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(Fox Sports)   Quebec City to start construction on a NHL rink to be completed in time to house the NY Islanders, Florida Panthers, Phoenix Coyotes, New Jersey Devils, Dallas Stars, or Columbus Blue Jackets when they move there   (msn.foxsports.com) divider line 47
    More: Interesting, Florida Panthers, Phoenix Coyotes, New Jersey Devils, Dallas Stars, Islanders, Blue Jackets, Quebec City, NHL  
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704 clicks; posted to Sports » on 26 Mar 2012 at 4:17 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-03-26 12:08:32 PM
2 votes:
There may be valid reasons that the current Coyotes franchise is not viable in that market.

But arguments based on climate are dumb. All NHL games (except for Winter Classics) are played in climate-controlled, indoor arenas. All minor hockey is played indoors. All college and high school hockey is played indoors. All midget and bantam and peewee hockey is played indoors. Climate is irrelevant these days, and it is not a barrier.

Emotional appeals to images of pond hockey are just that. How many NHLers from anywhere develop their skills playing pond hockey these days? My guess is basically none. Even if kids in Canada and Minnesota are able to play the odd game of shinny on a pond, they still primarily develop their skills in organized leagues.
2012-03-26 11:40:11 AM
2 votes:
Phoenix makes the most sense, for the financial reasons and because it's a western team moving into the east allowing Winnipeg to bump into the west.

Also, Winnipeg and Quebec could do a paper franchise swap, allowing Winnipeg to get the old Jets franchise history and logos back.
2012-03-26 04:36:52 AM
2 votes:
The NHL would be so God damn stupid if they moved the Stars, especially now that they are out of the Tom Hicks bankruptcy era and have a solid chance to get back to the playoffs (this has been their longest playoff drought in Dallas). Oh yeah and it's a top 5 market and probably has more long term stability than any other southern market since most are small markets. Florida and Arizona are bad sports markets in general as well, go after those teams first. Don't pull a David Stern and get rid of a good market (ie Seattle or Dallas) for some small market (OKC or Quebec City). It would help kill any love for hockey in a pretty large area. I'm not saying Ville de Quebec doesn't deserve a team but please take the Florida Panthers or the Phoenix Coyotes first.
2012-03-25 11:30:37 PM
2 votes:

slayer199: Because the Nordiques did so well the first time around?


The 67 cent dollar screwed them (and Winnipeg) last time. With the dollar basically at par, the math works just fine.
2012-03-25 11:27:40 PM
2 votes:

mikemoto: The Islanders are moving to Brooklyn to join the Nets. The Stars are staying in Dallas. The Devils have a fairly new arena in Newark. The other teams, particularly Phoenix, are possibilities to move.


Phoenix is only still in Phoenix because getting out of that arena deal is too expensive, they lose less money staying.
Subby missed Nashville too. The most likely to move is Columbus. No real history there, and you have to win, a lot, to get the fans to you know, be fans. I see you looking at Toronto and saying WTF they don't win... They have that history, and a fair bit of winning in that history.
2012-03-26 08:26:54 PM
1 votes:

MFAWG: Yanks_RSJ: rka: But alas, Phoenix has had enough time to figure this out. If it's bad business, it's bad business.

Nonsense, the league needs to keep throwing money down a black hole - there's a fanbase just waiting to embrace the Coyotes, you'll see!

Bear in mind, this is a market that barely cares about the Diamondbacks even when they're winning.

I think the Coyotes are headed to Seattle about 10 minutes after their last playoff game, and I suspect that's been a done deal for a while.

They'd lose 12 to 15 million a year playing at the Key, which is about half what they lose now. In 3 or 4 years they'll have a brand new arena to move into.


A Seattle ownership group ain't paying the $200 million that it would cost to make the NHL whole from the Phoenix fiasco. Quebec City is the only town that would be willing to pay that.
2012-03-26 03:42:41 PM
1 votes:

TheJoe03: The NHL would be so God damn stupid if they moved the Stars, especially now that they are out of the Tom Hicks bankruptcy era


Lulz; Tom Hicks. There's a two-bit Texas turd for you.

Farked up on the Rangers, Stars AND Liverpool Football Club. Then when the banks seized LFC he was going to sue everybody and their dead ancestors for losing the club. Haven't heard anything on that front yet; probably because if he were to sue, his books are probably so cooked he'd face all sorts of lawsuits/criminal actions here in the States.

Fark Tom Hicks, that is all. XD
2012-03-26 03:28:09 PM
1 votes:

Doc Daneeka: There may be valid reasons that the current Coyotes franchise is not viable in that market.

But arguments based on climate are dumb. All NHL games (except for Winter Classics) are played in climate-controlled, indoor arenas. All minor hockey is played indoors. All college and high school hockey is played indoors. All midget and bantam and peewee hockey is played indoors. Climate is irrelevant these days, and it is not a barrier.

Emotional appeals to images of pond hockey are just that. How many NHLers from anywhere develop their skills playing pond hockey these days? My guess is basically none. Even if kids in Canada and Minnesota are able to play the odd game of shinny on a pond, they still primarily develop their skills in organized leagues.


The Winter "Classic" will be the first 2 point game any player has ever played outdoors.

Canada is down to just a very few leagues who play outdoors, and they are exclusively house leagues and most (all?) are in cities cold enough to maintain ice but warm enough so kids aren't playing in -20C weather. I know of only one league which is exclusively outdoors.

Everything else is indoors and has been for a long time.
2012-03-26 03:10:17 PM
1 votes:

DenisBergkamp: Doc Daneeka: There may be valid reasons that the current Coyotes franchise is not viable in that market.

But arguments based on climate are dumb. All NHL games (except for Winter Classics) are played in climate-controlled, indoor arenas. All minor hockey is played indoors. All college and high school hockey is played indoors. All midget and bantam and peewee hockey is played indoors. Climate is irrelevant these days, and it is not a barrier.

Emotional appeals to images of pond hockey are just that. How many NHLers from anywhere develop their skills playing pond hockey these days? My guess is basically none. Even if kids in Canada and Minnesota are able to play the odd game of shinny on a pond, they still primarily develop their skills in organized leagues.

Nothing to do with nationalism like some people ALWAYS feel the need to make these threads but to think that almost no NHLers played outside on makeshift rinks is being willfully ignorant. I don't know how much it is done across the border but backyard rinks, flooded parks and hell, hockey on the St Lawrence are a common occurrence even today.

Maybe they do this in Minny as well, I couldn't tell ya, but this isn't an emotional appeal about good ol shinny games, it's something damn near every person has done if they were a kid and played hockey.


You misunderstood my point. Read it again.

The point was, even though kids in northern climates are able to play shinny on ponds and backyard rinks, that's irrelevant. It's not necessary. Because no matter where they are located (including Canada), players primarily develop their skills in organized leagues. All of which take place in indoor rinks.
2012-03-26 02:28:32 PM
1 votes:

germ78: I refuse to allow the Florida Panthers to move since they have the best goal calls in all of hockey.

/especially for them to move to a French-speaking city
//blasphemy


Thank you for tear-inducing laughter today, I didn't know about this.
2012-03-26 01:56:32 PM
1 votes:

DenisBergkamp: Weirdest experience is being all bleary eyed and thinking I was seeing kids play street hockey until I got close enough to notice the Hurling sticks. What's your buddies bar called?


It's called "The Rock Bar" (yeah, crap name), I believe it's in one of the hotels, but I can't remember which one.

I lived there from '94-'99, and got to see Dublin win the All Ireland. Almost as much fun as seeing the Cup parade in Boston last Summer.
2012-03-26 01:48:43 PM
1 votes:

keylock71: DenisBergkamp: d often for liking hockey while living in Dublin til the one day I saw hurling at Croke park. Seriously fun sport to watch.

I lived in Dublin for about 5 years and got a good friend of mine into hockey while he got me into Hurling and Gaelic Football...

He works in a Club in Temple Bar, and he's set up a "Boston Bruins Shrine" behind the bar with all the crap I've sent him over the years.


Hah awesome. The only place I could watch a damn hockey game was the Woolshed on Parnell st since their sky sports package carried some of it. Don't quite understand why more of them wouldn't get into it.

Weirdest experience is being all bleary eyed and thinking I was seeing kids play street hockey until I got close enough to notice the Hurling sticks. What's your buddies bar called?
2012-03-26 01:44:39 PM
1 votes:
The mistake the Coyotes made was building the arena so far outside of town. The only way you're going to pull in a lot of people to games in Arizona is by getting the crowd who just wants something to do for a few hours during a night out on the town. Building the arena thirty minutes outside of downtown precludes those people and also kills your own visibility in the area.

Columbus did it right. There's an entire part of downtown centered around the arena, and they've got Blue Jackets shiat plastered everywhere. You can't miss it, so even if you could not give a single fark about hockey you still know if you want something to do downtown that you can just go get tickets on the cheap. They made the Blue Jackets part of the Columbus experience despite the fact that the team sucks and nobody there played hockey a decade ago.
2012-03-26 01:40:51 PM
1 votes:

DenisBergkamp: d often for liking hockey while living in Dublin til the one day I saw hurling at Croke park. Seriously fun sport to watch.


I lived in Dublin for about 5 years and got a good friend of mine into hockey while he got me into Hurling and Gaelic Football...

He works in a Club in Temple Bar, and he's set up a "Boston Bruins Shrine" behind the bar with all the crap I've sent him over the years.
2012-03-26 01:38:28 PM
1 votes:

DenisBergkamp: I was teased often for liking hockey while living in Dublin til the one day I saw hurling at Croke park. Seriously fun sport to watch.


Indeed, it is... There are a number of amateur leagues in the Boston area, too. (Also other areas with large Paddy populations, too, I would imagine)

Up the Dubs!

www.hoganstand.com
2012-03-26 01:09:30 PM
1 votes:
Hockey in warm climates? Wait, basketball season is played during the winter months where there's snow...

HEAD EXPLODE!!!!
2012-03-26 01:06:09 PM
1 votes:
Can we contract a half dozen teams now? Please?
2012-03-26 12:34:16 PM
1 votes:
I'd love to see an NHL team in Quebec again...
rka
2012-03-26 12:19:39 PM
1 votes:

Doc Daneeka: There may be valid reasons that the current Coyotes franchise is not viable in that market.

But arguments based on climate are dumb. All NHL games (except for Winter Classics) are played in climate-controlled, indoor arenas. All minor hockey is played indoors. All college and high school hockey is played indoors. All midget and bantam and peewee hockey is played indoors. Climate is irrelevant these days, and it is not a barrier.

Emotional appeals to images of pond hockey are just that. How many NHLers from anywhere develop their skills playing pond hockey these days? My guess is basically none. Even if kids in Canada and Minnesota are able to play the odd game of shinny on a pond, they still primarily develop their skills in organized leagues.


Cmon now, every Olympics we get Gretzky tearfully reminding everyone that hockey is Canada's game. Don't take that away from them.

But alas, Phoenix has had enough time to figure this out. If it's bad business, it's bad business.
2012-03-26 12:14:14 PM
1 votes:

Doc Daneeka: There may be valid reasons that the current Coyotes franchise is not viable in that market.

But arguments based on climate are dumb. All NHL games (except for Winter Classics) are played in climate-controlled, indoor arenas. All minor hockey is played indoors. All college and high school hockey is played indoors. All midget and bantam and peewee hockey is played indoors. Climate is irrelevant these days, and it is not a barrier.

Emotional appeals to images of pond hockey are just that. How many NHLers from anywhere develop their skills playing pond hockey these days? My guess is basically none. Even if kids in Canada and Minnesota are able to play the odd game of shinny on a pond, they still primarily develop their skills in organized leagues.



Oh stop being so American.
2012-03-26 11:59:15 AM
1 votes:

Aar1012: Because when I think hockey....I think Arizona


So professional basketball should only be played in Harlem? Is that right, Adolf?
2012-03-26 11:24:35 AM
1 votes:

Mr_Ectomy: Doc Daneeka: Seriously though, if anything is "hockey on grass," it's lacrosse.

Um...about that

[img.archiexpo.com image 640x452]


Did you read the rest of my post?

Yes, field hockey is "hockey on grass" in a technical sense. But I would say that box lacrosse has a much closer spiritual kinship to ice hockey than field hockey does.
2012-03-26 11:01:07 AM
1 votes:

bhcompy: But soccer is like hockey on grass!


Yeah, except for the much slower pace. And no hitting or physicality. And much more frequent diving. And much less frequent scoring. And very few shots on goal, and even fewer decent scoring chances. And an offsides rule seemingly designed specifically to stifle offense.

But aside from that, exactly the same!

Seriously though, if anything is "hockey on grass," it's lacrosse. Even more so than field hockey, because field hockey doesn't quite capture the same spirit.
2012-03-26 10:47:22 AM
1 votes:
If only Atlanta had a third team to ship to Canada....
2012-03-26 10:31:18 AM
1 votes:

Malcolm_Sex: If Quebec gets a team I think that about wraps up the Canadian teams in the league since I doubt Toronto will ever allow another team in the area and I think Don Cherry suggesting Saskatoon is kind of a joke.


It is a joke, but it's on Don Cherry. Grapes is dead serious, however.
2012-03-26 10:20:16 AM
1 votes:

Time Traveling Bunnies: Came here to say this. Is it possible for Atlanta to get a team and lose it by 2015? If anyone has a chance, it would be Atl.

Sadly I'd be okay with this because at least for two or three years, I'd be able to see a live game again.


Here here. I very much enjoyed going to Thrashers games (it would have been more fun if they won), but you can't have an ownership group as bad as the Atlanta Spirit Group and expect to succeed. It takes people who are actual hockey fans and will invest in the team to succeed here. Hockey in Atlanta can work, but it's certainly an uphill battle.
2012-03-26 10:17:22 AM
1 votes:
Columbus isn't going anywhere. The Jackets still pull decent numbers despite sucking majorly. They are too important to the city of Columbus and downtown is built around them now. Hockey is a big deal in Columbus, with packed rec leagues. I don't see the NHL wanting to alienate those eyeballs.
2012-03-26 10:13:12 AM
1 votes:

Rev.K: bhcompy: Nothing wrong with the desert as a location.

Except that in 16 years they can't secure a fanbase that will actually make the team profitable.

I'm not a militant "hockey in Canada" Canadian. I'm fine with the NHL putting a team anywhere that it can be supported and loved, but Phoenix is incapable of providing that.

The team has lost money every year for 16 years and is now owned by the NHL, which means that revenues from the other 29 teams are keeping that franchise afloat. It's mind-boggling how the other owners are okay with this, when there are other locations where making a profit is far, far more likely to happen.

Like Quebec City.


That's fine. Don't blame the desert, blame the fans.

/and for what it's worth, youth hockey does pretty well in the southwest
2012-03-26 10:05:55 AM
1 votes:

bhcompy: Nothing wrong with the desert as a location.


Except that in 16 years they can't secure a fanbase that will actually make the team profitable.

I'm not a militant "hockey in Canada" Canadian. I'm fine with the NHL putting a team anywhere that it can be supported and loved, but Phoenix is incapable of providing that.

The team has lost money every year for 16 years and is now owned by the NHL, which means that revenues from the other 29 teams are keeping that franchise afloat. It's mind-boggling how the other owners are okay with this, when there are other locations where making a profit is far, far more likely to happen.

Like Quebec City.
2012-03-26 09:53:57 AM
1 votes:

slayer199: sno man: The 67 cent dollar screwed them (and Winnipeg) last time. With the dollar basically at par, the math works just fine.

True. Attendance wasn't the problem in Winnipeg. Too bad for the Nordiques...the Avs were a pretty good hockey team and I hated them dearly.


The Avs were good but as someone wisely pointed out, they never would have gotten Patrick Roy if they were still in Quebec City. Anyways, the move of the Coyotes has pretty much been an open secret in Quebec for sometime now. The Colisee is getting a 38 million dollar renovation over the summer, the Remparts (the Junior team) staff have been told to move their items out when the season ends and the second major Quebec sports channel have been hiring talent for games next fall.
2012-03-26 09:48:33 AM
1 votes:

Rev.K: slayer199: Because the Nordiques did so well the first time around?

If they can make even a dollar in profit, they'll have made more than the Coyotes.

16 years in the desert and not a f*cking penny made.


Nothing wrong with the desert as a location. Hardly anyone plays baseball in the concrete jungle of New York City, but the Yankees and Mets do well enough.
2012-03-26 09:44:55 AM
1 votes:

slayer199: Because the Nordiques did so well the first time around?


If they can make even a dollar in profit, they'll have made more than the Coyotes.

16 years in the desert and not a f*cking penny made.
2012-03-26 09:34:39 AM
1 votes:
Franklin County just bought Nationwide Arena from Nationwide Insurance, using new casino money. Franklin County then turned around and gave the Blue Jackets a new sweetheart deal. The new lease is a long-term deal with almost no rent owed by the teams. Sorry folks, the Blue Jackets aren't going anywhere, including up in the standings.
2012-03-26 09:26:54 AM
1 votes:
Dear Quebec people,

If you steal the Panthers, you won't have hockey games to go to when you're down here clogging up our roads and leaving a $2 tip on a $20 tab.

Thanks,

South Florida
2012-03-26 09:21:04 AM
1 votes:

Cybernetic: They're doing it wrong. First they need to get one of those other teams to move to Atlanta. Once a team is in Atlanta, they're a lock to go to Canada a few years later.


Came here to say this. Is it possible for Atlanta to get a team and lose it by 2015? If anyone has a chance, it would be Atl.

Sadly I'd be okay with this because at least for two or three years, I'd be able to see a live game again.
2012-03-26 09:12:18 AM
1 votes:
If Quebec gets a team I think that about wraps up the Canadian teams in the league since I doubt Toronto will ever allow another team in the area and I think Don Cherry suggesting Saskatoon is kind of a joke.
2012-03-26 09:01:22 AM
1 votes:
They're doing it wrong. First they need to get one of those other teams to move to Atlanta. Once a team is in Atlanta, they're a lock to go to Canada a few years later.
2012-03-26 08:51:13 AM
1 votes:
I still have a Quebec jersey (sweater, whatever) that I love dearly. I always thought it was a great logo. Also, I am surprised that Phoenix has survived this long. They would be my pick to go.
2012-03-26 08:34:41 AM
1 votes:

sno man: mikemoto: The Islanders are moving to Brooklyn to join the Nets. The Stars are staying in Dallas. The Devils have a fairly new arena in Newark. The other teams, particularly Phoenix, are possibilities to move.

Phoenix is only still in Phoenix because getting out of that arena deal is too expensive, they lose less money staying.
Subby missed Nashville too. The most likely to move is Columbus. No real history there, and you have to win, a lot, to get the fans to you know, be fans. I see you looking at Toronto and saying WTF they don't win... They have that history, and a fair bit of winning in that history.


Other than the Bluejackets being signed into some kind of super long term deal where they cannot leave the city..(not sure about the specifics but it is brought up every time someone tries to mention a move)
2012-03-26 07:19:16 AM
1 votes:
Devils, Panthers, and Stars aren't moving. Devils have a beautiful new arena, Panthers reportedly have a good arena situation and stable ownership, and the Stars just got new ownership.

Blue Jackets should stay where they are. Ohio is a big important northern market and important for the NHL to have a team there. The have no other pro sports in Columbus, only Ohio State. It should work there. The fan support has been decent for a team that has always been terrible and never even won a playoff game. Team shouldn't be moved just because they've been bad on the ice.

Isles probably won't stay in Nassau after their lease is up in 2015, but if they do move, it will probably be to Brooklyn. It looks like the groundwork is already being laid for that. Keep in mind that Bettman was an Isles fan growing up. He probably won't want to see that team move out of market.

That leaves Phoenix, and who the hell knows? Depend son how long the league is willing to own the team while they look for an owner.

Don't completely rule out another expansion either. With one team going to QC and one going west to Kansas City or Seattle, both of which have expressed strong interest in getting a team.
2012-03-26 05:58:36 AM
1 votes:
Just as I was starting to follow the coyotes, they're going to move. Oh well, maybe I'll become a Rangers fan when I move to New York.

Meh.
2012-03-26 05:07:07 AM
1 votes:
I can't see the Devils or Stars going anywhere, all the other teams listed could easily pack up and leave. Florida seems to enjoy losing teams so maybe it'll be the Panthers next.
2012-03-26 03:38:49 AM
1 votes:

sno man: The 67 cent dollar screwed them (and Winnipeg) last time. With the dollar basically at par, the math works just fine.


True. Attendance wasn't the problem in Winnipeg. Too bad for the Nordiques...the Avs were a pretty good hockey team and I hated them dearly.
2012-03-26 12:54:05 AM
1 votes:

mikemoto: The Islanders are moving to Brooklyn to join the Nets. The Stars are staying in Dallas. The Devils have a fairly new arena in Newark. The other teams, particularly Phoenix, are possibilities to move.


When the Lighthouse failed I feared the worst, but there seems to be enough talk that I don't think the Islanders are leaving the NY area. The Nets' arena would be great location-wise, especially with the LIRR going right there, but supposedly the design isn't 100% suitable for hockey. Even with that it's probably better than the Coliseum, especially now that things have gotten more asbestos-y (new window). Thanks again, Kate Murray and the Town of Hempstead!

And yeah, the Devils aren't leaving anytime soon even if they're not drawing so well. That arena is actually really nice.
2012-03-26 12:51:50 AM
1 votes:
I refuse to allow the Florida Panthers to move since they have the best goal calls in all of hockey.

/especially for them to move to a French-speaking city
//blasphemy
2012-03-25 11:15:51 PM
1 votes:
Because the Nordiques did so well the first time around?
2012-03-25 11:10:17 PM
1 votes:
The Islanders are moving to Brooklyn to join the Nets. The Stars are staying in Dallas. The Devils have a fairly new arena in Newark. The other teams, particularly Phoenix, are possibilities to move.
 
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