Kaybeck: Since this has been a argument going on for decades, where's the peer-reviewed studies on whether or not adding floride to water is bad or not? I want to see what the consensus is on this.

Show me the science!

Search PubMed for Fluoridation. There are thousands of studies which support the use of Fluoride in public water as safe and effective.

killiemary: I think flouridating public water is bull. If it's so great & wonderful how come even animals get tooth decay, they drink the water too and they don't eat sweets.
Isn't flouride a waste product from manufacturing? Why put hazmat in the water?

Animals don't brush their teeth, and we feed them things they wouldn't eat in the wild. Any food left on teeth will cause decay.

We ingest lots of things that would be toxic in large quantities, especially medicines. Eat too many carrots, and your damn skin will turn orange. Ban carrots for kids, ONOES!

Every time this argument comes up I think back to this clip.
Link (new window)

REFERENCE FROM A.D.A.M.
Poisonous Ingredient
Sodium fluoride
Triclosan

Where Found
Various toothpastes

Symptoms
Swallowing a large amount of regular toothpaste may cause stomach pain and possible intestinal blockage.
These additional symptoms may occur when swallowing a large amount of toothpaste containing fluoride:
Convulsions
Diarrhea
Difficulty breathing
Drooling
Heart attack
Salty or soapy taste in the mouth
Slow heart rate
Shock
Tremors
Vomiting
Weakness

BronyMedic: Kaybeck: Since this has been a argument going on for decades, where's the peer-reviewed studies on whether or not adding floride to water is bad or not? I want to see what the consensus is on this.

Show me the science!

Search PubMed for Fluoridation. There are thousands of studies which support the use of Fluoride in public water as safe and effective.

This is why I gifted TF to you, you make me cry less in these threads.

/the anti-fluoride crowd are the cutest form of paranoid nutcases

Never use toothpaste as a substitute for soap when washing your face. Well, unless you want a cheap chemical peel.
Also, Abby Someone is getting pretty derpy these days.

AbbeySomeone: I am pleased that submitter didn't show any bias in his headline.

The scientific community vs creationists; the political community vs truthers and birthers; the medical community vs anti-vaxxers. Sometimes, bias is the correct answer.

/If you want Fair and Balanced™, go work for Fox News.
//The rest of us prefer factual information over nonsense conspiracy theories.

So, from a blithering chemists' perspective:

Adding sodium fluoride to an acid, such as stomach acid, immediately creates hydrogen fluoride (NaF + HCl -> HF + NaCl). This is an extremely dangerous chemical, and it's on a fairly short list of things most chemists just stay away from if possible, or at least be very very carefuly with if they can't avoid it. It causes nerve damage, can precipitate calcium in the blood, and even dissolves glass. Or, from wiki: "Hydrogen fluoride gas is a severe poison that may immediately and permanently damage lungs and the corneas of the eyes. Water solutions (hydrofluoric acid) are a contact-poison with the potential for deep, initially painless burns and ensuing tissue death. By interfering with body calcium metabolism, the concentrated acid may also cause systemic toxicity and eventual cardiac arrest and fatality, after contact with as little as 160 cm2 (25 square inches) of skin."

So yea, I'd be up for not dosing myself with even small amounts of that every single day for the rest of my life.

alexandermals: This stuff is poison to the soft organs

Could you post a link to a scientific article indicating that the quantities of fluoride added to public water supplies have been shown to damage people's organs?

theoneontheleft: So, from a blithering chemists' perspective

A chemist who isn't an expert on the medical effects of his chemicals but who opines on the same anyway is indeed blithering.

ghah, careful*

proteus_b: are the wingnuts really sure they want "it's that way in w. europe" to be accepted as some sort of precedent?

It might work . Thats why Americans love bottled water so much , cause 25 years ago it was a Europeam thing .So in order to not look foolish everybody started drinking bottled water .

BronyMedic: KimNorth: "First of all, it needs to be stated that the 'substance' referred to as 'Fluoride' is a misnomer - there is no such substance listed in the periodic chart of the elements, nor in the prestigious CRC handbook, nor in the sacred 'bible' of the pharmaceutical industry - the illustrious 'Merck Index'. Instead, we find a GAS called Fluorine - and from the use of this gas in various industries such as aluminum manufacturing and the nuclear industry -certain toxic byproducts are created which have 'captured' fluorine molecules. One such toxic, poisonous 'byproduct' is called sodium Fluoride - which according to the Merck Index is primarily used as rat and cockroach poison and is also the active ingredient in most toothpastes and as an "additive to drinking water".

http://www.usp.org/search/site/Fluoride

85 References to Fluoride containing compounds and medications.

Entry in the Merck Index

http://www.merckbooks.com/mindex/index.html (You can order it yourself.)

Entry in the Merck Manual

http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/nutritional_disorders/minera l _deficiency_and_toxicity/fluorine.html#v886308

TL;DR - /facepalm

/The stupid is coming out in droves.

Facepalm yourself you silly goose, what it is saying is in it's natural form as it is most often introduced to the customer/public in a by-product poison.

//Reading comprehension try it.

KimNorth: REFERENCE FROM A.D.A.M.

You have an excellent point there. We should ban things that can kill you if enough is ingested. Lets start here.

Oldiron_79

Mandrake, you can start by making me a drink of grain alcohol and rain water.


You should market that as a product. You can call it gRainwater^tm.

bravian: [files.myopera.com image 320x240]

/the anti-fluoride crowd are the cutest form of paranoid nutcases

Go to school jackass.
How Fluoride Can Cause Hypothyroidism (new window)

Dr. Jerry Tennant describes how fluoride "bullies out" the iodine (an essential component) in the thyroid hormone, which regulates the body's voltage. If your body does not have proper voltage, it will not "heal" like it should because "healing" is simply cells reproducing to create new cells, which then replace the older damaged cells, and -50 mV's of voltage is required for cells to do this. This means that sufferers of lowered body voltage induced by fluoride consumption are more vulnerable to all types of diseases and injuries.

alexandermals

Oh, so we have to accept deadly poison in our water supply and have it contribute to a chronic organ disease that is always fatal and has no cure, in order to make you happy? What I posted is fact and medical advice from my kidney/liver specialist and unless you have and M.D. behind your name I'll keep listening to my specialists.


You sound genetically inferior.

The Iconoclast: KimNorth: "Why, oh why then is it allowed to be added to the toothpastes and drinking water of the American people?

Historically, this substance was quite expensive for the worlds' premier chemical companies to dispose of - but in the 50's and 60's - Alcoa and the entire aluminum industry - with a vast overabundance of the toxic waste - SOMEHOW sold the FDA and our government on the insane (but highly profitable) idea of buying this poison at a 20,000% markup and then injecting it into our water supply as well as into the nation's toothpastes and dental rinse. Yes that's right folks, a 20,000% markup. Consider also that when sodium Fluoride is injected into our drinking water, its level is approximately 1 part-per-million (ppm), but since we only drink ½ of one percent of the total water supply, the hazardous chemical literally 'goes down the drain' and voila - the chemical industry has not only a free hazardous waste disposal system - but we have also PAID them handsomely in the process!!"

So vote republican?

Oh I get it no no I don't.

White Man's Sharia

alexandermals: Englebert Slaptyback: alexandermals

Oh, so we have to accept deadly poison in our water supply and have it contribute to a chronic organ disease that is always fatal and has no cure, in order to make you happy? What I posted is fact and medical advice from my kidney/liver specialist and unless you have and M.D. behind your name I'll keep listening to my specialists.


You sound genetically inferior.
You sound like an asshole.

He is an asshole and he loves fluoride. Very telling ( :

CygnusDarius: I think in a few years, people will be burning scientists to the stake, and edumacation will be reduced to nothing but reruns of the Kardashian show and homepathy.

Homeopathy? What are you, an elitist?

Having knowledge is great, but if you only have a small amount of knowledge and extrapolate it to other things you are dangerous. Case in point: Rainbows in Sprinkler water conspiracy (new window)

alexandermals: Englebert Slaptyback: alexandermals

Oh, so we have to accept deadly poison in our water supply and have it contribute to a chronic organ disease that is always fatal and has no cure, in order to make you happy? What I posted is fact and medical advice from my kidney/liver specialist and unless you have and M.D. behind your name I'll keep listening to my specialists.


You sound genetically inferior.
You sound like an asshole.

Because you are a medical minority, you want the entire world to cater to your inferiorities? Sounds like you're the asshole. Studies have already been posted saying its fine and can be beneficial for NORMAL people. Since your chronic and fatal, who cares? Nothing's going to fix it anyways.

flouride is toxic

theoneontheleft: So, from a blithering chemists' perspective:

Adding sodium fluoride to an acid, such as stomach acid, immediately creates hydrogen fluoride (NaF + HCl -> HF + NaCl). This is an extremely dangerous chemical, and it's on a fairly short list of things most chemists just stay away from if possible, or at least be very very carefuly with if they can't avoid it. It causes nerve damage, can precipitate calcium in the blood, and even dissolves glass. Or, from wiki: "Hydrogen fluoride gas is a severe poison that may immediately and permanently damage lungs and the corneas of the eyes. Water solutions (hydrofluoric acid) are a contact-poison with the potential for deep, initially painless burns and ensuing tissue death. By interfering with body calcium metabolism, the concentrated acid may also cause systemic toxicity and eventual cardiac arrest and fatality, after contact with as little as 160 cm2 (25 square inches) of skin."

So yea, I'd be up for not dosing myself with even small amounts of that every single day for the rest of my life.

So you're saying that if I down a liter of tap water, I can then belch poisonous corrosive fumes into the faces of my enemies?

Mister Peejay: badhatharry: "If you accidentally swallow more than used for brushing, seek professional help or contact a poison control center immediately" is now required on all fluoride toothpastes by the FDA. The amount used for brushing is pea sized.

I think you are underestimating the amount of fluoride in toothpaste. Looking at my tube of Crest, it says .243% sodium fluoride. Rounding a little, that's one part in four hundred, which is quite a ways from 1ppm.

Sorry, I didn't get out a scientific scale to measure how much a "pea sized" blob of toothpaste weighs, so that I could compare it to the weight of water.

I also don't know what else is in the toothpaste. It's not that fluoride that makes it nauseating to swallow.

Assuming you drink 8 cups of water (1.818kg) per day, you are ingesting 1.8mg of flouride per day.

Lets assume that a pea-sized amount of toothpaste is 1/4 of a cubic centimeter - this weighs approx 0.25g (I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt for the sake of argument). At .234%, that is 0.000585g, or approximately 0.5mg.

Angel of Death: theoneontheleft: So, from a blithering chemists' perspective

A chemist who isn't an expert on the medical effects of his chemicals but who opines on the same anyway is indeed blithering.

Angel of Death: theoneontheleft: So, from a blithering chemists' perspective

A chemist who isn't an expert on the medical effects of his chemicals but who opines on the same anyway is indeed blithering.

My guess is you're trolling, but: how expert do you have to be to know that you shouldn't ingest things that dissolve glass? Aside from that, as someone who's worked as a lab safety coordinator overseeing HF users and has had to sit through multiple training sessions on HF use, I think I'm pretty well qualified to opine on its medical effects.

alexandermals: Angel of Death: theoneontheleft: So, from a blithering chemists' perspective

A chemist who isn't an expert on the medical effects of his chemicals but who opines on the same anyway is indeed blithering.

Sounds like he knows the effects to me, but dumbed it down with a wiki copy.....got your chemistry degree yet?

Substance you morons are discussing: Flouride ions
Compound actually used for water flouridation: Hexafluorosilicic acid

/Get a brain morans.

KimNorth:
These additional symptoms may occur when swallowing a large amount of toothpaste containing fluoride:


That was a great list of reasons as to why you shouldn't eat large amounts toothpaste. If you are eating large amounts of toothpaste, then the amount of fluoride in your water shouldn't be the first thing on your list to worry about as you may have pica (new window).

alexandermals: How about we teach our kids to take care of their teeth?? Grew up on well water that definitely had no fluoride and my teeth give me less trouble than most at 44. My kids teeth are perfect, as well, and none of those ugly spots on them that I see on many kids. They've grown up on the same well.

whereas I grew up on well water and have had a bit of trouble with my teeth (why yes, I do brush and floss).