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(ABC)   George Zimmerman on video after the shooting. Funny, those massive head injuries seem to have healed fast, and where's all the blood that should have stained his shirt from shooting someone who was on top of him?   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 1167
    More: Interesting, Caught on Camera, buzzer beater, head injuries  
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12610 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Mar 2012 at 9:31 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-29 01:29:12 PM  

ensign_noname: Why do you think the media purposely uses 3 year old pictures of Martin instead of the ones with him all tatted up with gold teeth?


Yeah, that current photo of him with gold teeth in the wifebeater doesn't show enough of him for anyone to tell if he has tattoos, for one thing, and for another, I still don't get why I'm supposed to be afraid of this unarmed kid.
 
2012-03-29 01:29:53 PM  

ericroane: if you don't think you're under arrest when you're handcuffed, put in the back of a police car and taken to the station, then you're not actually thinking. Was he charged?...no, arrested, definitely!


If he wasn't fingerprinted and booked, he wasn't arrested, definitely!
 
2012-03-29 01:29:54 PM  

dittybopper: someonelse: Dunno if this has been asked yet because this thread is bigger than my car, but shouldn't the police have actual ... you know, quality photos of the injuries Zimmerman allegedly sustained when his nose was broken and his head was slammed into the sidewalk repeatedly?

They may well have them, but haven't released them. I don't think they officially released this video.

There is no doubt a metric farkton of evidence that hasn't been released. Until it all gets released, all we are doing is jumping to vast conclusions on half-vast data.


Given the increasingly tense situation down there (and the possible threat to public safety) wouldn't the police have at least told the public that they have unambiguous photographic evidence of Zimmerman's injuries that match his story about having his head slammed into the pavement and his nose broken? For that matter, wouldn't the Sanford Chief of Police have brought any such pictures to the attention of the community before he was given a vote of no confidence?
 
2012-03-29 01:35:05 PM  

theMightyRegeya: Hey, that is the impression the public has. Maybe the department should have a press conference instead of clamming up...


The department issued two press releases updating the public on the status of the investigation and another responding to ABC's report of a narcotics investigation being used to question witnesses. The police department was doing what they should have done, nobody was paying attention.

If you're implying that they should hold a press conference laying out all of the evidence they've collected, well that just doesn't happen.
 
2012-03-29 01:35:06 PM  

9beers: relcec: if trayvon attacked first, what he did was reasonable under normal self defense theory because he reasonably feared an attack by zimmer.

Good point, now can you prove it?


Prove what? Either Martin attacked first or Zimmerman attacked first. We have evidence (911 tape and girlfriend phone call) that both were worried about what the other was up to. We have one who advanced the situation by seeking out the other. What is there to prove?
 
2012-03-29 01:37:13 PM  

stebain: Prove what? Either Martin attacked first or Zimmerman attacked first. We have evidence (911 tape and girlfriend phone call) that both were worried about what the other was up to. We have one who advanced the situation by seeking out the other. What is there to prove?


What? Prove who started the altercation, obviously.
 
2012-03-29 01:37:46 PM  

Confabulat: Hey, I'm at least glad I don't sit around all night defending the murder of an unarmed teenager.

I mean, at least I won that in life.

 
2012-03-29 01:39:20 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: still don't get why I'm supposed to be afraid of this unarmed kid.


Who said that you should be afraid of an unarmed kid? I know that I wouldn't be afraid of a 6 foot tall, 17 year old kid walking down the street. Now if that kid sucker punched me in the face, I'm pretty sure I'd have a reason to be fearful.
 
2012-03-29 01:40:10 PM  
www.trbimg.com
They see me polo'in
They hatin'
Tryin' ta catch me ridin' Gertie
 
2012-03-29 01:40:55 PM  

9beers: stebain: Prove what? Either Martin attacked first or Zimmerman attacked first. We have evidence (911 tape and girlfriend phone call) that both were worried about what the other was up to. We have one who advanced the situation by seeking out the other. What is there to prove?

What? Prove who started the altercation, obviously.


I gave you both scenarios. In each, Martin could be seen as defending himself.
 
2012-03-29 01:42:15 PM  
www.trbimg.com
Thuuughhh color'iiiin
 
2012-03-29 01:43:50 PM  

9beers: relcec: if trayvon attacked first, what he did was reasonable under normal self defense theory because he reasonably feared an attack by zimmer.

Good point, now can you prove it?


sure, reasonable people assume strangers have bad intentions when they chase them to around their neighborhood at night for no reason at all with guns.
 
2012-03-29 01:49:49 PM  

relcec: 9beers: relcec: if trayvon attacked first, what he did was reasonable under normal self defense theory because he reasonably feared an attack by zimmer.

Good point, now can you prove it?

sure, reasonable people assume strangers have bad intentions when they chase them to around their neighborhood at night for no reason at all with guns.


Really grasping. Hehe. By chase you mean follow, and by with a gun, you mean no gun. Its not like Zimmerman was running at Tray with a gun aimed at him.

According to liberals, if I drop a dollar on the ground, and someone picks it up and follows me to give it back, I can kick their ass. Nice.
 
2012-03-29 01:52:39 PM  

someonelse: dittybopper: someonelse: Dunno if this has been asked yet because this thread is bigger than my car, but shouldn't the police have actual ... you know, quality photos of the injuries Zimmerman allegedly sustained when his nose was broken and his head was slammed into the sidewalk repeatedly?

They may well have them, but haven't released them. I don't think they officially released this video.

There is no doubt a metric farkton of evidence that hasn't been released. Until it all gets released, all we are doing is jumping to vast conclusions on half-vast data.

Given the increasingly tense situation down there (and the possible threat to public safety) wouldn't the police have at least told the public that they have unambiguous photographic evidence of Zimmerman's injuries that match his story about having his head slammed into the pavement and his nose broken? For that matter, wouldn't the Sanford Chief of Police have brought any such pictures to the attention of the community before he was given a vote of no confidence?


And queer the entire investigation? Not likely, *ESPECIALLY* when they are under such a microscope. They are going to be making sure all the i's are dotted and t's crossed before they do *ANYTHING*, if for no other reason than to protect their jobs.
 
2012-03-29 01:53:07 PM  
What I guess probably happened was tough guy Zimmerman pulled out his pistol, told the kid to "stop or I'll shoot" the kid knew Zimmerman wasn't going to shoot so he got all gangsta on his ass, pulling up his shirt and yelling "What now foo!" then Zimmerman freaked out and shot him.

There are no angels or demons in real life, I'm sure they are/were both at fault. Zimmerman, an insecure douche-bag Internet tough guy (check out all my Glocks, I'm a real man) and Martin a "thug life" immature gangsta wannabe (like most teen boys these days) just tryin to represent, dawg! Skittles fo life!

The only problem is someone died.

Justice, whatever that means, is not going to bring back this kid, all that is going on now is useless. We need to drop it. I'm sure Zimmerman is going to regret this every day of his life, just like Martin's parents will regret they let their son run around at 2:30 in the morning acting all gangsta and shiat. However, any jail time, will likely be a death sentence for Zimmerman so no judge is going to send a guy to his death unless he knows exactly what happened.

That will never happen.
 
2012-03-29 01:55:32 PM  

stebain: 9beers: relcec: if trayvon attacked first, what he did was reasonable under normal self defense theory because he reasonably feared an attack by zimmer.

Good point, now can you prove it?

Prove what? Either Martin attacked first or Zimmerman attacked first. We have evidence (911 tape and girlfriend phone call) that both were worried about what the other was up to. We have one who advanced the situation by seeking out the other. What is there to prove?


Intent. Did Zimmerman intend to do violence to Martin, or was his intent to find out what he was doing? Case 1 puts Zimmerman in legal jeopardy, case 2 doesn't.
 
2012-03-29 01:57:48 PM  

Thunderpipes: relcec: 9beers: relcec: if trayvon attacked first, what he did was reasonable under normal self defense theory because he reasonably feared an attack by zimmer.

Good point, now can you prove it?

sure, reasonable people assume strangers have bad intentions when they chase them to around their neighborhood at night for no reason at all with guns.

Really grasping. Hehe. By chase you mean follow, and by with a gun, you mean no gun. Its not like Zimmerman was running at Tray with a gun aimed at him.

According to liberals, if I drop a dollar on the ground, and someone picks it up and follows me to give it back, I can kick their ass. Nice.


I'm not liberal, kid.
stalk someone at night, in a car, then get out and chase them down for no reason and you should damn well expect a fight, because reasonable people will expect you mean to do them harm in those circumstances. everytime.
 
2012-03-29 01:58:56 PM  
dittybopper:

So what if it was Martin who was armed? Then we'd only have Martin's side of the story.

A man is stalking him for no reason, then gets out of his car and starts to fight him - so he shot him in self-defence.

This looks like a GOOD reason to be carrying in Florida - so that you are the one who's left alive to give the explanation.
 
2012-03-29 02:01:51 PM  

superfudge73: What I guess probably happened was tough guy Zimmerman pulled out his pistol, told the kid to "stop or I'll shoot" the kid knew Zimmerman wasn't going to shoot so he got all gangsta on his ass, pulling up his shirt and yelling "What now foo!" then Zimmerman freaked out and shot him.

There are no angels or demons in real life, I'm sure they are/were both at fault. Zimmerman, an insecure douche-bag Internet tough guy (check out all my Glocks, I'm a real man) and Martin a "thug life" immature gangsta wannabe (like most teen boys these days) just tryin to represent, dawg! Skittles fo life!

The only problem is someone died.

Justice, whatever that means, is not going to bring back this kid, all that is going on now is useless. We need to drop it. I'm sure Zimmerman is going to regret this every day of his life, just like Martin's parents will regret they let their son run around at 2:30 in the morning acting all gangsta and shiat 7pm to get some snacks. However, any jail time, will likely be a death sentence for Zimmerman so no judge is going to send a guy to his death unless he knows exactly what happened.

That will never happen.


FTFY
 
2012-03-29 02:03:53 PM  

relcec: Thunderpipes: relcec: 9beers: relcec: if trayvon attacked first, what he did was reasonable under normal self defense theory because he reasonably feared an attack by zimmer.

Good point, now can you prove it?

sure, reasonable people assume strangers have bad intentions when they chase them to around their neighborhood at night for no reason at all with guns.

Really grasping. Hehe. By chase you mean follow, and by with a gun, you mean no gun. Its not like Zimmerman was running at Tray with a gun aimed at him.

According to liberals, if I drop a dollar on the ground, and someone picks it up and follows me to give it back, I can kick their ass. Nice.

I'm not liberal, kid.
stalk someone at night, in a car, then get out and chase them down for no reason and you should damn well expect a fight, because reasonable people will expect you mean to do them harm in those circumstances. everytime.


The law completely disagrees with you. This is fact. I like the word choices too. "Stalk", "chase them down". Nice.

The law says that if some random person starts following me anywhere, I have no special rights whatsoever unless they actually attack me. They can even yell at me, call me names, I still cannot attack them. Tray's duty (as you guys keep saying Zimmermans' was once attacked) was to ignore him, talk to him, or simply leave. He attacked. He died. Oops. No reasonable person (and no jury) would ever think silently following someone briefly constituted a threat of bodily harm. Tray was a thug. He wanted to be all gangsta like Twopack and Biggie Fats. He did it wrong.
 
2012-03-29 02:05:24 PM  

dittybopper: stebain: 9beers: relcec: if trayvon attacked first, what he did was reasonable under normal self defense theory because he reasonably feared an attack by zimmer.

Good point, now can you prove it?

Prove what? Either Martin attacked first or Zimmerman attacked first. We have evidence (911 tape and girlfriend phone call) that both were worried about what the other was up to. We have one who advanced the situation by seeking out the other. What is there to prove?

Intent. Did Zimmerman intend to do violence to Martin, or was his intent to find out what he was doing? Case 1 puts Zimmerman in legal jeopardy, case 2 doesn't.


That doesn't really answer what 9beers asked of relcec.

The intent doesn't matter as Martin cannot know that intent (would have been nice if Zimmerman would say "Neighborhood Watch!" or something while looking, dunno) and may have felt, reasonably in my view, that he had to defend himself from some weirdo looking for him for some unknown reason. The protection of the SYG law doesn't necessarily come from the intent and may come from that he put himself deeper into what he felt was a dangerous situation.
 
2012-03-29 02:06:30 PM  

Thunderpipes: The law completely disagrees with you. This is fact. I like the word choices too. "Stalk", "chase them down". Nice.


I think it fairly represents what the 2nd party might interpret your actions as.
 
2012-03-29 02:07:20 PM  
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/the-daily-caller-obtains-trayvon-mar tins-tweets/

Amusing.
 
2012-03-29 02:12:00 PM  

ChuDogg: to observe Martin's escape so he could direct the 911 dispatch.


Escape from what? The crime he just committed? The paranoid Zimmerman? It's one thing to describe a guy as suspicious, but he was labeling and following like he had committed a crime or was a criminal. Kid didn't do anything but LOOK suspicious to ZIMMERMAN. He shouldn't have to ESCAPE, he shouldn't be sought after by Zimmerman and be assumed as a criminal. Zimmerman was negligent, and this whole thing could have been avoided. Manslaughter.
 
2012-03-29 02:14:51 PM  

stebain: I gave you both scenarios. In each, Martin could be seen as defending himself.


If my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle. Speculating as to what happened is fun on the internet but investigators and prosecutors are held to a higher standard. If they had found evidence that Zimmerman was guilty of a crime, I'm sure he'd be facing charges by now. If going forward, that evidence is found, I'm sure he'll be charged.

If charges are filed, they're going to be manslaughter charges which carry a maximum of 15 years in jail. The mob will be fine with that, right?
 
2012-03-29 02:16:05 PM  

HAMMERTOE: Nancy Grace's Billowing Face Vents: You are missing a basic understanding of governance. And legislation, and enforcement. Nothing lofty about this concept. It is the social contract you subscribe to everyday you choose to live in this country.

Weird. I read stories in the news about people in poor neighborhoods "taking back their streets" from drug dealers, prostitutes, and gangs quite often. Never do I read that they need anybody's permission. Zimmerman didn't become a "vigilante" until Martin became a "criminal". When do you suppose that happened?


You have a broad and dangerously naive definition of the term vigilantism.

Armchair wannabe cops, who know little about the law. We need less of them, not more.
 
2012-03-29 02:16:15 PM  

stebain: Thunderpipes: The law completely disagrees with you. This is fact. I like the word choices too. "Stalk", "chase them down". Nice.

I think it fairly represents what the 2nd party might interpret your actions as.


UPS guy came to my house today. Drove up my driveway, walked right up to the door. Maybe I should have kicked his ass? I was not expecting a package today after all. Could have been a stalker, or a murderer. Someone walked by the house earlier too, did not recognize them. Perhaps they were here to murder me. Maybe I should have kicked their ass as well. I swear at the grocery store a shady looking teenager was walking behind me talking about skittles. He was a rapist, so I could kick his ass!

That is how dumb liberals are. So dumb you have to look down to look up.

If Traypack felt so threatened, why the hell didn't he, I dunno, run away? After all, the weight advantage you liberals all cry about surely means a 17 year old 120 pound kid can outrun a 350 pound whexican with a 50 caliber rifle?
 
2012-03-29 02:22:08 PM  

9beers: stebain: I gave you both scenarios. In each, Martin could be seen as defending himself.

If my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle. Speculating as to what happened is fun on the internet but investigators and prosecutors are held to a higher standard.

Then why are you here?

If they had found evidence that Zimmerman was guilty of a crime, I'm sure he'd be facing charges by now. If going forward, that evidence is found, I'm sure he'll be charged.

If charges are filed, they're going to be manslaughter charges which carry a maximum of 15 years in jail. The mob will be fine with that, right?

I would think negligent homicide. I don't know anything about the mob wishes, so please don't ask me to speculate.
 
2012-03-29 02:22:29 PM  

Thunderpipes: Tray was a thug. He wanted to be all gangsta like Twopack and Biggie Fats.


We get it. He's black.
 
2012-03-29 02:24:39 PM  

Thunderpipes: If Traypack felt so threatened, why the hell didn't he, I dunno, run away?


He did. Weird.

He probably didn't know Zimmerman was coming after him, since Z was in the car when he took off. Then suddenly he is there, feels friendly.

Nice you make this a political thing. Plenty of conservatives in here and elsewhere thinking Zimmerman isn't in the clear.
 
2012-03-29 02:25:52 PM  

Thunderpipes: UPS guy came to my house today. Drove up my driveway, walked right up to the door. Maybe I should have kicked his ass? I was not expecting a package today after all. Could have been a stalker, or a murderer. Someone walked by the house earlier too, did not recognize them. Perhaps they were here to murder me. Maybe I should have kicked their ass as well. I swear at the grocery store a shady looking teenager was walking behind me talking about skittles. He was a rapist, so I could kick his ass!


Yes, I see you are fairly well representing Zimmerman's mindset when he made the 911 call. Why do you then argue against Martin defending himself as well. Your inconsistency is confusing. You are Fark lumpy potatoes.
 
2012-03-29 02:26:27 PM  

superfudge73: What I guess probably happened was tough guy Zimmerman pulled out his pistol, told the kid to "stop or I'll shoot" the kid knew Zimmerman wasn't going to shoot so he got all gangsta on his ass, pulling up his shirt and yelling "What now foo!" then Zimmerman freaked out and shot him.

There are no angels or demons in real life, I'm sure they are/were both at fault. Zimmerman, an insecure douche-bag Internet tough guy (check out all my Glocks, I'm a real man) and Martin a "thug life" immature gangsta wannabe (like most teen boys these days) just tryin to represent, dawg! Skittles fo life!

The only problem is someone died.

Justice, whatever that means, is not going to bring back this kid, all that is going on now is useless. We need to drop it. I'm sure Zimmerman is going to regret this every day of his life, just like Martin's parents will regret they let their son run around at 2:30 in the morning acting all gangsta and shiat. However, any jail time, will likely be a death sentence for Zimmerman so no judge is going to send a guy to his death unless he knows exactly what happened.

That will never happen.


2:30am? it was actually 7:30ish pm.
 
2012-03-29 02:27:08 PM  

stebain: Then why are you here?


Because I'm not an investigator or prosecutor and like to speculate on the internet.
 
2012-03-29 02:28:25 PM  

relcec: stalk someone at night, in a car, then get out and chase them down for no reason and you should damn well expect a fight, because reasonable people will expect you mean to do them harm in those circumstances. everytime.


That's simply untrue.

You are arguing that Martin had a right to use force in self-defense, because Zimmerman was the aggressor.

There's simply no evidence of that.

Simply because you think someone might do you harm is insufficient grounds to justify the use of force in self-defense.

Martin had the same right to "stand his ground" as Zimmerman did, but the SYG rule only means that Martin did not have a duty to retreat, or attempt to retreat, before using self-defensive force. However, Martin still needed to have grounds to use defensive force in the first place, regardless of the (now non-existent) duty to retreat.

However, there is no evidence, from any of the reported witness statements, that Zimmerman presented an imminent threat of harm to Martin. There may have been grounds for Martin to be suspicious, to feel nervous, and if we believe the lawyer-coached girlfriend, that Martin did in fact feel nervous. But Martin must have reasonably believed the threat to him was imminent, and there is no evidence to support that conclusion.

You could, I guess, imagine a scenario where Zimmerman ran after Martin with his gun drawing, yelling "I'M GONNA GIT YOU, YOU FILTHY NO-GOOD NI**ER!!! HERE COMES THE PAIN!!!1!1!," if that makes you feel better, and helps you rationalize your emotions. But if so, then you are clearly filling in the gaps in your knowledge (even though such knowledge, for all of us, is being filtered through a notoriously unreliable media) by simply assuming whatever you need to assume in order to defend your initial non-rational beliefs.
 
2012-03-29 02:30:09 PM  

stebain: Thunderpipes: If Traypack felt so threatened, why the hell didn't he, I dunno, run away?

He did. Weird.

He probably didn't know Zimmerman was coming after him, since Z was in the car when he took off. Then suddenly he is there, feels friendly.

Nice you make this a political thing. Plenty of conservatives in here and elsewhere thinking Zimmerman isn't in the clear.


Haha. I make this a political thing? Nice.

Have not seen one intelligent person who thinks, from the actual available evidence, that Zimmerman did anything wrong. But, since I am on Fark, I am going to start acting like a liberal and just make up whatever my emotions tell me to.

Hmm, how does this work...... Tray was a Black Panther and was carrying a howitzer and high on meth while eating a live crocodile!! It's true because you can't prove it's not!!

That's what you sound like.
 
2012-03-29 02:30:53 PM  
Wait, I thought zimmerman was supposed to be a fatass?
 
2012-03-29 02:32:15 PM  

9beers: stebain: Then why are you here?

Because I'm not an investigator or prosecutor and like to speculate on the internet.


Yeah, me too. So why are you here if speculating isn't an acceptable action?

I gave you both scenarios. As a person not involved in the case legally or in an investigative position, care to speculate on what in each scenario makes Martin irrational and Zimmerman rational (entering a situation he seems to consider dangerous).
 
2012-03-29 02:36:41 PM  

Thunderpipes: Haha. I make this a political thing? Nice.


You keep attributing disagreement with you as a "Libs" thing, regardless of the author.

Have not seen one intelligent person who thinks, from the actual available evidence, that Zimmerman did anything wrong.

Zimmerman did mostly things that were fine. While he shouldn't have called 911 (use the non emergency line for someone looking creepy in the neighborhood), that wasn't terrible. He probably should have actually said something to Martin while still out on the street. If he felt that his life was in danger, even the shooting was reasonable. I've always argued that he has no authority of SYG because he believed the kid dangerous and put himself in the situation. I don't think he set out to kill some kid that night.
Tracking the kid, if you felt he was dangerous, is what I feel he did wrong. I don't think necessarily that Martin would be wrong in attacking someone that he felt was out to do him harm.
 
2012-03-29 02:37:14 PM  
I keep hearing Martin described as being "in fear of being attacked." What person in fear of attack, deliberately goes into a more secluded, less well-lit area? That is not the behavior of a victim; it is the behavior of an attacker.

As for my definition of a "vigilante", I would have to say that a vigilante is someone who appoints their self Judge, Jury and Punisher. (I would say "Executioner", but not all punishments result in death.) So, like I said, for Zimmerman to be a "vigilante", Martin had to be a "criminal". As Zimmerman his self stated that Martin was only a "suspect", what did Martin do to cross the line?
 
2012-03-29 02:37:36 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: GreatGlavinsGhost: I know I'm late to ask this, but didn't eyewitnesses say there was a guy wearing red on top of another guy?

Isn't Zimmerman wearing a red jacket in this video?

/I know, I know, the cops let him change his clothes.
//Plus his dad was a judge.

It's only red because it's soaked in his own blood from his broken nose and horrible head injuries.

/duh


Oh yeah, huh? How did I miss that?

Opps! My bad!
 
2012-03-29 02:38:30 PM  

Thunderpipes: Hmm, how does this work...... Tray was a Black Panther and was carrying a howitzer and high on meth while eating a live crocodile!! It's true because you can't prove it's not!!


I'm not really sure what your point was here. I've made no accusations on Zimmerman that aren't taken directly from the evidence we have been privy to. I even refuse to get into whether he is a racist or not and, frankly, still think he said "punks". I don't think it would be relevant as to whether the shooting is justified or not.
 
2012-03-29 02:42:27 PM  

HAMMERTOE: I keep hearing Martin described as being "in fear of being attacked." What person in fear of attack, deliberately goes into a more secluded, less well-lit area? That is not the behavior of a victim; it is the behavior of an attacker.


Ever heard of the term "hiding"? You're reaching on that one.

As for my definition of a "vigilante", I would have to say that a vigilante is someone who appoints their self Judge, Jury and Punisher. (I would say "Executioner", but not all punishments result in death.)
A vigilante metes out punishment outside the rule of law.

So, like I said, for Zimmerman to be a "vigilante", Martin had to be a "criminal". As Zimmerman his self stated that Martin was only a "suspect", what did Martin do to cross the line?
I guess it would only matter if Zimmerman felt he was a criminal or part of a criminal crowd. The crowd that "always gets away with it" type of crowd. You know the ones.
 
2012-03-29 02:44:35 PM  
Even better, Martin was less than 500' from "home". Why stay on the line with his girlfriend if he was really in fear? If you were that close to home and in fear of being followed, wouldn't you have been calling home to get one of your parents to come meet you? Or why not stop at a neighbor's house, knock on the door, and ask them to call police as soon as they answer your knock? This gives you a witness, summons help, and most importantly, stops you from being alone. Martin did none of these things. Why didn't he want a witness?
 
2012-03-29 02:46:18 PM  

stebain: I guess it would only matter if Zimmerman felt he was a criminal or part of a criminal crowd. The crowd that "always gets away with it" type of crowd. You know the ones.


But Zimmerman deliberately called the ones that "always get away with it"!
 
2012-03-29 03:00:40 PM  
I keep seeing people (well, one person) throw about the idea that being pursued or followed does not create in the pursuee a right to use force. Too bad Florida law disagrees with them.

Under Florida Statute 776.012:
A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force

To defend oneself in Florida, all that is required is if the person defending oneself reasonably believed that self-defense is necessary to protect oneself against someone else's imminent use of unlawful force. If somebody follows you through the neighborhood, first in their car and subsequently on foot and you reasonably believed in that you are in danger, then Florida law says you can defend yourself by any means necessary except deadly force.

So, even if Trayvon was the first person to use force (and that is not proven one way or another by the evidence at hand), he would've been justified to use force against Zimmerman so long as he reasonably believed such force is necessary to defend himself.
 
2012-03-29 03:04:07 PM  
Okay, that last was just stupid. The fact remains: Zimmerman followed where Martin led. Martin had no idea Zimmerman was armed, and led Zimmerman into a dark, relative secluded area. Martin stayed on the phone with his girlfriend, rather than summoning nearby adult help, which says a lot about the real state of his "fear" of being attacked.
 
2012-03-29 03:08:47 PM  

HAMMERTOE: Okay, that last was just stupid. The fact remains: Zimmerman followed where Martin led. Martin had no idea Zimmerman was armed, and led Zimmerman into a dark, relative secluded area. Martin stayed on the phone with his girlfriend, rather than summoning nearby adult help, which says a lot about the real state of his "fear" of being attacked.


It should be mentioned that the "dark, relatively secluded area" was also on the way to his father's apartment.
 
2012-03-29 03:08:51 PM  

HAMMERTOE: Even better, Martin was less than 500' from "home". Why stay on the line with his girlfriend if he was really in fear? If you were that close to home and in fear of being followed, wouldn't you have been calling home to get one of your parents to come meet you? Or why not stop at a neighbor's house, knock on the door, and ask them to call police as soon as they answer your knock? This gives you a witness, summons help, and most importantly, stops you from being alone. Martin did none of these things. Why didn't he want a witness?


I don't think anyone's accusing Martin of being smart.

Also, people do dumb things when they get nervous and/or panic.

The only conclusion I've come to in this matter so far is that Zimmerman's story seems to have some holes in it. But, we also don't have all the evidence.

Things Zimmerman did wrong:

1) Leave his vehicle. This is especially relevant since the dispatcher asked him not to follow Martin. (Not an order, I realize, but not listening to the dispatcher is pants-on-head stupid.)

2) Carrying a gun. There was another article on Fark (last week) regarding the neighborhood watch, and the company that the community brought in to discuss how to set up a neighborhood watch said: "Rule #1: no weapons while on patrol."

I would be willing to bet that Zimmerman perpetrated #1 above because he was perpetrating #2 above. He felt safe with a potential confrontation because he was armed, and that is just asking for trouble in any scenario (especially if the guy he's following is armed with something a bit heavier than a bag of Skittles).

Whether he's guilty or not at this point, his life is pretty well farked.
 
2012-03-29 03:14:12 PM  

impaler: Wait, I thought zimmerman was supposed to be a fatass?


He is. I'm the same height and weight, and I'm a fatass.

He's just not as fatass as we originally assumed, based upon piss-poor media reporting.
 
2012-03-29 03:14:37 PM  
Thunderpipes SmartestFunniest 2012-03-29 02:03:53 PM

The law completely disagrees with you. This is fact. I like the word choices too. "Stalk", "chase them down". Nice.

The law says that if some random person starts following me anywhere, I have no special rights whatsoever unless they actually attack me. They can even yell at me, call me names, I still cannot attack them. Tray's duty (as you guys keep saying Zimmermans' was once attacked) was to ignore him, talk to him, or simply leave. He attacked. He died. Oops. No reasonable person (and no jury) would ever think silently following someone briefly constituted a threat of bodily harm. Tray was a thug. He wanted to be all gangsta like Twopack and Biggie Fats. He did it wrong.



you don't jack shiat about the law.
you don't have to wait until you get punched in the head to defend yourself. you don't even have to wait until they cock their fist first. you don't have to wait until someone slaps you or even so much as spits on your pant leg to take action. All that matter is whether a reasonable person in the given situation would have felt the physical threat was imminent and the preemptive response was proportional.

a strange man creeping up in his car on a random person lawfully walking down the street to get to their residence, then exiting his car and chasing that person down the street and behind houses in the dark of night would put any reasonable person in fear of a physical confrontation soon to be initiated by that unknown aggressor, and thus proportional self defense in that situation is reasonable.

trayvon is allowed to use reasonable force as anyone else would have been before zimmerman even tried to lay one finger on him.
this is the only conservative way to view the interplay between our individual rights regarding autonomy, and our responsibilities to each other and in opposition to one another in a society where we all must coexist, and it is also happens to be the law.
 
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