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(The New York Times)   Not content having blown $600M botching paperwork for transportation and education funds, Chris Christie is now handing out to companies $352M to move from one town to another, $34M to create five jobs and $261M just for being a casino   (nytimes.com) divider line 80
    More: Dumbass, Chris Christie, funds, nabisco, Corporate Social Responsibility, Prudential Financial, transportation, town, subsidies  
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1426 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Apr 2012 at 12:03 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-05 10:12:59 AM
I'm going to ask this yet again, in light of even further evidence:

Why does anyone think Republicans are good at creating jobs or better at government spending? They spend just as much, except instead of actually helping people with the money they turn it into massive business handouts. How can you claim to support the free market and preferentially hand out money to one business? That's not a free market.

People need to understand this: Republicans are bad at spending, bad at the economy and bad at job creation. Really, they're only good at giving money away.
 
2012-04-05 10:18:57 AM
Some of this is par for the course when it comes to Jersey and NYC. Not to say it's good or the best way to spend money. It was great for Jersey when they got AT&T to move its HQ from the city to Basking Ridge. But it often doesn't pay off in the end.
 
2012-04-05 10:19:19 AM
 
2012-04-05 10:28:40 AM
Thank you Reverse Robin Hood.
 
2012-04-05 10:29:04 AM

GAT_00: I'm going to ask this yet again, in light of even further evidence:

Why does anyone think Republicans are good at creating jobs or better at government spending? They spend just as much, except instead of actually helping people with the money they turn it into massive business handouts. How can you claim to support the free market and preferentially hand out money to one business? That's not a free market.

People need to understand this: Republicans are bad at spending, bad at the economy and bad at job creation. Really, they're only good at giving money away.


And why would anyone thing Democrats...especially New Jersey Democrats...would be any better? Christie and Cory Booker notwithstanding, the state has a lot more work to do to bring in ethical leaders.

Neither party is much good at spending wisely. Andrew Cuomo is doing much the same as Christie in New York with business tax breaks, continuing the practices of both Democrats and the one Republican before him.

Businesses have northeastern states over a barrel thanks to the past four decades of mismanagement by those states. The breaks go to companies for an intrastate move because (like TFA says) the company is threatening to move out of state, and generally out of the region altogether. If I was running a big business in a state with a crappy tax environment, it's what I'd do too.

And waaaaaay down in paragraph 13 is

The Transit Hub program is a bipartisan initiative that has been revised three times since 2008 to make it easier for companies to qualify.

Meaning it was signed into existence by Jon Corzine (D-Goldman Sachs).

Which should have been a red flag to Christie to gut the thing altogether and offer an across-the-board business tax cut instead.

Targeted subsidies and tax breaks = corruption.
 
2012-04-05 10:30:30 AM

SlothB77: $34M to create five jobs

Good thing Democrats never spend frivolously like that (new window)

Or wasting taxpayer money on doomed companies (new window)


So, both sides are teh bad?

/However shall I vote?
 
2012-04-05 10:31:14 AM
Wow.

It didn't take long for this to eb all BOTH SIDES ARE BAD VOTE REPUBLICAN
 
2012-04-05 10:33:24 AM
You'll notice, Sloth, that Christie and his ilk are constantly campaigning that they are Job Creators and fiscally responsible. But these reports prove the exact opposite. Instead of discussing this obvious shortcoming, you've opted for a "both sides are bad" response. Well put, that's sure to win the hearts and minds of your opponents and dispel the rumor that Christie is a lying sack of shiat just like the rest of 'em.
 
2012-04-05 10:34:51 AM

Gulper Eel: The breaks go to companies for an intrastate move because (like TFA says) the company is threatening to move out of state


Prudential, the biggest welfare queen, "acknowledged that the jobs were not 'at risk' of leaving the state."
 
2012-04-05 10:37:59 AM

Elandriel: You'll notice, Sloth, that Christie and his ilk are constantly campaigning that they are Job Creators and fiscally responsible. But these reports prove the exact opposite. Instead of discussing this obvious shortcoming, you've opted for a "both sides are bad" response. Well put, that's sure to win the hearts and minds of your opponents and dispel the rumor that Christie is a lying sack of shiat just like the rest of 'em.


But you see, the Democrats exist therefore Christies financial irresponsibility and huge spending doesn't count.
 
2012-04-05 10:39:19 AM

Elandriel: But these reports prove the exact opposite.


No, they don't prove that New Jersey Democrats are the epitome of economic wonderfulness...it only proves that the corporate-welfare culture eventually infects even the supposed reformers.
 
2012-04-05 10:41:42 AM

Gulper Eel: Christie and Cory Booker notwithstanding, the state has a lot more work to do to bring in ethical leaders


Yeah, it was super ethical when Chris Christie used the power of his office as US Attorney to launch a purely political investigation of Bob Menendez months before an election so he wouldn't get fired by Alberto Gonzalez for not being Republican enough. (new window)
 
2012-04-05 10:44:28 AM

Wendy's Chili: Gulper Eel: The breaks go to companies for an intrastate move because (like TFA says) the company is threatening to move out of state

Prudential, the biggest welfare queen, "acknowledged that the jobs were not 'at risk' of leaving the state."


Well, yeah.

Like I said, businesses have New Jersey over a barrel - as long as these kind of tax-break programs exist, big business in particular can bring the drama when in reality they have no intention of going anywhere.

It's not even about the dollar amount...all voters hear is OMG JORBS BE LEAVING.

Programs like this are a strong argument for abandoning taxes and subsidies for businesses altogether. You want a level playing field? It doesn't get more level than that. Sink or swim.
 
2012-04-05 10:45:15 AM
He's trying to spend his way out of a recession? COMMUNIST!!1!

Surely his popularity with "conservatives" will plummet...surely
 
2012-04-05 10:46:00 AM

Wendy's Chili: Gulper Eel: The breaks go to companies for an intrastate move because (like TFA says) the company is threatening to move out of state

Prudential, the biggest welfare queen, "acknowledged that the jobs were not 'at risk' of leaving the state."


Of course not. That would cost too much. It's all a legal designation game.

To harken back to AT&T again, they only 'effectively' moved their HQ to Jersey for the tax incentives. HQ was technically still on Madison Ave.

I don't know what it's like now that SBC is the real company. But in the past, if you wanted to know where the real HQ, the real heart, of AT&T was you just had to look for Golden Boy.

blog.mysanantonio.com

Fun fact: When they finally moved Golden Boy from NYC to Basking Ridge, they had to file down his manhood. It was apparently too big for the tender sensitivities of Jersey suburbanites.
 
2012-04-05 10:52:04 AM

Gulper Eel: Wendy's Chili: Gulper Eel: The breaks go to companies for an intrastate move because (like TFA says) the company is threatening to move out of state

Prudential, the biggest welfare queen, "acknowledged that the jobs were not 'at risk' of leaving the state."

Well, yeah.

Like I said, businesses have New Jersey over a barrel - as long as these kind of tax-break programs exist, big business in particular can bring the drama when in reality they have no intention of going anywhere.

It's not even about the dollar amount...all voters hear is OMG JORBS BE LEAVING.

Programs like this are a strong argument for abandoning taxes and subsidies for businesses altogether. You want a level playing field? It doesn't get more level than that. Sink or swim.


Yeah, that would be awesome. Then we could fire even more teachers, police and firefighters. Hordes of uneducated criminals burning down buildings are great for business!
 
2012-04-05 11:08:23 AM

Wendy's Chili: Gulper Eel: Wendy's Chili: Gulper Eel: The breaks go to companies for an intrastate move because (like TFA says) the company is threatening to move out of state

Prudential, the biggest welfare queen, "acknowledged that the jobs were not 'at risk' of leaving the state."

Well, yeah.

Like I said, businesses have New Jersey over a barrel - as long as these kind of tax-break programs exist, big business in particular can bring the drama when in reality they have no intention of going anywhere.

It's not even about the dollar amount...all voters hear is OMG JORBS BE LEAVING.

Programs like this are a strong argument for abandoning taxes and subsidies for businesses altogether. You want a level playing field? It doesn't get more level than that. Sink or swim.

Yeah, that would be awesome. Then we could fire even more teachers, police and firefighters. Hordes of uneducated criminals burning down buildings are great for business!


Do you not think an atmosphere of zero business taxes (and thus zero business-tax compliance costs) would not be attractive to a business considering a move from the other 49 states?

New Jersey gets a lot more of its tax revenue from individuals than from business taxes. Tweak that individual tax rate a bit for the high earners as necessary to make up for whatever's lost in corporate tax revenue...which isn't necessarily that much seeing as the state's been tossing around so much in corporate welfare.
 
2012-04-05 11:18:34 AM

SlothB77: $34M to create five jobs

Good thing Democrats never spend frivolously like that (new window)

Or wasting taxpayer money on doomed companies (new window)


"Jimmy does it too!" is not a valid excuse when you get sent to the principal's office and it's not now. The side that wants to be seen as different from the other side, shouldn't do the same thing the other side does.
 
2012-04-05 11:26:16 AM

Wendy's Chili: Gulper Eel: Christie and Cory Booker notwithstanding, the state has a lot more work to do to bring in ethical leaders

Yeah, it was super ethical when Chris Christie used the power of his office as US Attorney to launch a purely political investigation of Bob Menendez months before an election so he wouldn't get fired by Alberto Gonzalez for not being Republican enough. (new window)


Yes that looks suspicious but I do not see the smoking gun. Menendez does have some shady dealings too even though nothing has ever stuck. Do your own googling.

I do not believe Christie has been a good governor for New Jersey. But I lived in the state during that time and I have to support his efforts as prosecutor. He did an excellent job of putting corrupt politicians in jail. Especially when the corruption probes at the state level wouldn't even try then turn around and give the governor a report that said they couldn't find anything. When the next week Christie's office would drop a couple dozen indictments. That state needs another prosecutor that is as effective as Christie was. The place is incredibly corrupt and its one of many reasons I left.
 
2012-04-05 11:29:12 AM

Gulper Eel: Do you not think an atmosphere of zero business taxes (and thus zero business-tax compliance costs) would not be attractive to a business considering a move from the other 49 states?

New Jersey gets a lot more of its tax revenue from individuals than from business taxes. Tweak that individual tax rate a bit for the high earners as necessary to make up for whatever's lost in corporate tax revenue...which isn't necessarily that much seeing as the state's been tossing around so much in corporate welfare.


What would stop people from moving to Delaware, Pennsylvania or New York and commuting to NJ for work? Just last year the conservative columnists were screaming about a flight of rich people from NJ because of high individual tax rates.

And what would stop the other states from eliminating their corporate taxes? Hotel heiresses see their tax bills slashed and those of us who work have to make up for it.

And double taxation is supposed to be the price you pay for shedding your liability.

I don't think a race to the bottom is the path to prosperity.
 
2012-04-05 11:37:39 AM

sammyk: Wendy's Chili: Gulper Eel: Christie and Cory Booker notwithstanding, the state has a lot more work to do to bring in ethical leaders

Yeah, it was super ethical when Chris Christie used the power of his office as US Attorney to launch a purely political investigation of Bob Menendez months before an election so he wouldn't get fired by Alberto Gonzalez for not being Republican enough. (new window)

Yes that looks suspicious but I do not see the smoking gun. Menendez does have some shady dealings too even though nothing has ever stuck. Do your own googling.

I do not believe Christie has been a good governor for New Jersey. But I lived in the state during that time and I have to support his efforts as prosecutor. He did an excellent job of putting corrupt politicians in jail. Especially when the corruption probes at the state level wouldn't even try then turn around and give the governor a report that said they couldn't find anything. When the next week Christie's office would drop a couple dozen indictments. That state needs another prosecutor that is as effective as Christie was. The place is incredibly corrupt and its one of many reasons I left.


Christie's effectiveness as a prosecutor makes the Menendez case that much more suspect. Christie always got his man, except when it was a federal-level politician in a tight election race shortly before news broke that the AG was pressuring US Attorneys to target Bush administration opponents.
 
2012-04-05 11:41:18 AM

Gulper Eel: And why would anyone thing Democrats...especially New Jersey Democrats...would be any better?


But they don't promise to be the fiscally responsible ones.

Who is worse, the ones who don't deliver on promises they didn't make, but still help people, or the ones who break promises they make, hand money out to companies, and then hurt the residents of the state?
 
2012-04-05 11:50:09 AM

Wendy's Chili: What would stop people from moving to Delaware, Pennsylvania or New York and commuting to NJ for work? Just last year the conservative columnists were screaming about a flight of rich people from NJ because of high individual tax rates.


And those columnists are factually incorrect. It may be the biggest businesses who can throw around threats of moving, but as for individuals it's the poorest who do the most moving around. Rich folks in Jersey don't move out of Bernardsville because they can get a better deal in Scranton or Newburgh.

And what would stop the other states from eliminating their corporate taxes? Hotel heiresses see their tax bills slashed and those of us who work have to make up for it.

You're already making up for it, with the price of businesses' tax bills factored into what you pay for their goods and services. Mainly it's those businesses' workers who take the brunt of their employer's tax bills, but what you pay to cover a business' corporate tax bill is not a negligent percentage. Hard-core Chamber of Commerce types will hype it as in the 20-30% range, but cooler heads figure it's in the 5% range - in other words, a hidden 5% sales tax on everything.

If I have to pay that, so be it - I'd just rather see it in my tax bill and not hidden.
 
2012-04-05 12:02:27 PM

GAT_00: But they don't promise to be the fiscally responsible ones.

Who is worse, the ones who don't deliver on promises they didn't make, but still help people


Stop right there.

Can you really support that assumption when it comes to a place like Newark or New Jersey? Can you support it for a place like New York?

New York throws shiatloads of money around, ostensibly aimed at helping the downtrodden. The state's Medicaid budget is $53 billion this year.

Comparison: now that New York has made some token gestures toward dealing with the explosion in Medicaid spending, its per-capita spending level is finally somewhat lower than that of California and Texas...combined.

New York spends tens of billions more on education.

If spending and high taxes meant anything, New York would be by far the smartest, healthiest state in the nation. The results of all that spending say otherwise.
 
2012-04-05 12:02:50 PM
FTFA: And it plans to give a total of $650 million in public financing for a twice-failed entertainment and retail complex in the Meadowlands.

Oh, for the love of all that is holy, let's just blow that thing up and pretend it never happened. I promise never to bring it up again. It's a goddamn embarrassment that that thing is just sitting there unoccupied. LEVEL IT!
 
2012-04-05 12:03:06 PM

Gulper Eel: with the price of businesses' tax bills factored into what you pay for their goods and services


Prices don't really work that way. Taxes on profits are not a business expense like labor or raw materials.

Gulper Eel: If I have to pay that, so be it - I'd just rather see it in my tax bill and not hidden


Even if your assertion about prices was correct, I'd rather the people who actually buy the products to be the ones who line the pockets of the producer's shareholders, not the residents of the state where the company happens to be incorporated. That's just me though.
 
2012-04-05 12:06:34 PM
Casinos have all you can eat buffets, Subby.
 
2012-04-05 12:06:50 PM

JerseyTim: Oh, for the love of all that is holy, let's just blow that thing up and pretend it never happened. I promise never to bring it up again. It's a goddamn embarrassment that that thing is just sitting there unoccupied. LEVEL IT!


How could something as beautiful as this fail

racked.com
 
2012-04-05 12:07:19 PM

GAT_00: I'm going to ask this yet again, in light of even further evidence:

Why does anyone think Republicans are good at creating jobs or better at government spending? They spend just as much, except instead of actually helping people with the money they turn it into massive business handouts. How can you claim to support the free market and preferentially hand out money to one business? That's not a free market.

People need to understand this: Republicans are bad at spending, bad at the economy and bad at job creation. Really, they're only good at giving money away.


It would be nice if you would include democrats in there too. It wouldn't make you sound so biased.
 
2012-04-05 12:08:19 PM

SlothB77: $34M to create five jobs

Good thing Democrats never spend frivolously like that (new window)

Or wasting taxpayer money on doomed companies (new window)


Party of Personal Responsibility fail.
 
2012-04-05 12:09:12 PM
How about you give that money to the middle class and poor instead and they can spend it on the companies you're trying to help out!
 
2012-04-05 12:10:08 PM

Gulper Eel: New York would be by far the smartest, healthiest state in the nation.


Couple of problems here.

One, NYC is expensive to live in. So saying salaries are higher there is more than a little obvious.

Two, Medicare is for the elderly so it wouldn't mean NY is the healthiest state overall. And California and Texas have gutted their budgets to the bone. Saying NY spends more on health care because they actually care is like saying it gets warmer outside because the sun rose today.
 
2012-04-05 12:10:09 PM

DozeNutz: It would be nice if you would include democrats in there too. It wouldn't make you sound so biased.


If only that could save you...
 
2012-04-05 12:11:34 PM

Gulper Eel: GAT_00: But they don't promise to be the fiscally responsible ones.

Who is worse, the ones who don't deliver on promises they didn't make, but still help people

Stop right there.

Can you really support that assumption when it comes to a place like Newark or New Jersey?


Up until that last few years, New Jersey had the highest median income and the largest percentage of high school graduates moving on to college. I'd say the Democrats had been decent stewards of the state.

They were knocked out of the top spot in income largely because of defense and intelligence contractors blowing up in Maryland, but it's Christie's cuts that threaten to knock them down in education rankings if they haven't already.
 
2012-04-05 12:13:30 PM

Wendy's Chili: that the

 
2012-04-05 12:14:13 PM
$261M just for being a casino

Someone made him an offer he couldn't refuse?
 
2012-04-05 12:14:15 PM

SlothB77: $34M to create five jobs

Good thing Democrats never spend frivolously like that (new window)

Or wasting taxpayer money on doomed companies (new window)


I've seen Dems condemn that. Let's see our Fark right-wingers and Independants™ condemn this. Go on, do it.
 
2012-04-05 12:14:46 PM
I'm sure the residents of NJ paying sky high property tax rates will be overjoyed to hear about this. If you had no problem cutting tax revenues to that extent, you could have cut it out of property taxes creating massive stimulus of spending cash in the hands of every homeowner in the state.
 
2012-04-05 12:15:04 PM

SlothB77: $34M to create five jobs

Good thing Democrats never spend frivolously like that (new window)

Or wasting taxpayer money on doomed companies (new window)


Also, most of that $ was in the form of tax breaks. But tax breaks create money, so its not really money spent, right, right??
 
2012-04-05 12:15:25 PM
What the fark difference does it make if a company builds their new offices in Jersey or New York? Unemployment is a national problem. All this does is create jobs in one state instead of the other and give politicians an opportunity to show off their knob-polishing skills. Hell, you could spin this as costing NY jobs.
 
2012-04-05 12:15:26 PM

Wendy's Chili: sammyk: Wendy's Chili: Gulper Eel: Christie and Cory Booker notwithstanding, the state has a lot more work to do to bring in ethical leaders

Yeah, it was super ethical when Chris Christie used the power of his office as US Attorney to launch a purely political investigation of Bob Menendez months before an election so he wouldn't get fired by Alberto Gonzalez for not being Republican enough. (new window)

Yes that looks suspicious but I do not see the smoking gun. Menendez does have some shady dealings too even though nothing has ever stuck. Do your own googling.

I do not believe Christie has been a good governor for New Jersey. But I lived in the state during that time and I have to support his efforts as prosecutor. He did an excellent job of putting corrupt politicians in jail. Especially when the corruption probes at the state level wouldn't even try then turn around and give the governor a report that said they couldn't find anything. When the next week Christie's office would drop a couple dozen indictments. That state needs another prosecutor that is as effective as Christie was. The place is incredibly corrupt and its one of many reasons I left.

Christie's effectiveness as a prosecutor makes the Menendez case that much more suspect. Christie always got his man, except when it was a federal-level politician in a tight election race shortly before news broke that the AG was pressuring US Attorneys to target Bush administration opponents.


Not getting a conviction doesn't mean a thing. Investigations come up empty all the time. The only thing that's fishy is that the investigation was made public in the first place. Mayors getting arrested was usually the first indication that Christie had been investigating anyone. It is still not unheard of fro investigations to be made public.
 
2012-04-05 12:15:44 PM

sweetmelissa31: JerseyTim: Oh, for the love of all that is holy, let's just blow that thing up and pretend it never happened. I promise never to bring it up again. It's a goddamn embarrassment that that thing is just sitting there unoccupied. LEVEL IT!

How could something as beautiful as this fail

[racked.com image 528x352]


the fark

Is that an indoor ski slope or something on the left?
 
2012-04-05 12:15:48 PM
This guy is a turbo douchebag, why does FOX News Channel love him so much?
 
2012-04-05 12:16:53 PM

Gulper Eel: If I was running a big business in a state with a crappy tax environment, it's what I'd do too.


How does getting hundreds of millions of dollars of public subsidies qualify as "a crappy tax environment"? Unless you mean, it's crappy for the public.
 
2012-04-05 12:16:57 PM

sweetmelissa31: JerseyTim: Oh, for the love of all that is holy, let's just blow that thing up and pretend it never happened. I promise never to bring it up again. It's a goddamn embarrassment that that thing is just sitting there unoccupied. LEVEL IT!

How could something as beautiful as this fail

[racked.com image 528x352]


Oh god

That's hideous

Like Chernobyl playground hideous
 
2012-04-05 12:17:36 PM
And this is one of the dumbos the GOP keeps mentioning as "gee, it would be real nice if he'd run for President", not to mention his name keeps coming up as a possible VP candidate. He sounds just like every other GOP politician; talk a good game, but his actions label him a hypocrite.
 
2012-04-05 12:18:50 PM

SlothB77: $34M to create five jobs

Good thing Democrats never spend frivolously like that (new window)


Go away troll.
 
2012-04-05 12:19:18 PM
Local Republicans and local Democrats are tackling local problems. You can be against a massive federal government yet still vote for Democrats at a local level while being ideologically consistent. Republicans at the federal level who are against federal spending are not the same as Republicans at the local level who should by all means believe in states' rights.
 
2012-04-05 12:19:25 PM

sweetmelissa31: How could something as beautiful as this fail


I'm still kinda bummed I haven't been able to go virtual mind-skiing or whatever the heck that ramp thing is.
 
2012-04-05 12:21:23 PM
All Christie can do is scream at little old school teachers like he's Tony Soprano.
 
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