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(Jezebel)   Why do some fans of "The Hunger Games" have to be racist idiots? Not gonna lie, kinda ruins the Internet   (jezebel.com) divider line 317
    More: Dumbass, The Hunger Games, online, Jennifer Lawrence, Lenny Kravitz, black hair, racists  
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11120 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 27 Mar 2012 at 12:00 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-27 09:25:40 PM

Mike Chewbacca: These are the same people who thought it was perfectly fine that these Asian kids:

[www.toplessrobot.com image 619x337]

were played by these white actors:

[media.tumblr.com image 454x676]


Asian kids have blue eyes? News to me!

Avatar characters weren't "Asian" since they weren't from Earth.

Plus the drawings themselves show them to have zero Chinese features.

Big round eyes? Asian? Get out of here.
 
2012-03-27 09:30:51 PM
also, LOL at the idiotic posters complaining about Avatar characters being "white washed" when they don't look Asian at all.

Where were your complaints when Japan cast a Japanese as Spider-Man?

Oh wait, it's only bad when white people do it.
 
2012-03-27 09:31:18 PM

dyli: Thanks for posting the frame from "True Romance". That scene was the best part of the movie!


I wanted to second this. I love that movie so much. I just found out my roommate hasn't seen it which makes it an emergency situation.
 
2012-03-27 09:45:14 PM

Whizzy: The Stealth Hippopotamus: [img535.imageshack.us image 640x512]

Greatest casting evar!

Out of every thing wrong with that movie, Michael Clarke Duncan playing Kingpin is at the bottom of the list.


My mind has Michael Clarke Duncan cast as Kalam in the Malazan Book of the Fallen.

/Yes, I know nobody gives a shiat about that...
 
2012-03-27 10:02:13 PM

raygundan: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: It was at least as problematic that they ended up using exclusively-white leads with non-white extras and villains.

This is where I'm probably going to get beat up again, but the artwork for several of the lead characters in the original cartoon differs dramatically from a lot of the "extras" in the cartoon, too. Aang in particular-- I actually thought he was from an ethnic minority within his culture.


I think the intentionally anime-influenced style (and Aang's youth) accounts for the big round eyes. FWIW, here's how the show's creator drew him for a poster (possibly to make a point):

www.racebending.com

But really, there isn't that much to go on in the cartoon's character design (and Aang was adopted, after all, so...). I just never saw any reason to suspect that he was a lone dark-haired white kid who had hooked up with a monastery full of Asians of similar skin tone and lived in a basically Asian culture where no one ever seemed to find him unusual (when they weren't aware he was the Avatar).

Incidentally, Zuko could hardly be more clearly Asian, and they originally cast a white guy even in that part (who, to be fair, looks more like Zuko than the actor they eventually went with).
 
2012-03-27 10:03:32 PM
Why does my steak have to be black not gonna lie, kinda ruined dinner.
 
2012-03-27 10:23:04 PM
I'll admit, I imagined Rue as being white, but in a vague, featureless way. I did gloss over the description of her dark skin. I glossed over a lot, actually, because the action is more interesting than the characterization. I read it all really fast - the whole trilogy over a week - because the writing style doesn't lend itself to any sort of reflection.

but I'm not like, mad about it. what kind of defective person is upset about that?

KatjaMouse: Why does Obama have to be black? Not gonna lie, kinda ruined the presidency.


that would be funny if it didn't seem to be the Republican party line lately.
 
2012-03-27 10:27:15 PM

rocky_howard:

Asian kids have blue eyes? News to me!


img282.imageshack.us

True, that definitely can't happen in real life, except that sometimes it does, but as already discussed the world of Avatar is a *fantastical* world based on Asia, not a representation of the PRC. Blue eyes here and there don't mean that everyone important to the story becomes white and Sarah Palin is Fire Lord.
 
2012-03-27 10:38:19 PM

BorgiaGinz: CityExile: Didn't some people also get upset when Mos Def was cast in Hitchhiker's Guide? Of course, this was before the days of Twitter, so that idiocy wasn't nearly as loud as this one.

I was upset about Mos Def, not because he's black but because A) he's American and B) he can't act. Same objections to casting Zooey Deschanel as Trillian. Sam Rockwell CAN act, but his choice to play Zaphod Beeblebrox as an even more retarded Dubya was asinine.

If the producers wanted a black Ford Prefect, they should have gone with Lenny Henry.


Personally I thought Mos Def's performance was one of the better things in the movie, although that's not saying much.
 
2012-03-27 10:43:12 PM

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: And without even being able to make any plausible pretense that they just hired the best available actors.


I'll buy that Shaun Toub and Dev Patel were the best available actors. Why they were cast in the parts given, I may never understand. Excepting the guy from the daily show (wtf), everyone else they hired to do stunts and spin kicks, which is a dumb farking idea for any non-kung fu movie.

Either way, the casting wasn't close to the biggest problem in that piece of shiat
 
2012-03-27 10:45:58 PM

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: True, that definitely can't happen in real life, except that sometimes it does, but as already discussed the world of Avatar is a *fantastical* world based on Asia, not a representation of the PRC. Blue eyes here and there don't mean that everyone important to the story becomes white and Sarah Palin is Fire Lord.


Hur dur! A picture of a girl with some degree of caucasian descent has blue eyes totally means Chinese have blue eyes.

Do you have any more strawmen to pull off?

Now, besides the Avatar characters looking clearly as not-Chinese save for their clothes, there's this simple fact:

Any country that makes an adaptation of a work is going to use actors from their own pool.

if Uganda decides to fund a movie adaptation of Avatar, guess what? The guys are going to be black.
 
2012-03-27 11:03:07 PM

Braindeath: dyli: Thanks for posting the frame from "True Romance". That scene was the best part of the movie!

I wanted to second this. I love that movie so much. I just found out my roommate hasn't seen it which makes it an emergency situation.


I think it was my first Quentin Tarantino film. Plus, it's got the best cast ever! Your roommate will thank you -if not, you need a new roommate.
 
2012-03-27 11:04:16 PM
Why did Scott Joplin have to be black? Not gonna lie, kind of ruined ragtime music for me.
 
2012-03-27 11:06:58 PM

rocky_howard: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: True, that definitely can't happen in real life, except that sometimes it does, but as already discussed the world of Avatar is a *fantastical* world based on Asia, not a representation of the PRC. Blue eyes here and there don't mean that everyone important to the story becomes white and Sarah Palin is Fire Lord.

Hur dur! A picture of a girl with some degree of caucasian descent has blue eyes totally means Chinese have blue eyes.

Do you have any more strawmen to pull off?

Now, besides the Avatar characters looking clearly as not-Chinese save for their clothes, there's this simple fact:

Any country that makes an adaptation of a work is going to use actors from their own pool.

if Uganda decides to fund a movie adaptation of Avatar, guess what? The guys are going to be black.


Tsk. I wasn't sure whether you were trolling or incredibly stupid, but you just gave it away.
 
2012-03-27 11:13:00 PM
Why did that NASA astronaut Ronald McNair have to be black? Not gonna lie, kind of ruined the space shuttle Challenger explosion for me.
 
2012-03-27 11:28:22 PM
AVATAR SUCKED.

The cartoon AND the movie.

So really: Who gives a flying f√ck if they were Asian, faux-Asian, white, or anything else? They were annoying!

/HE-MAN WAS WHITE BUT HAD DARK SKIN! YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN THAT!
 
2012-03-27 11:29:19 PM

Monkeyfark Ridiculous:

Tsk. I wasn't sure whether you were trolling or incredibly stupid, but you just gave it away.


You're trolling/stupid = Can't pose a valid argument.

Thanks for confirming that.
 
2012-03-27 11:29:47 PM

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: rocky_howard:

Asian kids have blue eyes? News to me!


[img282.imageshack.us image 500x375]

True, that definitely can't happen in real life, except that sometimes it does, but as already discussed the world of Avatar is a *fantastical* world based on Asia, not a representation of the PRC. Blue eyes here and there don't mean that everyone important to the story becomes white and Sarah Palin is Fire Lord.


I always thought the benders' eyes match the color of the element they bend, and that's why the Water Tribe people have blue eyes, and the Fire Nation have orange/gold.
 
2012-03-27 11:31:06 PM

Nix Nightbird: /HE-MAN WAS WHITE BUT HAD DARK SKIN! YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN THAT!


I can't but he-can.

/groan
 
2012-03-27 11:45:50 PM
Why did Darth Vador have to be black not gonna lie kinda ruined Star Wars for me.
 
2012-03-27 11:46:21 PM

Mike Chewbacca: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: rocky_howard:

Asian kids have blue eyes? News to me!


[img282.imageshack.us image 500x375]

True, that definitely can't happen in real life, except that sometimes it does, but as already discussed the world of Avatar is a *fantastical* world based on Asia, not a representation of the PRC. Blue eyes here and there don't mean that everyone important to the story becomes white and Sarah Palin is Fire Lord.

I always thought the benders' eyes match the color of the element they bend, and that's why the Water Tribe people have blue eyes, and the Fire Nation have orange/gold.


Hey, that makes lots of sense. I wonder if it's the official reason.
 
2012-03-28 12:02:41 AM

rocky_howard: Mike Chewbacca: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: rocky_howard:

Asian kids have blue eyes? News to me!


[img282.imageshack.us image 500x375]

True, that definitely can't happen in real life, except that sometimes it does, but as already discussed the world of Avatar is a *fantastical* world based on Asia, not a representation of the PRC. Blue eyes here and there don't mean that everyone important to the story becomes white and Sarah Palin is Fire Lord.

I always thought the benders' eyes match the color of the element they bend, and that's why the Water Tribe people have blue eyes, and the Fire Nation have orange/gold.

Hey, that makes lots of sense. I wonder if it's the official reason.


I have no idea. I may have simply "logicked" my way out of being mad about Inuit people having blue eyes on the show, but I think it makes sense. Plus, the creators did a great job with getting every detail right (including the exit burn on the bottom of Aang's foot after Azula zotted him while he was in the Avatar State). I just get the feeling these guys pay attention to every detail, and that nothing is an accident.
 
2012-03-28 12:03:32 AM

Mike Chewbacca: rocky_howard: Mike Chewbacca: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: rocky_howard:

Asian kids have blue eyes? News to me!


[img282.imageshack.us image 500x375]

True, that definitely can't happen in real life, except that sometimes it does, but as already discussed the world of Avatar is a *fantastical* world based on Asia, not a representation of the PRC. Blue eyes here and there don't mean that everyone important to the story becomes white and Sarah Palin is Fire Lord.

I always thought the benders' eyes match the color of the element they bend, and that's why the Water Tribe people have blue eyes, and the Fire Nation have orange/gold.

Hey, that makes lots of sense. I wonder if it's the official reason.

I have no idea. I may have simply "logicked" my way out of being mad about Inuit people having blue eyes on the show, but I think it makes sense. Plus, the creators did a great job with getting every detail right (including the exit burn on the bottom of Aang's foot after Azula zotted him while he was in the Avatar State). I just get the feeling these guys pay attention to every detail, and that nothing is an accident.


Oh, and that scar stayed on his foot for the rest of the show. We were looking for it.
 
2012-03-28 12:09:00 AM

Mike Chewbacca: rocky_howard: Mike Chewbacca: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: rocky_howard:

Asian kids have blue eyes? News to me!


[img282.imageshack.us image 500x375]

True, that definitely can't happen in real life, except that sometimes it does, but as already discussed the world of Avatar is a *fantastical* world based on Asia, not a representation of the PRC. Blue eyes here and there don't mean that everyone important to the story becomes white and Sarah Palin is Fire Lord.

I always thought the benders' eyes match the color of the element they bend, and that's why the Water Tribe people have blue eyes, and the Fire Nation have orange/gold.

Hey, that makes lots of sense. I wonder if it's the official reason.

I have no idea. I may have simply "logicked" my way out of being mad about Inuit people having blue eyes on the show, but I think it makes sense. Plus, the creators did a great job with getting every detail right (including the exit burn on the bottom of Aang's foot after Azula zotted him while he was in the Avatar State). I just get the feeling these guys pay attention to every detail, and that nothing is an accident.


It's a cool idea, but I don't think so: the characters in the show are unable to tell by looking whether someone is a bender, what they bend, or even what nation they're from, so I don't think the eyes could be that kind of telltale. (Brown would be a slightly odd choice to represent air, too.)

It's maybe worth mentioning that a lot of the characters are from the same couple of families...maybe it's just part of giving them some family resemblance.
 
2012-03-28 12:10:40 AM

Trolljegeren: /Also, I thought Rue was Mexican/hispanic in the book.
//The giant fence and guard towers around her District reinforced this.


who-is-awesome.com

I have to agree though. I had assumed she was hispanic as well. My guess was based on the fact that she came from the agricultural district. Black people haven't really been the go-to guys for that kind of work since about 150 years ago.
Also all the passages about how she could swing from tree to tree, like a monkey. White people have to be real careful when saying stuff like that.

In Thresh's case I must have overlooked the part about his skin tone and just assumed he looked like Duke Nukem or Ivan Drago.

Neither of these revelations startled or offended me though. That would be about as silly as being startled or offended by something somebody said on Twitter.
 
2012-03-28 12:13:27 AM

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Mike Chewbacca: rocky_howard: Mike Chewbacca: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: rocky_howard:

Asian kids have blue eyes? News to me!


[img282.imageshack.us image 500x375]

True, that definitely can't happen in real life, except that sometimes it does, but as already discussed the world of Avatar is a *fantastical* world based on Asia, not a representation of the PRC. Blue eyes here and there don't mean that everyone important to the story becomes white and Sarah Palin is Fire Lord.

I always thought the benders' eyes match the color of the element they bend, and that's why the Water Tribe people have blue eyes, and the Fire Nation have orange/gold.

Hey, that makes lots of sense. I wonder if it's the official reason.

I have no idea. I may have simply "logicked" my way out of being mad about Inuit people having blue eyes on the show, but I think it makes sense. Plus, the creators did a great job with getting every detail right (including the exit burn on the bottom of Aang's foot after Azula zotted him while he was in the Avatar State). I just get the feeling these guys pay attention to every detail, and that nothing is an accident.

It's a cool idea, but I don't think so: the characters in the show are unable to tell by looking whether someone is a bender, what they bend, or even what nation they're from, so I don't think the eyes could be that kind of telltale. (Brown would be a slightly odd choice to represent air, too.)

It's maybe worth mentioning that a lot of the characters are from the same couple of families...maybe it's just part of giving them some family resemblance.


I haven't examined every character's eyes, but Water Tribe people ALL seem to have blue eyes, not just the Waterbenders. Aang has gray eyes, but of course he's the only Air Nomad left so that could just be an Avatar thingie. And Zuko's whole family has the orangey-gold. Toph has monochrome eyes, and I can't remember any of the other Earthbender's names, so I didn't look that up.
 
2012-03-28 12:22:17 AM

Mike Chewbacca: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Mike Chewbacca: rocky_howard: Mike Chewbacca: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: rocky_howard:

Asian kids have blue eyes? News to me!


[img282.imageshack.us image 500x375]

True, that definitely can't happen in real life, except that sometimes it does, but as already discussed the world of Avatar is a *fantastical* world based on Asia, not a representation of the PRC. Blue eyes here and there don't mean that everyone important to the story becomes white and Sarah Palin is Fire Lord.

I always thought the benders' eyes match the color of the element they bend, and that's why the Water Tribe people have blue eyes, and the Fire Nation have orange/gold.

Hey, that makes lots of sense. I wonder if it's the official reason.

I have no idea. I may have simply "logicked" my way out of being mad about Inuit people having blue eyes on the show, but I think it makes sense. Plus, the creators did a great job with getting every detail right (including the exit burn on the bottom of Aang's foot after Azula zotted him while he was in the Avatar State). I just get the feeling these guys pay attention to every detail, and that nothing is an accident.

It's a cool idea, but I don't think so: the characters in the show are unable to tell by looking whether someone is a bender, what they bend, or even what nation they're from, so I don't think the eyes could be that kind of telltale. (Brown would be a slightly odd choice to represent air, too.)

It's maybe worth mentioning that a lot of the characters are from the same couple of families...maybe it's just part of giving them some family resemblance.

I haven't examined every character's eyes, but Water Tribe people ALL seem to have blue eyes, not just the Waterbenders. Aang has gray eyes, but of course he's the only Air Nomad left so that could just be an Avatar thingie. And Zuko's whole family has the orangey-gold. Toph has monochrome eyes, and I can't remember any of the other Earthbender's names, so I didn't look that u ...


Well, my point is that if eye color were a nation or bending tipoff then the characters would be given away (at least enough to generate suspicion) on the many many occasions where someone is passing for something they are not. The same way that their names raise questions when they forget to disguise them.

Aang's eyes vary. I think part of that attention to detail you mentioned is that they are careful to show reflections.

/fwiw, I checked on the swamp waterbenders, brownish eyes there
 
2012-03-28 12:54:52 AM

Confabulat: Peeta is a pussy. I'm Team Gale all the way.


:-/

I think Peeta is the best match for her. He is aware in ways she is clueless. That being said, Katniss seems like a flower that blooms but never blossoms. I wonder if she ever comes into womanhood, into passion and love. She's young yet in the books, but I can see her holding this part of herself back her entire life. Not fair for Peeta.

/leave me alone, I have friends who read the book and we've had arguments about it :P
 
2012-03-28 01:46:35 AM

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Well, my point is that if eye color were a nation or bending tipoff then the characters would be given away (at least enough to generate suspicion) on the many many occasions where someone is passing for something they are not.


Perhaps the people of the Avatar world are just extraordinarily unobservant?
 
2012-03-28 02:05:47 AM

kumanoki: Gary Coleman: Now, there is a fine upstanding black man!
Kate Monster: Who?
Gary Coleman: Jesus Christ.
Kate Monster: Uh, Gary...Jesus was white.
Gary Coleman: Jesus was black.
Kate Monster: I'm pretty sure Jesus was white.
Princeton: Guys, guys! Jesus...was Jewish.

/everyone's a little bit racist
//sometimes


Doesn't mean we go around committing hate crimes.

/Love that musical.
 
2012-03-28 02:38:35 AM

serial_crusher: Trolljegeren: /Also, I thought Rue was Mexican/hispanic in the book.
//The giant fence and guard towers around her District reinforced this.

[who-is-awesome.com image 554x426]

I have to agree though. I had assumed she was hispanic as well. My guess was based on the fact that she came from the agricultural district. Black people haven't really been the go-to guys for that kind of work since about 150 years ago.
Also all the passages about how she could swing from tree to tree, like a monkey. White people have to be real careful when saying stuff like that.

In Thresh's case I must have overlooked the part about his skin tone and just assumed he looked like Duke Nukem or Ivan Drago.

Neither of these revelations startled or offended me though. That would be about as silly as being startled or offended by something somebody said on Twitter.


Yeah, the agriculture thing sort of led me in my expectations, as well. In the book Thresh is described as having the same dark skin tone as Rue - so, if you had already made your mind up about her ethnicity, that gets projected onto Thresh (if you note his description in the book at all).

I can see the author possibly taking some heat over certain passages, but I don't foresee protesters camping on her lawn.
 
2012-03-28 02:50:58 AM
People on Twitter:

i.imgur.com
 
2012-03-28 03:21:16 AM

Braindeath: brigid_fitch: Yes, Cinna's skin is implied in the book. He's from District 11, whose members, according to the book, all have dark skin and dark hair. Collins herself says that District 11 is the Deep South and is mostly populated by African Americans.

Thanks, Brigid because I was sitting here going, no, I'm pretty sure he was black but I couldn't remember why I knew that.


uh, no. Cinna is from the Capitol. You can't be a stylist if your not from the Capitol. Also, his name is from roman history, A trait only shared by Capitol citizens and district 2 (maybe 6, I think there was a guy from 6 named Titus...).
 
2012-03-28 03:38:13 AM
I was interested in HG when I heard a movie about a book with native american heroine was finally being made.

Til I found out she was white. Hollywood fails yet again.
 
2012-03-28 04:38:33 AM

wiwille: a black Superman film just to watch the internet explode.


This already happened. It was called Steel and starred Shaquille O'Neil.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120207/

It's not explicit about it, but read the synopsis of that movie and then read this:

Steel (John Henry Irons)
(new window)
 
2012-03-28 04:57:09 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: The other issue, of heritage and identity, also comes into play. How does the child who's parents do not identify with one another, identify his or herself? what happens when the child identifies in a way which is not socially acceptable? what happens when the child declines to say 'mixed' and says 'X'?


I'm gonna lead off with

forums.watchuseek.com

Then, I'm gonna say: If you are asking this question and aren't of mixed heritage yourself, you can step back and fark your own face. fark you, fark your socially acceptable identifications and fark your "concern" about the whole thing. We'll farking identify however we feel comfortable.
 
2012-03-28 05:08:16 AM

eldritch2k4: ExperianScaresCthulhu:... what happens when the child declines to say 'mixed' and says 'X'?


upload.wikimedia.org?
 
Skr
2012-03-28 06:25:03 AM
Why were there no arrows to the knee in The Hunger Games not gonna lie kinda ruined the movie
 
2012-03-28 06:28:47 AM

Skr: Why were there no arrows to the knee in The Hunger Games not gonna lie kinda ruined the movie


Keyboard, please.
Ok, I don't need a new keyboard. I did not spit out my coffee when I read your post.
But I giggled.
 
2012-03-28 07:38:03 AM

brigid_fitch: stevie1der: I don't recall Cinna ever being from district 11 in the books, where was that?

precia: Did Collins say that about Cinna? I guess I'd be willing to believe it if she said so, but it doesn't seem in character for the Capitol to promote even a fashion prodigy from the Districts.

I don't recall anything in the books indicating that he was from anywhere but the Capitol.

thurstonxhowell: I don't remember and can't find any evidence he was from District 11.

Hmmm, I'm mistaken. Everything I find says that Cinna's from the Capitol but I could have sworn he was described as having dark skin, which is why I assumed he was from District 11. I did find in thurstonxhowell's link that he's described as having short brown hair that Katniss doesn't think is dyed, so have no clue where I thought he was black. Oh, well. Still--makes no difference that Kravitz was cast. He was underused in the first movie--we'll see how it goes w/the 2nd when he has a much bigger role.


I had pictured Cinna as black, not sure if anything in the book tipped me that way. I missed the part where it said Rue was black in the book but the girl who played her was absolutely adorable. Most of the theater was crying during that scene.

I enjoyed Lenny Kravitz as Cinna, wished he had more screen time.
 
2012-03-28 08:18:51 AM

Ashtrey: Where the hell was Caucasia anyway? I mean I'm white so I should probably know, right?


Between the Black and Caspian Seas. Using "Caucasian" to refer to white people isn't really accurate, however, and the term was always controversial in Indo-European scholarship.

Its use comes from the theory that Indo-Europeans came from the Caucasus originally. I'm not going to get into the arguments, but that's more or less correct, though it'd be more accurate to say the Southern Caucasus and mountains of northern Turkey. Why it's inaccurate to use it as a stand in for white people though is because not all Indo-Europeans are pale-faces like us Greco-Germano-Celts. Central Asia, Iran, and India are filled with people speaking a language just as "Caucasian" as anything we Euro-descended people speak. Similarly, there are plenty of non-Indo-Europeans that are phenotypically "white", mostly spread throughout what we today think of as Russia, but the Basques and Laplanders are also good examples. So the idea that "whiteness" is synonymous with "Caucasian" is just wrong.

It'd be more accurate to say that, if your ancestors from between 7000 and 5000 years ago lived above or bred with those who lived above, say, Longitude 40, then you are likely phenotypically "white", and if not, then you probably aren't. That of course has nothing to do with language, which is why the Caucasian connection is entirely irrelevant.
 
2012-03-28 08:37:33 AM

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: I think the intentionally anime-influenced style (and Aang's youth) accounts for the big round eyes.


This tends to be a point of confusion for western audiences of Asian or Asian-inspired animation. Folks who felt large eyes made Aang "European" or at least "not Asian" certainly weren't alone in that mistake; that's an argument every old anime hand has had to have with one sheltered newbie or another at least once in their lives. As any fan not dedicated to racial assumptions can tell you, big round eyes are symbolic of innocence, emotional expressiveness, and honesty in many Asian cultures, so the fact that Aang (and the rest of the heroes) are drawn with large eyes isn't meant to mark them as European, but rather as "the good guys". In a similar way, Zuko's thinner eyes are symbolic of his internal conflict and suppression of emotion; his eyes -the windows to the soul- are "hidden" just like he hides his true thoughts and feeling from the world and himself.

The fundamental point folks need to take away from this is that Northwestern European culture is not the only culture; that other peoples have their own symbolism, their own sense of how they look, and their own artistic conventions.
 
2012-03-28 08:50:21 AM

raygundan: Mike Chewbacca: Yeah, the Air Nomads don't look Asian at all. Where could I be getting that idea?

SOME of them look Asian. Some of them don't. Why do they all have to be Asian?

And characters in the title? You might as well argue that they're all American because they speak English with American accents. Or that the Water Tribe are Vikings because of their boats. To me, the influences you point to are clear-- there are definitely Asian influences in each culture. But they're also not the only influences, nor are the tribes ethnically pure-- and there's no indication in the story itself that these tribes are even supposed to be descendants of real-world races, let alone a single real-world race. It's a fictional world with a rich set of fictional cultures that draws deeply from a wide variety of real-world cultures. But for every Chinese-influenced Earth Kingdom temple, there's a distinctly Roman-influenced Earth Kingdom viaduct or Coliseum-style gladiatorial fights. For every igloo in the Water tribe, there's a sailboat or a boomerang.


Those aren't viking boats, those are Pacific-Northwest, Polynesian and Inuit boats. Those aren't Roman viaducts, those are Chinese viaducts, and the "gladiatorial fights" really had far more to do with modern wrestling (something very popular in Japan and Mexico), which the naming conventions used with the fighters(not to mention to Belt they were fighting over) really should have tipped you off to. Honestly, your paragraph is filled with so many assumptions that these sorts of things were only ever invented by Euros that it kind of proves the point about white-washing that you intended to argue against.
 
2012-03-28 09:08:56 AM

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: (Brown would be a slightly odd choice to represent air, too.)


Not if they were from Los Angeles.
 
2012-03-28 09:12:34 AM

raygundan: Mike Chewbacca: Yeah, the Air Nomads don't look Asian at all. Where could I be getting that idea?

SOME of them look Asian. Some of them don't. Why do they all have to be Asian?

And characters in the title? You might as well argue that they're all American because they speak English with American accents. Or that the Water Tribe are Vikings because of their boats. To me, the influences you point to are clear-- there are definitely Asian influences in each culture. But they're also not the only influences, nor are the tribes ethnically pure-- and there's no indication in the story itself that these tribes are even supposed to be descendants of real-world races, let alone a single real-world race. It's a fictional world with a rich set of fictional cultures that draws deeply from a wide variety of real-world cultures. But for every Chinese-influenced Earth Kingdom temple, there's a distinctly Roman-influenced Earth Kingdom viaduct or Coliseum-style gladiatorial fights. For every igloo in the Water tribe, there's a sailboat or a boomerang.


All I really know is that the swamp benders were Creole and the blood bender was the scariest thing I'd seen in a long time.
 
2012-03-28 10:49:16 AM

eldritch2k4: ExperianScaresCthulhu: The other issue, of heritage and identity, also comes into play. How does the child who's parents do not identify with one another, identify his or herself? what happens when the child identifies in a way which is not socially acceptable? what happens when the child declines to say 'mixed' and says 'X'?

I'm gonna lead off with

[forums.watchuseek.com image 400x179]

Then, I'm gonna say: If you are asking this question and aren't of mixed heritage yourself, you can step back and fark your own face. fark you, fark your socially acceptable identifications and fark your "concern" about the whole thing. We'll farking identify however we feel comfortable.



Wow, touch a nerve there? I didn't see anything particularly disrespectful of the question (at least not the part you quoted). Seemed like an honest question out of curiosity. You having unique knowledge of the situation apparently could have used the opportunity to actually educate someone about this. Sadly, you did not.
 
2012-03-28 11:40:33 AM

thurstonxhowell: precia: brigid_fitch: Cinna's skin is implied in the book. He's from District 11, whose members, according to the book, all have dark skin and dark hair. Collins herself says that District 11 is the Deep South and is mostly populated by African Americans.

Did Collins say that about Cinna? I guess I'd be willing to believe it if she said so, but it doesn't seem in character for the Capitol to promote even a fashion prodigy from the Districts.

I don't recall anything in the books indicating that he was from anywhere but the Capitol.

Apparently, he didn't dress or speak like he was from the Capitol. Link

I don't remember and can't find any evidence he was from District 11.


Cinna was Katniss Everdeen's stylist during her campaigns through the 74th and 75th Hunger Games. He came from the Capitol and he was not like the Prep team who, to Katniss, were like "a trio of oddly colored birds pecking around her feet." Cinna, as it seemed to Katniss, was more normal than she had expected. (new window)
 
2012-03-28 11:41:44 AM
Racist? I thought everyone in that movie was Japanese.
 
2012-03-28 12:06:31 PM

Mike Chewbacca: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Mike Chewbacca: rocky_howard: Mike Chewbacca: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: rocky_howard:

Asian kids have blue eyes? News to me!


[img282.imageshack.us image 500x375]

True, that definitely can't happen in real life, except that sometimes it does, but as already discussed the world of Avatar is a *fantastical* world based on Asia, not a representation of the PRC. Blue eyes here and there don't mean that everyone important to the story becomes white and Sarah Palin is Fire Lord.

I always thought the benders' eyes match the color of the element they bend, and that's why the Water Tribe people have blue eyes, and the Fire Nation have orange/gold.

Hey, that makes lots of sense. I wonder if it's the official reason.

I have no idea. I may have simply "logicked" my way out of being mad about Inuit people having blue eyes on the show, but I think it makes sense. Plus, the creators did a great job with getting every detail right (including the exit burn on the bottom of Aang's foot after Azula zotted him while he was in the Avatar State). I just get the feeling these guys pay attention to every detail, and that nothing is an accident.

It's a cool idea, but I don't think so: the characters in the show are unable to tell by looking whether someone is a bender, what they bend, or even what nation they're from, so I don't think the eyes could be that kind of telltale. (Brown would be a slightly odd choice to represent air, too.)

It's maybe worth mentioning that a lot of the characters are from the same couple of families...maybe it's just part of giving them some family resemblance.

I haven't examined every character's eyes, but Water Tribe people ALL seem to have blue eyes, not just the Waterbenders. Aang has gray eyes, but of course he's the only Air Nomad left so that could just be an Avatar thingie. And Zuko's whole family has the orangey-gold. Toph has monochrome eyes, and I can't remember any of the other Earthbender's names, so I didn't look that u ...


It's simple. The color of the eyes reflect the element their tribe belongs to. So, the Water Tribe all have blue eyes for the color of water. The Earth Tribe has green and brown eyes for the color of dirt and the grass on it. The Fire Tribe has brownish-gold to yellow eyes for the fire's flame. The Air Tribe is tricky because what color is air? So, I think they went with dark, windy stormy days or gray.

This is especially true for benders. You can different benders apart even if they are in the same family as we've seen in the new series and still their eyes reflect it. You have the two brothers of Mako and Bolin. Mako is a fire bender so his eyes are reddish-gold and his brother, Bolin, is an earth bender so his eyes are green.
 
2012-03-28 01:00:19 PM

Heron: raygundan: Mike Chewbacca: Yeah, the Air Nomads don't look Asian at all. Where could I be getting that idea?

SOME of them look Asian. Some of them don't. Why do they all have to be Asian?

And characters in the title? You might as well argue that they're all American because they speak English with American accents. Or that the Water Tribe are Vikings because of their boats. To me, the influences you point to are clear-- there are definitely Asian influences in each culture. But they're also not the only influences, nor are the tribes ethnically pure-- and there's no indication in the story itself that these tribes are even supposed to be descendants of real-world races, let alone a single real-world race. It's a fictional world with a rich set of fictional cultures that draws deeply from a wide variety of real-world cultures. But for every Chinese-influenced Earth Kingdom temple, there's a distinctly Roman-influenced Earth Kingdom viaduct or Coliseum-style gladiatorial fights. For every igloo in the Water tribe, there's a sailboat or a boomerang.

Those aren't viking boats, those are Pacific-Northwest, Polynesian and Inuit boats. Those aren't Roman viaducts, those are Chinese viaducts, and the "gladiatorial fights" really had far more to do with modern wrestling (something very popular in Japan and Mexico), which the naming conventions used with the fighters(not to mention to Belt they were fighting over) really should have tipped you off to. Honestly, your paragraph is filled with so many assumptions that these sorts of things were only ever invented by Euros that it kind of proves the point about white-washing that you intended to argue against.


This is where you have a real chance to teach my dumb self something. While the water-tribe kayaks looked like Inuit and Polynesian construction, the large sailing/war ships looked like viking ships to me. I'd love to see more about it if you've got a link. I'm also entirely unfamiliar with any stacked-arch viaducts in China, and my brief attempts to find an example by googling have failed me-- but China is huge, and I'm just one guy. But please understand me-- I'm *not* saying these things were invented by "Euros." I'm not saying the people in the show are white. What I thought (and have since been corrected on) was that the tribes were not single races and that they were not based on single cultures-- and what I've been trying (poorly, apparently) to get across is that what I found cool was that they were not real-world races at all.

You're certainly right about the luchadors, though-- I was looking for a historical reference for big arena fights there when perhaps I should have been looking at modern references. It is without question a nod to Lucha Libre rather than gladiatorial fighting, now that you point it out.

Anyway, it's been interesting to hear from somebody as passionate and rageful about it as you are. My interpretation has been thoroughly demonstrated to be not what the creators intended. I still can't help but feel that viewed this way, the world feels less complex and rich, and it devolves into something like a four-party race war based on genetic superpowers, rather than a world of mixed-up races and polyglot cultures.
 
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