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(AlterNet)   Ex-Mormon on why the Church is not as popular with the young as one would think (hint: they know how to find "information" on the "internet.")   (alternet.org ) divider line
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4893 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Mar 2012 at 5:19 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-28 12:55:10 PM  
tell me more of this "the internet" that you speak of. perhaps i shall utilize "the google" to browse such information.
 
2012-03-28 01:12:32 PM  
That's a pretty interesting article, I thought.

/not the submitter
 
2012-03-28 01:22:00 PM  
Good article, and dead accurate. What I fear most, living here in the Mountain West, is that the Mormons will become a black hole of smug if Rmoney is elected. It's bad enough right now.
 
2012-03-28 01:34:32 PM  
And by "information", subby means "porn"?
 
2012-03-28 01:51:00 PM  
That is a really informative interview, and does a much better job talking about Mormonism from an outside perspective than I think I've seen before. It really is a good article on the postion of the faith with regard to Mitt Romney and Harry Reid.

Good reading, thanks for the link.
 
2012-03-28 02:14:06 PM  
I can honestly say that I've never found myself overly concerned with the potential political ramifications of a Mormon president, at least no more than any sort of moderately religious president. Granted, gay marriage on the national level doesn't stand a chance while there's a Mormon in the White House, which sucks, but that movement was always going to start at the state level anyway.

I am, however, scared farking shiatless of a Christian Dominionist like Santorum or Perry getting their hands on the button. Romney may be a damn windsock when it comes to the issues, and his religion may be strange and confusing to me, but at least I'm relatively confident that he's not literally insane. I cannot say the same about the Dominionists.
 
2012-03-28 02:16:14 PM  
all that Q & A, but not a damn thing about them undies. notice they didn't mention warren jeffs either.
 
2012-03-28 02:21:15 PM  
Maybe they're Googling things like "Mountain Meadow"
 
2012-03-28 02:26:03 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Good article, and dead accurate. What I fear most, living here in the Mountain West, is that the Mormons will become a black hole of smug if Rmoney is elected. It's bad enough right now.


Could you imagine if Jimmer started playing more? You'd never hear the end of it.
 
2012-03-28 02:29:09 PM  
You saying Justin Beiber is more popular than Jesus Christ?
 
2012-03-28 02:30:32 PM  

GleeUnit: Romney may be a damn windsock when it comes to the issues, and his religion may be strange and confusing to me, but at least I'm relatively confident that he's not literally insane.


He's not a bad guy. He's just not . . . principled. Yarg. That sounds like an insult, but it's not. He's a politician and he's a fairly good manager. He's certainly not as bad as some of the bosses that I've personally had over the years.

And that applies to his religion as well as his politics. He's not going to go power mad and reinstitute forced bigamist marriages, he's just not going to sign a gay marriage law at the federal level.
 
2012-03-28 02:32:21 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Maybe they're Googling things like "Mountain Meadow"


Nah, the Mormons are rank amateurs when it comes to a history of religious massacres/atrocities. I mean, most religions have competed in that particular sport over the years, but if the Catholics, for example, are considered to be among the all-time major league leaders of the sport, the Mormons wouldn't even be able to put together a decent tee-ball team.
 
2012-03-28 02:34:17 PM  
It's actually pretty rare to come across an interview that is that well-written and that informative. I actually know a fair amount about Mormon history and theology, and I still found lots of new things there. Thanks subs!
 
2012-03-28 02:42:35 PM  

JerseyTim: Could you imagine if Jimmer started playing more? You'd never hear the end of it.


Meh, I dunno. There have been plenty of noteworthy Mormon professional sports figures over the years (in baseball alone, for example, there's Roy Halladay, Jacoby Ellsbury, Harmon Killebrew, J.T. Snow, Jeff Kent, Wally Joyner, Dale Murphy, and plenty of others), and the Mormons haven't really made a big deal out of it.
 
2012-03-28 02:43:10 PM  
This made me laugh: Ezra Taft Benson, who later became president of the church, once said over the pulpit at a church General Conference that the Civil Rights movement was a communist plot.
 
2012-03-28 02:43:34 PM  

Cyberluddite: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Maybe they're Googling things like "Mountain Meadow"

Nah, the Mormons are rank amateurs when it comes to a history of religious massacres/atrocities. I mean, most religions have competed in that particular sport over the years, but if the Catholics, for example, are considered to be among the all-time major league leaders of the sport, the Mormons wouldn't even be able to put together a decent tee-ball team.


Well if you consider anti-theists a religion in the theoretical sense that they believe in the common belief that there shouldn't be any religion then they are definetely #1.
 
2012-03-28 02:50:20 PM  
No more hokey than any other religion is
 
2012-03-28 02:55:21 PM  

Dead for Tax Reasons: No more hokey than any other religion is


No, they're pretty goddamn hokey all right.
 
2012-03-28 02:58:18 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Maybe they're Googling things like "Mountain Meadow"


Young Mormons are well-aware of events like the Mountain Meadows Massacre. They don't generally see it as something they need to account or be responsible for, just as members's of today's U.S. Army don't see the immediate need to be responsible for or account for the My Lai massacre in Vietnam.
 
2012-03-28 03:05:23 PM  

Eating Old People to Save Social Security: Well if you consider anti-theists a religion in the theoretical sense that they believe in the common belief that there shouldn't be any religion then they are definetely #1.


Such as who?

The only anti-theist group ever to rise to power was Communist China and Russia. Their numbers pale in comparison to basically any religious group's murders.

Nice troll though.
 
2012-03-28 03:11:26 PM  
To be fair, I've met more Ex-Mormons over the last few years, than practicing Mormons. Mind you, most of the Ex-Mormons I meet, are women. Met very few Ex-Mormon men, but a ton of women who've left the Church, and a few who are on the edge, but stay for their kids, and as soon as they grow up, they're out.

If you lose the women folk, and the young folk, you're pretty much done as a faith, doomed to slow attrition...
 
2012-03-28 03:21:53 PM  

hubiestubert: To be fair, I've met more Ex-Mormons over the last few years, than practicing Mormons. Mind you, most of the Ex-Mormons I meet, are women. Met very few Ex-Mormon men, but a ton of women who've left the Church, and a few who are on the edge, but stay for their kids, and as soon as they grow up, they're out.

If you lose the women folk, and the young folk, you're pretty much done as a faith, doomed to slow attrition...


Unless you can recruit. Look at the Jehovah's Witnesses. 33% retention rate of those born into the faith, but still surviving.
 
2012-03-28 03:53:58 PM  
I would think their recruiting play on Broadway would have the kids joining up in droves!!
images.hitfix.comimages.hitfix.comimages.hitfix.com
 
2012-03-28 04:57:10 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Dead for Tax Reasons: No more hokey than any other religion is

No, they're pretty goddamn hokey all right.


all religions are founded in delusion.
all new religions are consider cults and dangerous in their early days. Look at the persecution of the early christians and the never ending persecution of the jews.

mormons used to be considered complete wack jobs, but then they let blacks in and they got a little less insane.
scientology is probably the current "complete wack jobs", but if the survive another 50 years, they will just be a regular, but small, religion.

/I am more concerned about the current new cults. veganism, recyclism and save the planetism
 
2012-03-28 05:01:15 PM  
That was a pretty good article. Nice find, Subby
 
2012-03-28 05:04:46 PM  

namatad: all religions are founded in delusion.


Yeah, yeah yeah. What the fark ever. Mormonism was founded by a complete shyster.
 
2012-03-28 05:06:43 PM  

namatad: /I am more concerned about the current new cults. veganism, recyclism and save the planetism


Yeah, those are some really scary people all right. People that don't like to eat animals. People that like to recycle. People that want to conserve the planet. Hoo boy. Those people really make me scared.
 
2012-03-28 05:21:17 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Yeah, yeah yeah. What the fark ever. Mormonism was founded by a complete shyster.


I'm personally of the opinion that if Jesus had walked around with his disciples at a time when government documents (like the ones that show that Joseph Smith had been convicted for fraud) survived in great numbers, we would learn that he didn't do most of the things now attributed to him.

I can't prove that, but what I'm saying is basically: same con artist, different centuries. One was a whole lot further in the past, so we can't investigate him as easily.

/dons asbestos suit
 
2012-03-28 05:26:54 PM  
Are ex-Mormons like most ex-Catholics? I.e. they give up on practicing the religion, but still feel immense guilt and stress for the rest of their lives, and will always feel like they should be going back?
 
2012-03-28 05:29:56 PM  

Lando Lincoln: namatad: all religions are founded in delusion.

Yeah, yeah yeah. What the fark ever. Mormonism was founded by a complete shyster.


Yeah, religions founded centuries ago are silly enough, but Mormonism and Scientology should be painfullly obvious cults that were started by con artists.
 
2012-03-28 05:34:53 PM  
Google "Provo soak"
 
2012-03-28 05:35:28 PM  
blood atonement, polygamy, dark skin a sign of sin...

they got it all, baby
 
2012-03-28 05:37:54 PM  
I'm an ex-mormon as well. I left in 2000 (resigned my membership). I used a combination of the interet, history books, church history books (you'd be surprised what is there vs what they teach). After 6 weeks of intensive homework, I left.

I am wary of this charge that young people are leaving and never returning. My uncles and aunts all 'left' the religion in their 20s and sometimes in their 30s. They all returned. Why? It is hard to remove that brainwashing. And it is brainwashing- they repeat the same thing over and over and over and over again. I did this as a young boy, a teenager, a missionary and as a married, active elder.

Oh- and why is this in the politics tab?
 
2012-03-28 05:39:44 PM  

Lando Lincoln: namatad: /I am more concerned about the current new cults. veganism, recyclism and save the planetism

Yeah, those are some really scary people all right. People that don't like to eat animals. People that like to recycle. People that want to conserve the planet. Hoo boy. Those people really make me scared.


That wacko Michelle Obama wants us to have gardens. GARDENS!
 
2012-03-28 05:41:51 PM  

Nadie_AZ: I'm an ex-mormon as well. I left in 2000 (resigned my membership). I used a combination of the interet, history books, church history books (you'd be surprised what is there vs what they teach). After 6 weeks of intensive homework, I left.

I am wary of this charge that young people are leaving and never returning. My uncles and aunts all 'left' the religion in their 20s and sometimes in their 30s. They all returned. Why? It is hard to remove that brainwashing. And it is brainwashing- they repeat the same thing over and over and over and over again. I did this as a young boy, a teenager, a missionary and as a married, active elder.

Oh- and why is this in the politics tab?


All organized religion is political.
 
2012-03-28 05:43:24 PM  

GleeUnit: I can honestly say that I've never found myself overly concerned with the potential political ramifications of a Mormon president, at least no more than any sort of moderately religious president. Granted, gay marriage on the national level doesn't stand a chance while there's a Mormon in the White House, which sucks, but that movement was always going to start at the state level anyway.

I am, however, scared farking shiatless of a Christian Dominionist like Santorum or Perry getting their hands on the button. Romney may be a damn windsock when it comes to the issues, and his religion may be strange and confusing to me, but at least I'm relatively confident that he's not literally insane. I cannot say the same about the Dominionists.


Don't let Romney fool you.

He's on the same page as the rest of them just perhaps not the "true believer" Santorum is.

He is part of the same confluence of religion, politics, and business that is slowly winding it's way towards what Gingrich and Santorum are voicing. Pat Robertson asked them to stop telling the truth about their beliefs because they would never get elected if they outright stated they want.

Romney wisely skipped the Iowa Family Forum where the candidates tried to out Domionist each other, because despite all his other gaffes, his handlers knew he was the candidate and didn't want him having to out Christian the others there.

He is still a member of the modern GOP though, and they have built this system upon religion and business intertwining with government to give advantages and squash the competition.
 
2012-03-28 05:43:40 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Good article, and dead accurate. What I fear most, living here in the Mountain West, is that the Mormons will become a black hole of smug if Rmoney is elected. It's bad enough right now.


I just spent a couple hours in the SLC airport. There really ARE a lot of Mormons there. All dressed up with jackets and ties. And many of them using pay phones all over the airport, for some reason.
 
2012-03-28 05:43:49 PM  
suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com
 
2012-03-28 05:44:09 PM  
If mainstream religions would embrace their old, discarded mystical roots with hallucinogenic drugs, you might see more people coming back to the church. As it stands now, dogma with a sip of wine and a dry wafer simply doesn't cut it.

/then again, having the religious tripping on 'shrooms and DMT would crush the current church out of existence
 
2012-03-28 05:45:11 PM  

Lando Lincoln: namatad: all religions are founded in delusion.

Yeah, yeah yeah. What the fark ever. Mormonism was founded by a complete shyster.


Uh, a comprehensive list or religions that weren't, please. Remember, L. Ron founded a cult so that doesn't count.
 
2012-03-28 05:45:36 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Oh- and why is this in the politics tab?


I'd guess, Rmoney?

My business partner is a recovering Mormon. She says it's like any other drug, you will never be truly free of its influence. Her mother was very intelligent and very Mormon, able to rationalize anything the church said.
 
2012-03-28 05:48:34 PM  
Tal Bachmann's thoughts on leaving the Mormon Church. I think it's pretty telling that Mormon priests and bishops know that what they are peddling is pure bullshiat and the only reason they stay in the church is because they think their teachings will make its followers better people.
 
2012-03-28 05:48:59 PM  
Best-selling evangelical apologist Josh McDowell sympathizes with this problem:

"I made the statement off and on for 10-11 years that the abundance of knowledge, the abundance of information, will not lead to certainty; it will lead to pervasive skepticism. And, folks, that's exactly what has happened. It's like this. How do you really know, there is so much out there... This abundance has led to skepticism. And then the Internet has leveled the playing field."

- Christian Post article (new window), "Apologist Josh McDowell: Internet the Greatest Threat to Christians"

/ Yes, I know that the article on Mormons is not actually about the internet. Welcome to Fark, yada yada
// Also, I've got to say that some of the paraphrasing and editorializing in the Christian Post article seems...amusingly subversive
 
2012-03-28 05:49:56 PM  
Information? You mean like Link (new window)?
 
2012-03-28 05:51:59 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Good article, and dead accurate. What I fear most, living here in the Mountain West, is that the Mormons will become a black hole of smug if Rmoney is elected. It's bad enough right now.


Oi, just imagine if a Catholic got in there. Be the end of days. A true Pope puppet that one would be! Poor bastard would probably get himself shot.
 
2012-03-28 05:53:54 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Oh- and why is this in the politics tab?

PonceAlyosha: All organized religion is political.


And because Drew still won't cough up a religion tab.
 
2012-03-28 05:54:42 PM  
What, was the obvious tag on a missionary trip or something?
 
2012-03-28 05:55:48 PM  

Somacandra: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Maybe they're Googling things like "Mountain Meadow"

Young Mormons are well-aware of events like the Mountain Meadows Massacre. They don't generally see it as something they need to account or be responsible for, just as members's of today's U.S. Army don't see the immediate need to be responsible for or account for the My Lai massacre in Vietnam.


As an American, I see that we do have a responsibility for the Mai Lai massacre, and we have a responsibility to try to prevent any such event from happening again. I can see why a soldier would not feel that way because he is training for different wars, although all people who become soldiers should go through a school system that teaches them of our nation's responsibility in the Mai Lai massacre. But, as a member of a current standing army, the soldier doesn't bear responsibility for Mai Lai. As citizens, we all do.

It's interesting that you think a young Mormon's relationship is more that of soldier in, rather than citizen of, the church. I guess that's not unusual. Very few churches have or want citizen members. They want people who will respond unquestioningly to authority.
 
2012-03-28 05:57:12 PM  
This is the biggie for me:

The church also officially discriminated against anyone who had "even one drop of Negro blood" until 1979. Prior to that, black men were not allowed to have any authority within the church, interracial marriages were not permitted in the temple, and black people could not lead a prayer in church, among other things.

Keep in mind that Mitt Romney was 32 years old in 1979. The Mormon church was officially racist prior to 1979, and Romney, as an adult, belonged to said racist organization. So, a member of a former racist organization is now running against the country's first black President. Yeah, that's not awkward at all.

Obama won't bring it up, considering he has had his own religious troubles. But I'll bet a debate moderator will.
 
2012-03-28 05:57:34 PM  

abb3w: Nadie_AZ: Oh- and why is this in the politics tab?
PonceAlyosha: All organized religion is political.

And because Drew still won't cough up a religion tab.


How would that make sense? All you'd have would be stories about boobs and beer and Thor.
 
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