genner: I never understood why people would want to board the plane first.
They're just going to sit there and wait for the important people to arrive.

Me neither however it never fails when they start boarding gold class members or whatever for any given flight a throng of boarding area 6ers crowd the entry to the jetway like they are giving out money or something. Stay the fark seated until your area is called you god damn animals, crowding around doesn't do anyone any good.

ph0rk: Does it embarrass you slightly when you receive such hero-worship?

Embarrass isn't quite the right word. It doesn't come up in my life very often. But it does creep me out when I see it. I knew a pretty wide range of people when I was in, and some of them were contemptible. There is a cultural trope that soldiers are all strong, virtuous, morally upstanding men and women with a strong sense of duty. When I see that, it makes me uncomfortable. It could be because when I hear it I realize that there is no way that that person has spent a significant amount of time in or around the military, or is engaging in a frightening degree of nostalgia.

That said, I DID take the chance to go through a faster line through immigration last time I returned to the US.

First, Bill Ayers is a Douche Nozzle.

Second, he's entitled to say whatever he wants.

Third, both Subby and the article take his words from their context. He wasn't bashing the military as much as attempting to elevate teachers and other public servants. Teachers do deserve respect, firefighters deserve respect, nurses deserve respect.

Fourth, we have only one class of citizen in this country. People who served in the military or are serving are not more deserving than those who did not. I signed my selective service when I turned 18 and the military ignored it. That's probably for the best because I am clumsy and half blind. I do get wrankled when the moron who had nothing better to do at 18 than join the service feels that they are more entitled, somehow more American than I am because they spent three years shooting at targets in Texas while I was getting through school and hustling to get a job. We respect you by paying you and giving you benefits.

Fifth, shut the hell up and let the soldiers board the plane first. They are quick and efficient and are more likely to have carry-ons.

Sixth, I am concerned that we are bordering on too much deference to military service in things utterly irrelevant to military service. This militarization of society is antithetical to our way of life and harms democracy and our meritocracy. There are some awfully stupid people who went through the military and giving them a leg up over someone who deserves it more on their merits is counterproductive.

AnubisMan: Me neither however it never fails when they start boarding gold class members or whatever for any given flight a throng of boarding area 6ers crowd the entry to the jetway like they are giving out money or something. Stay the fark seated until your area is called you god damn animals, crowding around doesn't do anyone any good

6ers?

festoon: Why do people get always get shiat when they criticize the creeping fascism in this country?

Check out #4 of the Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism (new window)

Bill Ayers is a hero. Except for brain-dead RW yahoos who have forgotten what America is supposed to represent.

The hammer and cycle represents the other counrty dummy,
I know, I know it all would have would have worked out swimmingly if it wasn't for Lenin,Stalin, Krushchev, Brezshnev, Andropv, Chernenko and Gorbachev messing the whole thing up!
Lets give it another chance shall we?

fireclown: That said, I DID take the chance to go through a faster line through immigration last time I returned to the US.

Oh, I don't blame you. I really couldn't give a flip about the airline thing, but the other forms of hero-worship are worrysome.

There is a very real chance of a pendulum swing in a few years, and that would be bad.

How is getting to board a plane first a perk anyways? All that means to me is that I'm stuck sitting on the plane longer than everybody else. I'd rather be the last person on the plane, having it start to pull away from the terminal the moment I'm in my seat.

Gwyrddu: Precision Boobery: ORLY?

That was before the recession hit, the military can be more picky now.

My heart swells with national pride to know that our ranks are now filled by those who are altruistic supermen who selflessly rush into danger especially for me desperate, hungry, and fearful of the future, with a reserve of the dregs of society who can keep that war machine a-rollin' if need be.

Also, different branches have different regulation, but at worst you are looking at 10% at most for the army and at best 1% for the Air Force and the other forces in-between in regards to GED's they accept, and most will try to drop that number as much as possible. Long story short, if you got in with a GED, likely you scored really high on the ASVAB or the military would have probably took someone else instead.

Leaving aside that "very rare" has now become "10%", you shouldn't use specific values without a reference, otherwise you could be accused of making shiat up (I'm not saying you are, but I won't just take those numbers on faith) And claiming that they "would have probably took someone else" doesn't really jibe with the lowering of their standards to begin with.

Kinda hard to fight a pointless conflict if no one shows up for it.

And at that point you are screwed because you have no national defense. That's like saying the solution to police violence is to have no police force. The responsibility has to hang with politicians and the voters who put them in office as to how the military gets used.

Except the people don't vote on military actions, they just vote some dong into office and kinda hope he doesn't make shiat up in order to justify fraudulent wars. If what the police force mostly does is put down food riots then maybe it's better not to have one. But I'm not saying we should completely disband the military, because national defense is important. It's national aggression I'm not so fond of. I guess as long as the economy makes potentially dying in the desert more feasible and attractive than finding a job at home, people will never be able to say to a recruiter, "I'll sign those papers and obey all orders if the president signs one saying we will enter combat only to defend our nation and our allies from attack or invasion"...which is a far more ludicrous scenario than the one in the link I just posted.

Maybe if Americans felt about teachers the way we're instructed to feel about soldiers, some of these kids wouldn't have to choose between poverty and military service. Or even if they did, they'd have the critical thinking abilities to recognize and opt out of the bullshiat the military is being used for.

While respect for teachers is a good idea, it isn't going to solve the dilemma between poverty and the military being one of the few ways out. If you do want to become a teacher though, the federal government will give you money (like 4 grand a year) that you don't have to pay back if you teach in poverty stricken areas, so there is some support there for people who want to be teachers.

You're probably right. I would hope respect for teachers would lead to a higher educational standard, but seeing as how the government all but orders us to respect the troops while sending them into combat with "the army you have, not the army you might want" really undermines that hope.

Gleeman: [rlv.zcache.com image 400x400]

Puerto Rico is amused by your shenanigans.

Dedmon: eyehate: I didn't sit things out, I actually served after high school.

After withstanding the grueling hours, the longing for home, the longing for friends and family. The long nights at sea on a flight deck with goggles that made it hard to see and a cranial that made it hard to hear and have situational awareness, this while aircraft turned and threatened to suck me into the intakes or spit me off the ship in their exhaust. After six month deployments where I had constant 12 hour shifts with no days off and very few days of liberty in port. After meeting people that would bend over backwards to help me out or run into a conflagration to pull me out. All of this knowing that death could be at every turn in quick order.

I will give uniformed military a chance to get on board a plane first.

What about firefighters, policemen, and (our own) mercenaries?

I was making hazard pay and working a gob of hours out at sea and averaged just under a dollar an hour. This was at the end of the first Gulf War. Hopefully the current pay scale is a little better,

I am not aware of public servants that have to live on a dollar an hour.

Free meals and a bed didn't exactly compensate for it either.

Gleeman: [rlv.zcache.com image 400x400]

Yeah it has already been said. Can you read?

Jake Havechek: JusticeandIndependence:
You're welcome.
For what? What'd you do?

He's being smug. He's pointing out that you have not THANKED him for his many years of service. He doesn't understand that we already "thank" him in the form of his cushy job and his early retirement and his health benefits and his education benefits and his endless perks. Lke almost all men and women in the military, he thinks that's not enough. He thinks you should worship him and thank him profusely.

He's accustomed to it. He expects it. When you don't, he says, "You're Welcome" anyway. Get it?

It's sad. He doesn't understand that there are people who do more for their country by threshing a field or fixing a pipe under a city street. He doesn't understand that we can be appreciative of what he does without this constant social pressure to exalt and worship authority. It's an "authoritarian" thing.

plewis: We respect you by paying you and giving you benefits.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA.

An E-1 earns $1491 per month, is on duty or on call 24 hours per day, 7 days per week, and lately, is often sent to some God-forsaken desert to get shot at.

fireclown: AnubisMan: Me neither however it never fails when they start boarding gold class members or whatever for any given flight a throng of boarding area 6ers crowd the entry to the jetway like they are giving out money or something. Stay the fark seated until your area is called you god damn animals, crowding around doesn't do anyone any good

6ers?

Boarding area 6, generally the last area invited to board the plane.

serial_crusher: BurnShrike: ph0rk: My sense is that they see everyone around them violating the 1x carryon and 1x (small) personal item rules and don't want to get on the plane last and have no room for their carryon and have it force-checked.

I've spent the last 10 minutes trying to find a good picture of Vader throwing boxes around at Luke to put along with the caption "What force-checking luggage might look like"

So just pretend that's what I did here.

[i43.tinypic.com image 320x180]

Ha!

ph0rk: potstiekam: It's because knowing this I still signed up and if people like me didn't then people like you would get a draft card in the mail. Your opinion might change drastically when you're forced into the armed forces or forced to flee the country. How many times in history have you seen people being drafted into teaching or nursing?

Yes, we would have exactly as many military engagements with a non-volunteer service.

I'd get continual deferments under the original draft rules as they existed around '72, anyway.

the Selective Service System remains in place as a contingency plan; men between the ages of 18 and 25 are required to register so that a draft can be readily resumed if needed. Hope your friends and family aren't between the ages of 18 and 25. I bet the people that were drafted for the Vietnam war thought it could never happen to them as well.

"No, no...it's alright guys, just stay there and finish your lunch. I got this one."

"You see, Mr Ayers, it's because of who we are, want what we have done, and all the sacrifices we have made that allow you the very freedom to question why we should be appreciated. Do you think a soldier would put up with that shiat in China or North Korea? No. He'd kindly smack you in the face with his rifle, rape your daughter, and shoot your donkey, and then ask that you treat him with more respect in the future. I am glad you can voice your opinion that you don't think we deserve the slightest shred of special treatment or respect, because it shows that everything we have worked for, everything we have fought for, all your freedoms of expression are still there for you."

"And quite frankly, we do like to know that all our hard work is appreciated. Even it is just something of such little significance as being allowed a couple of extra minutes to get on the plane and stow our gear, and get comfortable before the two lard-asses who will be sitting on either side of me, plop down, and both take up 1/4 of my seat each. The airlines arn't giving us blowjobs and poached salmon eggs, they are just letting us be among the first to board, which actualy doesn't add any time or inconvience on your part at all. So we kinda wonder why you feel the need to make a big deal out of it."

"Well, I have a flight to catch. I am heading back to a combat zone for my 4th deployement in 5 years, because someone has to do it, and it certianly isn't going to be you. And just maybe, in the future, if you could refrain from being such a farking douchbag, I'd appreciate it. Or maybe you'd rather I just bend you over and show you why they call me "Dick".

JusticeandIndependence: Jake Havechek: JusticeandIndependence:

You're welcome.

For what? What'd you do?

I helped this person have the freedom to spout whatever they choose without the government impeding their ability to.

Oh, so you're a circuit judge? A lobbyist for free speech?

6er - A person who possess a ticket that groups them into boarding area 6

potstiekam: the Selective Service System remains in place as a contingency plan; men between the ages of 18 and 25 are required to register so that a draft can be readily resumed if needed. Hope your friends and family aren't between the ages of 18 and 25. I bet the people that were drafted for the Vietnam war thought it could never happen to them as well.

If you actually think a draft is likely you need new information sources.

ph0rk: Gleeman: [rlv.zcache.com image 400x400]

Puerto Rico is amused by your shenanigans.

Yeah, because they only speak Spanish down there, right?

/step-mom is from PR
//says I speak Spanish (learned in college) wrong

skankboy: Gleeman: [rlv.zcache.com image 400x400]

Yeah it has already been said. Can you read?

Looked at thread: tl;dr

JusticeandIndependence: Jake Havechek: JusticeandIndependence:

You're welcome.

For what? What'd you do?

I helped this person have the freedom to spout whatever they choose without the government impeding their ability to.

How did you do that?

JusticeandIndependence: You have no idea what you are speaking about.

An area where you're an expert, apparently.


You're welcome.

cameroncrazy1984: MBK: GAT_00: He's got a point. Why do we say the military deserves special recognition yet teachers don't?

Because teachers don't have to travel thousands of miles from home, leaving friends and family behind, to fight in warzones and risking their lives because some old rich guys wanted to go to war.

So? They knew what they were getting into. They chose it. It's not like they were forced into the Army.

Since others mentioned teachers, I'll keep this in mind when teachers at shiatty schools biatch about having to buy some markers out of pocket.

...If you think this flag looks like bacon...THANK HORMEL!

namatad: CommieTaoist: Complaining about letting soldiers board first is idiotic but not as much as claiming to support them while putting them in harm's way for unjust purposes, paying them crap and cutting benefits every chance you get.

this this and this

why are we fighting wars half-assed?
why are we not drafting?
why dont our wars have clear objectives and goals before we start shooting?

we should draft and have no deferments.
none at all
you dont want to use a gun? no problem, kitchen duty.
you have religious problems with war? no problem. chapel duty.
we need grunts to clean as much as shoot.

/sigh

Get with the times. The military is overmanned and booting people out left and right at this point. Also, even during the height of the surge the military didn't want a bunch of people in uniform who didn't want to be there. It's counterproductive at best.

As FTFA, I don't care if airlines let uniformed military board first. Personally I've never done it once in over 10 years because I don't want to bring attention to myself. However if I order booze on the plane I'll show my military ID and often will get a freebie or 2 for 1 deal.

A history teacher of mine served 3 tours in Vietnam as a recon marine. He never expected any praise but when he got back and was asked if he served in Vietnam, a hippie girl spat in his face. Did he ignore it? Did he say something? Did he figure it was the political climate at the time?

No, he knocked her the f**k out.

Cool guy, great teacher.

Frank N Stein: cameroncrazy1984: MBK: GAT_00: He's got a point. Why do we say the military deserves special recognition yet teachers don't?

Because teachers don't have to travel thousands of miles from home, leaving friends and family behind, to fight in warzones and risking their lives because some old rich guys wanted to go to war.

So? They knew what they were getting into. They chose it. It's not like they were forced into the Army.

Since others mentioned teachers, I'll keep this in mind when teachers at shiatty schools biatch about having to buy some markers out of pocket.

So its entirely ok for soldiers to be expected to supply their own body armor then too, I guess?

I think the take-away should be it sucks in both cases, and maybe we should stop universally putting one on a pedestal of awesomeness while universally shiatting on the other.

(See also: first responders, law enforcement, the other critical parts of our infrastructure, yadda yadda).

potstiekam: I bet the people that were drafted for the Vietnam war thought it could never happen to them as well.

Because everybody who was drafted during the Vietnam war went to Vietnam.

SoCalSurfer: A history teacher of mine served 3 tours in Vietnam as a recon marine. He never expected any praise but when he got back and was asked if he served in Vietnam, a hippie girl spat in his face. Did he ignore it? Did he say something? Did he figure it was the political climate at the time?

That girl must have spat in the face of every marine who came home from vietnam. I think she is the mom of the snowboarder who has cut off EVERY SKIER ON EARTH. They are a very active family. Troublesome, but a great work ethic.

fireclown: SoCalSurfer: A history teacher of mine served 3 tours in Vietnam as a recon marine. He never expected any praise but when he got back and was asked if he served in Vietnam, a hippie girl spat in his face. Did he ignore it? Did he say something? Did he figure it was the political climate at the time?

That girl must have spat in the face of every marine who came home from vietnam. I think she is the mom of the snowboarder who has cut off EVERY SKIER ON EARTH. They are a very active family. Troublesome, but a great work ethic.

I wasn't making a broad statement, just telling an amusing anecdote

fireclown: SoCalSurfer: A history teacher of mine served 3 tours in Vietnam as a recon marine. He never expected any praise but when he got back and was asked if he served in Vietnam, a hippie girl spat in his face. Did he ignore it? Did he say something? Did he figure it was the political climate at the time?

That girl must have spat in the face of every marine who came home from vietnam. I think she is the mom of the snowboarder who has cut off EVERY SKIER ON EARTH. They are a very active family. Troublesome, but a great work ethic.

I bet they drive all the Priuses (Prii?) that cut off/merge into every motorcyclist in America.

Those bastards.

If you go on strike, is that ok? Then you have your paycheck and that's that. Or would it be a dereliction of duty? (Military, firefighters, doctors, nurses, etc). Then you are serving and deserve some respect for it. Especially military who are risking their lives to seve their country.

It's about Respect. Something so foreign and lacking in Mr Ayers and his wife's world they can't grasp the fundmental concept of it.

And these are the people they mentored our President. They parade down wall street celebrating the virtues of Rev Wright, deamonizing Captilism, and dream of a socilism.

Splinshints: tkwasny: In case something is wrong so they can take that first bullet for people like you.

I love things like this. So you think respecting the military means treating them like brainless meat shields? You'd think somebody in the military wouldn't say something so stupid.

The military are always the first in, not as a sacrifice, but as protectors. Someone that has the training to do something about a bad guy. So are the USSS for the president. It's not respect, but protocol to protect the public with the right resources.

So, just to get this straight, in DERPER world the following reactions are perfectly reasonable and not inconsistent:

A) Action: An unarmed kid gets shot AND FARKING KILLED and no one is held accountable through a combination of poorly understood laws and poorly executed law enforcement.
Reaction: Everybody should shut up about it.

B) Action: Somebody has some perceived butthurt about soldiers getting on planes or implied racism in advertising.
Reaction: OMG NO WAYS This is the end of OUR COUNTRY! Why are LIBTARDS destroying my freedom to have my jerkoff opinions and worldview go UNQUESTIONED!!!11!!!!

ph0rk: potstiekam: the Selective Service System remains in place as a contingency plan; men between the ages of 18 and 25 are required to register so that a draft can be readily resumed if needed. Hope your friends and family aren't between the ages of 18 and 25. I bet the people that were drafted for the Vietnam war thought it could never happen to them as well.

If you actually think a draft is likely you need new information sources.

and if you think war isn't possible in the future I guess we don't need any military nor a draft. You have saved us all again internet hero, you may board.

i only fly home in uniform when my parents are picking me up. As for the poster who said, "20 years, full pay benefits".....your very very lucky if you get that. Most guys I know have gotten to 19 and got the boot due to review boards, aka boot them so we don't have to pay them at 20 years. Hell I am lucky to have just reenlisted, because that is extremely picky right now depending on your rate/mos.
/ET2 (EXW)
//....what's a ship? never been on one

OK, so what we need is another level of airport security.

The first level is to make sure that noone gets on board with a weapon; yeah, fine, we all know this one, moving on.

The second level uses a special machine that gauges the worth of the person that steps through on a scale of Asshole to Hero. We've got one of those, right?

So: active military, teachers, firefighters, nurses, working mothers, and oncologists get on first.

Then doctors, scientists, technical support agents, video game designers, garbage men (and women), and people that work in retail and still manage to smile at the idiots they deal with in a day go next.

And all down the line, until you get to deadbeat fathers, drunken uncles, baby spawners on Welfare, the entire Westboro Baptist Church, pedophiles, drug users, and cast members from The Jersey Shore. But I might be repeating myself on those last few.

We already did this. First we had spots for the handicapped, which I'm sure we are OK with. But now there's spots close by for pregnant women, a few more for moms with kids, etc...

ARagingRebel: Most guys I know have gotten to 19 and got the boot due to review boards, aka boot them so we don't have to pay them at 20 years.

Oh bullshiat dude. While it's obviously possible that somebody could be discharged just short of their 20, it's not commonplace and there is no such thing as a review board for soldiers unless it involves medical issues or combat injuries. Stop with the outright lies.

Epicedion: I think that the point wasn't specifically about uniformed military boarding planes early. Rather, I think it was more about how culturally we're pretty well required to pay social deference to the military. Harping on the airplane seating is missing the argument for the details.

DING DING DING DING. I said something similar much farther up in the thread but people either didn't (or can't) read it or didn't (or can't) understand it.

This is not about waiting to board a plane.

And for those hollering "It's called RESPECT," I'll explain it to you as simply as I can. Respect is not given, it is earned, and successfully donning a uniform is not automatically worthy of respect.



Do you respect this guy? Would you let him on the plane first? Probably, so he won't shoot you in the back. But a soldier is not automatically worthy of more respect than you would give anyone else you didn't know just because he's wearing something that other people did selfless, courageous things in. Nor does he deserve disrespect because other people did horrible, disgusting things in it.

So let him get on the plane first. As some have pointed out, he'll probably be more efficient, and who wants to spend more time on the plane anyway? 'Tis a silly place.

And that's not the point.