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(Some Guy)   Think a pack of Skittles looks like a gun? If you're holding a gun, probably   (newsinfo.nd.edu) divider line 1323
    More: Interesting, University of Notre Dame, Journal of Experimental Psychology  
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22824 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:17 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-23 02:51:03 AM

9beers: dlp211: ChuDogg: After pin pointing precisly where the shooting occurred (and I'm growing more convinced this is 99% accurate), it becomes apparent that Zimmerman is coming to the realization that Martin is actually right there with him. That's why he's afraid Martin is going to over hear his conversation. Martin probably heard Zimmerman on the phone with 911. So it's not that he put the phone down and barrel charged down the apartment corridor looking for Martin. But Martin was literally within a few feet from him at this point.

Hey, you know what's a really good idea if you think he is right near you. Stay on the phone with 911. Clearly he hasn't attacked you yet, why change the circumstances.

Also, how is that conjecture, we have the girlfriend on the phone that overheard the start of the altercation. Do you really believe her testimony will NOT be included in the trial?

If there is a trial, her testimony will be ripped to shreds based on her obvious bias. Besides, she claims that Martin is heard saying "why are you following me". How is that proof that Zimmerman started it? She also claims that she told Martin to run. Martin said no. That doesn't sound like somebody scared to me.

Nite


No he said that he wouldn't run but he said he would walk fast, then she said he said he was running, then she said he said he stopped because he lost him, then that is when she said they had words and the phone went dead.

That is proof that he was in fear of Zimmerman and was trying to get away from him but Zimmerman hunted him down.

But you LIARS will try to twist things however you can to have it fit your narrative,

Good Night LIAR
 
2012-03-23 02:51:23 AM

Crafty Bernardo: And the fact that Travon happened to be a football player doesn't make him superhuman.. I'm a grown man who comes up well short of Zimmerman when it comes to sheer size and I'm not afraid of a 140 lb high-school junior that happens to be on the high school football team. I sure as heck am not going to be pulling a gun on a 140 lb high-school junior in a fight, even if I am getting a bloody nose at some point.


Like I said, Zimmerman was a pussy with a gun. The gun gave him a check that he could take actions that his ass couldn't cash.

/I just realized this, but the SYG law, if allowed to be applied in this case is more liberal then the current ROE for soldiers in Afghanistan.
 
2012-03-23 02:51:45 AM

eraser8: 9beers: If there is a trial, her testimony will be ripped to shreds based on her obvious bias.

How is her testimony any more biased than Zimmerman's?

That is, you seem to accept Zimmerman's account uncritically. Why is the girlfriend's account any more unreliable?


I'm gonna punch you.
 
2012-03-23 02:51:58 AM

Mrtraveler01: muck4doo: Mrtraveler01: Hate to bring it up but let me ask this:

If the roles were reversed and it was Treyvon and he shot Zimmerman, would folks like 9Beers rush to defend Treyvon using the "self-defense" argument like they are with Zimmerman?

If not then that answers everything then...

Person in a neighborhood not his own, and shooting someone? Yeah, that would ring all kinds of bells. We wouldn't be having this discussion.

I thought he did live in that neighborhood.

Which would make the resulting confrontation (if Martin won) awkward...


dlp211: muck4doo: Mrtraveler01: Hate to bring it up but let me ask this:

If the roles were reversed and it was Treyvon and he shot Zimmerman, would folks like 9Beers rush to defend Treyvon using the "self-defense" argument like they are with Zimmerman?

If not then that answers everything then...

Person in a neighborhood not his own, and shooting someone? Yeah, that would ring all kinds of bells. We wouldn't be having this discussion.

Oh you actually believe that whether or not you are a long term resident matters to whether or not you are in your neighborhood. He was 70-100 yards from his place.


I was given a fictional scenario of the roles reversed, and answered in kind. Don't go trying to dig more out of it than that. Zimmerman belongs in jail. If this kid had went into the neighborhood under the fictional crap I was given, he would be too. Sorry, look for a biatch somewhere else. Or go to bed and figure you don't always have to be fighting with someone to make yourself happy.
 
2012-03-23 02:52:06 AM

dlp211: ChuDogg: Martin was a 6'3 football player with strength and endurance orders of magnitude over Zimmerman. And Zimmerman had a head injury, we still don't know how he got that.

Martin was a 6'3", 150 pound, high school football player.

He wasn't a trained fighter and I have no doubt that he could have the upper hand initially in a fight. Zimmerman, outweighing him significantly, even if he was a lard ass still could have easily removed Martin from being on top of him.


6'3", 150 lb, football player... that's basically Snoop Dogg's stats... not very intimidating... Not if you're a 220 lb full-grown man.
 
2012-03-23 02:52:28 AM
Good night thread.

Really.
 
2012-03-23 02:53:01 AM

9beers: eraser8: ChuDogg: There's pretty conclusive evidence that Zimmerman was on the ground for atleast a minute screaming for help.

How do you figure the evidence is "pretty conclusive"?

I'm not saying the eyewitness is right or wrong, I'm just interested in the basis you used to determine the claim was "pretty conclusive."

Well its what the non mob people like to refer to as "evidence". But as a member of the mob, you wouldn't be interested in that.


Bye
 
2012-03-23 02:53:08 AM
I wasn't there and I'm a firm believer in innocent until proven guilty so I'm not going to pass judgement on this man. That being said, I think there's more than enough doubt here to warrant a trial.

/My $.02
 
2012-03-23 02:53:50 AM

9beers: Good night thread.

Really.


Bye
 
2012-03-23 02:54:07 AM

9beers: Well its what the non mob people like to refer to as "evidence". But as a member of the mob, you wouldn't be interested in that.


I'm not making any claims about what happened or didn't. I'm just asking questions.

But, since you inserted yourself my question to ChuDogg, I have to ask: How do you figure the evidence is "pretty conclusive"?

The claims of one eyewitness aren't usually considered "pretty conclusive." Useful? Sure. Pretty conclusive? Not ordinarily.

And, while you're answering questions, answer the ones I asked earlier...such as, "why didn't I get any answer to a question posed at 7:15:09 PM until several hours later....AFTER I called you out for lying?

Keep in mind that you made an affirmative statement that you hadn't ignored any questions put to you.
 
2012-03-23 02:55:11 AM

eraser8: I'm not saying the eyewitness is right or wrong, I'm just interested in the basis you used to determine the claim was "pretty conclusive."


I made a very long post on this matter and you've probably already read it.
 
2012-03-23 02:55:44 AM

9beers: eraser8: 9beers: If there is a trial, her testimony will be ripped to shreds based on her obvious bias.

How is her testimony any more biased than Zimmerman's?

That is, you seem to accept Zimmerman's account uncritically. Why is the girlfriend's account any more unreliable?

I'm gonna punch you.


How do you figure that's an answer to my question?
 
2012-03-23 02:55:49 AM

sprawl15: balisane: Holy mother of god; this thread became the world's angriest game of Clue while I was napping.

THIS POST HAS BEEN TIMESTAMPED


I CAN NEVER ESCAPE THE TRUTH AGAIN

IT WAS COLONEL MUSTARD IN THE LIBRARY WITH THE CANDLESTICK
 
2012-03-23 02:55:53 AM
Okay picture this:
. .
We take up a collection and send Dino M. Zaffina on an all-expenses-paid vacation to beautiful, sunny, Sanford, Florida.

Meanwhile some Florida farkers can hunt down Zimmerman and tell him they've found a really good legal guy who can help him get through all this.

While they're chatting - be sure and mention how it's even MORE CRUCIAL now than ever - that he carries a gun at all times - what with all those crazy, angry people out there knowing what he looks like.

Then wait till Dino is walking at night - enjoying picturesque Sanford - perhaps on his way to a bar with a reputation for great dart games. . .

Then quickly haul Zimmerman over there, point out Dino in the distance and excitedly tell Zimmerman,

"Look! There he is! There he is! That's him!"

"Now he's kinda hard of hearing. So while you're running after him - yell his name over and over - REALLY LOUDLY - till he hears you.

Oh, and he's a bit eccentric about his name so get it right! It's Dino pronounced "die - no" Zaffino (rhymes with die-no)!"

Okay, off you go.
 
2012-03-23 02:56:23 AM

ChuDogg: I know some people don't believe in self defense. That's OK. That's your opinion. But that's not the law in any U.S. state that I'm aware of. The strictest U.S. states say "risk of serious injury or death", and "must show an Attempt to flee". Both facets can be shown here for Zimmerman. But neither would be shown for Martin (unless some information that isn't available to us).


Excuse me? You're claiming that Zimmeran was the one with a risk of serious injury or death, but that Martin wasn't? And you're saying that Zimmerman was the one that attempted to flee, but Martin didn't?

The 911 call that Zimmerman made, he says that Martin see's him and is running, and he says that he's following. He's also the only one that's armed. That directly contradicts what you're claiming.
 
2012-03-23 03:00:21 AM

dlp211: Crafty Bernardo: And the fact that Travon happened to be a football player doesn't make him superhuman.. I'm a grown man who comes up well short of Zimmerman when it comes to sheer size and I'm not afraid of a 140 lb high-school junior that happens to be on the high school football team. I sure as heck am not going to be pulling a gun on a 140 lb high-school junior in a fight, even if I am getting a bloody nose at some point.

Like I said, Zimmerman was a pussy with a gun. The gun gave him a check that he could take actions that his ass couldn't cash.

/I just realized this, but the SYG law, if allowed to be applied in this case is more liberal then the current ROE for soldiers in Afghanistan.


I know... it's like, let's follow this to it's logical end...

There's this damn middle-schooler that rides his bike on my grass on the way home from school every day. He's probably 5' 4, buck-ten.

I'm 35. 5'10. 160 lb.

That's within the "Zimmmerman spread", right?

Sweeeeet... I'ma go dust off the .44, follow that kid for a few blocks tomorrow until I've got him cornered, and when he finally motions menacingly towards me... BLAM!!!!!

No more skid marks in Crafty's lawn... All my lawyer's gotta do is cite the Zimmerman exemption.

Sheeet... what am I talking about. I'm not gonna need a lawyer. The cops will just give me a ride home and tell me to have a nice day!

Sweeeeeeeeeeet...


Zimmerman is Jack Palance in the movie Shane... throwing the gun at the sheepherder's feet, and saying "go ahead... pick it up"... Sheepherder says "I don't want to pick it up".. Jack Palance says "I said pick it up!!!" Sheepherder, scared out of his wits, picks up the gun gingerly.... BLAM!!!! Jack Palance shoots him dead.

Jack Palance: "You all saw it.. He had a GUN!!"
 
2012-03-23 03:00:24 AM

muck4doo: Mrtraveler01: muck4doo: Mrtraveler01: Hate to bring it up but let me ask this:

If the roles were reversed and it was Treyvon and he shot Zimmerman, would folks like 9Beers rush to defend Treyvon using the "self-defense" argument like they are with Zimmerman?

If not then that answers everything then...

Person in a neighborhood not his own, and shooting someone? Yeah, that would ring all kinds of bells. We wouldn't be having this discussion.

I thought he did live in that neighborhood.

Which would make the resulting confrontation (if Martin won) awkward...

dlp211: muck4doo: Mrtraveler01: Hate to bring it up but let me ask this:

If the roles were reversed and it was Treyvon and he shot Zimmerman, would folks like 9Beers rush to defend Treyvon using the "self-defense" argument like they are with Zimmerman?

If not then that answers everything then...

Person in a neighborhood not his own, and shooting someone? Yeah, that would ring all kinds of bells. We wouldn't be having this discussion.

Oh you actually believe that whether or not you are a long term resident matters to whether or not you are in your neighborhood. He was 70-100 yards from his place.

I was given a fictional scenario of the roles reversed, and answered in kind. Don't go trying to dig more out of it than that. Zimmerman belongs in jail. If this kid had went into the neighborhood under the fictional crap I was given, he would be too. Sorry, look for a biatch somewhere else. Or go to bed and figure you don't always have to be fighting with someone to make yourself happy.


No I agree with you. He definitely would not be given the benefit of the doubt like Zimmerman has gotten so far and it would be painted as "scary black man guns down innocent white guy in gated community".

That's why I was saying that it would be awkward when it came out that he did live in that community and was just walking home.
 
2012-03-23 03:00:40 AM

ChuDogg: eraser8: I'm not saying the eyewitness is right or wrong, I'm just interested in the basis you used to determine the claim was "pretty conclusive."

I made a very long post on this matter and you've probably already read it.


The question I'm asking is how you got from the facts of the case to a judgment that the witness's view was "pretty conclusive." When I use the phrase "pretty conclusive," I mean being close to accurately describing what actually happened.

It seems to me that if the issues were "pretty conclusive" this story wouldn't be news.

Help me out, here. As I asked another Farker, spell it out for me.
 
2012-03-23 03:01:17 AM
Mrtraveler01,
dlp211

Settled? Good.
 
2012-03-23 03:02:28 AM

Crafty Bernardo: dlp211: Crafty Bernardo: And the fact that Travon happened to be a football player doesn't make him superhuman.. I'm a grown man who comes up well short of Zimmerman when it comes to sheer size and I'm not afraid of a 140 lb high-school junior that happens to be on the high school football team. I sure as heck am not going to be pulling a gun on a 140 lb high-school junior in a fight, even if I am getting a bloody nose at some point.

Like I said, Zimmerman was a pussy with a gun. The gun gave him a check that he could take actions that his ass couldn't cash.

/I just realized this, but the SYG law, if allowed to be applied in this case is more liberal then the current ROE for soldiers in Afghanistan.

I know... it's like, let's follow this to it's logical end...

There's this damn middle-schooler that rides his bike on my grass on the way home from school every day. He's probably 5' 4, buck-ten.

I'm 35. 5'10. 160 lb.

That's within the "Zimmmerman spread", right?

Sweeeeet... I'ma go dust off the .44, follow that kid for a few blocks tomorrow until I've got him cornered, and when he finally motions menacingly towards me... BLAM!!!!!

No more skid marks in Crafty's lawn... All my lawyer's gotta do is cite the Zimmerman exemption.

Sheeet... what am I talking about. I'm not gonna need a lawyer. The cops will just give me a ride home and tell me to have a nice day!

Sweeeeeeeeeeet...


Zimmerman is Jack Palance in the movie Shane... throwing the gun at the sheepherder's feet, and saying "go ahead... pick it up"... Sheepherder says "I don't want to pick it up".. Jack Palance says "I said pick it up!!!" Sheepherder, scared out of his wits, picks up the gun gingerly.... BLAM!!!! Jack Palance shoots him dead.

Jack Palance: "You all saw it.. He had a GUN!!"


By the way... full disclosure... I plagiarized that Jack Palance quote from that comedian that hated Ronald Reagan and died of a cocaine overdose like 20 years ago.
 
2012-03-23 03:03:19 AM

muck4doo: Mrtraveler01,
dlp211

Settled? Good.


Yep, we're on the same page...for now. :)

/until the next politics tab story of course
 
2012-03-23 03:03:28 AM

JuggleGeek: ChuDogg: I know some people don't believe in self defense. That's OK. That's your opinion. But that's not the law in any U.S. state that I'm aware of. The strictest U.S. states say "risk of serious injury or death", and "must show an Attempt to flee". Both facets can be shown here for Zimmerman. But neither would be shown for Martin (unless some information that isn't available to us).

Excuse me? You're claiming that Zimmeran was the one with a risk of serious injury or death, but that Martin wasn't? And you're saying that Zimmerman was the one that attempted to flee, but Martin didn't?

The 911 call that Zimmerman made, he says that Martin see's him and is running, and he says that he's following. He's also the only one that's armed. That directly contradicts what you're claiming.


This is what the whole case is going to rest on. Once Martin ran, his actions indicate that he was attempting to flee, Martin continued his pursuit and decided to keep looking for him. Based on ChuDogg's map of the crime scene, which I agree is fairly accurate, I would say that if Z actually had the intent of returning to his vehicle, he could have made it their in the time he was on the phone with 911.

The question is going to be does Zimmerman have the right to continue to search for the suspect?

Also, getting punched in the face is not deadly force unless it is Mike Tyson doing the punching. But florida is just farked up.
 
2012-03-23 03:04:47 AM

JuggleGeek: Excuse me? You're claiming that Zimmeran was the one with a risk of serious injury or death, but that Martin wasn't? And you're saying that Zimmerman was the one that attempted to flee, but Martin didn't?

The 911 call that Zimmerman made, he says that Martin see's him and is running, and he says that he's following. He's also the only one that's armed. That directly contradicts what you're claiming.


The police have already said that Zimmerman had the right to follow Martin. Believe it or not, you can follow and observe somebody you believe is breaking the law.

When it comes to the altercation, we don't know anything about how zimmerman may have threatened or attacked Martin.

While Martin was on top of Zimmerman for atleast a minute punching him while he screamed for help. Under those conditions, he 1) risked seriously injury or death and 2) Could not attempt to flee.

None of these conditions applied to Martin. At any point during the full minute that he was on top of Zimmerman punching him he was 1)Not under a risk of injury or death and 2) He could have fled the scene.
 
2012-03-23 03:05:40 AM

Mrtraveler01: muck4doo: Mrtraveler01,
dlp211

Settled? Good.

Yep, we're on the same page...for now. :)

/until the next politics tab story of course


Yep
 
2012-03-23 03:06:23 AM

dlp211: JuggleGeek: ChuDogg: I know some people don't believe in self defense. That's OK. That's your opinion. But that's not the law in any U.S. state that I'm aware of. The strictest U.S. states say "risk of serious injury or death", and "must show an Attempt to flee". Both facets can be shown here for Zimmerman. But neither would be shown for Martin (unless some information that isn't available to us).

Excuse me? You're claiming that Zimmeran was the one with a risk of serious injury or death, but that Martin wasn't? And you're saying that Zimmerman was the one that attempted to flee, but Martin didn't?

The 911 call that Zimmerman made, he says that Martin see's him and is running, and he says that he's following. He's also the only one that's armed. That directly contradicts what you're claiming.

This is what the whole case is going to rest on. Once Martin ran, his actions indicate that he was attempting to flee, Martin continued his pursuit and decided to keep looking for him. Based on ChuDogg's map of the crime scene, which I agree is fairly accurate, I would say that if Z actually had the intent of returning to his vehicle, he could have made it their in the time he was on the phone with 911.

The question is going to be does Zimmerman have the right to continue to search for the suspect?

Also, getting punched in the face is not deadly force unless it is Mike Tyson doing the punching. But florida is just farked up.


As one Farker put it (wish I could remember who and I think I'm paraphrasing):

"Beautiful state, crazy people"
 
2012-03-23 03:06:28 AM
9beers, am I correct in assuming you think this should be left to the police to investigate and analyze the evidence?

If that's the case, then why were you so eager to point out yesterday that a media outlet hired a third party to analyze the audio tape and concluded that Zimmerman didn't use a racial epithet? Shouldn't the authorities make that determination?

(I expect to be called a moron for this post)
 
2012-03-23 03:06:36 AM

ChuDogg: dlp211: Also, how is that conjecture, we have the girlfriend on the phone that overheard the start of the altercation. Do you really believe her testimony will NOT be included in the trial?

Her testimony only states she heard "What are you doing here?". Even if this well prepared statement is 100% factually correct, that does not show that Zimmerman initiated the conflict by any means. Martin could have hung up the phone at that point and capped him.

Who knows, maybe his statement to the police (WHICH WE STILL DON"T HAVE), even mentions that he saw him and said "What are you doing here?" before this much taller and stronger individual brought him to the ground without any resistance.

I'm just going by what the facts we have at hand. We have no way of knowing how the physical altercation started. Though at least now I'm pretty sure how it began and how it ended.


No her statement attest to the fact that Trayvon was worried about the guy who was following him. and decided to take measures to allude the guy that was following him. That shows that Trayvon had a reasonable expectation that his life was in danger. Zimmerman's 911 call even supports this by the fact that he said that Trayvon ran away from him.

Now those are facts, unless you are now trying to say that Zimmerman lied when he said that Trayvon ran away from him. Or are you going to claim that once Trayvon ran away from him, Zimmerman didn't chase him, he just some how ended up shooting Trayvon in a courtyard yard away from his car. Or are you going to say that even if Zimmerman was chasing him, Trayvon had no right to defend himself? Which one are you going to claim?

Or are you going to go 9beers route and claim you never said that Trayvon was a thug who attacked Zimmerman and you were just saying we shouldn't judge Zimmerman before all of the evidence is in?

So what is it going to be? are you just going to be either an idiot, racist or troll or are you going for the whole 9 yards and have liar thrown on top of it.
 
2012-03-23 03:07:52 AM

ImpendingCynic: 9beers, am I correct in assuming you think this should be left to the police to investigate and analyze the evidence?

If that's the case, then why were you so eager to point out yesterday that a media outlet hired a third party to analyze the audio tape and concluded that Zimmerman didn't use a racial epithet? Shouldn't the authorities make that determination?

(I expect to be called a moron for this post)


Let me save him the time:

You're such a moron for ever question anything Zimmerman said/did.

/There 9Beers, I saved you some time and bandwidth :P
 
2012-03-23 03:08:15 AM

ChuDogg: JuggleGeek: Excuse me? You're claiming that Zimmeran was the one with a risk of serious injury or death, but that Martin wasn't? And you're saying that Zimmerman was the one that attempted to flee, but Martin didn't?

The 911 call that Zimmerman made, he says that Martin see's him and is running, and he says that he's following. He's also the only one that's armed. That directly contradicts what you're claiming.

The police have already said that Zimmerman had the right to follow Martin. Believe it or not, you can follow and observe somebody you believe is breaking the law.

When it comes to the altercation, we don't know anything about how zimmerman may have threatened or attacked Martin.

While Martin was on top of Zimmerman for atleast a minute punching him while he screamed for help. Under those conditions, he 1) risked seriously injury or death and 2) Could not attempt to flee.

None of these conditions applied to Martin. At any point during the full minute that he was on top of Zimmerman punching him he was 1)Not under a risk of injury or death and 2) He could have fled the scene.


I'm sorry Chudogg.. your Boobies was great... it's been downhill from there.
 
2012-03-23 03:10:22 AM
i170.photobucket.com
 
2012-03-23 03:10:37 AM

Mrtraveler01: muck4doo: Mrtraveler01: muck4doo: Mrtraveler01: Hate to bring it up but let me ask this:

If the roles were reversed and it was Treyvon and he shot Zimmerman, would folks like 9Beers rush to defend Treyvon using the "self-defense" argument like they are with Zimmerman?

If not then that answers everything then...

Person in a neighborhood not his own, and shooting someone? Yeah, that would ring all kinds of bells. We wouldn't be having this discussion.

I thought he did live in that neighborhood.

Which would make the resulting confrontation (if Martin won) awkward...

dlp211: muck4doo: Mrtraveler01: Hate to bring it up but let me ask this:

If the roles were reversed and it was Treyvon and he shot Zimmerman, would folks like 9Beers rush to defend Treyvon using the "self-defense" argument like they are with Zimmerman?

If not then that answers everything then...

Person in a neighborhood not his own, and shooting someone? Yeah, that would ring all kinds of bells. We wouldn't be having this discussion.

Oh you actually believe that whether or not you are a long term resident matters to whether or not you are in your neighborhood. He was 70-100 yards from his place.

I was given a fictional scenario of the roles reversed, and answered in kind. Don't go trying to dig more out of it than that. Zimmerman belongs in jail. If this kid had went into the neighborhood under the fictional crap I was given, he would be too. Sorry, look for a biatch somewhere else. Or go to bed and figure you don't always have to be fighting with someone to make yourself happy.

No I agree with you. He definitely would not be given the benefit of the doubt like Zimmerman has gotten so far and it would be painted as "scary black man guns down innocent white guy in gated community".

That's why I was saying that it would be awkward when it came out that he did live in that community and was just walking home.


dlp211: Mrtraveler01: muck4doo: Mrtraveler01,
dlp211

Settled? Good.

Yep, we're on the same page...for now. :)

/until the next politics tab story of course

Yep


Trying to avoid those for now. This NFL off-season has been interesting. I'll be back there sooner or later though. Ya know it. :)

/If Santorum gets nominated might be a long time though
 
2012-03-23 03:11:28 AM

ChuDogg: JuggleGeek: Excuse me? You're claiming that Zimmeran was the one with a risk of serious injury or death, but that Martin wasn't? And you're saying that Zimmerman was the one that attempted to flee, but Martin didn't?

The 911 call that Zimmerman made, he says that Martin see's him and is running, and he says that he's following. He's also the only one that's armed. That directly contradicts what you're claiming.

The police have already said that Zimmerman had the right to follow Martin. Believe it or not, you can follow and observe somebody you believe is breaking the law.

I'm just curious as to what law did Z believe Martin to be breaking?

When it comes to the altercation, we don't know anything about how zimmerman may have threatened or attacked Martin.

While we don't have anything conclusive we do still have the girlfriends statement, so there isn't nothing.

While Martin was on top of Zimmerman for atleast a minute punching him while he screamed for help. Under those conditions, he 1) risked seriously injury or death and 2) Could not attempt to flee.

Right, because Martin was Tyson bashing his face in, the guy had a broken nose and a cut on the back of his head, not even close to being dead. It doesn't even seem like he tried, he just curled up like a little pussy and begged for help(assuming it was him getting pummeled) then he remembered he had his gun and he didn't want to get beat up anymore.

None of these conditions applied to Martin. At any point during the full minute that he was on top of Zimmerman punching him he was 1)Not under a risk of injury or death and 2) He could have fled the scene.


Except that whole you can meet threat with non-deadly force bit of the Florida law. He did try to flee the scene, Z pursued him.
 
2012-03-23 03:11:39 AM

9beers: Mrtraveler01: 9beers: dlp211: ChuDogg: After pin pointing precisly where the shooting occurred (and I'm growing more convinced this is 99% accurate), it becomes apparent that Zimmerman is coming to the realization that Martin is actually right there with him. That's why he's afraid Martin is going to over hear his conversation. Martin probably heard Zimmerman on the phone with 911. So it's not that he put the phone down and barrel charged down the apartment corridor looking for Martin. But Martin was literally within a few feet from him at this point.

Hey, you know what's a really good idea if you think he is right near you. Stay on the phone with 911. Clearly he hasn't attacked you yet, why change the circumstances.

Also, how is that conjecture, we have the girlfriend on the phone that overheard the start of the altercation. Do you really believe her testimony will NOT be included in the trial?

If there is a trial, her testimony will be ripped to shreds based on her obvious bias. Besides, she claims that Martin is heard saying "why are you following me". How is that proof that Zimmerman started it? She also claims that she told Martin to run. Martin said no. That doesn't sound like somebody scared to me.

Nite

So because he decided to walk fast instead of run that means he started the fight?

Hey dude, you're just trying to be an idiot now. Both he and I admit that there's no proof of who started the fight. I've told you that at least 4 times in this thread.


I also thought the same thing when you put up this ridiculous nugget "She also claims that she told Martin to run. Martin said no. That doesn't sound like somebody scared to me."

I hope you realize that most people in here (on both sides of this discussion) are being somewhat rational. Then there's you, who's just the outlier meta-troll... and everyone who's pointing out how much you're just being a total d-bag with your willingness to be ridiculously disingenuous with the interpretation of this story.
 
2012-03-23 03:13:57 AM

ongbok: Trayvon was worried about the guy who was following him. and decided to take measures to allude the guy that was following him. That shows that Trayvon had a reasonable expectation that his life was in danger.


Somebody following you does not give you the right to hide in the dark, watch as they walk by you while on the phone with 911, and then attack them, continuing your assault for at least a minute while he is screaming for help.

The proper response is to call the police
 
2012-03-23 03:14:32 AM

Crafty Bernardo: ChuDogg: JuggleGeek: scene.

I'm sorry Chudogg.. your Boobies was great... it's been downhill from there.


OK.. seriously... I did NOT say that!!!!

I meant to say "your Boobies was great... it's been downhill from there."

I must've hot-linked something or control c'd... was that freudian?
 
2012-03-23 03:14:47 AM

muck4doo: This NFL off-season has been interesting.


I checked out the New Orleans news sites about what's going on down there. And it's pretty...um....interesting how they're taking the news.

muck4doo: /If Santorum gets nominated might be a long time though


Oh c'mon now! Even you know that's pretty tempting to check out. ;)

/In a train wreck sort of way
 
2012-03-23 03:15:11 AM

ChuDogg: ongbok: Trayvon was worried about the guy who was following him. and decided to take measures to allude the guy that was following him. That shows that Trayvon had a reasonable expectation that his life was in danger.

Somebody following you does not give you the right to hide in the dark, watch as they walk by you while on the phone with 911, and then attack them, continuing your assault for at least a minute while he is screaming for help.

The proper response is to call the police


Pure conjecture. I mean 100%. There is no proof that that is what happened. Also, the screams for help lasted seconds not a full minute.
 
2012-03-23 03:16:38 AM

ChuDogg: ongbok: Trayvon was worried about the guy who was following him. and decided to take measures to allude the guy that was following him. That shows that Trayvon had a reasonable expectation that his life was in danger.

Somebody following you does not give you the right to hide in the dark, watch as they walk by you while on the phone with 911, and then attack them, continuing your assault for at least a minute while he is screaming for help.

The proper response is to call the police


Depends on who's conducting the attack.

And let's be honest, the police would do jack squat if Treyvon called in to report a creepy white guy following him. Who are we kidding here?
 
2012-03-23 03:17:11 AM

dlp211: ChuDogg: ongbok: Trayvon was worried about the guy who was following him. and decided to take measures to allude the guy that was following him. That shows that Trayvon had a reasonable expectation that his life was in danger.

Somebody following you does not give you the right to hide in the dark, watch as they walk by you while on the phone with 911, and then attack them, continuing your assault for at least a minute while he is screaming for help.

The proper response is to call the police

Pure conjecture. I mean 100%. There is no proof that that is what happened. Also, the screams for help lasted seconds not a full minute.


FTFM
 
2012-03-23 03:17:48 AM

Crafty Bernardo: 9beers: Mrtraveler01: 9beers: dlp211: ChuDogg: After pin pointing precisly where the shooting occurred (and I'm growing more convinced this is 99% accurate), it becomes apparent that Zimmerman is coming to the realization that Martin is actually right there with him. That's why he's afraid Martin is going to over hear his conversation. Martin probably heard Zimmerman on the phone with 911. So it's not that he put the phone down and barrel charged down the apartment corridor looking for Martin. But Martin was literally within a few feet from him at this point.

Hey, you know what's a really good idea if you think he is right near you. Stay on the phone with 911. Clearly he hasn't attacked you yet, why change the circumstances.

Also, how is that conjecture, we have the girlfriend on the phone that overheard the start of the altercation. Do you really believe her testimony will NOT be included in the trial?

If there is a trial, her testimony will be ripped to shreds based on her obvious bias. Besides, she claims that Martin is heard saying "why are you following me". How is that proof that Zimmerman started it? She also claims that she told Martin to run. Martin said no. That doesn't sound like somebody scared to me.

Nite

So because he decided to walk fast instead of run that means he started the fight?

Hey dude, you're just trying to be an idiot now. Both he and I admit that there's no proof of who started the fight. I've told you that at least 4 times in this thread.

I also thought the same thing when you put up this ridiculous nugget "She also claims that she told Martin to run. Martin said no. That doesn't sound like somebody scared to me."

I hope you realize that most people in here (on both sides of this discussion) are being somewhat rational. Then there's you, who's just the outlier meta-troll... and everyone who's pointing out how much you're just being a total d-bag with your willingness to be ridiculously disingenuous with the interpretati ...


He strongly believes those that are given any kind of authority can never make mistakes. The exact opposite is true. That's why I will always be a libertarian.

/Not that anything bad can happen out of that either
//I trust the populace more than the government though.
 
2012-03-23 03:18:38 AM

beta_plus: whatshisname: beta_plus: OK, I'm convinced. As soon as Zimmerman chose to pursue, he gave up all rights to self defense. Trayvon then gained the complete right to straddle him and beat Zimmerman to death. Any resistance by Zimmerman while Trayvon beat him to death was a criminal act.

The kid weighed 80 lbs less than Zimmerman.

The rest of the world, and much of America, is appalled by this crime and astonished by the laws and attitudes that justify this sort of behaviour.

Portrait of a Power Lifter

[www.thegrio.com image 400x301]

/80 lbs flab != 80 lbs of muscle
//unless he sat on him and tried to suffocate him with his fatness


Looks like Chaz Bono.
 
2012-03-23 03:18:55 AM

muck4doo: //I trust the populace more than the government though.


I trust neither. Where does that lead me? :P
 
2012-03-23 03:19:38 AM

dlp211: Right, because Martin was Tyson bashing his face in, the guy had a broken nose and a cut on the back of his head, not even close to being dead. It doesn't even seem like he tried, he just curled up like a little pussy and begged for help(assuming it was him getting pummeled) then he remembered he had his gun and he didn't want to get beat up anymore.


lol. I love when internet tough guys get all "what they would do in a fight". Guess what? Maybe he was a pussy. Maybe he knew he didn't stand a chance in a fight. He still has rights that go beyond "curl up in a ball and hope he doesn't kill you". This isn't Europe afterall. He did the right thing, he took a beating for at least a minute hoping somebody would help him. Unfortunately the homeowner didn't want to go anywhere near him and ran to call the police.

I think I've "clarified" pretty much everything and am now just repeating myself. I'll stick around though if I have any more insights. 4chan is currently hacking his facebook. Apparently Martin was a drug dealer named "Slim" and other interesting tidbits.
 
2012-03-23 03:19:39 AM

ChuDogg: JuggleGeek: Excuse me? You're claiming that Zimmeran was the one with a risk of serious injury or death, but that Martin wasn't? And you're saying that Zimmerman was the one that attempted to flee, but Martin didn't?

The 911 call that Zimmerman made, he says that Martin see's him and is running, and he says that he's following. He's also the only one that's armed. That directly contradicts what you're claiming.

The police have already said that Zimmerman had the right to follow Martin. Believe it or not, you can follow and observe somebody you believe is breaking the law.

When it comes to the altercation, we don't know anything about how zimmerman may have threatened or attacked Martin.

While Martin was on top of Zimmerman for atleast a minute punching him while he screamed for help. Under those conditions, he 1) risked seriously injury or death and 2) Could not attempt to flee.

None of these conditions applied to Martin. At any point during the full minute that he was on top of Zimmerman punching him he was 1)Not under a risk of injury or death and 2) He could have fled the scene.


He tried to flee the scene but the fat guy with a gun who had been following him for blocks chased him and grabbed him then killed him in cold blood after Martin tried to defend himself. This was nothing more than a lynching. People defending Zimmerman are stupid or racist 9beers is both.
 
2012-03-23 03:20:15 AM
I would hope that anybody in here defending Zimmerman, even if they swear up and down that he is in his legal right to do what he did and not even get arrested at all or put on trial, can at least admit what an unbelievably dangerous presedent this sets..

I mean, it pretty much makes it legal to arm yourself with a concealed weapon, follow an unarmed stranger (yes, even a child), provoke a confrontation, kill that person, tell the police all about it, and then saunter home on "Stand your Ground" terms.

Not that anybody sane would want to do that... but that doesn't make it any less dangerous.
 
2012-03-23 03:20:20 AM

Mrtraveler01: muck4doo: //I trust the populace more than the government though.

I trust neither. Where does that lead me? :P


Libertarian. Start looking up and down rather than left and right.
 
2012-03-23 03:20:37 AM
I'm a good redneck. I like guns. I know how to use a gun.

This zimmermann yahoo apparently didn't have the brains to own one, let alone play pretend cop. I hope he fries. Or gets sent to Detroit. Yes, send him to Detroit.
 
2012-03-23 03:20:48 AM

Mrtraveler01: muck4doo: //I trust the populace more than the government though.

I trust neither. Where does that lead me? :P


Government is neither inherently good or bad. The only reason the government is bad is because the populace allows it to be.
 
2012-03-23 03:21:10 AM

ChuDogg: Somebody following you does not give you the right to hide in the dark, watch as they walk by you while on the phone with 911, and then attack them, continuing your assault for at least a minute while he is screaming for help.


What does that scenario have to do with what actually happened?
 
2012-03-23 03:21:28 AM

dlp211: Also, the screams for help lasted seconds not a full minute.


In my post you can follow the link. The call is 45 seconds from start to the gunshot.
 
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