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(Huffington Post)   Some in Congress, including Peter King (R-NY), want to take away the Constitutional rights of people who have not been arrested, charged, or convicted of any crimes. He has bi-partisan support   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 223
    More: Scary, bipartisan support, constitutional rights  
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9977 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Apr 2012 at 9:33 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-01 06:58:57 PM

NewportBarGuy: Do we even know the criteria for being placed on the "You Hate America" list? F*cking retarded, arbitrary nonsense.


This. I don't think these people have thought it all the way through. Imagine if the tea party was suddenly declared a terrorist organization... Or even some of the "patriot militias" and other right wing groups that tend to have a bit more of a conservative pro-gun outlook. I am willing to bet that as soon as they start being denied firearms because they are on the watch list, their support will evaporate.

In the US, terrorism is not just a foreign concept. We have plenty of domestic terror groups, and they tend to be the type of people that regularly exercise their second amendment right to acquire firearms.
 
2012-04-01 07:19:32 PM
But what if I'm a member of the Ku Klux Klan? Would this law affect me?
 
2012-04-01 07:46:38 PM

Lunaville: But what if I'm a member of the Ku Klux Klan? Would this law affect me?


You could just buy stolen or imported guns, like other criminals do.

/gun control is as much a waste of time as prohibition or the drug war ever were.
 
2012-04-01 07:50:53 PM

Britney Spear's Speculum: Yeah but it's Obama that really wants to take your guns.


This is all part of his evil plan. Get this passed, and then the day after he starts his second term, BOOM - he puts EVERYONE in the country on the Watch List. Deal with it Republican's, Obama just used a law you voted for to grab all the guns.

/Pretty sure there's something in the deal they passed for the Debt Ceiling that will let him put everyone in FEMA camps too.
//I only use high-grade Reynolds Wrap for my tinfoil hats.
 
2012-04-01 08:02:35 PM

SpeshilEdjukashin: The problem with the terror watchlist is 1) most people who get on it who aren't terrorists 2) it's almost impossible to get off it.

So no, people on it shouldn't lose the right to do anything, including buy a gun.


This.

The vaunted FBI Watch List has multiple people on it named "Fred Smith" or somesuch, in some cases they have been five-year old children or elderly rabbis. These folks have been kept off planes and prevented from leaving the country solely because they have the same name as someone who IS a legitimate person of interest. DHS's response to these people has been a Little Orphan Annie stare and a "Because terrorism" when asked why they can't get their names taken off the list.

So unless or until the Watch List only has actual terrorists on it, there is no way this is a good law.
 
2012-04-01 09:59:13 PM

way south: You could just buy stolen or imported guns, like other criminals do.


Or get them from the ATF, like the Metscan cartels.
 
2012-04-01 10:25:33 PM

qorkfiend: Due process is entirely separate from government accountability...


They are two sides of the same firewall that's supposed to protect people from being ruled by arbitrary authority.
 
2012-04-01 10:37:51 PM

Fark It: feckingmorons: Fark It: feckingmorons: TSD: Fark It: feckingmorons:

I think people are annoyed because it appears as if you're dismissing an alarming bit of legislation outright because of the "gun" in "gun rights," and not the "rights" part, or the part about our government's out of control, illegal terrorist watch list.


THIS.

Guns rights or not, this is farking illegal and needs to stop now.
 
2012-04-01 10:59:31 PM
"By terrorists, I obviously mean brown people, not good white Christian skinhead birther sovereign folk who love their country."
 
2012-04-01 11:34:00 PM

PsiChick: Fark It: feckingmorons: Fark It: feckingmorons: TSD: Fark It: feckingmorons:

I think people are annoyed because it appears as if you're dismissing an alarming bit of legislation outright because of the "gun" in "gun rights," and not the "rights" part, or the part about our government's out of control, illegal terrorist watch list.

THIS.

Guns rights or not, this is farking illegal and needs to stop now.



Yes, because every sane non-felon wants to buy guns, guns, guns.
 
2012-04-01 11:50:53 PM
"Take away" your constitutional rights? Subby, you're an idiot. We don't have any rights... they were taken away a long time ago.
 
2012-04-02 12:37:33 AM

feckingmorons: PsiChick: Fark It: feckingmorons: Fark It: feckingmorons: TSD: Fark It: feckingmorons:

I think people are annoyed because it appears as if you're dismissing an alarming bit of legislation outright because of the "gun" in "gun rights," and not the "rights" part, or the part about our government's out of control, illegal terrorist watch list.

THIS.

Guns rights or not, this is farking illegal and needs to stop now.


Yes, because every sane non-felon wants to buy guns, guns, guns.


I want to buy ammo ammo ammo and then profit profit profit.
 
2012-04-02 12:51:04 AM
Typical "missing the obvious" gun control legislation.

Make it illegal for someone to legally buy a gun and they'll find a way to buy it illegally. Gun laws won't stop gun-related crime. Well, maybe a little bit (like Loughner) but people like him would find another way to go on a killing spree.

/Checked my mailbox today and found my shiny new FFL in there from the kind folks at the BATFE.
//Wasn't home to check it Saturday
 
2012-04-02 01:06:49 AM

KidneyStone: Make it illegal for someone to legally buy a gun and they'll find a way to buy it illegally. Gun laws won't stop gun-related crime.


Actually, tightening background checks will bring down crime. You'd have to be pretty hardcore to want to get something if you were turned down in the first place. If you know how to get some cool weapon to use for target shooting, fine, be my guest. Just keep in mind that the law was written for individuals and groups trying to bring this government down.

Yes, I know that some think bringing it down is a swell idea. Spare me.
 
2012-04-02 01:23:57 AM

whidbey: Actually, tightening background checks will bring down crime


The vast majority of gun-related crime is done with illegally obtained weapons. How do any laws help with that?

Hell, look at Loughner. He legally had the gun but murder is a pretty big crime to commit and he had no troubles with that one.

Gun laws don't do shiat. Except make it harder for law abiding citizens to buy a firearm, that is.
 
2012-04-02 02:07:28 AM

KidneyStone: Gun laws don't do shiat. Except make it harder for law abiding citizens to buy a firearm, that is.


I fail to see how it would affect either of us.
 
2012-04-02 02:27:06 AM
i44.tinypic.com

Owning registered firearms is for suckers.
 
2012-04-02 08:35:09 AM
I have a problem with the terror watch list being used for purposes other than the FBI interdepartmental memo.
It's a "watch list", not a "known terrorist list". If any of those people on the list were "known terrorists", they'd be in prison. More likely from my personal experience, the watch list enrollee shares a name with someone overseas, or less.
I've seen people placed on the No-Fly list for what appears to be NO REASON, Not that we can even appeal our placement on such lists. You can't find out if you're on the list, you can't appeal or petition the government to remove you from the list, can't get a trial to determine whether you should be on the list, and can't verify that you are ever removed from the list. The list should be used for NOTHING other than surveillance by those who compile such lists, and even then, in a way compliant with the Fourth amendment.
It's a free country, my ass. We got attacked by nineteen religious freaks and a bunch of ignoramuses in tents and mud houses, and instead of defeating them, we defeated ourselves. We curtailed our freedoms, we engaged in unsanctioned attacks all over the world, destroying valuable alliances and utterly ignoring the principles of common law, and now that nobody loves us, we have to curtail our own liberties even further to feel safe. We deserve this until we decide to stop doing it. Until we stop voting for people who promise us safety. You cannot be safe from terrorists. You cannot establish a pre-crime unit to find those who might want to harm you and round them up outside the country. Terrorists blend into the population, perform an attack, and blend right back in. They can make the supplies for their attacks out of household ingredients that you can't possibly regulate. There are an infinite number of opportunities for them to harm you that you cannot prevent. They are not deterred by the threat of imprisonment or death. All you can do is to realize that they are a tiny problem compared to an omnipresent, oppressive government that doesn't live in mud huts and has trillions of dollars and the firm belief that they are doing the right thing even when it's harmful to you.
 
2012-04-02 12:04:18 PM
A 2011 report by the Government Accounting Office found that from February 2004 to February 2010, "individuals on the terrorist watch list were involved in firearm or explosives background checks 1,228 times; 1,119 (about 91 percent) of these transactions were allowed to proceed because no prohibiting information was found."

Hrmm... I follow the news pretty closely, so I'd like to think that I would have noticed 1,119 terrorist attacks happening this past decade, but for some reason I just can't recall them...
 
2012-04-02 04:38:30 PM

Gyrfalcon: feckingmorons: PsiChick: Fark It: feckingmorons: Fark It: feckingmorons: TSD: Fark It: feckingmorons:

I think people are annoyed because it appears as if you're dismissing an alarming bit of legislation outright because of the "gun" in "gun rights," and not the "rights" part, or the part about our government's out of control, illegal terrorist watch list.

THIS.

Guns rights or not, this is farking illegal and needs to stop now.


Yes, because every sane non-felon wants to buy guns, guns, guns.

I want to buy ammo ammo ammo and then profit profit profit.


Great, great, great!

Guns, guns, guns.
 
2012-04-02 04:51:35 PM

feckingmorons: PsiChick: Fark It: feckingmorons: Fark It: feckingmorons: TSD: Fark It: feckingmorons:

I think people are annoyed because it appears as if you're dismissing an alarming bit of legislation outright because of the "gun" in "gun rights," and not the "rights" part, or the part about our government's out of control, illegal terrorist watch list.

THIS.

Guns rights or not, this is farking illegal and needs to stop now.


Yes, because every sane non-felon wants to buy guns, guns, guns.


I certainly agree, but the fact remains that if we have a right, we need a damn good reason for taking it away. Mental health problems or convict record, yeah, those work. The terrorist list is known as bullshiat and not in any way, shape, or form a good reason.
 
2012-04-03 09:31:47 AM

Ringshadow: My brother is very loudly pro-gun and he's a Michigan Open Carry activist.

And he hates the NRA with a fiery passionate vengeance because they're a lobbying organization, and they use fear to drive membership like anything else. The problem is, using fear just drives up the cost of ammunition and makes it hard for my brother to go to the range.

/it IS quite amusing to watch someone open carrying a 911 tear apart NRA junkmail
//while foaming at the mouth


Wow, he must be strong. You sure it's not 'roid rage?

911car.net
 
2012-04-03 12:17:50 PM

SpeshilEdjukashin: The problem with the terror watchlist is 1) most people who get on it who aren't terrorists 2) it's almost impossible to get off it.

So no, people on it shouldn't lose the right to do anything, including buy a gun.


Winnar.
 
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