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(Toronto Star)   "She feels like a real girl and she is a real girl." Transgendered contestant booted from Miss Universe Canada pageant. Yes, you would   (thestar.com) divider line 561
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30791 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Mar 2012 at 8:44 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-24 01:59:31 PM  

Dr. Mojo PhD: Can we discriminate between this scenario and a scenario where a person identifies as another species? Yes. Has a human being ever expressed itself, on a genetic level, as a hybrid with another species? No. Is it possible to produce such a person? No. Therefore the situations are in no way the same, it is elementary to understand they aren't the same, and the question you've asked is stupid because it is based on a comparison that is meaningless and invalid.


For another thing, to actually be another species would entail a number of biological differences, including having a brain whose capacity for sentience is so weak that you would, in all likelihood, lack any appreciation for whether you are the "correct" species or not. As to the pictures posted in this thread, they're more likely people who simply found the physical attributes of certain animals to be attractive; I highly doubt whether there's too many examples of people who actually believe that they're members of another species.
 
2012-03-24 02:00:13 PM  
I'm convinced there are a lot of farkers will nail anything that looks good and stands still long enough.
 
2012-03-24 02:03:27 PM  
Sign me up for the spanks.

/likes handprints
 
2012-03-24 02:04:38 PM  

traylor: "naturally born female"

So they ask the contestants whether they were born with c-section? That's weird.


images.spinalcolumnonline.com

Sorry, the contest specifies "natural born US female". It's in the Constitution.
 
2012-03-24 02:07:01 PM  
Hey he looks great, no doubt, but the fact that it's a guy would bother me.

I don't like this idea it's OK for someone to pass themselves off as something they are not, especially if a relationship is a possible result.

As far as TGs go, If that's your thing, go for it, doesn't mean you're necessarily full on gay, more accurately perhaps just gay enough where the thought does something for you even if you would never be aroused by a regular man. Hell I figure if there are men who are attracted to very masculine men or feminine men or trannys or TGs, then homosexuality comes in shades of grey not black and white.

Either way, people just have to be honest who they are and what they like, it's the path to true happiness in whatever relationship you're in no matter what your sexual preference dictates.
 
2012-03-24 02:07:14 PM  
can't believe she didn't tell me she was a guy that night after the whole 'HONESTY' pillow talk........that biatch borrowed money off me for the morning after pill

Now i know she's lying about the baby being mine
 
2012-03-24 02:07:42 PM  

Dr. Mojo PhD: KiplingKat872: Actually, spanking doesn't do a darn thing for me, but so long as it isn't painful I don't mind it. So if it winds him up I just roll with it.

Some women enjoy the sensation of pain (to varying degrees), especially because sexual excitement acts as a painkiller. I like when a woman sinks her teeth into my shoulders during sex, but if some broad just came up to me on the street and bit me I'd be pretty pissed off.

Of course, we frequently see pain intermingled with sex -- it's nothing new or novel:
[i.imgur.com image 302x350]


Biting is about making sure someone stays in place, yes? No one wants to end up like male bees, with their genitals torn off.
 
2012-03-24 02:11:38 PM  

FarkinHostile: So...why does it take radical surgery and years of hormonal treatment to correct gender in these people? That's nature? I'm pretty sure Nature doesn't require over a year of psychiatric evaluation before one is a cat.


Why does it take human intervention to satisfy our natural urge to kill? That's nature?
(Yes, it is. We're a tool-using, problem-solving animal. It's what we do.)

FarkinHostile: Also, I'm pretty sure that we share...what? Over 98%? of the genetics of our simian relatives, so absolute is a strong word to use.


No, it's not. Until any of that "sharing" results in hybridization or a more fluid expression like we see in sex characteristics, it is the correct word to use.

FarkinHostile: Where is the line? How many genes shared makes one a "whatever"?


As many as it takes to express something else, be that one or one trillion. It's not a quota, or a matter of amount. It's a matter of what's necessary to accomplish the end result.

FarkinHostile: Hmmm...I wonder if some higher intelligence animals think they are the wrong gender? If this is a natural occurrence, like animal homosexuality, then the answer must be yes.


Why must the answer be yes? That's a stupid assumption to make. It's entirely possible that it's a unique expression of our nature. You're confusing the notion that because animals also express homosexual tendencies, demonstrating with absolute certainty that homosexuality isn't some "choice" to be made, that the opposite must be true if other animals do not express such tendencies. That is, again, an extremely stupid assumption to make. For a person who talks about logical fallacies as you do:

FarkinHostile: That is one that is very difficult to answer without resorting to all sorts of obvious logical fallacies.


You'd figure you would want to avoid committing the obvious logical fallacy of affirming the consequent:

If P, then Q.
Q.
Therefore P.

If non-human animals express a tendency, then the tendency is natural.
The tendency is natural.
Therefore non-human animals express the tendency.
 
2012-03-24 02:14:23 PM  

Biological Ali: Transgendered people do actually believe themselves to be the gender that they represent themselves to be. As such, it's not a "lie" in the sense that the term is normally understood.

You could argue that it's a "lie by omission", of course, but that's a much weaker standard that could apply to any number of details. There would have been a period in US history where, say, people finding out that you had some nonwhite ancestry from four generations prior could have resulted in some unpleasant things happening to you - and possibly even more so if some nutjob you interacted with decided that you "lied by omission" because you didn't mention that detail to him.

There are several ways that this state of affairs could be dealt with. One "solution" has already been proposed in this thread - the people "lying by omission" should simply stop doing that, they should be completely "honest" about their histories with the people they interact with, and they should simply watch out who they hang out with etc. etc. I don't consider this to be a particularly good option, since it will only result in the already-stigmatized group having to become even more insular and disconnected from society in order to protect themselves, all the while providing soft validation for the people that assault them by promoting the notion that they simply had it coming for daring to involve themselves in society and expecting to be treated with a modicum of respect.

This last point i ...


I live in the Happy Valley in Western Mass. I have several friends who are either transitioning, who have transitioned, and some who stopped and are happy the way they are, but are sort of in between, and found someone who loves them the way they are.

The thing that is constant, with all of these folks, is that they are who they are, and it's not a matter of the gender of their birth, but who they are now. That is accepted, and if someone wants me to call them him, and give him advice on how to adjust a sock in public while they get their hormones adjusted and figure out if they really want to go through with surgery, that's fine.

Lies of omission are an issue. Most of the folks who are transitioning, I sort of figured that out early on. I accepted that they wanted to be called the gender of their choice, and hung out. Not everyone picks up on it though, and where folks get into trouble, are those lies of omission. And if you are have gender issues, it's usually a good idea to be aware that those sorts of things have the potential to be dangerous. Well, that, and to pick your friends well, and excise violent asshats from your regular circle.

The Unitarian Society I attend has a few folks who are transitioning. It's a good community for that. Boils down to it: who you are matters, more than what you call yourself.

Chaske, our very gay Sioux from Colorado, I don't care that he liked fellas, or that he liked to wear girl's underwear--stealing them from the laundryroom, that was an issue, and pretty much all his best friends threw something at him in the course of the summer for going through their clothes and showing up a party with something of theirs on, but HE thought it was funny, and the gals and he worked that out. Generally with some noogies and making him pay for drinks. He was what he was, and it was out there, 100%. I can respect the crap out of that, because while he was annoying as Hells at times, he didn't apologize for being who he was.

Be who you are. And if that means being careful with who you hang out with, then be careful.

The funny thing? I had to nearly get into more brawls for my straight but douchey room mate, than to protect Chaske from pissed off ranch hands. They knew, within 5 minutes, who and what they were dealing with in Chaske. Brian? He snuck up on you with being a lying little douche. I'd rather have an annoying but honest queen throwing crap at me at 7 in the morning to get my ass up to take him to town so he could get some breakfast, than a lying straight man trying to scam girls into sleeping with him.

It's the honesty factor in the end.
 
2012-03-24 02:15:54 PM  
Is there anyone here who can do a comparison of a man made cootch and a factory install?
 
2012-03-24 02:16:13 PM  

kiwimoogle84: Sign me up for the spanks.

/likes handprints


Dammit kiwi. Here I am trying to follow a flamey but serious TG argument, and there you are bringing the saxy and ruining my focus.

....I guess it's not all bad though.

/pretty good at the spanks
 
2012-03-24 02:16:17 PM  

Dr. Mojo PhD: RedVentrue: XX is female, XY is male. Some small percentage is both or neither.

And what about Klinefelter's Syndrome? Does that fall under XX, XY, both, or neither? Are you saying a Klinefelter's male isn't male by virtue of being XXY? Is he both for being XX(Y) and (X)XY? Is he neither? What about a 46XX/46XY chimera with both testicular and ovarian tissue where one set of tissue is non-functioning? Is that both by virtue of the chimera, or, say, 66% one gender, 33% the other, by virtue of having two fully functional characteristics of one gender, and only one of the other? Or is "both" leaven in the sense of Galatians 5:9, where a little leaven leavens the whole lump?


That goes under the small percentage of both, or neither.
 
2012-03-24 02:16:25 PM  

FarkinHostile: I just don't agree that a TG man is 100% female


I like you, and agree with you most of the time, but I think you're being a little kneejerk about this subject. You might want to consider whether your emotions or your prejudices aren't running your brain here.

People are born all the time who are not "100%" male or female. Some girls are born XXY. Some are born with hormone imbalances or with genitalia that's slightly ambiguous. Most of them look totally normal, and live completely normal lives as whatever sex they most resemble. You've probably met some. The trans girl in TFA is only different as a matter of degree.

In other words, why do you care so much about the 100% thing? If you found out tomorrow that you had an extra X chromosome and your parents never told you, would you think of yourself any differently?

Also, what "percentage female" would you say the girl in TFA is? What percentage would you say a woman is who is born otherwise "normally" but who can't have children? Just curious.

Bit'O'Gristle: I personally don't have a issue with TG people per say, but if i met one that was interested in me in a romantic way, i would expect them to be up front about the sex change. I'm a hetro male, and i have 0 desire to sleep with guys.


If your desire to avoid sleeping with what you consider to be a man is more intellectual than physical, I wouldn't rush to call yourself "hetero".

To put it another way, if you met a girl, talked to her, smelled her, and became sexually aroused, I've got news for you- you're attracted to whatever she is. If it turns out she's trans, you've got two choices: Either accept that you're gay (or bi), because you just found a guy attractive, or accept that she's a girl for all pertinent definitions, and go on with your life.

I'll never understand the terror some guys have of being "tricked into being gay". You're attracted to whomever you're attracted to. Labels don't change that.

MoronLessOff: Now, let's get back to discussing whether or not this chick is bangable.


From her pictures, I can tentatively say that I'd hit it. You never really know until you meet somebody though.

hubiestubert: It's not homophobic or transphobic to want honesty.


True. But then you have the question of what and how much is generally required to reveal about yourself at a given point in a relationship. Can't have kids? I'd expect someone to tell me this before we got married, sure. But not on the first date, or even the first time we had sex. Most things that we need to know about someone are generally revealed in conversation as you get to know one another.

If you meet someone, are attracted to them enough to have sex and fall in love, and then you find out that they're trans, would you stop loving them? I'd suggest that if the answer is "yes", you should explicitly include "Did you used to be a man?" in your list of first date questions, because you have some serious issues, and it would be unfair to your prospective partner to keep them hidden.

It shouldn't matter if someone is trans or not. You're either attracted to them, or you aren't. If your intellectual perception of sex and gender is more important than your partner's personality, thoughts, feelings and appearance, and your own body and heart's reaction to those things, well... it doesn't make you a bigot, but it makes you a sad, sad man.
 
2012-03-24 02:17:55 PM  

MoronLessOff: kiwimoogle84: Sign me up for the spanks.

/likes handprints

Dammit kiwi. Here I am trying to follow a flamey but serious TG argument, and there you are bringing the saxy and ruining my focus.

....I guess it's not all bad though.

/pretty good at the spanks


I'm trying to lighten the mood here. There's been some serious anger in this thread.
 
2012-03-24 02:20:02 PM  
Sure, why nit?
 
2012-03-24 02:22:13 PM  

Peekoo: hubiestubert: I like girls. I sometimes like to smack girls on the bottom with the flat of my hand in the moment.

What's with this? I've seen cumulatively in my entire life about 5-10 minutes of porn, and this always occurs. I can't figure out what men get from this. Can you enlighten me? This is a genuinely honest question.


It turns a lot of women on. Seriously, I've been with a lot of women and I'd say more than half of them have asked to be spanked (in the heat, not like, daddy roleplaying), or generally played rough with. And they're not getting it from me, because it doesn't really do anything for me.

As for why it's all over porn, I couldn't really say.
 
2012-03-24 02:22:18 PM  

kiwimoogle84: MoronLessOff: kiwimoogle84: Sign me up for the spanks.

/likes handprints

Dammit kiwi. Here I am trying to follow a flamey but serious TG argument, and there you are bringing the saxy and ruining my focus.

....I guess it's not all bad though.

/pretty good at the spanks

I'm trying to lighten the mood here. There's been some serious anger in this thread.


That also is not all bad. See?

Ghastly: Woohoo! Hate sex is best sex!


But it is pretty disappointing to have to sort through the name calling to get someone's point.
 
2012-03-24 02:22:57 PM  

xcv: XCV's alpha version of the expanded English language ends the need for deception on part of the TG community and saves people like this contestant from hurt feelings

anawoman = XX phenotype person that dismisses her biological configuration.
anaman = XY phenotype male that dismisses his biological sex configuration.
anaconda = large snake, probably satisfied being a snake, not happy with bad rap snakes get from the bible.

Don't want none unless you got buns, hon.

If the contest was open to women and anamen it would have been acceptable for anaher to apply.


FTFY
 
2012-03-24 02:24:19 PM  

doglover: the rules of the franchise specifically state that only naturally born females are eligible


So an F2M transgender can try out?

That said, s/he's got the Paris Hilton Squint. Given that, even if I would I wouldn't.

I am waiter hear me roar: It shouldn't matter if someone is trans or not. You're either attracted to them, or you aren't.


Bullshiat. I'm attracted to Brad Pitt but I still wouldn't fark him, and cosmetic surgery doesn't change what you are.
 
2012-03-24 02:24:36 PM  

trenchael: xcv: XCV's alpha version of the expanded English language ends the need for deception on part of the TG community and saves people like this contestant from hurt feelings

anawoman = XX phenotype person that dismisses her biological configuration.
anaman = XY phenotype male that dismisses his biological sex configuration.
anaconda = large snake, probably satisfied being a snake, not happy with bad rap snakes get from the bible.
Don't want none unless you got buns, hon.

If the contest was open to women and anamen it would have been acceptable for anaher to apply.

FTFY


I lol'd. Well played.
 
2012-03-24 02:24:49 PM  
What I've learned from this thread (and FarkinHostile...

Don't say you dislike dishonesty and liars. Some people take offence to that.
 
2012-03-24 02:25:19 PM  

KiplingKat872: Biological Ali: hubiestubert: For all the bagging on FarkinHostile, it boils down to not wanting to be lied to. Nothing more. Nothing less. That's not homophobic. That's not transphobic. That's just wanting good friends.

Good people don't start friendships by lying to them. It's not healthy.

That's not the way to start any relationship. Not a friendship. Not a romantic relationship. If you're afraid that someone might get violent with you, if you tell them the truth about yourself: DON'T DATE THAT MOTHERF*CKER IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Transgendered people do actually believe themselves to be the gender that they represent themselves to be. As such, it's not a "lie" in the sense that the term is normally understood.

You could argue that it's a "lie by omission", of course, but that's a much weaker standard that could apply to any number of details. There would have been a period in US history where, say, people finding out that you had some nonwhite ancestry from four generations prior could have resulted in some unpleasant things happening to you - and possibly even more so if some nutjob you interacted with decided that you "lied by omission" because you didn't mention that detail to him.

There are several ways that this state of affairs could be dealt with. One "solution" has already been proposed in this thread - the people "lying by omission" should simply stop doing that, they should be completely "honest" about their histories with the people they interact with, and they should simply watch out who they hang out with etc. etc. I don't consider this to be a particularly good option, since it will only result in the already-stigmatized group having to become even more insular and disconnected from society in order to protect themselves, all the while providing soft validation for the people that assault them by promoting the notion that they simply had it coming for daring to involve themselves in society and expecting to be treated with a modicum of respect.

T ...


Indians have a third gender.
 
2012-03-24 02:26:29 PM  

trenchael: xcv: XCV's alpha version of the expanded English language ends the need for deception on part of the TG community and saves people like this contestant from hurt feelings

anawoman = XX phenotype person that dismisses her biological configuration.
anaman = XY phenotype male that dismisses his biological sex configuration.
anaconda = large snake, probably satisfied being a snake, not happy with bad rap snakes get from the bible.
Don't want none unless you got buns, hon.

If the contest was open to women and anamen it would have been acceptable for anaher to apply.

FTFY


*snerk*

Would lol again
 
2012-03-24 02:26:43 PM  
"She feels like a real girl and she is a real girl."

No she is not. It does not matter how he feels his chromosomes say boy not girl.
 
2012-03-24 02:33:56 PM  
Perhaps Davila is just feeling the shame after a tryst on the casting couch.

/sex with a transgendered person would make you gay if you are a right-wing fundie Republican
//then you should not be having sex at all
///or at least not enjoying it
 
2012-03-24 02:34:37 PM  

hubiestubert: Carth: How do you know if a person is going to resort to violence until you get to know them? FarkinHostile seems to take the position you have to disclose your transgendered before you can judge how the person would react? Keep in mind that 86% of trans people report having been assaulted (PDF warning) at some point when disclosing their status and 12% have been assaulted more than 20 times for that reason.

While Farkinhostile may be a non violent person it isn't unsurprising that transgendered people are weary to tell people they born gender right away with how often they are victimized when they do.

How often do you date folks that you don't trust? That's pretty much the issue. The question IS in the timing.

If I were dating someone, and they told me, after a few months, that they used to be a man, yes, I'd be upset.

Not because she used to be a dude--but because she lied to me for so long. Didn't trust me for so long. Assumed that I was a violent asshat--which, in fairness, being a former bouncer is something that I AM actually a little sensitive about.

Being transgendered doesn't preclude folks from making bad relationship calls. I understand that. I understand fear. I understand that there are some violent asshats out there. I don't understand why someone who is transgendered would date someone that they feel might go off on them if he found out that they were transgendered.

Then again, I have no idea why women stay with men who make them feel like sh*t about themselves either, so what the Hells do I know...


It isn't a matter of dating people you don't trust, it is trusting people you shouldn't. The amount of physical, sexual and emotional abuse in the cis or trans community says people are pretty bad at deciding who to trust. If a person has trusted the wrong partner a few times and gotten beat for it I can understand why they might not volunteer that information as soon as they meet someone new since they know their ability to determine who they should trust is flawed.
 
2012-03-24 02:34:54 PM  

hasty ambush: "She feels like a real girl and she is a real girl."

No she is not. It does not matter how he feels his chromosomes say boy not girl.


Do you always examine people's chromosomes? Do you mitigate your disappointment at not being able to get into some celebrities short by telling yourself they have "sharp centromeres?"

What about the fact that their psycology identitfies them as a woman.
 
2012-03-24 02:37:58 PM  
As I read the comments I see a lot of transgendered supporters bash those who refuse to accept the position that a transgendered actually becomes the other sex after they have a sex change. I think that is an unfair position.

A post op transgendered person is exactly that. They are someone who has made a decision to have their physical body altered to give the appearance of the opposite sex. Their genetic material remains the same. Their chromosomes remain unchanged.

Genetically, they are no more the opposite sex simply because they had a major operation than a redhead that colors her hair blond actually becomes a blond, or a brown eyed person who wears blue contacts becomes blue eyed.

The insistence by some that a post op transgendered person magically becomes the opposite sex is troubling.

Why can't the status of post op transgendered be embraced as a positive thing, instead of claiming they are a "real" girl or boy? Why do we have to push them into one of two existing boxes instead of recognizing that there are many boxes that have equal value? Finally, it would seem that if more post op transgendered persons would embrace their status that it would make it easier for those who are experiencing troubles with their sexuality and physical form to make the decision to have a sex change.
 
2012-03-24 02:40:53 PM  

Biological Ali: My proposed solution, therefore, would be to embark upon a society-wide campaign of de-stigmatization. Instead of shaming the transgendered by validating the irrationality of those bigoted against them, you shame the bigots themselves, and you don't stop shaming them until the fact that a person is transgendered is considered as trivial a detail as the fact that he or she had black ancestors.


How about all of the people who are scared of being "tricked" by trans people just come out and ask, "Did you used to be a guy"? as early in the dating transaction as they deem necessary, so everyone knows that it's their biggest concern when starting a relationship. It might not go over too well with most of the ladies, but at least they can rest a little easier.

"Hi, can I buy you a drink?"
"Sure."
'Great.. now before I start hitting on you, did you used to be a guy?"
[drink in face]

"Oh god, I'm so hot for you right now. I've been thinking about your body all day."
"Me too, I want you to tear my dress off, and take me like an animal."
"Awesome. I can see you have a vagina, but it looks a little unusual. Did you used to be male?"
[stomp stomp stomp, door slamming]

/it would be just as awkward the other way around
 
2012-03-24 02:42:08 PM  

Carth: hubiestubert: Carth: How do you know if a person is going to resort to violence until you get to know them? FarkinHostile seems to take the position you have to disclose your transgendered before you can judge how the person would react? Keep in mind that 86% of trans people report having been assaulted (PDF warning) at some point when disclosing their status and 12% have been assaulted more than 20 times for that reason.

While Farkinhostile may be a non violent person it isn't unsurprising that transgendered people are weary to tell people they born gender right away with how often they are victimized when they do.

How often do you date folks that you don't trust? That's pretty much the issue. The question IS in the timing.

If I were dating someone, and they told me, after a few months, that they used to be a man, yes, I'd be upset.

Not because she used to be a dude--but because she lied to me for so long. Didn't trust me for so long. Assumed that I was a violent asshat--which, in fairness, being a former bouncer is something that I AM actually a little sensitive about.

Being transgendered doesn't preclude folks from making bad relationship calls. I understand that. I understand fear. I understand that there are some violent asshats out there. I don't understand why someone who is transgendered would date someone that they feel might go off on them if he found out that they were transgendered.

Then again, I have no idea why women stay with men who make them feel like sh*t about themselves either, so what the Hells do I know...

It isn't a matter of dating people you don't trust, it is trusting people you shouldn't. The amount of physical, sexual and emotional abuse in the cis or trans community says people are pretty bad at deciding who to trust. If a person has trusted the wrong partner a few times and gotten beat for it I can understand why they might not volunteer that information as soon as they meet someone new since they know their ability to determine ...


Be honest from the very start with people you intend on having a physical relationship with and you won't ever have this problem.
 
2012-03-24 02:43:19 PM  

I am waiter hear me roar: True. But then you have the question of what and how much is generally required to reveal about yourself at a given point in a relationship. Can't have kids? I'd expect someone to tell me this before we got married, sure. But not on the first date, or even the first time we had sex. Most things that we need to know about someone are generally revealed in conversation as you get to know one another.

If you meet someone, are attracted to them enough to have sex and fall in love, and then you find out that they're trans, would you stop loving them? I'd suggest that if the answer is "yes", you should explicitly include "Did you used to be a man?" in your list of first date questions, because you have some serious issues, and it would be unfair to your prospective partner to keep them hidden.


Friend of mine was in a relationship with a woman, and she eventually revealed to her partner that she used to date men. It ended the relationship, because she was "surprise Bi" as her girlfriend called it. It was a deal breaker.

Is her girlfriend a sad individual because she felt she'd been lied to? About who she thought she was with, and then found out, that wasn't so? It's not about being sad, it's about feeling like you weren't trusted enough. That's the deal breaker. Not enough trust. Not the equipment involved, but the trust.

The gal I'm with now, used to date girls. Was with a woman fairly exclusively before we got together. I like her ex--she's crazy butch, but we can drink together and she treated the girl critter well. The hallmark of this relationship is that we are 100% honest with one another--to be fair, that should be the hallmark of all relationships, but for our friendship to start, she laid it out, that there could be 0% bullsh*t. There are no surprises, because either I trust her, or I don't, and I trust her. She trusts me, and we don't keep odd secrets--and that is more the issue. Not gender or partners or crap like that, but that we trust each other with anything.

You're keeping stuff from a partner IS the issue. Not the gender, but the trust.
 
2012-03-24 02:44:10 PM  

EbolaNYC: Be honest from the very start with people you intend on having a physical relationship with and you won't ever have this problem.


Unless the person you are honest with happens to be a violent bigot and you get beat for it. Which according to the previous link happens to between 60-80% of trans people at some point in their life.
 
2012-03-24 02:44:14 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Bullshiat. I'm attracted to Brad Pitt but I still wouldn't fark him


You're sexually attracted to Brad Pitt? If so, why wouldn't you hit it?
 
2012-03-24 02:47:03 PM  
Apply the blowjob test. If he/she gives a good blowjob he/she's a he.
 
2012-03-24 02:48:10 PM  

Dr. Mojo PhD: FarkinHostile: That point made, TG people, why must you insist you are something you truly are not? This is my only problem with TG people: this insistence that your psychological issue somehow trumps biology and what the rest of society defines as female, and that I am somehow a bigot if I don't agree with your fantasy/delusion.

Here's a simple question. If your brain (assuming you have one) was plucked from your body and kept alive in a box, would you stop being you? No, of course not, that's stupid, the consciousness, or soul, or whatever you want to call it, resides in the psyche of the person, not the meat machine.

If the brain does not agree with the body on the gender, the body is de facto wrong. It's not optional, or debatable, or questionable. The body is a lifeless servant to the mind; where the body rebels it must be brought to heel. A brain in a box would still have all the wants and needs as a brain in a body, a body without a brain would just be musculature over a skeletal system wired with nerves to obey a non-present brain.


media.animevice.com


/hotlinked
//KYA-KYA-HAHAHAHAHAH
 
2012-03-24 02:52:11 PM  

ReverendJasen: FarkinHostile: I still haven't found any post where I express hate or anything that can be construed as hostility toward TG people.

For the record, I didn't say you were hateful.
I just think you are taking a somewhat strict approach in definition. Yes, they don't have a uterus. But if they don't lie about that, it shouldn't matter. For instance, the girl in this article, I would personally consider to be a woman, and I'd treat her that way. She/he is not trying to be a lizard or a cat.


You serious? His definition is too rigid?

If a black person gets a skin bleaching operation to appear more white we just don't suddenly call him 'white'. They're still black- same reasoning with people. I don't care what you THINK you are; if your genes say you are one thing, biologically that's what you are. When you get into a relationship with somebody else you have a biological expectation that the person you're emotionally attached to IS what they represent themselves to be. So it's not unreasonable for some people to want their partners to be forthright about such a touchy subject.

If you're straight and have no interest in TG people, and you make that KNOWN, you shouldn't be put to task by the LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ (that should just about cover everything, right?) crowd for having your own opinions and preferences.
 
2012-03-24 02:53:32 PM  

hubiestubert: Is her girlfriend a sad individual because she felt she'd been lied to? About who she thought she was with, and then found out, that wasn't so? It's not about being sad, it's about feeling like you weren't trusted enough. That's the deal breaker. Not enough trust. Not the equipment involved, but the trust.


Her girlfriend (the dumper) is a sad individual because she cares more about her partner's orientation and her past than about who her partner is today. If she asked "have you ever dated guys?" and was lied to, I could see being angry. But to assume that just because she cares that much about her partner's "lesbian purity" or whatever that it's OK to expect her partner to read her mind, and actively disclose that specific information? That's the dumper's issue, not the dumpee's.
 
2012-03-24 02:59:21 PM  

sharkbeagle: Apply the blowjob test. If he/she gives a good blowjob he/she's a he.


I am offended by this remark.

/100% woman
 
2012-03-24 02:59:30 PM  
Came for the pics of hot TG women.

/Leaving disappointed...
 
2012-03-24 02:59:58 PM  

hubiestubert: You're keeping stuff from a partner IS the issue. Not the gender, but the trust.


It's your partner's job to be honest with you . It's your job to communicate your expectations regarding that honesty. If you discover something world-shaking about your partner far enough into your relationship for it to matter, isn't it at least partly your own fault for not being honest and up front about what's important to you? Don't assume that just because someone doesn't volunteer something, that they're intentionally hiding it. Don't assume that everything that matters to you, matters to everyone else.
 
2012-03-24 03:00:07 PM  
Her body is pretty decent, but she's got a butta face. Lay off the plastic surgery, honey.
 
2012-03-24 03:00:10 PM  
Dr. Mojo PhD:

Why does it take human intervention to satisfy our natural urge to kill? That's nature?
(Yes, it is. We're a tool-using, problem-solving animal. It's what we do.)

Dumb this one down for me, Doc. Are you saying we don't kill anymore? Or we need tools to do it?


No, it's not. Until any of that "sharing" results in hybridization or a more fluid expression like we see in sex characteristics, it is the correct word to use.

As many as it takes to express something else, be that one or one trillion. It's not a quota, or a matter of amount. It's a matter of what's necessary to accomplish the end result.


Ah, so YOUR definition of what is the correct words is the one true definition. I guess people who have genetic defects that prevent reproduction are not human. Got to be able to breed true to be human, right? Gonna suck to tell all of those poor mutations they are not human.

Can you see how silly it is to use such an argument when the same argument can be used to express the opposite?

Why must the answer be yes? That's a stupid assumption to make.


Oooh, you like throwing that Stupid word around, eh, Doc? Not very polite, nor a good technique, so apparently you must not like the idea. Actually, it is a reasonable conjecture, considering humans are animals and share many behaviors/characteristics such as homosexuality. I suppose human are different, right? Better than all other forms of animals, right? We are special, and somehow above biology. Pfft. If gender dimorphism has biological roots, which it apparently does, it is quite reasonable to hypothesize that some animals, like dolphins or elephants, with similar capacity for thought to have it.

Conjecture, sure, but stupid it ain't.


It's entirely possible that it's a unique expression of our nature.


Ah, you're anthropocentric. I see now.


You're confusing the notion that because animals also express homosexual tendencies, demonstrating with absolute certainty that homosexuality isn't some "choice" to be made, that the opposite must be true if other animals do not express such tendencies. That is, again, an extremely stupid assumption to make.



"Three! Three times you use Stupid in this thread! Ah ah ah!"

So much for you being an exception.


You'd figure you would want to avoid committing the obvious logical fallacy of affirming the consequent:

If P, then Q.
Q.
Therefore P.

If non-human animals express a tendency, then the tendency is natural.
The tendency is natural.
Therefore non-human animals express the tendency..


You got me there, nevertheless I strongly believe that we are more like our animal relatives then not, and if we have a natural biological tenancy, such as homosexuality some animals could have the same tenancies, and with homosexuality they most certainly do. So why not gender dimorphism?



Anyway, work is over, so in summary, let me say this:

Definitions are quite a can of worms. Things like orientation and identity are fluid, as has been stated so many times here today. I learned there are all sorts of new words to define things, like "Cissexual". New one for me. We already have a definition for a person born a male, feels female and lives as a female. It's called Transgendered Male. Not Female, and not 100% Real Woman. Transgendered Male. That is the correct term, and there is nothing to be ashamed of about being one. I still love and respect you, and will fight against true bigotry vilifying you as anything less than a person. Just accept what you are, who you are and be honest with all. Don't be a liar, or use cowardliness as an excuse to lie. Be true.

With that, I'm out.

Enjoy your day, boy, girls, TGs, intersexed and all others.
 
2012-03-24 03:03:38 PM  

JeffreyScott: As I read the comments I see a lot of transgendered supporters bash those who refuse to accept the position that a transgendered actually becomes the other sex after they have a sex change. I think that is an unfair position.

A post op transgendered person is exactly that. They are someone who has made a decision to have their physical body altered to give the appearance of the opposite sex. Their genetic material remains the same. Their chromosomes remain unchanged.

Genetically, they are no more the opposite sex simply because they had a major operation than a redhead that colors her hair blond actually becomes a blond, or a brown eyed person who wears blue contacts becomes blue eyed.

The insistence by some that a post op transgendered person magically becomes the opposite sex is troubling.

Why can't the status of post op transgendered be embraced as a positive thing, instead of claiming they are a "real" girl or boy? Why do we have to push them into one of two existing boxes instead of recognizing that there are many boxes that have equal value? Finally, it would seem that if more post op transgendered persons would embrace their status that it would make it easier for those who are experiencing troubles with their sexuality and physical form to make the decision to have a sex change.


If ones gender identity was as simple as what chromosomes they have, then you're argument might be valid. But we all know how society influences how we act and are percieved as a member of our gender (as a straight woman I am constantly being told I am not feminine/"a real woman" because I prefer SciFi and hiking to RomComs and shopping), how we are raised heavily affects how we act as a member of our gender.

What the anti-transgender crowd seems to have a problem with is personal psycology governing how we identify as a gender.

And wouldn't personal psycology have *more* to say about one's gender identity than anything else? As part of who we idetify as come from our heads, not our genes or who society says we should be? These are people that most of whom knew from childhood that they belonged to the opposite gender, shouldn't that count for more than a pack of DNA?

You know who else felt people should date based on DNA....

And again, if you fall back on the ability to have children as the criteria for a "real woman," then you excluded all premenstral, post menopausal, and otherwise sterile ciswomen from belonging to that gender as well.
 
2012-03-24 03:05:59 PM  
Farkers are mad at attractive tranny.

They find her hot and they get upset.
 
2012-03-24 03:06:59 PM  

FarkinHostile: With that, I'm out.


That's a shame. I was hoping you'd answer my question.
 
2012-03-24 03:09:05 PM  

I am waiter hear me roar: hubiestubert: Is her girlfriend a sad individual because she felt she'd been lied to? About who she thought she was with, and then found out, that wasn't so? It's not about being sad, it's about feeling like you weren't trusted enough. That's the deal breaker. Not enough trust. Not the equipment involved, but the trust.

Her girlfriend (the dumper) is a sad individual because she cares more about her partner's orientation and her past than about who her partner is today. If she asked "have you ever dated guys?" and was lied to, I could see being angry. But to assume that just because she cares that much about her partner's "lesbian purity" or whatever that it's OK to expect her partner to read her mind, and actively disclose that specific information? That's the dumper's issue, not the dumpee's.


This. Honestly, to me it sounds like the dumper in this instance may have had a little "Chasing Amy" moment and got insecure, but blamed it on being "lied to."
 
2012-03-24 03:13:31 PM  

I am waiter hear me roar: hubiestubert: You're keeping stuff from a partner IS the issue. Not the gender, but the trust.

It's your partner's job to be honest with you . It's your job to communicate your expectations regarding that honesty. If you discover something world-shaking about your partner far enough into your relationship for it to matter, isn't it at least partly your own fault for not being honest and up front about what's important to you? Don't assume that just because someone doesn't volunteer something, that they're intentionally hiding it. Don't assume that everything that matters to you, matters to everyone else.


Oddly enough, I tend towards towards gals with a clear minimum of games and bullsh*t.

I tend to think that honesty is a better path than keeping secrets or holding back. Again: it's not about the gender, it's not about the history: it's about trust.

Being told flat out that you couldn't be trusted in a relationship IS a deal breaker for most folks. That's the issue. Not a fairy tale of "if you truly loved this person would their being born a boy mattered?"

The issue is more that the partner didn't trust the person they're with to make that call. That is the betrayal. That is the deeper issue. Gloss it over, but if someone will keep a secret about something as basic as to whether they were born a boy or a girl, then that colors a lot of other trust issues.
 
2012-03-24 03:15:52 PM  

Your Average Witty Fark User: Sure, why nit?


Sure, why not.

Just found my "o" key, now it almost makes sense.
 
2012-03-24 03:17:42 PM  

hubiestubert: I am waiter hear me roar: hubiestubert: You're keeping stuff from a partner IS the issue. Not the gender, but the trust.

It's your partner's job to be honest with you . It's your job to communicate your expectations regarding that honesty. If you discover something world-shaking about your partner far enough into your relationship for it to matter, isn't it at least partly your own fault for not being honest and up front about what's important to you? Don't assume that just because someone doesn't volunteer something, that they're intentionally hiding it. Don't assume that everything that matters to you, matters to everyone else.

Oddly enough, I tend towards towards gals with a clear minimum of games and bullsh*t.

I tend to think that honesty is a better path than keeping secrets or holding back. Again: it's not about the gender, it's not about the history: it's about trust.

Being told flat out that you couldn't be trusted in a relationship IS a deal breaker for most folks. That's the issue. Not a fairy tale of "if you truly loved this person would their being born a boy mattered?"

The issue is more that the partner didn't trust the person they're with to make that call. That is the betrayal. That is the deeper issue. Gloss it over, but if someone will keep a secret about something as basic as to whether they were born a boy or a girl, then that colors a lot of other trust issues.


So you instantly tell everyone you meet your deepest and darkest secrets?

You betrayer!
 
2012-03-24 03:21:23 PM  

KiplingKat872: So you instantly tell everyone you meet your deepest and darkest secrets?

You betrayer!


It's kind of like, if you're a sex offender you have to tell everyone.

If you're going to engage someone in sexual activities, you should tell them you actually have an inside-out weener.
 
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