront, and kill an innocent, unarmed person in their own neighborhood in Florida. That's a big farking deal.

That's amazing to me, we literally have completely opposite opinons on what's important about this story.

Zimmerman's actions don't reach the legal threshold for stalking in Florida

You think that really matters to those that want to see Zimmerman fry? None of the picture they've painted appears to be all that true.

Scerpes: And yes...I blame Sharpton/Jackson/the media.

I blame them for this entire fiasco.

I have no doubt, given what is known about the events, that Zimmerman went out that night looking to play police. Zimmerman's own history of anger management and DV issues, as well as his heavy handedness at his security and bouncer jobs, support that. I have a problem with anyone who does not have a badge and a law enforcement commission strapping on a firearm and going out looking for crime to stop. We are not a country of vigilantes. I believe that Zimmerman provoked the confrontation that occured, and that Zimmerman's actions directly resulted in the death of Trayvon.

I believe, at the very least, this is a case of manslaughter.

I do not believe, however, the facts are sufficient in this case to label this man a racist. There is too much FUD out there, and I'm waiting for the grand jury testimony and findings report to be released before I make that judgement.

Phinn: My point is relatively simple: In responding to complaints by muddle-headed Leftists about how unfair it is that someone made a graphic using a photo of a teenager giving the finger with both hands, which was later determined not to be Trayvon Martin, it was relatively easy to find another photo of Martin giving the finger with both hands.

I don't particularly care who makes what hand signs to cameras. I just think it's funny watching the parade of cognitive biases and psychological dysfunctions that Leftist media puppets display when they are confronted with reality.


You're right, it is a simple point. Very simple. Somone posts pictures of a little boy who is not Trayvon in an attempt to paint a narrative. "Leftists say, "Hey, thats not Trayvon". You say, "ZOMFG!!! Here is a REAL picture where he flipped the bird!"

And that means...nothing.

kingoomieiii: Scerpes: Kid gets shot, find a picture that supports your narrative even if it isn't fact, and run with it because it furthers your agenda. Yeah...I have a problem with that.

"Narrative"
One more time, this wasn't political until racists decided to get involved.

Yeah the Reverends AL and Jesse.

Scerpes: You're creating facts to justify your view of the situation. There's no evidence that Zimmerman harassed, or confronted Martin. There is evidence that Martin isn't completely innocent, and that he initiated the confrontation.

Forgive me for not accepting the word of the only party still alive after the confrontation as very convincing "evidence."

The media would be losing it's credibility over all of this .........if it had any

A lot of the people whining about this case are just anti-gun so you can take whatever they say with a grain of salt

Scerpes: twernt: The two pictures on the left were shown by all of the media outlets. Bias much?

It's not as if the second set of pictures justifies the shooting of that unarmed teen. Or has the 'stand your ground' law been renamed to 'follow and shoot in the back'?


Shot in the back? Check your facts.

My apologies. Instead of, 'Stand your ground', let's rename it, 'Create a situation where you feel threatened so you can then follow and shoot an unarmed teen dead.'

Does that work for you?

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: You seem pretty unstable dude, if you mean what you just posted. Just sayin

How do you figure? Seriously.

Scerpes: protectyourlimbs: That he was bleeding so bad Zimmerman's clothes had no evidence of blood and the EMTs didnt need to bandage anything??? I have seen them bandage scrapes...

but your right, Zimmerman probably had a few more "rounds" to go...


Doesn't really matter. If Martin was on top of Zimmerman and banged his head into the concrete once, and looked like he was going to do it again, Zimmerman could have been justified in pulling the trigger.

So it doesnt matter that evidence doesn't collaborate what Zimmerman or the police reported they saw, or even what they said after... but you think chasing Trayvon down with a loaded gun, getting into a scuffle and then killing the minor once you realized he was beating your ass constitutes as self defense...

MoeSzyslak: Because his anecdotal nonsense about seeing EMS bandage scrapes proves what?

BECAUSE IT IS STANDARD OF CARE TO CLEAN AND DRESS HEAD LACERATIONS ON NON-CRITICALLY ILL PATIENTS BEFORE DID NOT TRANSPORT - AGAINST MEDICIAL ADVICE-ing THEM.

There. Does that make it clear enough? There is too much of a liability risk from infection and scarring to not dress them and encourage them to go to the ER or their PCP for suturing and futher care. Paramedics in Florida do not suture or steri-strip/dermabond in the field - only in the ER with specialized training behind them.

In addition, the kind of laceration that Zimmerman is claimed to have suffered would bleed. A lot. Scalp wounds bleed like a waterfall due to their vascularity. There's no way that Zimmerman had a 2-3in laceration on the back of his head which did not leave blood on his clothing, ESPECIALLY when he is bald.

And people still trust the media.

Silly Jesus: Carth: Mavent: Silly Jesus: Stalked = Walked down a public sidewalk behind him

...and then killed him. Funny how you left that part out.

Now tell me, genius: what would have happened if Zimmerman would have simply minded his own goddamn business, like the 911 operator told him too?

In FL are you obligated to listen to 911 operators? If i saw a real crime in progress or someone in danger and 911 told me to stay out of it is it a crime to ignore them if you make the situation worst?

No, disregarding a dispatcher is completely different from disregarding a lawful order from law enforcement. Furthermore, you are much more aware of what is actually going on than they are because you are at the incident location and they are behind a computer somewhere miles away. Make the decision for yourself.

This line of discussion is irrelevant. Whether 911 operators call is legal or not doesn't matter, but what it does show is that Zimmerman was not in danger, and continued to pursue somebody he thought was a thief, he made an aggressive act by continueinng his pursuit. He had no legal obligation not to pursue, but he had no good reason to do so either, therefore in my mind, his actions provoked a confrontation, which negates his claim to self defense. But a jury should decide this, not the internet and not the police.

redmid17: I'm pretty sure both of them had sufficient grounds to reach the self-defense law threshold

I dunno, the guy who instigated the whole thing seems to have less of a case.

redmid17: I'm pretty sure both of them had sufficient grounds to reach the self-defense law threshold, but we don't really know how the few minutes in between the terminate GF phone call and the gun shot played out.

That's my whole problem with the way the law is written. We'll never know what went down in those few minutes because half of the people involved in that transaction are dead.

What's disturbing to me is that the law, as written, if anything provides incentive to kill the other person. Even if you are completely without merit to claim self-defense, when the other party is dead, there's never going to be enough evidence to convict you of anything.

BronyMedic: I believe, at the very least, this is a case of manslaughter.

This.

Archimedes' Principal: This shiat has reached SNL's 'Buckwheat Has Been Shot' level of lunacy.
/ There are no winners in this one.

TravisBickle62: A lot of the people whining about this case are just anti-gun so you can take whatever they say with a grain of salt

They might be anti-homicide but whatever...

kingoomieiii: Scerpes: Kid gets shot, find a picture that supports your narrative even if it isn't fact, and run with it because it furthers your agenda. Yeah...I have a problem with that.

"Narrative"
One more time, this wasn't political until racists decided to get involved.

If you mean Jackson and Sharpton, I agree.

BronyMedic: BECAUSE IT IS STANDARD OF CARE TO CLEAN AND DRESS HEAD LACERATIONS ON NON-CRITICALLY ILL PATIENTS BEFORE DID NOT TRANSPORT - AGAINST MEDICIAL ADVICE-ing THEM.

WTF does that even mean? Your grammar is terrible. "Before did not transport?" "against medical advice-ing them?" WTF????

MoeSzyslak: When this all started we were made to believe:

1. They didn't even conduct an investigation

According to the police report they were on scene for seven hours

2. They didn't even take him in for questioning

They did in fact handcuff and bring him in for several hours of questioning

3. They didn't even take his gun

His gun has been sitting in police evidence since the shooting

4. He was told not to follow him by the police

A dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that" to which he replied "okay" and no released evidence proves he continued to follow

5. He said "farking coons" on the 911 call

CNN makes it pretty clear he said "it's farking cold".

6. Zimmerman outweighs Trayvon be at least 100lbs so there's no way he would've needed a gun to defend himself from 140lbs Trayvon

Zimmerman is 5'9" and weighs 170 and Trayvon was 6' and weighed 160.

7. A video proves he had no injuries when he was brought in

(I thought he was never brought in?) An enhanced video clearly shows wounds on the back of his head

8. His father the judge must have got investigators to cover this up

His father was a Magistrate (doesn't even preside over trials, think justice of the peace) in Virginia before he retired years ago.

And anything else I might have forgot.

I find it amazing how many people will immediately get behind one of Reverend Al's causes and buy his narrative completely without being even the slightest bit skeptical.

Extremely accurate!! May I add..............................................

9. Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch guy in a gated (read as rich white1%ers) neighborhood.
The average price of a home in that neighborhood is $70k on the low end and $125 K on the high end. Ethnic demographic is 48% White. 28% Hispanic 20% Black 6% Asian/Other. Additionally, the neighborhood had recently been plagued by numerous burglaries.

BronyMedic: MoeSzyslak: Because his anecdotal nonsense about seeing EMS bandage scrapes proves what?

BECAUSE IT IS STANDARD OF CARE TO CLEAN AND DRESS HEAD LACERATIONS ON NON-CRITICALLY ILL PATIENTS BEFORE DID NOT TRANSPORT - AGAINST MEDICIAL ADVICE-ing THEM.

There. Does that make it clear enough? There is too much of a liability risk from infection and scarring to not dress them and encourage them to go to the ER or their PCP for suturing and futher care. Paramedics in Florida do not suture or steri-strip/dermabond in the field - only in the ER with specialized training behind them.

In addition, the kind of laceration that Zimmerman is claimed to have suffered would bleed. A lot. Scalp wounds bleed like a waterfall due to their vascularity. There's no way that Zimmerman had a 2-3in laceration on the back of his head which did not leave blood on his clothing, ESPECIALLY when he is bald.

Are you disputing he had an injury to the back of his head? If not then what difference does it make how bad it is if it still shows his head was slammed? Is there a law that says that your head has to be gashed to a specific point before you can defend yourself?

BronyMedic: MoeSzyslak: Because his anecdotal nonsense about seeing EMS bandage scrapes proves what?

BECAUSE IT IS STANDARD OF CARE TO CLEAN AND DRESS HEAD LACERATIONS ON NON-CRITICALLY ILL PATIENTS BEFORE DID NOT TRANSPORT - AGAINST MEDICIAL ADVICE-ing THEM.

There. Does that make it clear enough? There is too much of a liability risk from infection and scarring to not dress them and encourage them to go to the ER or their PCP for suturing and futher care. Paramedics in Florida do not suture or steri-strip/dermabond in the field - only in the ER with specialized training behind them.

In addition, the kind of laceration that Zimmerman is claimed to have suffered would bleed. A lot. Scalp wounds bleed like a waterfall due to their vascularity. There's no way that Zimmerman had a 2-3in laceration on the back of his head which did not leave blood on his clothing, ESPECIALLY when he is bald.

Ouch.

cryinoutloud: Archimedes' Principal: This shiat has reached SNL's 'Buckwheat Has Been Shot' level of lunacy.
/ There are no winners in this one.

[lh6.googleusercontent.com image 512x288]

Boy, those were the days, huh?

The Homer Tax: redmid17: I'm pretty sure both of them had sufficient grounds to reach the self-defense law threshold, but we don't really know how the few minutes in between the terminate GF phone call and the gun shot played out.

That's my whole problem with the way the law is written. We'll never know what went down in those few minutes because half of the people involved in that transaction are dead.

What's disturbing to me is that the law, as written, if anything provides incentive to kill the other person. Even if you are completely without merit to claim self-defense, when the other party is dead, there's never going to be enough evidence to convict you of anything.

Well, they can compare your story to evidence. If you are making up something it is likely your story will contradict itself or evidence. I don't think many people get away with outright murder by claiming self defense. The stand your ground law may have muddied this case a bit, but I still don't see that zimmerman has a complet self defense claim since his actions lead up to the confrontation. He didn't just stand his ground, he advanced.

protectyourlimbs: Doesn't really matter. If Martin was on top of Zimmerman and banged his head into the concrete once, and looked like he was going to do it again, Zimmerman could have been justified in pulling the trigger.

So it doesnt matter that evidence doesn't collaborate what Zimmerman or the police reported they saw, or even what they said after... but you think chasing Trayvon down with a loaded gun, getting into a scuffle and then killing the minor once you realized he was beating your ass constitutes as self defense...


I think you mean corroborate, and not collaborate, but what evidence contradicts what the police say they saw? Enhanced video clearly shows the cuts on the back of his head. His neighbor says he saw Zimmerman's bruised, swollen and bandaged nose. What evidence are you referring to?

And yes...under Florida law, everything I know right now points to self defense.

manimal2878: BronyMedic: I believe, at the very least, this is a case of manslaughter.

This.

no, it's a case of homicidal racism. don't you read the news?

manimal2878: This line of discussion is irrelevant. Whether 911 operators call is legal or not doesn't matter, but what it does show is that Zimmerman was not in danger, and continued to pursue somebody he thought was a thief, he made an aggressive act by continueinng his pursuit.

I've only got my EMD, not APCO, but as I understand it they're making a legitimate request for you not to get involved when they tell you to do so. I know they're legally liable for any action they tell you to undertake that you are not trained to do.

Zimmerman was not a LEO, so he was not trained OR authorized to undertake the actions he did leading up to the confrontation.

He decided he was going to be the Decider, and went vigilante. There are consequences to this in our society.

manimal2878: He had no legal obligation not to pursue, but he had no good reason to do so either, therefore in my mind, his actions provoked a confrontation, which negates his claim to self defense.

Exactly. He played police officer, and initiated the confrontation himself by following Trayvon and cornering him between houses. As I understand the stand your ground law, that in itsself eliminates it as a defense to the shooting.

BronyMedic: Scerpes: And yes...I blame Sharpton/Jackson/the media.

I blame them for this entire fiasco.

I have no doubt, given what is known about the events, that Zimmerman went out that night looking to play police. Zimmerman's own history of anger management and DV issues, as well as his heavy handedness at his security and bouncer jobs, support that. I have a problem with anyone who does not have a badge and a law enforcement commission strapping on a firearm and going out looking for crime to stop. We are not a country of vigilantes. I believe that Zimmerman provoked the confrontation that occured, and that Zimmerman's actions directly resulted in the death of Trayvon.

I believe, at the very least, this is a case of manslaughter.

I do not believe, however, the facts are sufficient in this case to label this man a racist. There is too much FUD out there, and I'm waiting for the grand jury testimony and findings report to be released before I make that judgement.

Without labeling him a racist, there will be no federal charges.

I don't agree with your assessment of manslaughter. Not here in Florida, anyway.

treesloth: protectyourlimbs: stop bleeding and clean up all the blood... right, gotcha... so your point is even know all the circumstantial evidence in the killing of an unarmed minor points to the fact Zimmerman should have been charged and booked, the circumstantial evidence that he was doing it in self defense is a-ok... okay then... .

I'm not sure that makes sense... So, all of the circumstantial evidence says he should have been charged except for the evidence that says he shouldn't? I may have misunderstood. I say that seriously, not sarcastically.

right, here I will feed you more. So you are pretending you did not get the irony. You are circumstantial evidence that is not backed up by anything to argue against circumstantial evidence that is backed up by not only video and audio but common sense.

The LEAD HOMICIDE INVESTIGATOR recommended within hours that Zimmerman BE CHARGED but they were instructed NOT to by the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger...

Udontknowme: 9. Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch guy in a gated (read as rich white1%ers) neighborhood.
The average price of a home in that neighborhood is $70k on the low end and $125 K on the high end. Ethnic demographic is 48% White. 28% Hispanic 20% Black 6% Asian/Other. Additionally, the neighborhood had recently been plagued by numerous burglaries.

The NY Times reported last week that the suspects in the burglaries were black.

TravisBickle62: A lot of the people whining about this case are just anti-gun so you can take whatever they say with a grain of salt

I'm very pro-gun, I still think zimmerman was in the wrong and doesn't have valid claim of self defense. I mostly say this because I am applying for my ccw and this case could basically be in the text book for what not to do if you are ccw holder.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The Homer Tax: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: You seem pretty unstable dude, if you mean what you just posted. Just sayin

How do you figure? Seriously.

Just to give you an example- I was visiting my grandpa one night, and I parked at the community center because I knew driveway was full, and I was walking across the lawn, and I was approached by two middle aged guys. One asked who I was visiting, and I said "Chuck Friedman over in the Palma Sola cul de sac, he's my granddad." They said "Ok, have a good night." Based on what you said, you would have felt threatened and attacked them. That seems really unstable and paranoid to me.

And unless you have evidence to suggest that Zimmerman's gun wasn't concealed, then its just silly to say "being approached by an armed man" like he was running at him with an AK at his side.

Or, how about, you're walking through your dad's neighborhood. You've only been here 3 days, and you don't know anyone except your family. You spot a guy keeping a close eye on you, even though you're just walking back home. The guy keeps following you, and he's talking on his phone. You're talking on your phone too, and your girlfriend sways you should try to run from that guy because holy shiat, that's freaky that he's following you so closely, but you decide not to. You think you lose him, but as you turn a corner you see him waiting for you. Without giving you his name or telling you he's with the local neighborhood watch, he demands to know what you're dong here. You don't know this guy, so you ask why is he following you? Then he shoves you and knocks the phone out of your hands. The rest is a blur but then you wake up in Heaven and there's Jesus.

king_nacho: Personally it sounds to me like both sides where at fault, both were concerned with their safety or the safety of the neighborhood, and as such were acting towards defending their self/community.

The difference between the sides, of course, being that Martin may have punched someone, whereas Zimmerman beyond any doubt shot and killed someone.

manimal2878: Silly Jesus: Carth: Mavent: Silly Jesus: Stalked = Walked down a public sidewalk behind him

...and then killed him. Funny how you left that part out.

Now tell me, genius: what would have happened if Zimmerman would have simply minded his own goddamn business, like the 911 operator told him too?

In FL are you obligated to listen to 911 operators? If i saw a real crime in progress or someone in danger and 911 told me to stay out of it is it a crime to ignore them if you make the situation worst?

No, disregarding a dispatcher is completely different from disregarding a lawful order from law enforcement. Furthermore, you are much more aware of what is actually going on than they are because you are at the incident location and they are behind a computer somewhere miles away. Make the decision for yourself.

This line of discussion is irrelevant. Whether 911 operators call is legal or not doesn't matter, but what it does show is that Zimmerman was not in danger, and continued to pursue somebody he thought was a thief, he made an aggressive act by continueinng his pursuit. He had no legal obligation not to pursue, but he had no good reason to do so either, therefore in my mind, his actions provoked a confrontation, which negates his claim to self defense. But a jury should decide this, not the internet and not the police.

"aggressive act by continueinng his pursuit"

Is that some sort of legal definition or just something you're saying?

BronyMedic: I have no doubt, given what is known about the events, that Zimmerman went out that night looking to play police. Zimmerman's own history of anger management and DV issues, as well as his heavy handedness at his security and bouncer jobs, support that.

That's like saying, "I have no doubt that Martin was out casing houses and attacked first. Martin's own history of suspensions from school, possession of stolen jewelry and attack on a bus driver, support that.

No proof of a crime being committed = no charges. Amazing how our legal system works, isn't it?

DROxINxTHExWIND: You're right, it is a simple point. Very simple. Somone posts pictures of a little boy who is not Trayvon in an attempt to paint a narrative. "Leftists say, "Hey, thats not Trayvon". You say, "ZOMFG!!! Here is a REAL picture where he flipped the bird!"

And that means...nothing.

Well, to be fair, I didn't say "ZOMFG!!!"

But, more importantly, you are leaving out the part that I found especially amusing -- the reaction that I predicted, which motivated me to post the replacement bird-flipping photo in the first place -- upon being shown that the complaint about the wrong photo being circulated was essentially meaningless, since a remarkable replacement was only a few clicks away, the media-puppets (predictably) reacted by trying to change the subject.

Upon being embarrassed, the meme changed to: "He flipped the bird so he deserved to die?!?!:!??!?11"

No. Martin flipped the bird, so the earlier mockery of the media and its meat-puppet brigade for using deceptive photos of the two men can continue unabated.

And, Martin did not deserve to die for flipping the bird. Martin deserved to die because, without justification, he attacked and bashed in the head of a man.