Phinn: serpent_sky: The fact that he chose to ignore the police dispatcher ...

Again, please cite the source for the rule that anyone is obligated to do what a 911 operator says.

Nobody is legally obligated to do so, but odds are pretty strong they know what they're doing, having been trained in these matters, so it's a good idea to listen to them regardless of the lack of obligation to do so.

A recent legal "expert" on CNN I believe, indicated that in this unique situation, both Martin and Zimmerman could legally claim "stand your ground". Both were doing something legal right up to the confrontation, which was also legal. Martin was legally allowed to be where he was, and Zimmerman was within his ask him why he was there. Both could easily think they were being confronted by someone intending to do them harm. Had the outcome been different, Martin could have had a good legal defense for his actions. This is not to say he would have been treated similarly by the police.

DROxINxTHExWIND: dittybopper: DROxINxTHExWIND: The original protesters in Sanford, Al Aharpton included, were only calling for an arrest of the suspect. The original issue was that the police department and the prosecutor were making decisions about Zimmerman's guilt or innocence that should have been dealt with in a court of law, after an arrest.

1. He *WAS* arrested. He was disarmed, cuffed, and hauled off to the station for hours of interrogation.

2. He wasn't formally *CHARGED* with a crime, because under Florida state law, they can't arrest him unless they have evidence that he didn't actually shoot in self-defense. If they charge him prematurely, Zimmerman could walk even if he is guilty.

1. Get out of here with that nonsense. He should have been arrested and "DETAINED UNTIL TRIAL". Is that better?

Actually, no. It presumes no possibility of bail, etc.

2. You presume taht they didn't have enough evidence to arrest him based on... the Sanford police telling you that. Lets not start stating shiat as fact when it is not.

You presume, absent any evidence whatsoever, that they do have enough to arrest him, based upon what you *WISH* Florida state law said.

Now, I had a fairly open mind when I first heard about this incident. In fact, my first thought was "Death by Mall Ninja". As events started to unfold, though, my mind has begun to change, because much of what Trayvon Martin's family and those calling for the arrest of Zimmerman have said has turned out to be either a lie, or a major distortion. The Martin narrative is just losing credibility by the day. Here is a partial list of issues:

1. The picture juxtaposition of an overweight and serious Zimmerman in orange clothing (generally associated with being in jail), with that of a smiling 12 year old Trayvon Martin, dressed in his football uniform. This presented a very distorted image of the relative size and ages of the two.

2. The claim that Zimmerman was bigger and heavier than Martin. This goes hand in hand with issue #1, implying that Zimmerman wouldn't need to use deadly force against Martin because he was "100 lbs heavier". In fact, Trayvon Martin was at least 3 inches *TALLER* than Zimmerman, and possibly as much as 5 or 6 inches taller.

3. The idea that Zimmerman had made 46 911 calls in a year. In fact, he made that number in the span of 8 years, and most weren't 911 calls, they were calls to the non-emergency number.

4. The claim that the police return Zimmerman's gun to him. The police confiscated his pistol immediately, and still have it in evidence.

5. Selective editing of the recorded 911 call to make it appear that Zimmerman is a racist.

6. The family claiming that Trayvon was suspended from school for 2 weeks for being in "an unauthorized area", when in fact he was suspended for drugs (specifically, having trace amounts of marijuana on school property).

Those are just the issues off the top of my head. There are more.

It seems like every time someone makes a claim that makes Zimmerman or the police investigating this incident, or Florida's laws on self-defense look bad, it gets shown to either false, or a major distortion of the truth. At some point, those making those claims begin to lose credibility. It's actually counter-productive, because now if they do come out with some damning piece of evidence against Zimmerman, a lot of people just won't believe it simply because they've been lied to so many times.

Apropos the headline, the fact that NBC is the one that selectively edited Zimmerman's call to make it sound like he is a racist makes me think that they are doing the same thing again, especially when CNN gets a different, and logical given the circumstances, explanation. NBC has zero credibility with me at this point. Zero. They lied before on this issue.

Does that make it clear? Do you need more examples of inconsistencies and/or distortions from the Martin side, or is 6 enough? 'Cause I got more.

Zimmerman never ment to kill the kid. It was an accident, and should be ruled as manslaughter. With the enhanced audio, we can know tell what happend.

If you listen closely, you can clearly hear:
"Funyun, Coke."

Dude was just going over his shopping list for Christ's sake. He had the munchies, and want some Funyuns and Coke. We've all been there. And quite frankly, can you think of a better food than Funyuns with an ice-cold coke when you're high?

Zimmerman was simply on his way to the store, when he saw Trayvon, who happened to be carrying skittles and ice tea. Well it was no Funyuns and Coke, but it would certianly do. Plus it would save him a walk down to the store. He obviously persued Trayvon, asking him if he'd let him 'nosh off his bag' at which point Trayvon probably became scared and attempted to fight off Zimerman, which Zimmerman percieved as a threat.


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Phinn: serpent_sky: The fact that he chose to ignore the police dispatcher ...

Again, please cite the source for the rule that anyone is obligated to do what a 911 operator says.

He certainly didn't have to do what the 911 operator said, however, the moment he got out of the car, he became an aggressor. The problem here is that stand your ground assumes one person is actually planning on doing something bad. In this case neither was the "bad guy". You had a kid who was being followed, most likely scared of they guy tailing him. And you had a man who thought this kid was up to no good.

The entire thing is just crap. In reality both were probably defending themselves, one just happened to bring a gun. So his is the story we'll hear.

tgregory: The media loves to spin and twist for a good story.

[i96.photobucket.com image 640x480]

I just though you'd like to know that that image originated at absolutely indefensible bastion of neo-nazism Stormfront.org.

Also, that's not the right kid.

Mavent: Occam's Nailfile: The only witness to see the incident said that Martin was beating the crap out of Zimmerman.

Tell me again how that fight ended. And how it would have ended had Zimmerman just left Trayvon the hell alone.

How would it have ended if Tayvon would have left Zimmermang alone and said "Im walking to my dads girlfriends house, right down here." Instead of attacking him?

Mavent: Occam's Nailfile: The only witness to see the incident said that Martin was beating the crap out of Zimmerman.

Tell me again how that fight ended. And how it would have ended had Zimmerman just left Trayvon the hell alone.

Recent break ins made him suspicious of all strangers. He was the organizer of the local neighborhood watch. He considered it his duty to follow the guy (child, student, teenager). He was well within his rights to do so, just as it was within Martin's rights to be there. Do you deny either was outside their rights right up until the confrontation?

jso2897: 9beers: Headso: 9beers: So if you think Zimmerman is innocent, you're a racist, right? you also call 911 over 50 times in a year so you don't think it is insane

ftfy

46 times in 8 years. I understand though, you obviously haven't taken even 5 minutes to leave the facts before forming an opinion.

Is that supposed to make it sound normal? I'm 61 years old, and that's about forty times more than I've called 911 in my entire life.

Are you the organizer of your local neighborhood watch as well?

Publikwerks: OMG! We're All Gonna Die!: I'm loving this. Keep jumping the gun lefties.

Pun intended?

I don't care balck white, whatever. A unarmed kid was shot by a guy with a gun. In Maine, you go to jail for that. Stand your ground is a stupid law that was destined to lead to this kind of situation.

Example: Where is Mr "Stand your Ground" now? Why isn't he "Standing his Ground" now? The police are trained to deal with this, and approach situations in a way to protect everyone involved. Zimmerman didn't have this training, or even the common sense not to play cop. But this law gave him enough slack to hang himself. Now his life is destroyed. Someone is gonna try and shoot him, and maybe his family. All because he wanted to play cop.

You'd be surprised at how similar Florida and Maine's self defense laws read.

Silly Jesus: [www.csmonitor.com image 600x400]

[angrywhitedude.com image 630x498]


The two pictures on the left were shown by all of the media outlets. Bias much?

Nothing to do with the topic, but I hate it when people say [blank] much. You sound like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and you're a grown-ass man.

Phinn: Even if that were true (that "it's a good idea to listen to them"), it's completely irrelevant that Zimmerman disregarded the dispatcher.

The only thing that matters is whether either man reasonably believed the other was an imminent threat of bodily harm before using force.

Following a person and asking him what he is doing is not an imminent threat of bodily harm.

Had he NOT followed the kid and approached him (who knows what was said?) nobody would be talking about this. There is a lot to be said for minding your own business and not getting involved in situations that could escalate to this level.

In public, I keep aware of my surroundings and try to not tangle with anyone because you never know what special kind of crazy they may or may not be, and why put yourself in harm's way? Anything that happened to Zimmerman was his own damned fault, and I don't care if he was assaulted or not -- he shouldn't have been in that situation to begin with.

Mavent: Occam's Nailfile: The only witness to see the incident said that Martin was beating the crap out of Zimmerman.

Tell me again how that fight ended. And how it would have ended had Zimmerman just left Trayvon the hell alone.

How did it begin?