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(The Raw Story)   If black kids didn't want to get shot they'd dress more like Urkel or Skip Gates. (Video)   (rawstory.com ) divider line
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8358 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Mar 2012 at 12:17 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-26 10:33:22 AM  

HAMMERTOE: karmaceutical: I can't have an opinion on this till Bill Cosby weighs in on the matter.

Good luck. Bill Cosby's son was killed by hoodie-wearing thugs.


Poor Theo. He was such a nice boy.
 
2012-03-26 10:36:32 AM  

rickot1: It doesn't contain more data. Its a lighter photo. Lighter photos contain far less data.


Actually, the pixel data should be exactly the same, just with different, misleading values for the RGB info.
 
2012-03-26 10:39:29 AM  
Actually, Ennis was murdered by a Russkie. But... a hood-wearing Russkie.

/Well, actually a cap.../
 
2012-03-26 10:45:47 AM  

Little.Alex: ...No, because that wouldn't help get Obama re-elected. And that's what this is about.


Waitwhathuh? OMGWTFBBQ?

Little.Alex: ...The police reaction is another matter entirely, I'm in agreement with you there, I'm just talking ...
Zimmerman had taken classes at a local college to try and become a cop, but didn't get on to the Police Dept. I think it's more about mental illness and frustration than racism.


I think there is a very important issue of race here. I don't know what motivated Zimmerman, but if he shot Trayvon because Trayvon was black, that has bearing on the case, both the civil rights/hate crime and the shooting itself.

I have a colleague who insists that guns make for a more polite society. If that were true, I would vote for arming everyone, but I've never seen evidence of that. We have more weapons now and a less polite society; it's not necessarily causation, but the correlation shows that the "more polite society" argument is wrong.

The guy basically stalked, hunted, and harassed a kid. Kid ends up dead.

I teach at an urban university and see a lot of young black men who want to maintain THUG LIFE cred through clothing. I point out to them that they aren't doing themselves a favor; they are drawing unwanted and "bad" attention to themselves. However, I have never shot any of them. Geraldo's comment was the worst kind of pandering, and shows why Geraldo is not in news; it was designed to raise his popularity, not to report on facts.

Yogimus: MaestroJ: Is this the sequel to "People shouldn't dress provocatively if they don't wanna be raped?"

Its a good start. A rape is 1 bad decision by the rapist, and 10 bad decisions by the victim.


I hope you are trolling. I really do. Among other things, people rape children and 80-year-old grandmas. Even if what you said is true, and it's not, the "10 bad decisions" don't tend to involve a crime, while the "1 bad decision" is a crime.

When I was an undergrad at summer orientation, the Dean of Students talked to us about rape, and said that some young women (because men never get raped) won't report a rape because they are afraid of getting in trouble because they drank. The Dean's response was "you've already been punished enough." Made me hate her, and she reinforced this more later. Here's the deal: if a woman is "asking for it," she will be perfectly clear by saying "have sex with me." If she doesn't, she isn't "asking for it."

There is a good analogy between the two, though, so I'm glad you pointed that out. Zimmerman committed a crime based upon anger and violence, and that is what rape is; it's not a sex crime, it's a violent crime. Zimmerman had some frustrations, obviously focused on young black men, and he picked a handy person on which to take out those frustrations.

These are the facts for which there is ample evidence:
1. Zimmerman started the confrontation
2. Zimmerman was told by police to back off
3. Zimmerman escalated the confrontation
4. Zimmerman shot Trayvon

Everything else is speculation or statements from Zimmerman.
 
2012-03-26 11:12:47 AM  

ChuDogg: Martin likely heard Zimmerman on the phone with the police. Who knows why he jumped him? But he did. And when you assault someone sometimes bad things happen.


Even *if* he did, he was defending himself from this maniac.

And claiming that he "jumped him" isn't a fact, that''s just making stuff up.

There isn't any evidence of that.

There is evidence that the kid tried to run away and that Zimmerman chased him.
 
2012-03-26 11:12:51 AM  
Im not taking a holiday in Florida
 
2012-03-26 11:16:28 AM  

Secret Polish Boyfriend: These are the facts for which there is ample evidence:
1. Zimmerman started the confrontation
2. Zimmerman was told by police to back off
3. Zimmerman escalated the confrontation
4. Zimmerman shot Trayvon


Engaging in a little confrontation yourself there. As a Neighborhood watch volunteer, Zimmerman was watching for stringers loitering and/ or behaving suspiciously. Martin appears to have fit that description. In light of this, Zimmerman called police, as was proper, then endeavored to keep a watch on Martin until police arrived. Also perfectly legal. The question is: how did the two make initial contact, and what transpired?
 
2012-03-26 11:22:18 AM  

HAMMERTOE: I spent the first few days spewing hatred towards this man, based upon the "artistic license" taken by the popular media in coloring the presentation of this case


No you didn't.
 
2012-03-26 11:39:43 AM  

Dear_Leader: Im not taking a holiday in Florida


This.

Note also in the news this week was the trial of the thugs who killed two Brits who wandered into the wrong section of town.

Send the message that FL is unsafe for tourists and watch the legislature scramble as Disney craps their pants.
 
2012-03-26 12:24:54 PM  

HAMMERTOE: karmaceutical: I can't have an opinion on this till Bill Cosby weighs in on the matter.

Good luck. Bill Cosby's son was killed by hoodie-wearing thugs.


Bill Cosby's son was killed by hoodie-wearing White thugs.
 
2012-03-26 12:27:35 PM  

borg: HAMMERTOE: karmaceutical: I can't have an opinion on this till Bill Cosby weighs in on the matter.

Good luck. Bill Cosby's son was killed by hoodie-wearing thugs.

Bill Cosby's son was killed by hoodie-wearing White thugs.


IIRC wasn't it a Russian immigrant?
 
2012-03-26 12:30:43 PM  

topcon: Do most 17 year olds have bigass tats these days?

[i.imgur.com image 480x640]


The "thug" photo's of Trayvon Martin apparently have come from the website Stormfront and aren't him. Even Breitbart retracted the photos.
 
2012-03-26 12:47:44 PM  

borg: topcon: Do most 17 year olds have bigass tats these days?

[i.imgur.com image 480x640]

The "thug" photo's of Trayvon Martin apparently have come from the website Stormfront and aren't him. Even Breitbart retracted the photos.


One of them did, others are him. Zimmerman should get a medal for ridding the world of another violent, drug dealing gangster.
 
2012-03-26 01:09:51 PM  
 
2012-03-26 02:33:29 PM  

karmaceutical: I can't have an opinion on this till Bill Cosby weighs in on the matter.


He's on record saying something about "the brain damage", after that it's just some boops and bops and some nonsense about pudding.
 
2012-03-26 03:03:30 PM  

jaymanchu: [www.streetwisepundit.com image 633x462]


www.streetwisepundit.com

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-03-26 03:25:46 PM  
SO true.
 
2012-03-26 03:48:53 PM  
I think we should all dress more like Urkel. Suspenders!
 
2012-03-26 04:48:56 PM  

Secret Polish Boyfriend: These are the facts for which there is ample evidence:
1. Zimmerman started the confrontation
2. Zimmerman was told by police to back off
3. Zimmerman escalated the confrontation
4. Zimmerman shot Trayvon


Define confrontation.....following and reporting about somone is not a confrontation....saying hey you wtf are you doing is starting a confrontation....there is no evidence of that.

Zimmerman was told by a 9-11 operator to back off...9-11 operators are not cops...he is under no obligation to follow the verbal ordrs of a 9-11 dispatcher...if not following their orders is a crime can you provide a citation.

Define escaltaion and provide evidence of the escalation....again...following and reporting on someone is not a confrontation.

The only thing you got right is that Zimmerman shot Trayvon.
 
2012-03-26 06:46:24 PM  
Assuming the kid wasn't a thug and was merely a victim, one has to ask:

Why is it that the shooter automatically felt threatened by the appearance of the victim?

Could it be because that's what violent criminals usually look like? (black people in hoodies)

I think that the black community needs to examine themselves and ask why such perceptions exist.

Also, here's a video of 7 black people in hoodies carrying out a home invasion:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/03/philadelphia-robbers-30 k -heist-caught-on-tape/

Notice how the woman's shirt is pulled up to her neck and she's lead into the home by the assailant's pelvis (borderline sexual assault).

Anyway, my point is, if the criminals are mostly black and mostly in hoodies, people are going to fear black people in hoodies (and it's worth noting that I say this as I wear a hoodie).
 
2012-03-26 06:51:09 PM  

UCFRoadWarrior: I guess the Hoodie issue is a little irrelevant now.....since there is a witness who saw Zimmerman getting pounded by Martin....and a BLACK man who is defending Zimmerman.

Hey I guess the White Guilt Media doesn't want to dwell on it...ya know...the facts. sop Imma just gonna put my hoodie on and get shot


Neither party is "white", so the media doesn't really know what to rage on. The usual public race-baiting statements are noticeably absent from the rhetoric.
 
2012-03-26 07:12:22 PM  
can't imagine the pain one would feel wondering where your child is...to then be told he is dead...just getting some skittles and an ice tea...for his soon to be little step brother...or you could believe zimmerman...
 
2012-03-26 07:27:06 PM  

Giltric: Secret Polish Boyfriend: These are the facts for which there is ample evidence:
1. Zimmerman started the confrontation
2. Zimmerman was told by police to back off
3. Zimmerman escalated the confrontation
4. Zimmerman shot Trayvon

Define confrontation.....following and reporting about somone is not a confrontation....saying hey you wtf are you doing is starting a confrontation....there is no evidence of that.

Zimmerman was told by a 9-11 operator to back off...9-11 operators are not cops...he is under no obligation to follow the verbal ordrs of a 9-11 dispatcher...if not following their orders is a crime can you provide a citation.

Define escaltaion and provide evidence of the escalation....again...following and reporting on someone is not a confrontation.

The only thing you got right is that Zimmerman shot Trayvon.


HAMMERTOE:
Engaging in a little confrontation yourself there. As a Neighborhood watch volunteer, Zimmerman was watching for stringers loitering and/ or behaving suspiciously. Martin appears to have fit that description. In light of this, Zimmerman called police, as was proper, then endeavored to keep a watch on Martin until police arrived. Also perfectly legal. The question is: how did the two make initial contact, and what transpired?


Following and reporting on someone definitely is provocational and confrontational. If someone was following me in this manner, you're damn right I would "Stand My Ground" and ask "WTF are you doing?" (I guess I'm allowed to do this b/c I'm not black.) Did I start the confrontation? Not at all IMO; the confrontation started when the guy was following me.

It's sort-of legal to follow someone (you can't stalk someone, which basically means that if I find your actions frightening I can tell you to fark off, and you have to), but I never said that starting a confrontation is illegal. It's not. I can flip off someone while driving, and that's pretty much legal. If I end up killing them, though, it's definitely something that's going to be relevant in the case that I wasn't acting in self-defense.

Also, while 911 operators are not necessarily police officers, they are agents of the police and therefore part of (and under) the agency.

Here's the thing with "illegality", though. If there is a 3a) Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, then it changes things a bit. The only information we have about the event beyond the incontrovertible is either from Zimmerman or from Trayvon's girlfriend, who was on the phone with Trayvon at the time. It's not for me to evaluate the content of those assertions, because I think we can all agree they are involved parties. We don't have Trayvon's statement, because he's dead, ya know.

One piece of information that may come out of the forensics report is the approximate distance between Trayvon and the gun. If the distance was far, Zimmerman's screwed.

I'll add another comment, which is that if I was facing the barrel of a gun, I don't know what I would do. If it was the police, I would hold still and follow instructions and hope for the best. However, if a random person who was following me pulled a gun, I hope I would have the courage to jump the guy. It sounds like a better choice than taking a bullet while standing still.

If there's a trial, the prosecution will probably propose one or more scenarios that explain the events and show that Zimmerman acted precipitously. I am not ready to condemn the man, but I can say as a citizen, rather than as a legal expert, that there appears to be sufficient evidence for the police and DA to pursue the matter. The fact that it took national attention is embarrassing.

I will offer what I suspect happen, for what it's worth. This is speculation:
Trayvon reacted to Zimmerman following him. Zimmerman refused to back off. Pushing began, and I doubt we'll ever know who pushed whom first, but it wouldn't surprise me if Trayvon did, since hey, he was being followed and harassed. The pushing turned into a fight, and that would only happen if Zimmerman participated. Trayvon punched him (resulting in the nose and back of head injury), so Zimmerman shot him. My suspicion is that the forensic evidence will show the last part of this as likely. There have been reports already, but I don't trust them, because they aren't from reputable sources. Again, I'll wait for the trial. I hope there is a trial. Zimmerman will have adequate chance to present his story and why he felt he needed to shoot in self defense.

However, one thing is clear to me: if Zimmerman hadn't followed and accosted Trayvon, none of this would have happened.
 
2012-03-26 07:29:54 PM  

DUkskkEA: can't imagine the pain one would feel wondering where your child is...to then be told he is dead...just getting some skittles and an ice tea...for his soon to be little step brother...or you could believe zimmerman...


Think about what you're saying. What's the more likely scenario:

A neighborhood watchman murders an innocent skittles-toting teen for no good reason at all, in cold blood...

or

A career criminal (probably gang-member) attacks a pillar of the community and gets what he deserves for it?

Occam's Razor, my good sir.
 
2012-03-26 07:51:41 PM  

9beers: borg: topcon: Do most 17 year olds have bigass tats these days?

[i.imgur.com image 480x640]

The "thug" photo's of Trayvon Martin apparently have come from the website Stormfront and aren't him. Even Breitbart retracted the photos.

One of them did, others are him. Zimmerman should get a medal for ridding the world of another violent, drug dealing gangster.


i855.photobucket.com

Don't ever change, baby.
 
2012-03-26 09:01:14 PM  

Secret Polish Boyfriend: Little.Alex: ...No, because that wouldn't help get Obama re-elected. And that's what this is about.

Waitwhathuh? OMGWTFBBQ?

Little.Alex: ...The police reaction is another matter entirely, I'm in agreement with you there, I'm just talking ...
Zimmerman had taken classes at a local college to try and become a cop, but didn't get on to the Police Dept. I think it's more about mental illness and frustration than racism.

I think there is a very important issue of race here. I don't know what motivated Zimmerman, but if he shot Trayvon because Trayvon was black, that has bearing on the case, both the civil rights/hate crime and the shooting itself.

I have a colleague who insists that guns make for a more polite society. If that were true, I would vote for arming everyone, but I've never seen evidence of that. We have more weapons now and a less polite society; it's not necessarily causation, but the correlation shows that the "more polite society" argument is wrong.

The guy basically stalked, hunted, and harassed a kid. Kid ends up dead.

I teach at an urban university and see a lot of young black men who want to maintain THUG LIFE cred through clothing. I point out to them that they aren't doing themselves a favor; they are drawing unwanted and "bad" attention to themselves. However, I have never shot any of them. Geraldo's comment was the worst kind of pandering, and shows why Geraldo is not in news; it was designed to raise his popularity, not to report on facts.

Yogimus: MaestroJ: Is this the sequel to "People shouldn't dress provocatively if they don't wanna be raped?"

Its a good start. A rape is 1 bad decision by the rapist, and 10 bad decisions by the victim.

I hope you are trolling. I really do. Among other things, people rape children and 80-year-old grandmas. Even if what you said is true, and it's not, the "10 bad decisions" don't tend to involve a crime, while the "1 bad decision" is a crime.

When I was an undergrad at summer orientation, the Dean o ...


I am going to start a white hispanic coalition to offer bounties every time one of us is wronged.
 
2012-03-26 09:15:12 PM  

Secret Polish Boyfriend: The only information we have about the event beyond the incontrovertible is either from Zimmerman or from Trayvon's girlfriend, who was on the phone with Trayvon at the time. It's not for me to evaluate the content of those assertions, because I think we can all agree they are involved parties. We don't have Trayvon's statement, because he's dead, ya know.


Actually, there was another witness.

A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed...

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help...and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
 
2012-03-27 02:57:22 AM  

moron4life: This thread is fascinating. Incredibly stupid, but still fascinating.

Also, I'm impressed that people still intentionally misrepresent the known circumstances to rationalize the situation.

~
You tosser. Got a bullet point list of the KNOWN facts, sizzlechest? Bet you haven't bet you can't provide. Mebbes you got a link to the KNOWN facts?

You obviously KNOW the FACTS. I wanna stop reading right now until you can get me up to speed...........
 
2012-03-27 03:00:37 AM  
pssst: this is the part where you ignore my request and get into a soggy-SAO semantic debate about "known facts" vs. "known circumstances."
 
2012-03-27 04:59:28 AM  

Big Ramifications: Got a bullet point list of the KNOWN facts, sizzlechest?


Here you go. And before you whine about the source; every bullet point has a news article backing it up.

You'll learn all sorts of interesting things the media has been ignoring, such as how Zimmerman has changed his story more than once, or how the initial police reports were later amended to better support Zimmerman's story (initially they neglected to mention either a wound on Zimmerman or signs of a struggle).
 
2012-03-27 11:47:43 AM  

Sabyen91: cirby: There is a problem with hoodie-wearing blacks being murdered.

Unfortunately, the problem is that they're usually murdered by other hoodie-wearing blacks...

/More than nine out of ten murderers of black teens are other black teens
//Can't we start working on that first instead of worrying about the extremely rare cases like Trayvon?

Troll.


Whereas I totally agree with you, the major issue here is Zimmerman has yet to be arrested. The vast majority of those blacks who kill blacks are arrested within the next few hours after their crimes (someone is going to ask for proof, check your local records or just trust me). That's the issue. At least it's mine.

/black guy
//don't understand why we kill each other
/also don't understand why there are those who don't see this as injustice
 
2012-03-27 12:58:49 PM  

m3d_stud3nt:
/also don't understand why there are those who don't see this as injustice


Here's part of the answer:

How are judges elected in Flrida (new window)

WHen the state government discourages an independent judiciary there's incentive not to act against popular opinion or political survival.
 
2012-03-27 01:18:58 PM  
fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net
 
2012-03-27 01:31:53 PM  

Gunther: Big Ramifications: Got a bullet point list of the KNOWN facts, sizzlechest?

Here you go. And before you whine about the source; every bullet point has a news article backing it up.

You'll learn all sorts of interesting things the media has been ignoring, such as how Zimmerman has changed his story more than once, or how the initial police reports were later amended to better support Zimmerman's story (initially they neglected to mention either a wound on Zimmerman or signs of a struggle).


most of those bulleted talking points seem relevant now I know where people were getting their villification of Zimmerman.
Trayvon was an A and B student? Who cares? does that automatically eliminate a person from being a criminal or suspicious? Didn't Ted Bundy have an IQ of like 130....maybe Trayvon was a future serial killer.
Zimmerman was carrying a gun but Trayvon had skittles
Zimmerman was heavier....but they fail to mention that Trayvon was more athletic....

Sounds like Thinkprogress has an agenda or they write and present facts in such a way that their readers lap it up like a bunch of idiots who watch Fox news.
 
2012-03-27 01:37:10 PM  

Giltric:

Sounds like Thinkprogress has an agenda or they write and present facts in such a way that their readers lap it up like a bunch of idiots who watch Fox news.


Yeah an unarmed minor was stalked and confronted by an armed adult who killed him after the youth tried to fend off a stalker.
 
2012-03-27 01:44:26 PM  

lohphat: Giltric:

Sounds like Thinkprogress has an agenda or they write and present facts in such a way that their readers lap it up like a bunch of idiots who watch Fox news.

Yeah an unarmed minor was stalked and confronted by an armed adult who killed him after the youth tried to fend off a stalker.



I don't like your tone....can I assault you and claim self defense for confronting me?

Try to be consitent....
 
2012-03-27 01:55:16 PM  

Giltric: I don't like your tone....can I assault you and claim self defense for confronting me?

Try to be consitent....


Insulting intelligence should be a capital offense.
 
2012-03-27 02:02:36 PM  

lohphat: Giltric: I don't like your tone....can I assault you and claim self defense for confronting me?

Try to be consitent....

Insulting intelligence should be a capital offense.


I see no intelligence...I see a helluvalot of emotion and specualtion counter to the evidence that does exist.
 
2012-03-27 02:03:55 PM  

Giltric: lohphat: Giltric: I don't like your tone....can I assault you and claim self defense for confronting me?

Try to be consitent....

Insulting intelligence should be a capital offense.

I see no intelligence...I see a helluvalot of emotion and specualtion counter to the evidence that does exist.


Which of the above events as I stated did not take place other than the arrest of the gunman? I made no emotional statements just a list of events.
 
2012-03-27 02:55:17 PM  

lohphat: Giltric: lohphat: Giltric: I don't like your tone....can I assault you and claim self defense for confronting me?

Try to be consitent....

Insulting intelligence should be a capital offense.

I see no intelligence...I see a helluvalot of emotion and specualtion counter to the evidence that does exist.

Which of the above events as I stated did not take place other than the arrest of the gunman? I made no emotional statements just a list of events.


Its the context. Its second guessing. Yes trayvon was unarmed...but we also have an eyewitness claiming that Trayvon was the one beating on Zimmerman.

Its like pinning the performance of a stock market to the president based on the numbers when he takes office and when he leaves office. And leaving out banking scandals, market bubbles etc that made the numbers change during their term.
 
2012-03-27 03:25:08 PM  

Giltric: Its the context. Its second guessing. Yes trayvon was unarmed...but we also have an eyewitness claiming that Trayvon was the one beating on Zimmerman.


What would you do if you were being stalked and then confronted by a belligerent wanna-be cop?
 
2012-03-27 04:02:05 PM  

Giltric: Its the context. Its second guessing. Yes trayvon was unarmed...but we also have an eyewitness claiming that Trayvon was the one beating on Zimmerman.


And we have Zimmerman's recorded 911 call saying that the kid was running away and Zimmerman was following.

Whatever fight happened was a direct result of Zimmermans deciding to chase this kid down.

There wasn't a confrontation before the phone call. And whatever happened after that 911 call is a direct result of Zimmerman deciding "I'm going to chase this punk down and show him who is boss".

I don't care if the kid beat on him - he deserved to get beat on. If I'm walking down the street, doing nothing illegal, talking on the phone, and some maniac starts following me around, I'll probably try to run away, too. And if the maniac chases after me, at some point I'm going to decide that I have to defend myself.

He can't just go tackle some kid who is running away from him.

This story is about an armed man who was under no threat at all. He decided that this kid was a criminal based on no actual evidence, and he decided that he was going to chase the kid down. And then after he catches him, you have a fight, a shooting, and a dead body.

The kid tried to run, as evidenced by the 911 call. The shooter instigated. Instead of minding his own business, he started shiat with this kid, and then when the kid fought back, he shot him dead.

The fact that the kid was winning the fight is irrelevant. Zimmerman had no reason to jump the kid in the first place, and the kid had a right to defend himself from a gun wielding lunatic who was chasing him at night.
 
2012-03-27 07:35:26 PM  

lohphat: Giltric: Its the context. Its second guessing. Yes trayvon was unarmed...but we also have an eyewitness claiming that Trayvon was the one beating on Zimmerman.

What would you do if you were being stalked and then confronted by a belligerent wanna-be cop?


Speed, stealth, and extreme violence of action.


Wait...am I in the US or abroad?
 
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