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(Fox News)   Paul Ryan's tax plan is so simple that there's no way to tell how much it will benefit rich people   (foxnews.com) divider line 203
    More: Unlikely, Rep. Paul Ryan, GOP, federal benefits, United States House Committee on Ways and Means, mortgage interest deductions, David Plouffe, House Budget Committee, loopholes  
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4411 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Mar 2012 at 3:09 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-25 02:09:20 PM
You have to hand it to Paul Ryan, no really, if you don't hand it to him his pyramid scheme will fail and the initial investors will be forced to instruct their butlers to give you a stern look.
 
2012-03-25 02:19:13 PM
On the other hand, it's easy to tell how much it will fark the middle-class and poor people.
 
2012-03-25 03:12:14 PM
We'll strip the "loopholes" and then lower the rates so that even the rich people who don't take advantage of the loopholes all pay the same amount as the people who are taking advantage of them. I don't see how anything could stand in our way.

/Sanity. Reality. The Laws of Physics?
 
2012-03-25 03:16:23 PM
Answer: a lot?
 
2012-03-25 03:16:59 PM

actualhuman: We'll strip the "loopholes" and then lower the rates so that even the rich people who don't take advantage of the loopholes all pay the same amount as the people who are taking advantage of them. I don't see how anything could stand in our way.

/Sanity. Reality. The Laws of Physics?


Meaningless against this fully armed and operational Republican party.
 
2012-03-25 03:22:47 PM
So how exactly do closing 1%-only tax loopholes benefit the 1%?

popcorn.jpg
 
2012-03-25 03:25:06 PM
i177.photobucket.com
 
2012-03-25 03:26:59 PM
The median household income in 1970 was $9,870 (new window).
Doing nothing but keeping pace with inflation, that would be $54,792 in 2010 dollars. (new window)
The median household income in 2010 was $50, 046 (new window)
Since 1970, the median household income hasn't even kept pace with inflation.

Here's a loophole I think should be added to the tax code. The 1st $50k are tax free for everybody. Bill Gates and the meter maid downtown get the same %50k exemption. Add a surtax to the top 1% to make up the difference.
/yes, its oversimplified, but you get the idea
 
2012-03-25 03:29:49 PM

Notabunny: The median household income in 1970 was $9,870 (new window).
Doing nothing but keeping pace with inflation, that would be $54,792 in 2010 dollars. (new window)
The median household income in 2010 was $50, 046 (new window)
Since 1970, the median household income hasn't even kept pace with inflation


Don't forget that the fraction of households that are double income has increased since the 1970s as well.
 
2012-03-25 03:29:51 PM

Relatively Obscure: [i177.photobucket.com image 301x224]


Looks like he lost.
 
2012-03-25 03:30:10 PM

Notabunny: /yes, its oversimplified, but you get the idea


Not really. I would, however, take your general idea and actually pin it to the reported median income, adjusted for inflation, rather than to just the first $50K.
 
2012-03-25 03:30:55 PM

o5iiawah: So how exactly do closing 1%-only tax loopholes benefit the 1%?

popcorn.jpg



A fair enough point. I'd really like to see the specifics of the bill/bills he's proposing, and compare it with current figures. My dad had tickets to go see him presenting his plan on Thursday, but I couldn't go.
 
2012-03-25 03:31:12 PM

Notabunny: yes, its oversimplified, but you get the idea


Why do you hate the poor JobCreatorsTM?
 
2012-03-25 03:31:35 PM
i276.photobucket.com

Never underestimate the GOP's ability to dress up the same old bullshiat in new duds and attempt to peddle it as a new and exciting idea.
 
2012-03-25 03:33:39 PM

culebra: [i276.photobucket.com image 600x420]

Never underestimate the GOP's ability to dress up the same old bullshiat in new duds and attempt to peddle it as a new and exciting idea.


The implied similarities between Paul Ryan and Fozzie the Bear make me sad.

Fozzie deserves better.
 
2012-03-25 03:37:26 PM
I farking love when they think a two-bracket system is all it takes to simplify the tax code. The brackets aren't what makes it complicated. Well, maybe for farkers who pretend they make six figures and refuse raises because it would push them into higher brackets, but not for anyone else.

Of course, republicans have been speaking in generalities on this stuff for so long I don't think any of them have really thought about it for decades. Look at how much praise the Cain tax plan got. He had this brilliant plan when he introduced it, and then every time it was criticized it got more and more complicated without him ever admitting he changed it. He wasn't changing it, he was just revealing more details. Between the deductions and exemptions that make sense and those bought by lobbyists, combined with the republican interest in making sure the wealthy keep more of it, I find it very hard to believe any significant change will be made by a Ryan plan.
 
2012-03-25 03:38:13 PM
www.balloon-juice.com

Looks like we get to dust this off again...
 
2012-03-25 03:40:07 PM
The new Ryan budget is a remarkable document - one that, for most of the past half-century, would have been outside the bounds of mainstream discussion due to its extreme nature. In essence, this budget is Robin Hood in reverse - on steroids. It would likely produce the largest redistribution of income from the bottom to the top in modern U.S. history and likely increase poverty and inequality more than any other budget in recent times (and possibly in the nation's history). Link (new window)

Ryan Budget's Claim to Finance Its Tax Cuts for the Wealthy By Curbing Their Tax Breaks Does Not Withstand Scrutiny (new window)

www.cbpp.org (new window)

Fellate the rich and destroy the poor. It's the GOP way.
 
2012-03-25 03:43:50 PM

o5iiawah: So how exactly do closing 1%-only tax loopholes benefit the 1%?

popcorn.jpg


If that was all there was to the plan, it wouldn't. The plan is to lower rates on the 1% that the 1% will pay less even without the loopholes.

And then, of course, the poor will have to pay increased taxes so that they have "skin in the game."
 
2012-03-25 03:45:56 PM
I would love a tax system that is isn't susceptible to political BS like this.
 
2012-03-25 03:47:12 PM

Atillathepun: And then, of course, the poor will have to pay increased taxes so that they have "skin in the game."


In addition to have fewer services. (He backed off on his Medicare plan so he can focus on cutting Medicaid)

Paying more for less?

My God, Paul Ryan wants to turn America into Comcast!
 
2012-03-25 03:47:19 PM

FormlessOne: Notabunny: /yes, its oversimplified, but you get the idea

Not really. I would, however, take your general idea and actually pin it to the reported median income, adjusted for inflation, rather than to just the first $50K.


I like that idea. Also, it's not as if people making $50K or less would somehow be "getting away tax-free". State parks, fish and game, vehicle registration, after school programs, parking tickets, building permits, toll bridges, university tuition, etc, are everyday examples where services have been cut and fees have been increased to help pay for tax breaks for the top income brackets. A decades-long Robinhood in reverse, sort of arrangement.
 
2012-03-25 03:49:03 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: The new Ryan budget is a remarkable document - one that, for most of the past half-century, would have been outside the bounds of mainstream discussion due to its extreme nature. In essence, this budget is Robin Hood in reverse - on steroids. It would likely produce the largest redistribution of income from the bottom to the top in modern U.S. history and likely increase poverty and inequality more than any other budget in recent times (and possibly in the nation's history). Link (new window)

Ryan Budget's Claim to Finance Its Tax Cuts for the Wealthy By Curbing Their Tax Breaks Does Not Withstand Scrutiny (new window)

[www.cbpp.org image 287x200] (new window)

Fellate the rich and destroy the poor. It's the GOP way.


Since 1980, this social experiment has been proven to work. Even if it doesn't work, it has worked very very well. Vote GOP because it works.
 
2012-03-25 03:58:32 PM

missiv: Dusk-You-n-Me: The new Ryan budget is a remarkable document - one that, for most of the past half-century, would have been outside the bounds of mainstream discussion due to its extreme nature. In essence, this budget is Robin Hood in reverse - on steroids. It would likely produce the largest redistribution of income from the bottom to the top in modern U.S. history and likely increase poverty and inequality more than any other budget in recent times (and possibly in the nation's history). Link (new window)

Ryan Budget's Claim to Finance Its Tax Cuts for the Wealthy By Curbing Their Tax Breaks Does Not Withstand Scrutiny (new window)

[www.cbpp.org image 287x200] (new window)

Fellate the rich and destroy the poor. It's the GOP way.

Since 1980, this social experiment has been proven to work. Even if it doesn't work, it has worked very very well. Vote GOP because it works.


That crap you're spouting won't convince me. *I* vote for the GOP because both sides are bad.
 
2012-03-25 03:58:45 PM

o5iiawah: So how exactly do closing 1%-only tax loopholes benefit the 1%?

popcorn.jpg


If you RTFA, you'll se Ryan characterize the mortgage interest deduction as one of those loopholes.
 
2012-03-25 04:02:20 PM
Ryan Paul thread?
 
2012-03-25 04:02:55 PM
fta: His proposal calls for turning the current six-bracket system into a two-bracket system for individuals -- one rate at 10 percent, the other at 25 percent.

System needs more tax brackets not less. Strike one.

The influential lawmaker would not get too deep into specifics about which deductions might be eliminated and which might be spared.

Swing and a miss. Strike two.

Ryan said it's "impossible" to know whether the wealthy would end up benefiting more or less from all these changes.

Next batter, please.
 
2012-03-25 04:06:57 PM

quatchi: fta: His proposal calls for turning the current six-bracket system into a two-bracket system for individuals -- one rate at 10 percent, the other at 25 percent.

System needs more tax brackets not less. Strike one.

The influential lawmaker would not get too deep into specifics about which deductions might be eliminated and which might be spared.

Swing and a miss. Strike two.

Ryan said it's "impossible" to know whether the wealthy would end up benefiting more or less from all these changes.

Next batter, please.


Really. Don't piss on us and tell us it's raining.
 
2012-03-25 04:07:11 PM

ManRay: I would love a tax system that is isn't susceptible to political BS like this.


It could look something like this:

Total Income = xxx
Multiply xxx by this rate = total tax owed
Enter tax withheld/paid here
subtract total tax withheld/paid from tax owed = your bill/refund
 
2012-03-25 04:07:38 PM
Paul Ryan is the greatest threat the United States has ever faced.
 
2012-03-25 04:08:21 PM
WTF is with that guys ears?
 
2012-03-25 04:08:43 PM
www.esquire.com

"EVIL VENTRILOQUIST DUMMY"?
 
2012-03-25 04:11:51 PM

culebra: [i276.photobucket.com image 600x420]

Never underestimate the GOP's ability to dress up the same old bullshiat in new duds and attempt to peddle it as a new and exciting idea.


Oh how the pundits keep trying to call such an atrocity as "bold" and "daring".

Yeah. Just like the way the Manson Family's raid on the Sharon Tate house was "bold" and "daring".
 
2012-03-25 04:15:45 PM

elchip: Paul Ryan is the greatest threat the United States has ever faced.


You know Mothra is only sleeping, right?
 
2012-03-25 04:21:37 PM

quatchi: fta: His proposal calls for turning the current six-bracket system into a two-bracket system for individuals -- one rate at 10 percent, the other at 25 percent.


What, is this a way of sneaking flat tax dumbassery into the tax code?
 
2012-03-25 04:25:30 PM

theorellior: quatchi: fta: His proposal calls for turning the current six-bracket system into a two-bracket system for individuals -- one rate at 10 percent, the other at 25 percent.

What, is this a way of sneaking flat tax dumbassery into the tax code?


And I'm absolutely sure it'll bring in just as much revenue as the old tax system.

If not, we can just cut Medicaid and let people die in the streets.
 
2012-03-25 04:26:34 PM

Notabunny: elchip: Paul Ryan is the greatest threat the United States has ever faced.

You know Mothra is only sleeping, right?


mothra is cthulhu?

/That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die
 
2012-03-25 04:30:35 PM
Well let's see if President Bipartisan 0bama is willing to sit down and work with Ryan and the GOP on this plan.
 
2012-03-25 04:31:43 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Well let's see if President Bipartisan 0bama is willing to sit down and work with Ryan and the GOP on this plan.


He can try. But the first step is to bring Ryan and his budget plan back to reality.
 
2012-03-25 04:32:21 PM
Just the kind of face that'd look perfect on the front of a Fleshlight. Of course the batteries are on a reverse sliding scale, so you couldn't afford it.

www.esquire.com
 
2012-03-25 04:33:18 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Well let's see if President Bipartisan 0bama is willing to sit down and work with Ryan and the GOP on this plan.


You mean the plan that even Paul Ryan doesn't understand? The only "working with" that is to be done is to tell him to get serious and start over.
 
2012-03-25 04:34:18 PM
I wonder if Paul Ryan believes in a Hell?
 
2012-03-25 04:34:41 PM
The Republican's have adapted the 'Highlander" method when it comes to economic plans

/there can be only one
//and getting there requires cutting off heads
 
2012-03-25 04:36:00 PM
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H.L. Mencken

/had to look it up
//always thought it was from Lincoln
 
2012-03-25 04:42:52 PM
I'd love to get a masters and PhD in economics...
Or maybe a masters in statistics and a PhD in economics.

I'd love to know more about how much the marginal utility of income affects a person's impact on the economy. A person making $30k a year will spend most of that directly into the economy, but the person making a million+ per year probably won't. But that million dollar income will probably go into investments, which traditionally create new jobs and economic activity for the lower income. But now it's hard to see a connection between many investment vehicles and economic growth vs leeching off the economic activity of others.

Sigh... I don't know if there is a good tax plan. But maybe a stern look at regulations of investment would turn up things we need to prohibit in order to create more real economic activity. Stock HFT algorithms do not produce jobs, but draw money out of the system without contributing.

We need to grow more than we need to reform taxes. I doubt that reducing taxes for the accumulators of wealth will increase economic activity.

/How many billions are going to be spent on tax prep this year?
 
2012-03-25 04:43:05 PM
There is absolutely no way the republicans would ever do anything that would cost the rich more money.

no. way.
 
2012-03-25 04:43:08 PM
Why even consider the income tax rate on the rich? They rarely, if ever pay anything on that tax since their income is mostly derived from investments so fall under the capital gains tax. You could set the income tax to 0% or 100% and the effect would be pretty much the same. That's why CEOs prefer a $1/year salary and juicy stock options.
 
2012-03-25 04:45:35 PM

OgreMagi: Why even consider the income tax rate on the rich? They rarely, if ever pay anything on that tax since their income is mostly derived from investments so fall under the capital gains tax. You could set the income tax to 0% or 100% and the effect would be pretty much the same. That's why CEOs prefer a $1/year salary and juicy stock options.


Exactly, why even consider a tax plan which favors them when they already have a system that favors them?
 
2012-03-25 04:47:19 PM
What kind of idiot advances a tax plan without knowing how it impacts each and every income group? Here are the new tax laws; won't it be a surprise to see how they work out? What is this, amateur night? Either he is lying or dangerously stupid.
 
2012-03-25 04:49:54 PM
 
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