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(Washington Post)   People who harass the family of an abortion doctor's landlord learn that payback is a biatch   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 407
    More: Amusing, George Tiller, harassers, office park, working time, LeRoy Carhart, reproductive healths, landlords, Germantown  
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36447 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Mar 2012 at 1:20 AM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-29 09:02:07 PM
Nicely done.
 
2012-03-29 09:11:11 PM
No hero tag?
 
2012-03-29 09:13:31 PM
I don't believe a telephone call will stop the Eric Rudolphs of this world.
 
2012-03-29 09:13:43 PM
Cool. The 1st page. Stupid pay wall.
The 2nd page is in another link around here, somewhere.
 
2012-03-29 09:13:54 PM
i36.photobucket.com
 
2012-03-29 09:15:29 PM
2wolves: I don't believe a telephone call will stop the Eric Rudolphs of this world.

no, but little stops the insane. This will at least stop the ones that are just morans.
 
2012-03-29 09:16:03 PM
 
2012-03-29 09:21:20 PM
I'd start watching for the protestors who send their kids to the clinic and tell as many people as possible that such and such's daughter visitied. Not disclose what might have happened of course, that would be wrong, but simply say that they saw them walking in. Doesn't violate anything.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2012-03-29 09:30:08 PM
Nadie_AZ: Direct link to page 2 (new window)

That link goes to a signup page.
 
2012-03-29 09:35:11 PM
page 1:

"Regardless of how you feel about abortion, the way Todd Stave flipped the script on his bullies is pretty dang clever.

Stave is the landlord of a medical clinic in Germantown that offers abortions. Reproductive Health Services Clinic became a big focus of anti-abortion protesters when it was leased to LeRoy Carhart, one of the few doctors in the nation who acknowledges performing late-term abortions.

There are always protesters outside the office park property quietly praying or holding a vigil, with signs, rosaries, statues of Mary and bloody, gory posters of mangled fetuses.

"Totally appropriate. It's their right. They are protected by the First Amendment. And outside the clinic is probably the most appropriate place for them to express their views," he told me this week.

This has been a way of life for Stave. He's not just a landlord. That office was his father's clinic. Then his sister ran it.

"I've been a member of this fight since Roe v. Wade. Since I was 5 years old," he said. The office was firebombed when he was kid, and protesters gathered outside his father's home as he was growing up. So he's no stranger to the harassment and bullying of doctors and their families.

It's become routine for protesters to distribute fliers, posters and create Web sites with all of a doctor's personal information and urge others to target them. Kansas doctor George Tiller was killed in 2009 and his protege, Carhart, had his farm burned to the ground.

The tactical twist - to focus on a clinic's property owner - was also a clever move. Stave himself could take it. He's pretty tough after all these years in this debate.

But his harassers crossed the line last fall, when a big group showed up at his daughter's middle school on the first day of classes and again at back-to-school night. They had signs with his name and contact information as well as those awful images of the fetuses.

"What parent wants to have that conversation with an 11-year-old on the first day of school?" he fumed.

Soon after that, the harassing calls from protesters started coming to his home. By the dozens, at all hours. Friends asked him how they could help. He began to take the names and phone numbers down of anyone who contacted him with an unwanted call. And he gave those lists to his friends and asked them to call these folks back.

"In a very calm, very respectful voice, they said that the Stave family thanks you for your prayers," he said. "They cannot terminate the lease, and they do not want to. They support women's rights."

This started with a dozen or so friends, then grew. Soon, there were more than a thousand volunteers dialing.

If they could find the information, Stave's callers would even ask the family how their children were doing, and mention their names and the name of their school. "And then we'd tell them that we bless their home on such and such street," giving them their address.

In some cases, the family of a protester who called Stave's home could get up to 5,000 calls in return".
 
2012-03-29 09:37:06 PM
page 2:

"Harsh? Nope.

"We gave them back what they gave us," he said. Do onto others, and so forth.

The supporters came so fast and in such big numbers, Stave founded a group, Voice for Choice . And now there are about 3,000 volunteers ready to make calm, reasoned calls to the homes of people who bombard doctors, landlords and families with their unsolicited protests at homes or schools across the country.

Stave is pretty rakish about explaining the tactic, clearly enjoying turning the tables after decades of not fighting back.

"What? They don't want unsolicited calls to their homes?" he asked.

Still, there are calls they won't make.

"Someone might call and say: "They're protesting in front of my clinic. They're praying, chanting, with their signs.' And I say: 'Are they harassing you? Harassing the patients?'" Stave said.

"And if they say 'No', then I say: 'I can't help you. There is no more appropriate place for them to do this than here. They are protected by the First Amendment."

He is being called a hero and even received an award from NARAL at a big gala in California last week. And that's when the trouble began again.

While he was out in California, his neighborhood was canvassed with fliers depicting Stave in a Nazi uniform, with graphic photos of Holocaust victims and mangled fetuses. And it had all of his contact information as well as phone numbers and addresses for other family members.

"It wasn't random. They knew I'd be gone and they wanted my daughters and neighbors to find them," he said.

On Monday, a protester showed up outside of his brother-in-law's Rockville dental office, protesting abortion where molars were being extracted.

"How was your trip to San Francisco?" the protester asked Stave, when he arrived at the dental office to confront him.

Seriously? Confronting patients getting cavities filled with horrifying posters of a ripped up fetus is a reasonable protest tactic?

And these folks don't seem to care if children are around for the show. One year, the March for Life protesters leaving the Mall poured into the playground of my child's pre-K school, slapping stickers on their jackets and putting fliers into the hands of 4-year-olds . The police were called to get them out.

All of this is ridiculous.

People who want to stop abortion can make a difference with education, support, counseling and genuine efforts to prevent unwanted pregnancies and support childrearing.

They need to be working toward affordable and safe childcare for all, solid healthcare for children and generous workplace policies and family leave so that parenthood is not an onerous and difficult prospect in America.

In last year's report "Failing its Families," Human Rights Watch wrote that at least 178 countries have national laws guaranteeing paid maternity leave. The exceptions include Swaziland, Papua New Guinea and the good ole United States of America.

Working on real issues like this, that actually support the family values these protesters say they hold so dearly is one way to stop abortions.

But harassing schoolchildren - or even dentists - is not".
 
2012-03-29 09:38:17 PM
It's fixed.
 
2012-03-29 09:42:34 PM
Nadie_AZ: Cool. The 1st page. Stupid pay wall.
The 2nd page is in another link around here, somewhere.


end of the month, the reclick to show my wife the first page tripped it for me...
 
2012-03-29 09:47:10 PM
www.sadanduseless.com
 
2012-03-29 09:59:31 PM
Need a hero tag. I have the utmost respect for these people.

/the doctor and landlord, I mean
 
2012-03-29 10:11:02 PM
This! This might finally be the tactic to finally wake up some of the borderline fundies to the idea of fair play and just how actually scary reminding someone a stranger knows where their kids go to school, and knows their names. In a non threatening way...

MODS... ADMINS.... I know there are a couple of you are on tonight, this thread needs it's tag changed to HERO!
 
2012-03-29 10:18:59 PM
I hate to say it, but I don't believe this guy will be effective as he's battling a group with no sense of ethics. Escalating against them will result in him, and likely his daughter, ending up dead.

I love that he's trying to draw a line in the sand though. I just think he may end up a martyr. The evangelical fringe are capable of evils that would make Satan say "I say, that's a bit strong!"
 
2012-03-29 10:25:36 PM
Wouldn't real payback be to go to these people's businesses with big billboard sized signs of crowning babies, dirty diapers, and lactating nipples?
 
2012-03-29 10:31:49 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-03-29 10:37:20 PM
This is about the only issue I have an opinion about.

Nobody has a right to tell anyone else what to do with their life. Period... x3

Bravo Mr. Stave.
 
2012-03-29 10:42:13 PM
i1222.photobucket.com
Would love to help out.
 
2012-03-29 10:42:28 PM
I don't really have a side in the abortion debate, but kudos to the landlord for getting payback on a bunch of douches
 
2012-03-29 10:43:22 PM
Conservatives are only in favor of free speech if it's their own. Everyone else can suck it.

Republicans 2012: Fark you. I got mine.
 
2012-03-29 10:44:06 PM
doglover: Wouldn't real payback be to go to these people's businesses with big billboard sized signs of crowning babies, dirty diapers, and lactating nipples?

Did you see this week's 'Shameless'? Crowning babies are not HOT, regardless of the vajayjay.

Great idea. Might remind the wives why they should stand up for other women.
 
2012-03-29 10:44:59 PM
Man... there really are some crazy farking people in this world.
 
2012-03-29 10:50:02 PM
I don't know where to stand on this. I do get a kick out of the strategy of lodging lots of polite phone calls to folks who have been publishing a doctor's home address, harassing his kids and in-laws and landlord, and mentioning their home address, repeatedly (and politely). It might make a few calls for them to realize that what they are doing is obnoxious.

I just don't think it will be effective, because the really militant anti-abortionists won't care.

Also, I'm not down with the idea of abortions after 20 weeks, which is what the featured doctor apparently specializes in. At that stage, the fetus is kicking and the mother is very obviously pregnant.

I'm totally supportive of a woman's right to choose. It wouldn't be up for debate if men got pregnant. Day-after pill, abortion at three/six weeks, I have no problem with. I know it's impossible to decide what the limits are, but I think 20 weeks is too late unless the pregnancy itself is seriously threatening the mother's health.

Well, an earlier thread asked for unpopular opinions. Here's mine.
 
2012-03-29 10:53:30 PM
ElizaDoolittle: Also, I'm not down with the idea of abortions after 20 weeks, which is what the featured doctor apparently specializes in. At that stage, the fetus is kicking and the mother is very obviously pregnant.

I understand people are squeamish about this, but the reality is that it is legal, and these people are using intimindation in order to make it basically impossible for women to get access to a legal procedure. And the doctors who do it put their life, quite literally, at risk in order to provide this service to desperate people.

If someone thinks this is wrong, try to make it illegal. You don't harass and intimidate the individuals involved who have no power over the legality of it.
 
2012-03-29 10:57:37 PM
ElizaDoolittle: I don't know where to stand on this. I do get a kick out of the strategy of lodging lots of polite phone calls to folks who have been publishing a doctor's home address, harassing his kids and in-laws and landlord, and mentioning their home address, repeatedly (and politely). It might make a few calls for them to realize that what they are doing is obnoxious.

I just don't think it will be effective, because the really militant anti-abortionists won't care.

Also, I'm not down with the idea of abortions after 20 weeks, which is what the featured doctor apparently specializes in. At that stage, the fetus is kicking and the mother is very obviously pregnant.

I'm totally supportive of a woman's right to choose. It wouldn't be up for debate if men got pregnant. Day-after pill, abortion at three/six weeks, I have no problem with. I know it's impossible to decide what the limits are, but I think 20 weeks is too late unless the pregnancy itself is seriously threatening the mother's health.

Well, an earlier thread asked for unpopular opinions. Here's mine.


Here's the deal: the crazy people live in a bubble into which reason seldom intrudes. They are absolutely convinced that the Man in the Sky wants them to use terror tactics against fellow Americans. You're never going to have an effect on the hardcore people, but a good percentage will hear the person on the other end of the phone mention their address and realize what they have been doing isn't right. (Nor is it Christian.)
 
2012-03-29 11:07:48 PM
doglover: crowning babies

That would be adorable!

Like on "Toddlers and Tiaras", right?
 
2012-03-29 11:12:01 PM
ElizaDoolittle: I don't know where to stand on this. I do get a kick out of the strategy of lodging lots of polite phone calls to folks who have been publishing a doctor's home address, harassing his kids and in-laws and landlord, and mentioning their home address, repeatedly (and politely). It might make a few calls for them to realize that what they are doing is obnoxious.

I just don't think it will be effective, because the really militant anti-abortionists won't care.

Also, I'm not down with the idea of abortions after 20 weeks, which is what the featured doctor apparently specializes in. At that stage, the fetus is kicking and the mother is very obviously pregnant.

I'm totally supportive of a woman's right to choose. It wouldn't be up for debate if men got pregnant. Day-after pill, abortion at three/six weeks, I have no problem with. I know it's impossible to decide what the limits are, but I think 20 weeks is too late unless the pregnancy itself is seriously threatening the mother's health.

Well, an earlier thread asked for unpopular opinions. Here's mine.


That pretty much mirrors my opinions on the matter.
 
2012-03-29 11:13:02 PM
Awesome! Those anti-abortion lunatics can fark off and die in a fire. No one is making THEM have an abortion. They are living proof that some people DESERVE to be aborted.
 
2012-03-29 11:17:42 PM
DamnYankees: ElizaDoolittle: Also, I'm not down with the idea of abortions after 20 weeks, which is what the featured doctor apparently specializes in. At that stage, the fetus is kicking and the mother is very obviously pregnant.

I understand people are squeamish about this, but the reality is that it is legal, and these people are using intimindation in order to make it basically impossible for women to get access to a legal procedure. And the doctors who do it put their life, quite literally, at risk in order to provide this service to desperate people.

If someone thinks this is wrong, try to make it illegal. You don't harass and intimidate the individuals involved who have no power over the legality of it.


Why didn't the 20+-week-pregnant woman get an abortion 119 days ago? She'd have missed her period and probably suspected she was pregnant and was sure a week later. They sell pregnancy tests at every supermarket.

Please re-read my post. I am in favor of women having access to early abortion without judgement or intimidation.

I don't know anybody who would vote to allow abortion when the mother is 9 months and six days pregnant. I don't think you would. Would you?
 
2012-03-29 11:20:40 PM
If it weren't for all the death threats, I still wanna market the "Oops! brand Baby Catapult*"

images.travelpod.com

* Oops! brand Baby Catapults are not for use by or with actual babies. Not safe for children under 12. Never place anything dangerous in your Oops! brand Baby Catapult. Never aim Oops! bran Baby Catapult at people or animals. Oops! Co. Ltd. is not responsible for any damage or injuries caused by misuse of an Oops! brand Baby Catapult. Check local laws before using your Oops! brand Baby Catapult.
 
2012-03-29 11:20:49 PM
The best troll ever or the greatest troll ever?
 
2012-03-29 11:22:58 PM
ElizaDoolittle: DamnYankees: ElizaDoolittle: Also, I'm not down with the idea of abortions after 20 weeks, which is what the featured doctor apparently specializes in. At that stage, the fetus is kicking and the mother is very obviously pregnant.

I understand people are squeamish about this, but the reality is that it is legal, and these people are using intimindation in order to make it basically impossible for women to get access to a legal procedure. And the doctors who do it put their life, quite literally, at risk in order to provide this service to desperate people.

If someone thinks this is wrong, try to make it illegal. You don't harass and intimidate the individuals involved who have no power over the legality of it.

Why didn't the 20+-week-pregnant woman get an abortion 119 days ago?


How is it your business? What gives you the right to determine which medical procedures she needs?
 
2012-03-29 11:27:54 PM
ElizaDoolittle: Why didn't the 20+-week-pregnant woman get an abortion 119 days ago? She'd have missed her period and probably suspected she was pregnant and was sure a week later. They sell pregnancy tests at every supermarket.

Please re-read my post. I am in favor of women having access to early abortion without judgement or intimidation.

I don't know anybody who would vote to allow abortion when the mother is 9 months and six days pregnant. I don't think you would. Would you?


I would. BECAUSE IT'S NOT MY FRICKIN' BUSINESS.
 
2012-03-29 11:28:41 PM
ElizaDoolittle: Why didn't the 20+-week-pregnant woman get an abortion 119 days ago?

It's none of your business, frankly. For all you know, the baby has a horrible disease which wasn't diagnosed until then, or maybe something horrific happened in her personal life which made having a baby untenable.

It's very difficult to take your moral qualms seriously when your Weeners is to cast aspersions upon the woman and doubt her motives. That does not speak to someone who is honorably interested in the life of the child, but is rather intending to shame the mother. Maybe you didn't intend this, but that's how it comes off.

ElizaDoolittle: I don't know anybody who would vote to allow abortion when the mother is 9 months and six days pregnant. I don't think you would. Would you?

Not sure. I might. I'd have to think about it, but this is one of those things where I'm really not sure its my place to cast a judgment, and if we have a set a clear dividing line between abortion and murder, I might want to set that line at delivery.
 
2012-03-29 11:29:22 PM
ElizaDoolittle: Also, I'm not down with the idea of abortions after 20 weeks,

He does abortions over 20 weeks for the fetus going to kill the mother, extreme birth defects, very horrible genetic disorders.
 
2012-03-29 11:31:29 PM
You know, if people learned to mind their own damn business in this world, the news would be a lot quieter.
 
2012-03-29 11:34:41 PM
Confabulat: You know, if people learned to mind their own damn business in this world, the news would be a lot quieter.

If it's God's Business...
 
2012-03-29 11:43:39 PM
gimmegimme: ElizaDoolittle: DamnYankees: ElizaDoolittle: Also, I'm not down with the idea of abortions after 20 weeks, which is what the featured doctor apparently specializes in. At that stage, the fetus is kicking and the mother is very obviously pregnant.

I understand people are squeamish about this, but the reality is that it is legal, and these people are using intimindation in order to make it basically impossible for women to get access to a legal procedure. And the doctors who do it put their life, quite literally, at risk in order to provide this service to desperate people.

If someone thinks this is wrong, try to make it illegal. You don't harass and intimidate the individuals involved who have no power over the legality of it.

Why didn't the 20+-week-pregnant woman get an abortion 119 days ago?

How is it your business? What gives you the right to determine which medical procedures she needs?


You're trolling. I have spoken out against unnecessary vaginal ultra-sounds and making the pregnant mother watch the ultrasound. I have stated an opinion, and it is just that. I'm not dictating medical procedures for any woman. I have supported a woman's right to choose what happens to her body. I don't think she should take 20 weeks to do so and abort her kicking fetus. I say this without religious grounds.
 
2012-03-29 11:51:58 PM
ElizaDoolittle: She'd have missed her period and probably suspected she was pregnant and was sure a week later. They sell pregnancy tests at every supermarket.

I continued to have what appeared to be regular periods during the first 3 months of both my pregnancies. The overwhelming fatigue & nausea didn't seem strange since I was extremely stressed at the time and was already having trouble eating & sleeping.

Then again, I have crazy ovaries that are out to get me. Erratic isn't even the word for it.
 
2012-03-29 11:52:08 PM
2wolves: Confabulat: You know, if people learned to mind their own damn business in this world, the news would be a lot quieter.

If it's God's Business...


Then God can deal with it himself.
 
2012-03-29 11:56:14 PM
ElizaDoolittle: Why didn't the 20+-week-pregnant woman get an abortion 119 days ago? She'd have missed her period and probably suspected she was pregnant and was sure a week later. They sell pregnancy tests at every supermarket.

Please re-read my post. I am in favor of women having access to early abortion without judgement or intimidation.

I don't know anybody who would vote to allow abortion when the mother is 9 months and six days pregnant. I don't think you would. Would you?


You know that 20ish weeks is about half the 9m6d you also mention. And yea everyone's probably with you on the idea of aborting a newborn. Also (if you have looked into it at all) you probably know that "late term" 16 to 21 weeks abortions are almost exclusively for nonviable fetuses, or life threatening pregnancies for the mother... For the fraction of a percent otherwise, WHAT THE FARK BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS?
 
2012-03-30 12:02:53 AM
DamnYankees: ElizaDoolittle: Why didn't the 20+-week-pregnant woman get an abortion 119 days ago?

It's none of your business, frankly. For all you know, the baby has a horrible disease which wasn't diagnosed until then, or maybe something horrific happened in her personal life which made having a baby untenable.

It's very difficult to take your moral qualms seriously when your Weeners is to cast aspersions upon the woman and doubt her motives. That does not speak to someone who is honorably interested in the life of the child, but is rather intending to shame the mother. Maybe you didn't intend this, but that's how it comes off.

ElizaDoolittle: I don't know anybody who would vote to allow abortion when the mother is 9 months and six days pregnant. I don't think you would. Would you?

Not sure. I might. I'd have to think about it, but this is one of those things where I'm really not sure its my place to cast a judgment, and if we have a set a clear dividing line between abortion and murder, I might want to set that line at delivery.


You do know that there isn't a doctor, pro-life or pro-choice, who would abort a baby who's reached term and is about to be born? Carry on trolling.
 
2012-03-30 12:08:07 AM
SphericalTime: 2wolves: Confabulat: You know, if people learned to mind their own damn business in this world, the news would be a lot quieter.

If it's God's Business...

Then God can deal with it himself.


If only.
 
2012-03-30 12:41:08 AM
ElizaDoolittle: You're trolling. I have spoken out against unnecessary vaginal ultra-sounds and making the pregnant mother watch the ultrasound. I have stated an opinion, and it is just that. I'm not dictating medical procedures for any woman. I have supported a woman's right to choose what happens to her body. I don't think she should take 20 weeks to do so and abort her kicking fetus. I say this without religious grounds.

No, Ms. Doolittle, you're trolling. Late term abortions are necessary for a variety of reasons. None of which is your business.
 
2012-03-30 01:21:10 AM
DamnYankees: I understand people are squeamish about this, but the reality is that it is legal

The Holocaust was legal in the country it was performed in.
 
2012-03-30 01:28:47 AM
ElizaDoolittle: DamnYankees: ElizaDoolittle: Also, I'm not down with the idea of abortions after 20 weeks, which is what the featured doctor apparently specializes in. At that stage, the fetus is kicking and the mother is very obviously pregnant.

I understand people are squeamish about this, but the reality is that it is legal, and these people are using intimindation in order to make it basically impossible for women to get access to a legal procedure. And the doctors who do it put their life, quite literally, at risk in order to provide this service to desperate people.

If someone thinks this is wrong, try to make it illegal. You don't harass and intimidate the individuals involved who have no power over the legality of it.

Why didn't the 20+-week-pregnant woman get an abortion 119 days ago? She'd have missed her period and probably suspected she was pregnant and was sure a week later. They sell pregnancy tests at every supermarket.

Please re-read my post. I am in favor of women having access to early abortion without judgement or intimidation.

I don't know anybody who would vote to allow abortion when the mother is 9 months and six days pregnant. I don't think you would. Would you?


What's the qualitative difference between a first and third trimester abortion?
 
2012-03-30 01:28:59 AM
DamnYankees: ElizaDoolittle: Why didn't the 20+-week-pregnant woman get an abortion 119 days ago?

It's none of your business, frankly. For all you know, the baby has a horrible disease which wasn't diagnosed until then, or maybe something horrific happened in her personal life which made having a baby untenable.


One of my friends recently had to go through this because the baby had a genetic defect and definitely wasn't going to survive. I think she was about 5 months along. Watching her and her husband go through that, even just on the internet (they live in Canada), was heartbreaking.
 
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