Dr. Mojo PhD: GoSurfing: Dr. Mojo PhD: Ironic how in such a world, if we corrected the sky to be red, you would be standing on the street corner screaming that it's still blue because it was blue yesterday. Deliciously ironic that in your effort to prove others delusional, you've only shown that your own analogy demonstrates the madness lies in your brain.

That's the weakest argument I've ever heard on fark.

No it's not. You're just pissy that your invalid analogy didn't account for the possibility of altering the sky as we can reassign gender. When your analogy was corrected to be valid, it set you ahoist by your own petard, which naturally upset you. In the future don't make a weak analogy and you can avoid further negative stimulus.

Actually it is the weakest argument I've ever heard on fark, dolt...because you ASSUME that without consideration of evidence that the sky was altered to become red, that I'd be shouting on the street still saying it was blue.

You work on assumptions. I work on reality.

Again, address the next analogy I posted in which transgendered people are akin to someone insisting that 2+2=5, when most all of the civilized, intelligent world would agree it was 4. Please address that, or get the biology books rewritten for delusional people with self-image problems.

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Wah wah wah wah wah wah wah. Wah wah wah wah. Wah wah wah waaaaaaaah wah wah wah wah. Wah wah wah wah waaaaaaaah wah wah wah waaaah.

That is pretty much what you sound like to me.

If you're not a trans person then count your blessings an move on with your life. Don't be a dick to people who were born different than you.

Yes, I suppose there is a very rare chance that some beautiful trans female will come into your life and you will fall madly in love with her only to be crushed when she eventually reveals that she was born with a dude's body.

There's also a chance that aliens will eat your brain tonight too.

Seriously, if you're not trans I don't see why the hell you would waste two seconds of time actively trying to make life more miserable for trans people. It's a nice day, go play outside.

Dr. Mojo PhD: GoSurfing: Dr. Mojo PhD: Ironic how in such a world, if we corrected the sky to be red, you would be standing on the street corner screaming that it's still blue because it was blue yesterday. Deliciously ironic that in your effort to prove others delusional, you've only shown that your own analogy demonstrates the madness lies in your brain.

That's the weakest argument I've ever heard on fark.

No it's not. You're just pissy that your invalid analogy didn't account for the possibility of altering the sky as we can reassign gender. When your analogy was corrected to be valid, it set you ahoist by your own petard, which naturally upset you. In the future don't make a weak analogy and you can avoid further negative stimulus.

And I'll even take it step further just to show how ridiculous this is...

What if someone was born a man, but really, deep down, they identified as a dog. They got plastic surgery to look like a dog. They walked around on all fours barking like a dog. They ate like a dog. This persons mother, who feels bad for their delusional son, insists that everyone in the world call their son a dog. Let that soak in for a second, and then tell me why I should call this person a dog, and treat it like a dog, when it is a human being.

GoSurfing: Dr. Mojo PhD: GoSurfing: Dr. Mojo PhD: Ironic how in such a world, if we corrected the sky to be red, you would be standing on the street corner screaming that it's still blue because it was blue yesterday. Deliciously ironic that in your effort to prove others delusional, you've only shown that your own analogy demonstrates the madness lies in your brain.

That's the weakest argument I've ever heard on fark.

No it's not. You're just pissy that your invalid analogy didn't account for the possibility of altering the sky as we can reassign gender. When your analogy was corrected to be valid, it set you ahoist by your own petard, which naturally upset you. In the future don't make a weak analogy and you can avoid further negative stimulus.

And I'll even take it step further just to show how ridiculous this is...

What if someone was born a man, but really, deep down, they identified as a dog. They got plastic surgery to look like a dog. They walked around on all fours barking like a dog. They ate like a dog. This persons mother, who feels bad for their delusional son, insists that everyone in the world call their son a dog. Let that soak in for a second, and then tell me why I should call this person a dog, and treat it like a dog, when it is a human being.

Would like to jump in here.

Dr. Mojo PhD: You screaming like a baby that something is so doesn't make it so

I'll prove right now that gender is axiomatic. When you are born into this world with a penis, they put "male" on the birth certificate. When you are born into this world with a vagina, they put "female" on the birth certificate.

ax·i·o·mat·ic/ˌaksēəˈmatik/
Adjective:

Self-evident or unquestionable.'

Ace of Swords: Okay, so if a woman is allowed to worry her date might be a rapist, why is a trans person not allowed to worry their date might be violently bigoted against trans people, and take a little time to scout that out?

If you're worried that your date might be violent against you, period, you might have more to worry about than if that's because your transitioning. How about this? Stop dating potentially violent asshats? Maybe get to know your dates BEFORE you go out?

Another analogy - if your partner of, say, three years confided in you that she'd been sexually abused as a child, something she feels very vulnerable and insecure over, would you dump her for not telling you sooner, considering it a betrayal of trust?

Oddly enough, I've had several partners who had abuse in their pasts. Guess what? I knew that before we went out, because I actually got to know them before we went out. The point is: if you don't feel that you know someone well enough to confide in them the sex of your birth, but enough to be intrigued by them, but still worried that they might become violent if they found out, MAYBE DATING THEM IS OUT OF THE QUESTION...

Maybe, just maybe, folks are rushing into things, and then are surprised by what they find. Yeah, I'm old fashioned. I like someone, I get to know them a bit before asking them out. I laugh, I talk, I ask questions, I chat, I get a feel for the lay of the land before putting myself out there. Certainly before getting into a position where there might be sessytime.

I dated a gal recently who was very nervous when we finally went out. A month or two of flirting and chatting. We were friends for a bit, we hung out for a while. It was fun. When it came close to sessytime, she confided that she didn't just do a female ejaculation, but that she multipled like crazy. Which meant, that going down on her was a near drowning experience. It was impressive.

And to be fair, if she hadn't told me, it would have been kind freaky going in without any warning. But we were friends. We had a great time. We laughed a lot. We trusted each other before we got to that point. We invested some time to get to know one another before taking any sort of plunge.

Any time you get nekkid, there are a lot of trust issues to get through. The question is: if you don't trust someone, why are you getting nekkid with them in the first place? If you are really THAT worried that someone you're thinking about becoming intimate with can't handle who you are at a basic level, then maybe you shouldn't get intimate with that person. Plain and simple. Maybe, just maybe, you need to slow it f*ck down, or find someone you know will handle you being you better.

I have friends who are transitioning. None of their partners were particularly surprised by them. Most of their partners are folks they've known for a long while Who've been beside them for years as friends or co-workers. That's not to say that folks who are transitioning can't meet new people, but being aware and being honest should be at the top of the damn list. Just in case. It's the smart thing to do. Just like calling a friend if you're dating someone new.

Carth: GoSurfing: Dr. Mojo PhD: You screaming like a baby that something is so doesn't make it so

I'll prove right now that gender is axiomatic. When you are born into this world with a penis, they put "male" on the birth certificate. When you are born into this world with a vagina, they put "female" on the birth certificate.

ax·i·o·mat·ic/ˌaksēəˈmatik/
Adjective:

Self-evident or unquestionable.'

You can get the gender on your birth certificate changed in many (most?) states. It can also be left blank if the doctor can't determine gender.

Right, but when the medical professional saw the newborn with a penis, he did put MALE on the birth certificate, yes? Because it was SELF-EVIDENT that it was a MALE, yes?

/the sheer density

The simple truth is, trans people have enough problems in their life that they don't need me adding to it. Treating them with common respect and dignity and not making them feel like freaks diminishes my life in no way what-so-ever. So what possible reason could I possibly have for wanting to increase the amount of misery in this world?

All the anti-trans crowd just sound like "trans people make me feel icky so wah chromosomes".

Dr. Mojo PhD: GoSurfing: Dr. Mojo PhD: You screaming like a baby that something is so doesn't make it so

I'll prove right now that gender is axiomatic. When you are born into this world with a penis, they put "male" on the birth certificate. When you are born into this world with a vagina, they put "female" on the birth certificate.

ax·i·o·mat·ic/ˌaksēəˈmatik/
Adjective:

Self-evident or unquestionable.'

By your own argument, anybody living in a jurisdiction which reissues birth certificates after gender reassignment is axiomatically the new gender. You really don't know what it means to be hoisted by your own petard, do you?

No actually, that's not by my own argument. I said when you are born. What you're discussing is because of special interest groups influencing jurisdictions to permit the change of gender on a birth certificate. The argument is that a doctor, an accepted medical professional, wouldn't consider what the self-image was of the newborn in determining the gender of that newborn. Because it doesn't farking matter.

Carth: Wait so you're arguing that after gender reassignment surgery, and the birth certificate is changed, it would be self-evident the person is female?

? How? They started as a male, they will always, and forever be a male. Or again, get the biology books rewritten please.

She feels like a real girl? Is feeling the contestants part of the judging criteria? Where do I get the job?

Carth: GoSurfing: Dr. Mojo PhD: GoSurfing: Dr. Mojo PhD: You screaming like a baby that something is so doesn't make it so

I'll prove right now that gender is axiomatic. When you are born into this world with a penis, they put "male" on the birth certificate. When you are born into this world with a vagina, they put "female" on the birth certificate.

ax·i·o·mat·ic/ˌaksēəˈmatik/
Adjective:

Self-evident or unquestionable.'

By your own argument, anybody living in a jurisdiction which reissues birth certificates after gender reassignment is axiomatically the new gender. You really don't know what it means to be hoisted by your own petard, do you?

No actually, that's not by my own argument. I said when you are born. What you're discussing is because of special interest groups influencing jurisdictions to permit the change of gender on a birth certificate. The argument is that a doctor, an accepted medical professional, wouldn't consider what the self-image was of the newborn in determining the gender of that newborn. Because it doesn't farking matter.

So you just don't understand what an axiom is in mathematics or logic. If a medical professional has to make a judgement it isn't an axiom.

/or you're just trolling

Not trolling in the slightest. A man is born a man, a woman is born a woman. There are no shifts between the two genders. You can't be born a woman, and then change your mind, and then begin producing sperm, and have a child. You can't be born a man, and then change your mind, and then get pregnant, and deliver birth to a child. I'm sorry if this truth disturbs you. Because in the end, that's what it comes down to, and until that changes, I won't entertain these people's fantastical, deluded minds.

Just imagine if everyone went around in their own little fantastical Candy Land, demanding everyone else acknowledge their delusions. It would suck.

GoSurfing:

Not trolling in the slightest. A man is born a man, a woman is born a woman. There are no shifts between the two genders.

Okay! I see your problem now. You're confusing sex with gender. One is between your legs, the other is between your ears. That's why you seem to think there's only two genders.

RoyBatty: Ghastly: GoSurfing:

Not trolling in the slightest. A man is born a man, a woman is born a woman. There are no shifts between the two genders.

Okay! I see your problem now. You're confusing sex with gender. One is between your legs, the other is between your ears. That's why you seem to think there's only two genders.

More relevant question: how do I get someone else's ears between my legs (and vice-versa).

The Irish call it whiskey.

Dr. Mojo PhD: Carth: So in your world people born with both sex organs that can neither have children nor produce sperm are what? Out of luck? Gender is binary and since they don't fit in either category they lose out?

KiplingKat872: So we're back to chikd proction as a criteria of gender? Does that make a sterile woman or man not a member of the female or male genders? What are they then.

You both beat me to it. Funny thing is, this won't cause GoSurfing to realize he's a complete farking idiot. He'll just move the goalposts again.


Yes I'm the idiot. Those of you with dick pussies are really, actually women. Got it.

FarkinHostile: We already have a definition for a person born a male, feels female and lives as a female. It's called Transgendered Male. Not Female, and not 100% Real Woman. Transgendered Male. That is the correct term, and there is nothing to be ashamed of about being one.

This is what I don't get. What difference does it make to you what other people believe themselves to be, as long as it's in good faith? To me, this seems as silly as the people who say isn't that Obama isn't actually "black", he's really "half black" or whatever. I mean, it might even be true that they don't think there's anything wrong or negative with the alternative they're suggesting, but it would be exceptionally silly for someone to say "Why does he have to call himself black? The correct term is mulatto and it's nothing to be ashamed of."

Biological Ali: but it would be exceptionally silly for someone to say "Why does he have to call himself black? The correct term is mulatto and it's nothing to be ashamed of."

At least he's not one of those abominable quadroons. Can you believe they actually expect us to treat them like they were born with a soul?

Biological Ali: I mean, it might even be true that they don't think there's anything wrong or negative with the alternative they're suggesting, but it would be exceptionally silly for someone to say "Why does he have to call himself black? The correct term is mulatto and it's nothing to be ashamed of."

That isn't exceptionally silly, considering he calls himself black for political purposes. And it isn't exceptionally silly, because you would have to cede the argument if Barack Obama called himself white...which would be exceptionally silly.

Dr. Mojo PhD: And now you're simply whining.

Actually I'm just making fun of the absurdity of your claims. Dr. Mojo PhD: - Made a claim that rests on the idea that infertile people have no gender.

You're the one shifting the goalposts by the way.

That isn't the claim at all. The claim is that if gender is fluid, then someone born a man would be able to deliver birth to a child, which isn't yet possible, which means that gender isn't fluid.

GoSurfing: It's only a flesh wound.

Okay, fine. You win. Happy Skippy?

GoSurfing

Your trolling's going to have to be a little more subtle if you actually intend to get a response out of me.

Ace of Swords: Even so, you didn't answer my hypothetical - if a women did disclose to you some time into her relationship with you that she'd been sexually abused as a child, would you consider it a betrayal of ...

I didn't answer it because that's something that I usually find out a bit before there's even dating involved. Your hypothetical is, to be quite fair, something that usually occurs within that whole trust building exercise that IS dating, if not even before that.

Again, maybe I'm old fashioned, but I tend to get to know folks before I ask them out. I don't use dating to get to know someone, I use dating as an audition into their bed. I like to know folks before getting to that stage. Then again, I tend to date folks that I'm friends with first, as opposed to just asking someone out of the blue...

Biological Ali: GoSurfing

Your trolling's going to have to be a little more subtle if you actually intend to get a response out of me.

Ah yes, it's always trolling when you're shown to be wrong.

Barack Hussein Obama is half-black and half-white, yes? I don't know the full extent of his family tree, but this is a common truth, yes? And a mulatto is the term ascribed to someone that is half-black and half-white, yes? And so if Barack Obama identifies as black, and this isn't exceptionally silly, then if Barack Obama identified as white, it ALSO wouldn't be exceptionally silly, right?

Dr. Mojo PhD: GoSurfing: Actually I'm just making fun of the absurdity of your claims.

We've demonstrated conclusively that your claims are absurd. You have been made to look like an idiot again and again. It's because you are an idiot. You're just stamping your little feet, upset and angry that everybody laughed at your "DOCTOR MARKS BIRF CERTIFCT SO AXIOM!" line, as they rightly should. You need to be reminded of this as much as possible.

GoSurfing: You're the one shifting the goalposts by the way.

That isn't the claim at all.

Sure it is. Let's take a look at your statement:

GoSurfing: A man is born a man, a woman is born a woman. There are no shifts between the two genders. You can't be born a woman, and then change your mind, and then begin producing sperm, and have a child. You can't be born a man, and then change your mind, and then get pregnant, and deliver birth to a child. I'm sorry if this truth disturbs you.

Your statement hinges on reproductive viability. For something to be a "truth", as you assert, it must be universally true. Therefore, those unable to reproduce, whether or not they undergo gender reassignment, cannot possibly be male or female. You yourself have said so. And then denied you ever said it. Pathetic and useless. How do you get through life with the functional understanding of an idiot? I don't get it, why not just hang yourself? Is it because you're too stupid to manage, or too stupid to understand you should feel ashamed at how pathetic you are?

Right, it's my foot-stamping insistence that's idiotic...not those with mutilated penises claiming to be women or vice versa.

KiplingKat872: That is not right or fair for you to dictate how these people choose to think of themselves and intetact with the world when they are committing no crime and not hurting you in anyway.

For the record, I'm not anti-LGBT. I'm all for personal freedom, do what ever you'd like to your body. Consider yourself whatever you'd like to consider yourself, be with whoever you'd like to be with. I just think I'm not automatically obligated to call you what you think of yourself, and I don't know why that would make me a bigot.