treesloth: InfamousBLT: I hate getting stuck behind Mustangs in my GTI when I'm driving about. Are they faster on the straight? Of course, no question there, I'll never argue that. Then they get to a sharp turn and have to slow down to granny speed while I come flying up behind them because I don't effing want to slow down, because I don't have to.

Maybe they just don't care to go through at full speed? The Mustang has absolutely no problem turning, and quite well. Randy Pobst did a side-by-side comparison of the 2011 Mustang GT and the BMW M3 at Willow Springs. The M3 won by .09 seconds. Just to be clear, that's nine-hundredths of a second, less than one tenth. So, I suppose you might consider that the M3 is only .09 seconds better than the worst suspension in the world on a car. You might also consider Randy to be a crappy driver. So be it, I suppose. But, unless you do, there's no reasonable standard by which the Mustang's road handling can be criticized so harshly. It's a remarkably sweet setup. Maybe all of those Mustangs out there ruining your day just don't feel any particular need to take corners at the limit of grip.

Idiot Farkers just hate anything American. Almost all drive piece of garbage hippie foreign cars. 2008 GT convertible here with the Roush supercharger and exhaust, beautiful car, handles fine for what I need, best sounding car around. Even Vermont hippies driving Priuses compliment me on it. Yes, a go-kart can handle better than me on a Super Mario track. I don't drive go-karts. Be interesting to see how the new GT-500 and the 550 hp Camaro shake things up. To get the equal of a car like mine or those, you will pay a hell of a lot more, and get a much smaller car if you go foreign.

We had some 80 degree days last week. Had two of the kids with me taking a drive with the top down, was an amazingly simple way to enjoy the day.

Bf+: Also steers like a cow.

Reminds me of the time that Intel announced a 1 GHz PC processor.
The local news went on the street, asking people if they felt they needed a 1 GHz computer.

I'd rather have a 1 THz machine! Give me a break!

twfeline: Reminds me of the time that Intel announced a 1 GHz PC processor.
The local news went on the street, asking people if they felt they needed a 1 GHz computer.

I'd rather have a 1 THz machine! Give me a break!

I remember the day. It was my first computer. I sold $2499 in stock to buy it. Stock would have been worth $1 million today. OK i lie. $10 million

DubyaHater: [www.allfordmustangs.com image 500x354]

This is how I add power

2 things.

1. Subaru hood scoops are almost always functional...unlike Rustangs
2. Subaru designed their wing to actually provide the downforce required for the speeds that the STI reaches.

Thunderpipes: Idiot Farkers just hate anything American. Almost all drive piece of garbage hippie foreign cars. 2008 GT convertible here with the Roush supercharger and exhaust, beautiful car, handles fine for what I need, best sounding car around. Even Vermont hippies driving Priuses compliment me on it. Yes, a go-kart can handle better than me on a Super Mario track. I don't drive go-karts. Be interesting to see how the new GT-500 and the 550 hp Camaro shake things up. To get the equal of a car like mine or those, you will pay a hell of a lot more, and get a much smaller car if you go foreign.

We had some 80 degree days last week. Had two of the kids with me taking a drive with the top down, was an amazingly simple way to enjoy the day.

Dang, nice. Yeah, 2011 Altima. It's got... umm...

/treesloth hangs head, shuffles away with a sad...

If I had that much money to waste, I'd spend it on one of these instead:


Might not be as fast as a 'stang, but I wouldn't be afraid of trading a little paint in rush hour traffic!

Gleeman: If I had that much money to waste, I'd spend it on one of these instead:
[image.trucktrend.com image 640x470]

Might not be as fast as a 'stang, but I wouldn't be afraid of trading a little paint in rush hour traffic!

And if someone cuts you off in traffic, you machine gun their car in half and roll right over it. Excellent.

steamingpile:

You know how I know you are full of shiat? You included british in there and they havent made a decent sports car in years, unless you are trying to count the mini as a sports car and did you purposefully ignore my link where the GT VS BMW 3 was essentially a dead heat? Oh wait it wasnt, since the BMW was a lot more than the GT I would say it won, so much for the germans, and sure italian is a lot better but you will pay a lot for that honor.

I am guessing you cant drive a car with real power or when under adverse conditions, knowing how to control a car in corners is a gift so dont feel bad about it......

The British haven't made a decent sports car in years? Hmm, let's see what I've driven during the last two years

Aston DB9, Lotus Exige, Marlin 5, Bowler Nemesis, Jag XK, and the Vauxhall Corsa VXR. All great cars that are better than the 'stang GT, even the hatchback Corsa. Not as fast in a straight line I'm sure and If you're in a hurry to get to a Reno brothel, the Mustang the car for you. However Ford never improve the suspension to go along with their power upgrades. Thank god Cadillac have started getting their act together. As for the BMW link, I think the reviewer fell into the trap that many Mustang drivers do, which is they start believing they're Steve McQueen. The M3 isn't the spitting monster it once was, but it's still a decent coupe. It's slightly better handling than the Mustang on a track, but a lot better on a twisty mountain road. The best M-division effort is the M5. That's legendary. However neither the GT or the M3 can't compare to any of the Mercedes performance coupes, nor the Audi R8 or any of the Porsches. Ford is for leaving a noisy trail of smoke and burnt tire at a set of traffic lights. The ordinary Mustang is better than the GT, as it's not trying too hard. It's something to be seen in, not channel the spirit of Ayrton Senna.

The thing is, none of that matters as the best sports car in the world is the Nissan GT-R. Cost to performance is astonishing, and it's a damn nice place to be sitting in. The Civic Type-R is decent too, but the seats are designed for three year olds.

InfamousBLT: I just don't understand Mustangs. At all.

I would love to have one of these:

it's faster on Laguna Seca than a BMW M3 or Audi R8 (new window)

But for now, I'll just have to get my street kicks with my '65 stang-

And my track kicks on this -

Death_Poot: If I was gonna throw that kind of money at a Mustang, it would be one of these, if you could find one for sale:

[67mustangblog.com image 450x301]

/Super Snake

That's sexy as hell. That's what a Mustang should be. That looks like a criminal drives it. The new ones seem a bit too softened for the sake of the baby boomers.

Slaves2Darkness: Hell yeah! I'm all for giving idiots bigger and faster toys so they can splatter themselves all over the highway.

Everyone that i have ever seen with a mustang had some kind of ego/douche issue. Including my former classmate who wrapped himself around a tree and lost both his legs.

InfamousBLT: Oh come on, how many people actually buy the GOOD Mustangs?
No. Most people buy the shiatty regular Mustangs and prattle on about how great their car is. Its stupid, because they are overpriced pieces of junk with a large engine under the hood.

Now if you're talking about a GT, the nice one, then ... you're still an idiot, because it's still an overpriced piece of shiat compared to other cars in its price range. So it produces similar results to an M3 at the same cost and has NONE of the creature comforts or class of an M3 and is worse to drive every day (which is how most people drive their cars). Its like an M3, but worse...so why would you buy one unless you're a tard? Plus the GT is difficult to drive. Sure, some ultra uber driver can drive it as fast as an M3, but CAN YOU? Nope.

Without really addressing your (lack of) factual basis, let's just look at your internal logic. You call the GT "the nice one". Ok, so that's presumably not "the shiatty regular" Mustang, making "the shiatty regular" Mustang the base 3.7-liter 305 HP V-6. That's what all these darned Mustang owners that are so determined to ruin your life are calling the large engine? Not the 5.0 V8? I think you skipped a track there somewhere. Probably because you're constantly under attack by those Mustang owners, holding you up in turns and prattling on about their cars!

Now, in what universe does the GT cost the same as the M3? In that same comparison I cited, the costs are $60,575 and $30,495 for base models, $67,025 and $40,275 as tested. That's pretty substantial.

As for whether I can match the M3 in the Mustang, you have no idea and anything I say will be distrusted. So, consider instead that the non-pro driver in the same review got times of 92.07 sec and 91.52 sec on the same course in the same cars on the same day. That's about half a second difference.

Now, if you like the M3 better for reasons that you just can't define, that's fine. It's your money to spend. But so far, the only things you've said in criticizing the Mustang that aren't purely personal preference are pretty well contradicted by fact.

I would love to have one of these...


and FOX NEWS even gives it the glorious 'Best Car to Survive a Zombie Apocalypse' award.

/ FAUX News article

//Manufacture's website

sid244: I would love to have one of these...
[a57.foxnews.com image 640x359]

and FOX NEWS even gives it the glorious 'Best Car to Survive a Zombie Apocalypse' award.

/ FAUX News article

//Manufacture's website

Might I also recommend the Marauder? Top Gear did its usual highly scientific, impartial test of one and I kinda want one now...

LemSkroob: Slaves2Darkness: Hell yeah! I'm all for giving idiots bigger and faster toys so they can splatter themselves all over the highway.

Everyone that i have ever seen with a mustang had some kind of ego/douche issue. Including my former classmate who wrapped himself around a tree and lost both his legs.

Bad time to point out I had a '79 with a 302 V-8? Not a douche and my penis is above average, I just wanted something fast.

/loved that car, particularly since the previous owner had stripped it of all the enviro crap and put a dual exhaust on it
//funniest moment involved getting passed by some douche in a Charger at about 105 mph on the freeway and taking off after him...like the proverbial dog that caught the car I had no clue what to do next, so at around 115 mph I got close to him and waveed at him in his rear view mirror and slowed the hell down
///sold her because I was moving to California and to say it wouldn't have passed the emissions test is understatement
////damn it

I was wondering when Thunderpants was going to stop yelling at liberal muslum clouds long enough to talk about real 'merican muscle cars! And yes, I do drive a couple of "piece of garbage hippy foreign cars" including a 45 years-old '68 912 targa, one with ...whatzt called?? Oh yea, independent rear suspension. Also a 26 years-old hippy Westy van that also has IRS - as they all did - since 1968! Americans can, and often do build a few decent and sometimes exceptional cars, but so does everyone else nowadays. All the world also builds POS crap that should have never been designed. But after years of producing POS after POS here while Japan learned everything about quality from Real American Edward Deming, many Americans went for quality, durability and gas mileage over shoddy chrome style, 12 mpg and constant breakdowns. Yelling at Americans for buying foreign - and for not wanting to get burned once again after their experiences with '70's '80's and '90's American cars is no more useful that calling Americans libural commie Democraps or evil theocratic Rethugs, Americans can and should both buy and produce what they believe are the best cars in the world. Your mileage may vary.

RRedline: I'm sorry, but if you just want a fast street car, 1,000 HP is overkill. I have a 2011 Mustang GT with a Roush TVS supercharger, pulleyed and tuned to just under 700 crank HP (576 RWHP). Oh it's a heck of a lot of fun to drive...but it can get you into trouble on the streets. Even with 285 treadwidth tires (Continental DW summers), in warm weather, you can't use all that power in first, second, and sometimes even third gear. That means that you aren't using all the power until you are already in at least third gear, and already traveling fast enough to get a reckless driving charge in most places. For a fraction of what the monster in the article costs, you could have something similar to what I have. $40K can get you a Mustang, blower setup, wheels and tires, and you can run 10's at the drag strip. That's a damned good value if all you want is straight line performance at a bargain price.

That's because you're driving a RWD dinosaur of an engineered car ...

Try dumping 600HP into a quattro AWD drivetrain and you'll have yourself a car that can literally rip your face off in a straight line AND not hit a tree while attempting to go around a corner.

Independent Rear Suspension > Live Axle ... and ...



What I've done, is take one of these:



Upgraded the K03s turbo to a GT3071r, upgraded the rods, decked the head, changed the cams, and upgraded the software ... I'm now around 450hp and can still take a corner faster than any Mustang can. Don't get me wrong, I like Mustangs, but they are dinosaurs compared to today's cars ... some people like simplicity, some people like taking a corner with speed and control. I'm one of the latter.

Awright, here's my two cents.

Cars are like women. What one guy likes, the other might not be into.

It's OK to go for what lights you up - seriously. I'd far rather drive something that makes me insanely happy for what I get out of it, than drive something I hate just because the vox populi gets a boner when I go by. I'm living for me, not you. If you happen to dig what I'm into and vice-versa, awesome.

So, yeah - I think that *every* car, right down to the lowly Pinto, gives something unique to the driver that no other car can. The whole point is not to go all I HAVE THE BEEF SUPREEEME of cars, but to ENJOY AS MANY AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN BEFORE YOU DIE.

/Sheesh
//Stop acting Married
///Drive the sh*t out of everything, no matter what it is.

seadoo2006: That's because you're driving a RWD dinosaur of an engineered car ...

... which happens to compare extremely well to some very good German sports sedans.

seadoo2006: literally...

Does not mean what you think it means.

seadoo2006: Independent Rear Suspension > Live Axle

Oh? (pops) It's not nearly that simple. It really does depend on how it's set up. One can argue the particularities of a test, but even with that entire stack of conditions held against the Mustang, it's doing quite well in extremely capable company.

seadoo2006: can still take a corner faster than any Mustang can.

Can we see the data to support that?

Girion47: DubyaHater: [www.allfordmustangs.com image 500x354]

This is how I add power

2 things.

1. Subaru hood scoops are almost always functional...unlike Rustangs
2. Subaru designed their wing to actually provide the downforce required for the speeds that the STI reaches.

The STi? You mean the car that got its azz handed to it by a V6 Mustang at VIR (pops)? That STi?

I've instructed in STis for both track and auto-x, and the only ones I've enjoyed have had a couple of kilobucks thrown at the suspension. Stock, they're meh. Unless you like understeer.

Znuh: The whole point is not to go all I HAVE THE BEEF SUPREEEME of cars...

But what if I actually *do* have the Beef Supreme of cars?

Dammit. Seeing that totally gave me an

DaAlien: The STi? You mean the car that got its azz handed to it by a V6 Mustang at VIR (pops)? That STi?

Holy crap... How did I manage to completely forget about that? Fantastic.. thanks for the reminder!

InfamousBLT: RRedline: InfamousBLT: Anyone who buys a Mustang does it because they know nothing about cars.

There are much cheaper ways to look like a tool and much cheaper ways to get cars with too-big engines in it. There are much cheaper ways to get the absolute worst suspension in the world on a car. There are much cheaper ways to drive really fast then have to slow down to about 2 mph to go around a corner.

I hate getting stuck behind Mustangs in my GTI when I'm driving about. Are they faster on the straight? Of course, no question there, I'll never argue that. Then they get to a sharp turn and have to slow down to granny speed while I come flying up behind them because I don't effing want to slow down, because I don't have to.

Lots of cars can accelerate quickly, and many of those cars are cheaper than the Mustang. They're all better built too, and some of them can even turn at a somewhat quick pace.

0-60 in 6.8 is plenty fast enough to 60, because I don't ever go 60. What's fun is doing 40, and then you come up on a turn that says 15 mph, and then you just keep doing 40 while your car swoops around the corner at the limit of grip. That's exhilarating. Going 0-60 in another second or two faster? Okay...cool. Woo. Lots of cars can do that, and most of those cars can do other things too. Plus most of those other cars don't make you look like a tool.

I just don't understand Mustangs. At all.

/I'll give you the classic Mustangs though
//Only because they were mad machines
///Current Mustangs are just big engine in a crappy car with an even worse suspension

I'm sorry, but a 2011+ Mustang GT would absolutely manhandle your pathetic GTI on pretty much any paved track. The new 5.0 is basically a poor man's M3 as they both produce very similar results at the track. So I guess people who buy M3's are idiots too? You have to slow down when you get behind someone in one of those M3's because it can't handle the turn as fast as your amazing GTI can?

Please, stop making shiat up ...

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if a 2012 V6 Mustang w/ the performance package wouldn't hand you your ass in the GTI.

treesloth: So, consider instead that the non-pro driver in the same review got times of 92.07 sec and 91.52 sec on the same course in the same cars on the same day.

Oh, and I should point on that the faster lap time went to the Mustang, not the M3. Forgot to include that. It's still only half a second (an eternity in some races, meh with an amateur out having fun) but in the regular Joe's hands, the Mustang was faster.

InfamousBLT: Oh come on, how many people actually buy the GOOD Mustangs?
No. Most people buy the shiatty regular Mustangs and prattle on about how great their car is. Its stupid, because they are overpriced pieces of junk with a large engine under the hood.

Now if you're talking about a GT, the nice one, then ... you're still an idiot, because it's still an overpriced piece of shiat compared to other cars in its price range. So it produces similar results to an M3 at the same cost and has NONE of the creature comforts or class of an M3 and is worse to drive every day (which is how most people drive their cars). Its like an M3, but worse...so why would you buy one unless you're a tard? Plus the GT is difficult to drive. Sure, some ultra uber driver can drive it as fast as an M3, but CAN YOU? Nope.

That goes all the way up to this Mustang in the article. For 200k I'll buy a GTR and build a garage to put it in and blow this thing out of the water on a track.

Mustang owners don't know anything about cars. Goes for Mustang fans as well I guess.

A $30K Mustang GT is overpriced? What cars in its price range outperform it? Can you please provide a list? By the way, you can get a base level GT for closer to $25K in many areas. You think 0-60 in 4.4 secs. and mid to high 12's in the quarter are not good enough for $30K? I look forward to seeing your list of other cars in the same price range that can do that. After all, I am a "tard" who doesn't know anything about cars.

Also, since when did a Mustang GT cost the same as an M3? The M3 is still quite a bit more expensive than a Boss 302, which would make it its biatch on a track. Where do you get your information? You really should stop reading your ricer magazines and go to an actual track to see how modern cars compare with each other in the real world and not in the alternate universe that you are used to.

Difficult to drive? LOL!

i drove one when i worked at shelby. they're a lot of fun and the suspension and drive shaft are pretty beefed up so they handle well.

treesloth: seadoo2006: That's because you're driving a RWD dinosaur of an engineered car ...

seadoo2006: Independent Rear Suspension > Live Axle

Oh? (pops) It's not nearly that simple. It really does depend on how it's set up. One can argue the particularities of a test, but even with that entire stack of conditions held against the Mustang, it's doing quite well in extremely capable company.

This. Lets look at what happens when you have a "run what you brung" ultimate track car shoot out (pop)Link.

Notice what's at the top of the leader board? Care to guess what the rear suspension was?

/The best handling car I've ever driven had IRS
//So did the worst handling car
///All you stick axle haters: Explain why stick axles are bad. Then, to demonstrate you actually know something about cars, explain what their advantages are (hint, there are some).

TheYeti: Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if a 2012 V6 Mustang w/ the performance package wouldn't hand you your ass in the GTI.

With a hat tip to DaAlien, this page (pops) provides useful data.

blah blah steering blah blah suspension blah blah handling blah blah it's worse than random sports car blah blah it's worse than random exotic blah blah

It seems a lot of people in this thread have little to no idea what the concept of a "muscle car" is supposed to entail.

I have a 2012 Boss 302, 444 hp and it does not handle like a cow.
Got it for less than 50k, taking it to a road course this weekend.
The most fun possible with your clothes on.

DaAlien: Girion47: DubyaHater: [www.allfordmustangs.com image 500x354]

This is how I add power

2 things.

1. Subaru hood scoops are almost always functional...unlike Rustangs
2. Subaru designed their wing to actually provide the downforce required for the speeds that the STI reaches.

The STi? You mean the car that got its azz handed to it by a V6 Mustang at VIR (pops)? That STi?

I've instructed in STis for both track and auto-x, and the only ones I've enjoyed have had a couple of kilobucks thrown at the suspension. Stock, they're meh. Unless you like understeer.

I'd love to see that on a wet track and what the numbers come out as.

a WRX or STI is going to beat a mustang when it comes to real world usefulness, and lets face it, most of us aren't rich enough for a track only car.

seadoo2006: That's because you're driving a RWD dinosaur of an engineered car ...

Try dumping 600HP into a quattro AWD drivetrain and you'll have yourself a car that can literally rip your face off in a straight line AND not hit a tree while attempting to go around a corner.

I would rather not because I just bought a Mustang and added a simple SC to get it to around 700 HP. It takes corners quite a bit better than you Audi fanbois think it does, and it HAULS BALLS. If you read my Boobies in this thread, I even said that 1,000 HP is overkill for a Mustang and not worth the price. Besides, you can achieve 1,000 HP with a Boss 302 and an extra $10K..

If I had $200K to spend on a car, it would not be a Mustang (or an Audi). I am not even going to knock on other cars that actually DO perform well. But anyone who sees no value in a Mustang is a hater, plain and simple. You can get a brand new GT for under $30K, and another $8-10K gets you a blower/turbo and new wheels/tires (10's all day long at the track). You don't need any other upgrades than that to safely support 700 crank HP on a 5.0 Mustang.

But please, keep going on about your car that cost you way more than my Mustang with mods, and still puts out substantially less power. "Oh, but dayamn can it take that one corner on the interstate on the way home from work."

PPpsssttt.... it's still a mustang.

RRedline: seadoo2006: That's because you're driving a RWD dinosaur of an engineered car ...

Try dumping 600HP into a quattro AWD drivetrain and you'll have yourself a car that can literally rip your face off in a straight line AND not hit a tree while attempting to go around a corner.

I would rather not because I just bought a Mustang and added a simple SC to get it to around 700 HP. It takes corners quite a bit better than you Audi fanbois think it does, and it HAULS BALLS. If you read my Boobies in this thread, I even said that 1,000 HP is overkill for a Mustang and not worth the price. Besides, you can achieve 1,000 HP with a Boss 302 and an extra $10K..

If I had $200K to spend on a car, it would not be a Mustang (or an Audi). I am not even going to knock on other cars that actually DO perform well. But anyone who sees no value in a Mustang is a hater, plain and simple. You can get a brand new GT for under $30K, and another $8-10K gets you a blower/turbo and new wheels/tires (10's all day long at the track). You don't need any other upgrades than that to safely support 700 crank HP on a 5.0 Mustang.

But please, keep going on about your car that cost you way more than my Mustang with mods, and still puts out substantially less power. "Oh, but dayamn can it take that one corner on the interstate on the way home from work."

You're forgetting the biggest part....they don't look like tools

It will be interesting to see exactly how fast the Shelby 1000 will go.

It will be interesting to see exactly how fast the Shelby 1000 will twist itself in two.

Girion47: I'd love to see that on a wet track and what the numbers come out as.

a WRX or STI is going to beat a mustang when it comes to real world usefulness, and lets face it, most of us aren't rich enough for a track only car.

Keep moving that goal post. And what kind of idiot drives fast on wet roads?

RRedline: Girion47: I'd love to see that on a wet track and what the numbers come out as.

a WRX or STI is going to beat a mustang when it comes to real world usefulness, and lets face it, most of us aren't rich enough for a track only car.

Keep moving that goal post. And what kind of idiot drives fast on wet roads?

its not even about going fast, its about traction. How does your mustang handle snow? My WRX has never slid on me. Neither has my A4.

I get a real kick reading all the bench racing arguements. When, in fact, you go to an open track event and 75% of the cars out there are either Mustangs or Miatas. And that pretty much settles any cost/performance debate.

Girion47: You're forgetting the biggest part....they don't look like tools

Domestic = tools. Import = real cars.

Got it. Thanks for the facts.

You know, there are a lot of cars out there that I would never consider buying, but I am not doing to disrespect something that performs well or is a great value. People like you are just fanboys.

If someone could please list all the cars in the Mustang GT's price range that outperform it, that would be swell. For something so "obvious" to some people, they sure don't seem to have a list handy.

treesloth: Gleeman: If I had that much money to waste, I'd spend it on one of these instead:
[image.trucktrend.com image 640x470]

Might not be as fast as a 'stang, but I wouldn't be afraid of trading a little paint in rush hour traffic!

And if someone cuts you off in traffic, you machine gun their car in half and roll right over it. Excellent.

And they're street legal too!

Though you just might get into trouble with the law if you reactivate the weapons...

Girion47: its not even about going fast, its about traction. How does your mustang handle snow? My WRX has never slid on me. Neither has my A4.

You seriously just moved the goalpost yet again.

To answer your question, though, I would never drive my car in the snow. I don't doubt that your cars would perform better in snow. Then again, your cars would outperform a Ferrari Enzo in the snow too, so what's your point?

RRedline: Girion47: its not even about going fast, its about traction. How does your mustang handle snow? My WRX has never slid on me. Neither has my A4.

You seriously just moved the goalpost yet again.

To answer your question, though, I would never drive my car in the snow. I don't doubt that your cars would perform better in snow. Then again, your cars would outperform a Ferrari Enzo in the snow too, so what's your point?

That for the price, they're superior to your mustang considering they're close in power yet they are far more versatile in use. And when you're calculating price are you including insurance costs?

Znuh: Awright, here's my two cents.

Cars are like women. What one guy likes, the other might not be into.

It's OK to go for what lights you up - seriously. I'd far rather drive something that makes me insanely happy for what I get out of it, than drive something I hate just because the vox populi gets a boner when I go by. I'm living for me, not you. If you happen to dig what I'm into and vice-versa, awesome.

So, yeah - I think that *every* car, right down to the lowly Pinto, gives something unique to the driver that no other car can. The whole point is not to go all I HAVE THE BEEF SUPREEEME of cars, but to ENJOY AS MANY AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN BEFORE YOU DIE.

/Sheesh
//Stop acting Married
///Drive the sh*t out of everything, no matter what it is.

Amen.

My experience with a Mustang is limited to a '95 GT. Mustangs are popular because its got a great aftermarket and parts are plentiful and usually pretty cheap. They're easy to wrench on and they can be made pretty fast. Some of the Fox-body handling woes can be mitigated by lowering, adding subframe connectors, aftermarket dampers, panhard rod, etc. Chassis flex was a big problem with these cars. Coupled with a live axle and those floppy trailing arms, it made for an ass end that liked to dance around. But it had such a wonderfully torquey engine. You could have a lot of fun with that car under 100mph.

A Mustang isn't always a Mustang either. A Shelby built Mustang isn't going to be a lot like a Mustang GT rolling off the assembly line. Steve Saleen's Mustangs won loads of SCCA events.

Beyond the whole car versus car issue, I think some people are mistaken about one thing: the best handling or best engineered car isn't going to imbue you with superior driving skills. Idiot driver is still idiot driver with all the same bad habits.

Groink: Beyond the whole car versus car issue, I think some people are mistaken about one thing: the best handling or best engineered car isn't going to imbue you with superior driving skills. Idiot driver is still idiot driver with all the same bad habits.

This.

I've seen a horrible POS Taurus out-drive an Alfa on an ice-racing track.

The operative word is Drive.

Bad drivers will pay through the nose, fail, then blame the car.

Great drivers can seemingly take anything, I mean anything, and drive circles around others, myself included.

At that point, you have to laugh, and realize that in many cases it comes down to skill. You don't let the butthurt even hit you; you realize you got spanked by someone who was on their game more, and then you grin and keep reaching for that level of skill, and better.

But if you do suffer from being easily knocked off your pivot, then that means you're probably going to be all up in your own mind as you race, which again means, you're not truly in it.

Above all, have fun. The moment you want to share in something cool, you'll have my undivided attention. Try to tell me how cool you are, and my eyes glaze over.

Holy crap! In other news, I'd like to deeply, deeply thank Linoleum_Blownapart who just bought me a month of Total Fark! Total huge and amazing surprise! (Starts looking around)