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(CNN)   CNN: "There is no student loan debt crisis." Next up: What's this stupid theory about the sky being blue everyone keeps going on about?   (money.cnn.com) divider line 375
    More: Asinine, CNN, debt crisis, for-profit colleges, student debt, student loans, University School, mortgage crisis, Mark Kantrowitz  
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8393 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Mar 2012 at 10:04 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-31 11:03:38 PM

herrDrFarkenstein: Uh, lots of states have renters deductions.


But no federal, right?

I just wanna make sure of the pecking order.
 
2012-03-31 11:03:41 PM

dkimball: Here's an idea..do better in high school to get scholarships, finish early, don't pick an expensive college, have a long-term plan for paying off the loan...etc

Rich husbands/wives and the lottery are not valid alternatives.


So, be 35 when you graduate high school, is what you're saying. Or be wealthy enough to have a personal financial assistant who can tell you this shiat? Because I never met an 18 year old who could figure this out.
 
2012-03-31 11:04:00 PM

herrDrFarkenstein: The_Gallant_Gallstone: Little.Alex: Why should some auto mechanic have to chip in to make his Boss wealthier?

Excellent point... poor people should not have to finance the success of the more well-to-do.

Hold on... let me take these here mortgage interest and real estate tax statements and put them on this here Schedule A, Itemized Deductions of my federal tax return... oh wait, I rent, I can't deduct anything even remotely resembling housing costs.

Uh, lots of states have renters deductions.


Name them.
 
2012-03-31 11:04:25 PM

rebelyell2006: tenpoundsofcheese: 90% of people have less than $45k in debt.

How many of those people had their parents pay for housing, food and other costs outside of tuition?


what does it matter? 4%, 40%, 90%, who cares? The point is the amount of debt and that only 10% had more than 45k.
 
2012-03-31 11:04:31 PM

Fireproof: 9beers: Take your ass to a community college or other smaller schools and you won't be so farking far in debt. You could also get off your ass and get a job while in school rather than spending all your free time partying.

I worked through much of college and still have a shaitton of debt, so I am really getting a kick out of your reply.


I worked too, am in debt, but still found time party, chase puss, have fun and get good grades.
/miss those carefree days
 
2012-03-31 11:04:38 PM

taxandspend: If you want a good example on why government shouldn't be involved in education, just point here: [www.texasfishingonline.net image 400x378]


I think Texas is a better example of why evangelicals shouldn't be involved in education.
 
2012-03-31 11:04:39 PM

dkimball: Here's an idea..do better in high school to get scholarships, finish early, don't pick an expensive college, have a long-term plan for paying off the loan...etc

Rich husbands/wives and the lottery are not valid alternatives.



You severely overestimate the future-thinking skills of an average middle-school kid as well as assuming they're all the same. Even if it was your priceless advice guaranteed anything, they'd more than likely give you the finger and go back to playing video games.
 
2012-03-31 11:07:22 PM
I find it really quite interesting reading the comments on here, given the events that have been happening in Quebec over the last few weeks.

Our government recently announced that it's going to break a long-standing tuition freeze that sees students currently paying about $2000/year to go to university. As I mentioned in my last post, the increase is supposed to be $325/year over 5 years, for a total of $1625 - bringing total yearly tuition up to $4000. Fees and stuff generally add another $1000 on top of this.

This has set off an absolute uproar among the students, and has seen a near-constant stream of protests over several weeks - far and away the largest being the one on March 22, which organizers say topped 200,000 people (Montreal Police estimated the crowd to be "a little bit" less than that.)

Meanwhile, Quebecers are the most heavily-taxed and indebted people in all of North America, and even with these tuition increases, the total cost to go to university will still be the cheapest on the continent - needless to say, the students don't seem to be finding much sympathy among the general population.

There isn't really much of a point to this except to say that the difference in the way people think between the two areas (Quebec and the States) is really quite impressive.
 
2012-03-31 11:07:25 PM

Little.Alex: The_Gallant_Gallstone: Little.Alex: This whole thread is a great example of why the government shouldn't be involved in education.

Government shouln't play any role in education?

No public schools?

I can't support you on that... it would give the Roman Catholic Church another shot at dominating education and we can't have that.


What about voucher programs for k-12?

And as far as college goes; there is not quick solution. It would have to be unraveled over years, just as slowly as pandering politicians created the problem. Institutions are now dependent on those promises, and you can't jerk the rug out from under them without disaster.

Suppose instead of pumping more money into student loans, the Feds said, "No federal aid goes to universities who fail to cut tuition by 1% next year"? What if we did that for 20 years?

Government; you've done enough harm here. Back out slowly.


Bullshiat. Public education is the only answer for a broadly and completely educated population. Education is infrastructure in the 21st century, just like farking roads, building codes, and defense. If you think there's a free market solution you're deluded. Send your kids to some farking Sylvan center for chumps, or to a charter school that is actually burning tax dollars and you just ignore reality.
 
2012-03-31 11:08:42 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: Little.Alex: Why should some auto mechanic have to chip in to make his Boss wealthier?

Excellent point... poor people should not have to finance the success of the more well-to-do.

Hold on... let me take these here mortgage interest and real estate tax statements and put them on this here Schedule A, Itemized Deductions of my federal tax return... oh wait, I rent, I can't deduct anything even remotely resembling housing costs.



Yeah. If you really study it; it's very difficult to stimulate a market without a lot of unintended consequences. Subsidies cause industry specific inflation and over investment. "Over Investment" in education is really what this thread is about.

And as an additional kick in the ass; many employers now expect a college degree for work that doesn't really require it. So kids are trapped. That's why they're Generation Screwed. A good job often requires a degree - that is wildly over priced. Basically, you have to buy a house and give it away so some politician could pretend he was being generous. But he was being generous with your money in a very indirect way.
 
2012-03-31 11:10:00 PM

titwrench: herrDrFarkenstein: The_Gallant_Gallstone: Little.Alex: Why should some auto mechanic have to chip in to make his Boss wealthier?

Excellent point... poor people should not have to finance the success of the more well-to-do.

Hold on... let me take these here mortgage interest and real estate tax statements and put them on this here Schedule A, Itemized Deductions of my federal tax return... oh wait, I rent, I can't deduct anything even remotely resembling housing costs.

Uh, lots of states have renters deductions.

Name them.


1. Google
2. Yahoo
3. Bing
4. Ask
5. Infoseek
6. Wikipedia
7. AOL
 
2012-03-31 11:10:22 PM
Money, education, property and assets are now debt. When you're done with the math, meet me in Zucotti park.
 
2012-03-31 11:10:23 PM
God, why does this sound familiar?

Oh,

These two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis. The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing. - Barney Frank (D-Mass.), 2003
 
2012-03-31 11:10:46 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: Ravage: People could, you know, pay them off. Or not go to college. College is a privilege not a right. If you don't want to work your way through it, or even pay for it after the fact, maybe you shouldn't bother.

You say that college is a privilege and not a right. What about primary and secondary education? Couldn't we take your logic and say, "education is a privilege"?


Actually, I do think that lower education is also a privilege not a right, but the benefit to society in having a literate population makes elementary education worthwhile. Beyond 8th grade or so, going back to a journeyman style training for technical specialized skills would not be a bad thing.
 
2012-03-31 11:11:23 PM

CapnBlues: They're also bundling it and trading it in collateralized debt obligations on the stock market. Except there can be no foreclosure on student debt, so they'll just have a population of indentured servants, which (let's face it) is what they've been trying to do since the magna carta.


Oh well that's nice, what the hell is wrong with these people that allow that?
 
2012-03-31 11:12:23 PM

Gyrfalcon: BigLuca: Between my wife and I, we will have almost 1/2 a million in student loans once I get out of school. So, getting a kick, etc...

I have almost a quarter-million all by my self. It's a great incentive to get out there an look for work.


Unless you're both trolling, you're both gigantic idiots.
 
2012-03-31 11:12:51 PM
Well, it's not really a crisis so much as a core competency mathematics test for incoming freshmen.

Huh, $150K in debt for an undergrad degree, and nobody's offering you a job either? Why do I so frequently hear those complaints from the same people?
 
2012-03-31 11:14:06 PM

GoodyearPimp: ElBarto79: I could go on a huge rant about about student loans but one thing that I find deeply unfair about them is that you cannot discharge them in bankruptcy. You can make some stupid real estate purchases, end up hundreds of thousands in debt, declare bankruptcy and get a new start on life, yet young, inexperienced kids who are away from their parents for the first time in their lives do not get this same benefit.

The bank can reclaim and resell property. They can't reclaim and resell the knowledge. There is nothing "unfair" about it. If you want to put up something beyond your "credit score" as collateral, maybe we can make a deal.


This is a common response but is total bullshiat. If I rack up 50k in credit card debt and declare bankruptcy what exactly is the cc company going to reposes? All those restaurant meals, the vacation to Europe, bars, etc. you can't take back.

Bankruptcy is not about a company taking back their stuff, it's a means for someone in an impossible situation to have an opportunity to start over and that's what is being denied to young kids with overwhelming student loans. It is deeply, deeply unfair.
 
2012-03-31 11:14:19 PM

Ravage: The_Gallant_Gallstone: Ravage: People could, you know, pay them off. Or not go to college. College is a privilege not a right. If you don't want to work your way through it, or even pay for it after the fact, maybe you shouldn't bother.

You say that college is a privilege and not a right. What about primary and secondary education? Couldn't we take your logic and say, "education is a privilege"?

Actually, I do think that lower education is also a privilege not a right, but the benefit to society in having a literate population makes elementary education worthwhile. Beyond 8th grade or so, going back to a journeyman style training for technical specialized skills would not be a bad thing.


Education is a responsibility, one which every citizen should undertake with the tools the public government provides them. Just like you'd do to defend the farking country if your selective service came up.
 
2012-03-31 11:14:29 PM

rebelyell2006: Ravage: If you don't want to work your way through it, or even pay for it after the fact, maybe you shouldn't bother.

One of my potentially future employers told me that bosses in my particular field find unpaid internships and volunteer positions to be far more valuable on a resume than burger flipping. Having applicable experience is far better than paying off my grad school loans a couple months earlier (and will potentially yield a better paycheck as well).


And those better paychecks allow you to pay those loans. I said "or" to allow for situations like that. Just don't complain to me when your basketweaving degree doesn't get you a job and your volunteer work at the tree huggers anonymous group doesn't swing your potential employer to your side.
 
2012-03-31 11:17:07 PM
CNN, as the tip of a proper organ of the Democratic party, wants you to know that if there is student loan debt problem, there's nothing worth reporting, and certainly no meaningful impact to tthe economy, until around mid-November, around the same time the AB missile withdrawal in Europe will commence.
 
2012-03-31 11:17:10 PM
Wall st. is a bookie joint, the hallowed halls are a debt farm and you had best be learning Chinese.
 
2012-03-31 11:17:14 PM

herrDrFarkenstein: Little.Alex: The_Gallant_Gallstone: Little.Alex: This whole thread is a great example of why the government shouldn't be involved in education.

Government shouln't play any role in education?

No public schools?

I can't support you on that... it would give the Roman Catholic Church another shot at dominating education and we can't have that.


What about voucher programs for k-12?

...

Bullshiat. Public education is the only answer for a broadly and completely educated population. Education is infrastructure in the 21st century, just like farking roads, building codes, and defense. If you think there's a free market solution you're deluded. Send your kids to some farking Sylvan center for chumps, or to a charter school that is actually burning tax dollars and you just ignore reality.



Except that public education is falling apart. About as many people fail to graduate High School as attend college. The massive public monopoly/ Political Cartel model is falling apart, and it's particularly hard on minorities.

If your public school system is so great; why do most Public School teachers send their kids to private schools? It seems like you're the one ignoring reality.
 
2012-03-31 11:17:24 PM

herrDrFarkenstein: 1. Google


PA has a Rental Rebate program is you're over a certain age and under a certain income threshold.

Even if 30 states had awesome "Rent Rebate" programs, that would mean nothing.

To pooh-pooh the advocates of student loan debt restructuring for advocating "reverse socialism" in relation to those without college educations while ignoring the existing federal subsidies that reward home ownership is evidence of disjointed thinking.
 
2012-03-31 11:18:02 PM

sure haven't: Gyrfalcon: BigLuca: Between my wife and I, we will have almost 1/2 a million in student loans once I get out of school. So, getting a kick, etc...

I have almost a quarter-million all by my self. It's a great incentive to get out there an look for work.

Unless you're both trolling, you're both gigantic idiots.


My student loans have their own medium-sized African nation.
 
2012-03-31 11:18:48 PM

Little.Alex: This whole thread is a great example of why the government shouldn't be involved in education. It's distorted the market so badly that it's becoming a national disaster. Run away inflation in education, and universities lowering standards to get in on the cash. So more people have more debt in exchange for less education.

Plus you get to graduate into a contracting economy, as taxes and regulation pound the shiat out of prospective employers.

No wonder you're called Generation Screwed.

[cdn.trendhunterstatic.com image 600x327]

The hilarious thing is so many of you still worship the Big Government ideas that are now ass-ramming you so hard.


2.bp.blogspot.com
It's all about having the right brand.
Behold, the power of iconography.
 
2012-03-31 11:19:00 PM

9beers: Take your ass to a community college or other smaller schools and you won't be so farking far in debt. You could also get off your ass and get a job while in school rather than spending all your free time partying.


Good advice...

...if this were 1973.
 
2012-03-31 11:19:30 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: herrDrFarkenstein: 1. Google

PA has a Rental Rebate program is you're over a certain age and under a certain income threshold.

Even if 30 states had awesome "Rent Rebate" programs, that would mean nothing.

To pooh-pooh the advocates of student loan debt restructuring for advocating "reverse socialism" in relation to those without college educations while ignoring the existing federal subsidies that reward home ownership is evidence of disjointed thinking.


Whatever farkstick. I was just telling somebody that a number of states give renters breaks. That was the question, that was my answer. Light a bone or something and chill out.
 
2012-03-31 11:19:43 PM

herrDrFarkenstein:
Bullshiat. Public education is the only answer for a broadly and completely educated population. Education is infrastructure in the 21st century, just like farking roads, building codes, and defense. If you think there's a free market solution you're deluded. Send your kids to some farking Sylvan center for chumps, or to a charter school that is actually burning tax dollars and you just ignore reality.


i40.tinypic.com
 
2012-03-31 11:20:41 PM

Little.Alex: If your public school system is so great; why do most Public School teachers send their kids to private schools? It seems like you're the one ignoring reality.


Public schools aren't uniformly bad. The lack of uniformity may be the problem.

Some public schools, like Council Rock in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, are among the finest in the nation, including private schools.

The decentralized administration of schools and their dependency on local taxes cause a very wide disparity in quality.
 
2012-03-31 11:20:59 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: Obligatory

[i232.photobucket.com image 502x338]


This......AND:

Debt is over 1 trillion dollars. It is federally guaranteed. This means there is 1 trillion dollars or most likely toxic debt that cannot be wiped out due to bankruptcy waiting to crush the next "recovery." Academia has consistently raised tuition and fees so they can be paid well. So education costs more than ever to obtain, gets you less than leverage in the real world for a decent salary, and is required for positions 10 years ago would have wanted a solid work history (as proof of train-ability) and a clean criminal record. Yes, i can see how it is this generation fault....actually its not. Baby Boomers go Fark yourself. You, as an aggregate generation, once again prove you lack the skills of adaptability, deduction, and inference. I saw this coming, you should have too.

That said, I had foreseen some crap like this happening. I knew the housing bubble was going to hit in 2006 with the Dem controlled Congress said "Hey, evil bank guys, you need to have a certain amount of sub prime mortgages so people who deserve homes but can't afford them get them. Or else.... we will mess with your tax breaks that allow you to make tons of money by using money." Banks said "Dammit, this is going to end poorly, but we will play along." I did not know exactly when, but as a Junior in college that saw what happened to the markets when 9-11 occurred, I decided to not take out a bunch of debt to go to college. I decided to only get a 3.5 instead of a 4.0 so I could work full time and have very little debt when done. So I graduated with a very manageable 5k in debt and a college degree.

I now make reasonable money for where I live and have very little debt, none of which is residual from college, and have been able to afford whatever I want within reason. Sometimes, I have to work longer hours than others, but it is not too bad for me. I took in the clues and made sure I went to a college I could afford. It is not a great college, but I weighed the options and it seems my read of the situation was correct so far.

THIS is the new (old?) college game plan. Pay as you go, and tell the banks and the feds to get stuffed. Taking a loan out for college is a toxic move right now.
 
2012-03-31 11:21:57 PM
Bullshiat. Public education is the only answer for a broadly and completely educated population. Education is infrastructure in the 21st century, just like farking roads, building codes, and defense. If you think there's a free market solution you're deluded. Send your kids to some farking Sylvan center for chumps, or to a charter school that is actually burning tax dollars and you just ignore reality.
 
2012-03-31 11:22:07 PM

Ravage: rebelyell2006: Ravage: If you don't want to work your way through it, or even pay for it after the fact, maybe you shouldn't bother.

One of my potentially future employers told me that bosses in my particular field find unpaid internships and volunteer positions to be far more valuable on a resume than burger flipping. Having applicable experience is far better than paying off my grad school loans a couple months earlier (and will potentially yield a better paycheck as well).

And those better paychecks allow you to pay those loans. I said "or" to allow for situations like that. Just don't complain to me when your basketweaving degree doesn't get you a job and your volunteer work at the tree huggers anonymous group doesn't swing your potential employer to your side.


If you weren't such a shiat-talker, you might realize that museums, libraries, archives and other educational and heritage sites offer a variety of volunteering and internship opportunities. Sites that love public history and museum studies students. But I guess since you think that education is a privilege, you wouldn't even think of non-profits as employers.
 
2012-03-31 11:22:10 PM

herrDrFarkenstein: Whatever farkstick. I was just telling somebody that a number of states give renters breaks. That was the question, that was my answer. Light a bone or something and chill out.


Hey, as long as you acknowledge that state rental rebates are a sorry excuse for the lack of a federal rebate, it's all good "farkstick"
 
2012-03-31 11:22:59 PM

noit: What a minute. Borrowing hundreds of thousands of dollars to binge drink and have casual sex for four years has consequences?


Dammit. I worked full time through college, ended up $100k in debt, and got absolutely no nookie while horrifyingly sober.

I apparently did it all wrong.

/paid final bill in February
//seven years early
///figuratively had to suck a lot of corporate cock to do it
////p.s. I farked you all over during a government subcontract. This thread makes it feel worth it.
 
2012-03-31 11:26:18 PM

Little.Alex:
Except that public education is falling apart. About as many people fail to graduate High School as attend college. The massive public monopoly/ Political Cartel model is falling apart, and it's particularly hard on minorities.

If your public school system is so great; why do most Public School teachers send their kids to private schools? It seems like you're the one ignoring reality.


Public education isn't falling apart. It was never built. Our system sends kids to school about 180 days a year on an agrarian calendar for a pre-industrial world. Koreans go 220, Singapore 200. Imagine how much work you'd get done if you only showed up half the year, we do the same thing with kids' brains - and they get to spend the rest of the time farking off or warehoused in daycare while their parents work.

And your jibe about teachers is complete bullshiat. (They couldn't afford it anyway ;-)
 
2012-03-31 11:27:03 PM

Little.Alex: Except that public education is falling apart. About as many people fail to graduate High School as attend college. The massive public monopoly/ Political Cartel model is falling apart, and it's particularly hard on minorities.

If your public school system is so great; why do most Public School teachers send their kids to private schools? It seems like you're the one ignoring reality.


Because the states want to control the curriculum while reducing the funds? Educational programs should be fully funded by the government, but politicians should not be deciding what the schools teach. That should be left to real teachers with relevant degrees and training.
 
2012-03-31 11:28:04 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Bullshiat. Public education is the only answer for a broadly and completely educated population. Education is infrastructure in the 21st century, just like farking roads, building codes, and defense. If you think there's a free market solution you're deluded. Send your kids to some farking Sylvan center for chumps, or to a charter school that is actually burning tax dollars and you just ignore reality.


ah...herrDrFarkenstein...obvious hat tip intended...
 
2012-03-31 11:28:19 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: herrDrFarkenstein: Whatever farkstick. I was just telling somebody that a number of states give renters breaks. That was the question, that was my answer. Light a bone or something and chill out.

Hey, as long as you acknowledge that state rental rebates are a sorry excuse for the lack of a federal rebate, it's all good "farkstick"


Agreed, it's a very sorry situation. Good thing my income was low enough for EIC while I rented. Suck my d1ck.
 
2012-03-31 11:29:40 PM

itsajungleboy: What's so hard for students to calculate simple cost/benefit and then not over pay for their degree. Maybe they aren't smart enough to figure this out until after they finish college. Nevermind.


rofl
 
2012-03-31 11:29:53 PM

sure haven't: Gyrfalcon: BigLuca: Between my wife and I, we will have almost 1/2 a million in student loans once I get out of school. So, getting a kick, etc...

I have almost a quarter-million all by my self. It's a great incentive to get out there an look for work.

Unless you're both trolling, you're both gigantic idiots.


Okay, I'll bite, why is that? It can be a good investment if you do it right.
 
2012-03-31 11:31:06 PM

ElBarto79: This is a common response but is total bullshiat. If I rack up 50k in credit card debt and declare bankruptcy what exactly is the cc company going to reposes? All those restaurant meals, the vacation to Europe, bars, etc. you can't take back.


That's why credit cards have double-digit interest rates, and most people don't have $80,000 credit limits on their cards.

Arguably it's unfair to deny students bankruptcy protection. But be careful what you wish for: if student debt "fair" it would have interest rates and borrowing limits comparable to any other unsecured loan with the same size and risk.
 
2012-03-31 11:31:14 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Little.Alex: This whole thread is a great example of why the government shouldn't be involved in education. It's distorted the market so badly that it's becoming a national disaster. Run away inflation in education, and universities lowering standards to get in on the cash. So more people have more debt in exchange for less education.

Plus you get to graduate into a contracting economy, as taxes and regulation pound the shiat out of prospective employers.

No wonder you're called Generation Screwed.

[cdn.trendhunterstatic.com image 600x327]

The hilarious thing is so many of you still worship the Big Government ideas that are now ass-ramming you so hard.

Bunch of whiners, Millennial need to shut up and pay their taxes. At least until the Boomers start another farking war they won't pay or bleed for, then you have my blessings to rage.

Not Millennial, it is Generation Y, as in "Why do you keep adding to our debt to pay for your stupidity then blame us when things suck baby boomers?"

Paid cash for damn near all my college, don't lump us in with those OWS martians.OWS is not a true representation of our cohort, but most baby boomers will believe almost anything they see on TV

 
2012-03-31 11:31:15 PM

herrDrFarkenstein: Ravage: The_Gallant_Gallstone: Ravage: People could, you know, pay them off. Or not go to college. College is a privilege not a right. If you don't want to work your way through it, or even pay for it after the fact, maybe you shouldn't bother.

You say that college is a privilege and not a right. What about primary and secondary education? Couldn't we take your logic and say, "education is a privilege"?

Actually, I do think that lower education is also a privilege not a right, but the benefit to society in having a literate population makes elementary education worthwhile. Beyond 8th grade or so, going back to a journeyman style training for technical specialized skills would not be a bad thing.

Education is a responsibility, one which every citizen should undertake with the tools the public government provides them. Just like you'd do to defend the farking country if your selective service came up.


Yea, I buy that. The detriment to society in an illiterate population makes getting a basic education a social responsibility. At such a young age people are not socially responsible. That puts the responsibility on the parents, not the government.
 
2012-03-31 11:35:11 PM

Ravage: herrDrFarkenstein: Ravage: The_Gallant_Gallstone: Ravage: People could, you know, pay them off. Or not go to college. College is a privilege not a right. If you don't want to work your way through it, or even pay for it after the fact, maybe you shouldn't bother.

You say that college is a privilege and not a right. What about primary and secondary education? Couldn't we take your logic and say, "education is a privilege"?

Actually, I do think that lower education is also a privilege not a right, but the benefit to society in having a literate population makes elementary education worthwhile. Beyond 8th grade or so, going back to a journeyman style training for technical specialized skills would not be a bad thing.

Education is a responsibility, one which every citizen should undertake with the tools the public government provides them. Just like you'd do to defend the farking country if your selective service came up.

Yea, I buy that. The detriment to society in an illiterate population makes getting a basic education a social responsibility. At such a young age people are not socially responsible. That puts the responsibility on the parents, not the government.


As long as it is a state government doing it, I am good with this. Education needs local control. The Feds fark it up every time.
 
2012-03-31 11:36:00 PM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: noit: What a minute. Borrowing hundreds of thousands of dollars to binge drink and have casual sex for four years has consequences?

Dammit. I worked full time through college, ended up $100k in debt, and got absolutely no nookie while horrifyingly sober.

I apparently did it all wrong.


If by "college" you mean an undergraduate degree, then definitely. College only costs about $7000/year in tuition, maybe twice that if you live in a state with an imploding economy. If you work full time and go to college, you can't possibly end up $100K in debt unless you purposely went to one of the most expensive private colleges in the country, and/or spent your loans on things other than tuition.

On the other hand, if you're $100K in debt from a professional degree, that's different.
 
2012-03-31 11:36:19 PM
Little.Alex: If you can't be adult enough to call the president by his given name, then you're obviously not adult enough to join in the conversation. Adios and welcome to ignore.
 
2012-03-31 11:36:24 PM

Little.Alex: The hilarious thing is so many of you still worship the Big Government ideas that are now ass-ramming you so hard.


The government for our entire lives has been Reagan, Bush, two years of genuine Clinton followed by 6 years of kow-tow-to-the-right Clinton, followed by 8 years of Bush Jr.

The people who said Government was bad thing were the ones screwing us. Ya hate a thing, like how republicans claim to hate government, of course they're gonna suck managing it. Any shock we might think government might not be such a bad thing?
 
2012-03-31 11:37:12 PM

ElBarto79: This is a common response but is total bullshiat. If I rack up 50k in credit card debt and declare bankruptcy what exactly is the cc company going to reposes? All those restaurant meals, the vacation to Europe, bars, etc. you can't take back.


True. And perhaps the credit card industry will be less apt to loan to not just you but anyone with similar criteria. While I'd love to see a "credit check" system in place for student loans, it would be widely criticized for assigning higher interest rates to the folks that are in most need of assistance. That system would be unfair. Making students pay back loans they took out in good faith isn't "unfair".
 
2012-03-31 11:38:02 PM

Ravage: herrDrFarkenstein: Ravage: The_Gallant_Gallstone: Ravage: People could, you know, pay them off. Or not go to college. College is a privilege not a right. If you don't want to work your way through it, or even pay for it after the fact, maybe you shouldn't bother.

You say that college is a privilege and not a right. What about primary and secondary education? Couldn't we take your logic and say, "education is a privilege"?

Actually, I do think that lower education is also a privilege not a right, but the benefit to society in having a literate population makes elementary education worthwhile. Beyond 8th grade or so, going back to a journeyman style training for technical specialized skills would not be a bad thing.

Education is a responsibility, one which every citizen should undertake with the tools the public government provides them. Just like you'd do to defend the farking country if your selective service came up.

Yea, I buy that. The detriment to society in an illiterate population makes getting a basic education a social responsibility. At such a young age people are not socially responsible. That puts the responsibility on the parents, not the government.


No, government provides the materials and the structure for the education. Your family doesn't have to provide your goddamn M4 carbine, chow hall and air support if you're in the military. Your family shouldn't have to pay the whole goddamn cost to educate you. Your family does have a responsibility to pay taxes, to participate in government to make sure those taxes are spent well, to make your sorry ass study hard, fill out your selective service card, and put you on the bus if you're needed at the front, and to kick your ass when you slack.

There isn't one responsibility. There are levels of individual and social responsibility. This reality is all too often lost by objectivist morons and hyper-sensitive privelege whiners.
 
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