mpirooz: Are you talking politics or normal people debating?

Because, of course they all do it in politics. Problem is all conservatives apparently think they are politicians, or at least act like them.

I was speaking politics.

"Normal people debating" is a funny statement... You should replace normal with stupid as most "normal" people don't know what the hell they are talking about. Or maybe they are actually the smart ones for staying out of a never ending spiral of hate, blame, and doomsday preictions?

mrshowrules: Basically saying that Conservatives understand Liberals more than vice-versa. I would have predicted the opposite but neither am I shocked by these results. I think it is easier for an insane person to predicts the actions of a sane person than the other way around.

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I had no idea they were thinking anything

/it certainly hasn't shown

NuttierThanEver: That's because trying to follow that much cognitive dissonance hurts the brain.

mrshowrules: It is harder to predict how a stupid/insane person thinks. It is not simply a matter of picking the opposite or stupider response.

Teufelaffe: I think people are getting hung up on the "liberal" and "conservative" labels in regard to this article. Here, if we remove the politically charged terms, it's a bit easier to understand:

"People who wear wombat uteri on their heads and smear their childrens' feces all over their body find it easier to understand how sane people think than vice versa."

I thought conservatives comprised the "evil" group as opposed to the "stupid" (or insane) group. It can't be both, since to be evil implies that one has the mental capacity to recognize good from bad and has chosen bad. You guys need to decide on a slur and stick with it. This flip-flopping to suit the circumstances makes it seem like you suspect you're full of it and have to just make things up as you go along. A false impression I'm sure you'd like to avoid, right?

The problem is that liberals bought into their own narrative that conservatives are all about "hatred." If your opponent is all about hatred, then there is no need to understand, to learn, or to even examine the other's point of view. Why would you, if it's all simple hatred? There is no value or reason to look deeper; there's only one thing that can be done, and that is to defeat it and destroy it.

It makes everything so simple! Conservatives don't disagree because they have differing philosophies or values or viewpoints; they're just hateful haters! Conservatives disagree on taxes? Must be their hatred. Budget? They're haters. Defense? Hatred. Education? Hatred. Gay marriage? Abortion? Stem cell research? Hatred, hatred, hatred. Simple!

That, IMO, is what this research has uncovered.

skullkrusher: Blairr: Legalizing drugs 'cause you want to get high is not an argument I tolerate.

hehe, I do.

In any case, this is for treatment of symptoms of a medical condition but "I want to get high" is fine in my book

Which wouldn't fall into "harm" ;)

/I feel my position is strong.

Fart_Machine: RedTank: Fart_Machine: MFL: Understanding liberals is easy for conservatives. Just follow these principles.

1) Create strawman
2) Knock down strawman.

There you go.

Both sides do this. Both sides also enjoy pointing out the dichotomy you mentioned in an attempt to smear the other side while pretending to be holier than thou merely because they have the intellect to point out and/or make up such situations.

So vote Republican?

Sure if you want!

GilRuiz1: The problem is that liberals bought into their own narrative that conservatives are all about "hatred." If your opponent is all about hatred, then there is no need to understand, to learn, or to even examine the other's point of view. Why would you, if it's all simple hatred? There is no value or reason to look deeper; there's only one thing that can be done, and that is to defeat it and destroy it.

It makes everything so simple! Conservatives don't disagree because they have differing philosophies or values or viewpoints; they're just hateful haters! Conservatives disagree on taxes? Must be their hatred. Budget? They're haters. Defense? Hatred. Education? Hatred. Gay marriage? Abortion? Stem cell research? Hatred, hatred, hatred. Simple!

That, IMO, is what this research has uncovered.

Do you see what you just did there?

RedTank: I was speaking politics.

"Normal people debating" is a funny statement... You should replace normal with stupid as most "normal" people don't know what the hell they are talking about. Or maybe they are actually the smart ones for staying out of a never ending spiral of hate, blame, and doomsday preictions?

Smart? No. Ignorance is bliss. It's the information age. Back in the day being woefully misinformed was more than likely the fault of somebody else - either for spreading the misinformation or for failing to provide the proper information. Today there's no excuse to have and defend false information. You can still be stupid and know the facts.

GilRuiz1: The problem is that liberals bought into their own narrative that conservatives are all about "hatred." If your opponent is all about hatred, then there is no need to understand, to learn, or to even examine the other's point of view. Why would you, if it's all simple hatred? There is no value or reason to look deeper; there's only one thing that can be done, and that is to defeat it and destroy it.

It makes everything so simple! Conservatives don't disagree because they have differing philosophies or values or viewpoints; they're just hateful haters! Conservatives disagree on taxes? Must be their hatred. Budget? They're haters. Defense? Hatred. Education? Hatred. Gay marriage? Abortion? Stem cell research? Hatred, hatred, hatred. Simple!

That, IMO, is what this research has uncovered.

Just read it, dude. It's just words. It contains no earthshaking revelations, nothing to fear. It's very dry, and academic - nothing to get all frothy about.

skullkrusher: When all you do is take whacks at the low hanging fruit that is the GOP field these days, you could very well be a Republican who laments the loss of his party.

What the fark else is there? The whole damn party is the low-hanging fruit these days. They run their low-hanging fruit for President, for Foley's sake.

skullkrusher: which is exactly my point, my man. Is that what you're asking of me? That I call out guys on my "side" (people who fit some definition of conservatism that I do not identify with at all) rather than taking the position that *I* find to be the right one on a matter?

No, I just think that you shouldn't start making up excuses and hypothetical situations and then using them like a cudgel on everybody else around you in a desperate attempt to assure yourself that the other side is just as bad as, if not worse than, yours.

If you want to discuss things honestly, we need to start from a point in reality. I can't argue about what goes on in the hypothetical world in your head.

RedTank: When did I ever frame it like it was a new idea?


Either you were implying things not explicitly states, like both sides are equally bad at X, or you were saying something extremely obvious and meaningless, like 'there are at least some people present on any side that use tactic x'.

If the latter, why bother? If the former, /yawn.

mpirooz: RedTank: I was speaking politics.

"Normal people debating" is a funny statement... You should replace normal with stupid as most "normal" people don't know what the hell they are talking about. Or maybe they are actually the smart ones for staying out of a never ending spiral of hate, blame, and doomsday preictions?

Smart? No. Ignorance is bliss. It's the information age. Back in the day being woefully misinformed was more than likely the fault of somebody else - either for spreading the misinformation or for failing to provide the proper information. Today there's no excuse to have and defend false information. You can still be stupid and know the facts.

Ignorance is indeed bliss. But I disagree with the rest. I don't think everyone is capable of the same mental capacity to no fault of their own, and are therefore unable to understand certain dynamic concepts that involve multiple facts. These are the people I would loving label stupid. I accept them for what they are and wish them no ill will and grant them the rights and freedoms that everyone else has even if it's potentially to the detriment of society. My morality prevents me from feeling any different - perhaps my personal flaw.

That's simple.

We don't have to distort in our own minds or for other people what liberals think in order to know that it's crap.

On the other hands liberals do have to distort in their own minds or for other people what conservatives think, or their entire world view would shatter like glass.

It's basically the same principle of conservatives talking vs liberals talking.

Liberals do everything they can to try to shut conservatives up, because they know what happens when people hear it.

Conservatives do everything they can to get liberals to keep talking, because they know what happens when people hear it.

RedTank: My morality prevents me from feeling any different - perhaps my personal flaw.

I bet at job interviews your greatest flaw is working TOO hard and being TOO dedicated to the company, am I right?

Pat yourself on the back sir, you are a champion!

Smackledorfer: RedTank: When did I ever frame it like it was a new idea?


Either you were implying things not explicitly states, like both sides are equally bad at X, or you were saying something extremely obvious and meaningless, like 'there are at least some people present on any side that use tactic x'.

If the latter, why bother? If the former, /yawn.

Ok. So if it's obvious that an avalanche is going to hit each of us in 30 seconds but we instead choose to stand still and argue about whose shadow is longer whoever of the two of us that point to the avalanche is wasting their time?

Besides that you didn't answer my question - How would you chose to convince someone to believe in what you do?

I alone am best: I grew up dirt poor. I think I know poverty better than most of the people on here and I'm willing to bet I know it better than you do.

Um, no.

If in fact this is even true, it just makes you appear even more out of touch and unsympathetic concerning people that are in similar situations.

Face it: you get a ZERO for claiming to know let alone understand other people's needs.

Again, honesty. I'm not seeing much of it in your posts.

RedTank: Ignorance is indeed bliss. But I disagree with the rest. I don't think everyone is capable of the same mental capacity to no fault of their own, and are therefore unable to understand certain dynamic concepts that involve multiple facts. These are the people I would loving label stupid. I accept them for what they are and wish them no ill will and grant them the rights and freedoms that everyone else has even if it's potentially to the detriment of society. My morality prevents me from feeling any different - perhaps my personal flaw.

Naw I agree with you completely to a degree.. even to the point of being detrimental; conflict is unavoidable and better when confronted. Buuuut, I am a big believer in humility, and certainly no stranger to hurting feelings to get that point across.

Smackledorfer: RedTank: My morality prevents me from feeling any different - perhaps my personal flaw.

I bet at job interviews your greatest flaw is working TOO hard and being TOO dedicated to the company, am I right?

Pat yourself on the back sir, you are a champion!

I have MANY personal flaws but try to be consistant ideologically. Sorry you're offended, I'm not trying to say I'm better than you. If that's what you think then you don't understand what I'm saying which again isn't a fault to you but to me.

skullkrusher: I *am* the other side for the most part. I am actually on your "side" to a great degree. I just find a lot of people on this side to be dishonest and phony. Don't try to pull this BSABSVR crap on me

You assume people on "this side" are dishonest and phony, based solely on what you think they might do in a hypothetical situation you've concocted. That's my point.

I'm not going to argue on your voting record or what have you, because, much like Weav or hubie, I have no idea if what you're saying is true or not and it's not my place to say. But based on your actions, you are simply looking for reasons to cry about media bias and hate on the other posters on this forum. You're trolling, and I'm sick of seeing it, especially since you didn't used to be like this.

SkinnyHead: Liberals are more child-like in their outlook; conservatives more adult.

I wish I was not getting sick & having the start of a pretty painful headache going or I would boisterously laugh out loud interrupting my co-workers. That has got to be the darned funniest thing I've ever seen you type. To bad you are serious.

MFL: Understanding liberals is easy for conservatives. Just follow these principles...

Your trolling is bad and you should feel bad.

At least make an effort and have some pride in your work. I was embarrassed for you just from reading this, you should be farking humiliated that you actually wrote it.

skullkrusher: HeartBurnKid: You assume people on "this side" are dishonest and phony, based solely on what you think they might do in a hypothetical situation you've concocted. That's my point.

dude, I wasn't referring specifically to this case. Fine, if you don't think his latino background would have been played up if he were the victim of a white shooter, that's cool. I disagree but whatever.

It's not just this case. You do this shiat all the time. You make up a situation where you expect people would fall short of your standards, and you lambaste them for it, when, since the situation only exists in your head, they haven't actually done anything wrong.

SkinnyHead: Liberals are more child-like in their outlook; conservatives more adult.

I know I'm late to the party, but this was a masterwork. Perhaps not brilliance, not genius, but perfectly executed. Without flaw. 9.11/10

HeartBurnKid: It's not just this case. You do this shiat all the time. You make up a situation where you expect people would fall short of your standards, and you lambaste them for it, when, since the situation only exists in your head, they haven't actually done anything wrong.

I had a girlfriend who used to dream that I was cheating on her and would be livid when she woke up. skullkrusher is being about as rational but I guess when reality doesn't support your world view you need to retreat into fantasy for evidence that you're in the right.

Deftoons: gameshowhost: Education makes one support Ron Paul, my friend. Education.

FTFY

RedTank: Smackledorfer: RedTank: My morality prevents me from feeling any different - perhaps my personal flaw.

I bet at job interviews your greatest flaw is working TOO hard and being TOO dedicated to the company, am I right?

Pat yourself on the back sir, you are a champion!

I have MANY personal flaws but try to be consistant ideologically. Sorry you're offended, I'm not trying to say I'm better than you. If that's what you think then you don't understand what I'm saying which again isn't a fault to you but to me.

Oh, you confuse my laughing at the absurdity of lauding ones greatness on the internet with being offended by it. By all means, keep telling us how you are so great that your flaws are an excess of greatness.

GilRuiz1: Conservatives disagree on taxes? Must be their hatred. Budget? They're haters. Defense? Hatred. Education? Hatred. Gay marriage? Abortion? Stem cell research? Hatred, hatred, hatred. Simple!


Come to think of it, let's just use your list. On taxes, Conservatives (despite calling themselves "Christians") side with the wealthy, every time. Why? It's not like the wealthy are going to starve to death if asked to pay 4% more taxes. So what logical sense does it make to argue in favor of lower taxes for the rich, when even the rich aren't in favor of it? Hatefulness. Or as Palin so eloquently put it, "to upset a Liberal".

On the budget: why exactly did Republicans force a giant drama over the debt ceiling, when they raised it seven times under Bush? Aside from hatefulness, I mean. Because of their newfound conviction to fiscal responsibility, discovered only after a black man became President?

Defense: We already have enough nukes to wipe out all life on Earth ten times over. Our military is almost as big as the rest of the world's combined. And yet, spending money to provide health care for Americans is "wrong". Let me repeat that: Murdering Arab children: good. Giving health care to American children: bad. But of course, that's not hatefulness. Right?

Education: starting a campaign of puerile attacks on the Nation's teachers, calling them "lazy" and "overpaid" while simultaneously referring to Obama as a "snob" for encouraging children to go to college isn't "hateful". No, not at all.

Gay Marriage: Seriously? Must I do this one? "Hatefulness" is their ONLY justification. Gay Marriage doesn't have to effect them in any way whatsoever. They're completely free to ignore it. And the Republicans most vocally against it are typically guys like Limbaugh and Newt, who've gone through six wives between them. Or are secretly gay themselves. If this doesn't qualify as "hatefulness" to you, what the hell does?

Abortion: It takes a special kind of hatefulness to say, as Santorum has, that even a ten-year-old rape victim who will surely die in delivery should be forced to carry the child of her rapist. And yes, that's exactly what his position is.

Stem Cell Research: it's either hatefulness or stupidity. Take your pick. Stem Cell Research has the potential to help every single human being on the planet. There's no downside. The cells they want to use for research never, ever could have become "a child".

So yeah. It IS hatred. Unless you can come up with some sort of reasonable explanation for any of those Republican positions, that in no way includes "Because I'm a douchebag who can't be happy unless I'm subjugating other people."

Mavent: So yeah. It IS hatred. Unless you can come up with some sort of reasonable explanation for any of those Republican positions, that in no way includes "Because I'm a douchebag who can't be happy unless I'm subjugating other people."

The ignorant being led by the greedy and power-hungry who can take advantage of it. People can do all sorts of nasty things to you without giving two shiats about you, positive or negative. All of the points you mentioned can be easily explained by greed.

Mavent: So yeah. It IS hatred. Unless you can come up with some sort of reasonable explanation for any of those Republican positions, that in no way includes "Because I'm a douchebag who can't be happy unless I'm subjugating other people."


No, you're absolutely, 100% right; it's nothing but pure hatred. The researchers are obviously wrong. No reason for you to give it any more thought. Off you go.

Smackledorfer: RedTank: Smackledorfer: RedTank: My morality prevents me from feeling any different - perhaps my personal flaw.

I bet at job interviews your greatest flaw is working TOO hard and being TOO dedicated to the company, am I right?

Pat yourself on the back sir, you are a champion!

I have MANY personal flaws but try to be consistant ideologically. Sorry you're offended, I'm not trying to say I'm better than you. If that's what you think then you don't understand what I'm saying which again isn't a fault to you but to me.

Oh, you confuse my laughing at the absurdity of lauding ones greatness on the internet with being offended by it. By all means, keep telling us how you are so great that your flaws are an excess of greatness.

If you see it as being "greatness" then that maybe says more about you than me as I never said I was better than anyone. but It's clearly your personal opineon by which I'm truly honored!

This

NuttierThanEver: That's because trying to follow that much cognitive dissonance hurts the brain.

We demand Small government but we want the right to tell what can happen in your bedroom!
We demand lower taxes but we want to continue to give subsidies to the oil companies!

this

GWLush: This article is right though. I am constantly baffled by Conservatives on a daily basis. They seem to change with the talking points that are force fed to them. It seems their only motivation is taking out the Liberals even if it means destroying our country in the process or setting us back 50 years at least. If they see something as Liberal like the EPA or DOE then it must be destroyed.

Conservatives today seem to be on a holy crusade where their enemy is all things liberal.

and this

Lando Lincoln: I used to be a conservative. Now I am a liberal. So yes, I totally understand the two mindsets.

Conservatism is based on fear and anger, but the core of it is personal insecurities.

SkinnyHead: Liberals are more child-like in their outlook; conservatives more adult.

Actually, the article posits just the opposite. Conservatives are more likely to respond to authority, and the are more likely to want there to be authority. They also apply the concept of sacredness and sanctity to more things. This is actually a more child-like and immature mindset. It shows less independence of thought.

skullkrusher: Saiga410: firefly212: just think more and more of the fark conservatives (good people like Weaver) aren't onboard with the new faux-conservatism

Has that boy came down from the derp pill that is economic populism? I swear on day he got curmudgeon and started yelling at clouds screaming about they are taking our jorbs money.

hehe Weavs and Hubie are the favorite conservatives of Fark liberals. Quite possibly because they never, ever disagree with them on anything :)

lol, I disagree with Weaver on plenty, but I can appreciate his brand of conservatism because though we have deeply different views over what the role of government should be, he is consistent with his views and tries to build on them logically. The conservatives I can't take are the ones who are arguing on both sides of the fence all the time... they want more government in my bedroom, my church, and apparently even what I fap to, but they still say they're for "smaller government."

A interesting question would be what liberals and conservatives think moderates believe in.

My observation is that a majority of conservatives think moderates are 1) liberals who won't admit it or 2) someone who hasn't picked a side yet.

I consider myself a moderate, 20 years ago I was a conservative, now conservatives call me a liberal. Funny thing is my core beliefs haven't changed much. Right now I'm in a cycle where conservatives are harder for me to relate to.

RedTank: If you see it as being "greatness" then that maybe says more about you than me as I never said I was better than anyone. but It's clearly your personal opineon by which I'm truly honored!

Well, either you talked yourself up and then threw on the bit where "my greatness is my flaw" to just add some full-of-yourselfness, or you honestly believe compassion is a flaw. I found the latter hard to believe.

A University of Toronto study found that if people were asked to wash their hands with soap and water before filling out a questionnaire, they become more moralistic about issues like drug use and pornography.

I dunno -- I wash my hands as soon as I get into work and about every hour or two afterwards, and I love drug use and pornography.

/Insofar as alcohol is a form of self-medication, anyway.

Smackledorfer: Mavent: So yeah. It IS hatred. Unless you can come up with some sort of reasonable explanation for any of those Republican positions, that in no way includes "Because I'm a douchebag who can't be happy unless I'm subjugating other people."

The ignorant being led by the greedy and power-hungry who can take advantage of it. People can do all sorts of nasty things to you without giving two shiats about you, positive or negative. All of the points you mentioned can be easily explained by greed.

I have no doubt that most of the Republican power structure is comprised of guys exactly like Bill O'Reilly and Mitt Romney: callow opportunists who are in it only for the money. But let's not forget that the average Republican voter doesn't even remotely believe that they're going to benefit financially from, say, keeping Gays from marrying. Greed isn't a motivating factor for them, and "ignorance" is no excuse. Ignorance keeps a person from becoming a heart surgeon. It takes Hate to get a person to vote for something like Prop 8.

Mavent: Smackledorfer: Mavent: So yeah. It IS hatred. Unless you can come up with some sort of reasonable explanation for any of those Republican positions, that in no way includes "Because I'm a douchebag who can't be happy unless I'm subjugating other people."

The ignorant being led by the greedy and power-hungry who can take advantage of it. People can do all sorts of nasty things to you without giving two shiats about you, positive or negative. All of the points you mentioned can be easily explained by greed.

I have no doubt that most of the Republican power structure is comprised of guys exactly like Bill O'Reilly and Mitt Romney: callow opportunists who are in it only for the money. But let's not forget that the average Republican voter doesn't even remotely believe that they're going to benefit financially from, say, keeping Gays from marrying. Greed isn't a motivating factor for them, and "ignorance" is no excuse. Ignorance keeps a person from becoming a heart surgeon. It takes Hate to get a person to vote for something like Prop 8.

You put ignorance in quotes like you don't believe its a real word :D

Link (new window)

Even the example of ignorance involves racism. Fact is, some people really are stupid enough and/or misinformed enough to believe things like gay marriage ruin their society, or blacks marrying whites. They just learned it from someone, locked it into place, and avoid seeing things any other way.

But I'll agree to disagree for sure. Its difficult to pin down the true underlying reasoning beyond such things. If it were simple, we'd have solved the problems already.

Good Lord, take a gander at the Fark Lib circle jerk with value-added TotalFark liberal circle jerk at the beginning of the thread! Outstandingly predictable from a mere headline.

tenpoundsofcheese: Tell me one bill that promoted child labor and 20 hour work weeks.
Tell me one bill that promoted 1850 style treatment of women and minorities.
Go ahead, I'll wait.

Well, unions are what ended child labor, started overtime and protected workers safety.
So, any law that tries to weaken or destroy unions is an attempt to undo these things.

Ergo, the Republican war on union labor (public and private) qualifies.
Would you like a list of Republican anti-union bills?
Or can you use the google like a big-boy?