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(Some Guy)   Think a pack of Skittles looks like a gun? If you're holding a gun, probably   (newsinfo.nd.edu) divider line 1323
    More: Interesting, University of Notre Dame, Journal of Experimental Psychology  
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22824 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:17 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-22 10:32:21 PM

9beers: ongbok: I don't give a hell what the eye witness says. From Zimmerman's own words Tryavon was running away, and the only way for Zimmerman to get from where he was to the place where he killed Trayvon was for him to chase him. Trayvon had every right in the world to defend himself from somebody chasing him.

Zimmerman lost sight of Martin and was returning to his vehicle when he was attacked. Can you prove that didn't happen? Remember, we need evidence to charge somebody with a crime.


But not to kill a youth.
 
2012-03-22 10:33:26 PM

9beers: LasersHurt: That's quite the goal post movement! "Prove this case fully, or I am automatically right."

How about proving the case at all? We don't have to prove that Zimmerman didn't commit a crime, we have to prove that he did. Where's that proof?


Somewhere being gathered for trial? I'd guess?

I just don't understand how you can keep badgering on about proof and evidence, then assuming Zimmerman was in the right and is innocent. That seems, you know, hypocritical.
 
2012-03-22 10:33:45 PM

eraser8: Mrtraveler01: Maybe it was just how Wikipedia did it then.

On most government forms that collect race and ethnicity data, there will be a section for race (white, black, asian, native or pacific islander) and a separate box for ethnicity. You can't enter Hispanic as a race because it is not a racial classification. There really are black Hispanics and asian Hispanics.

[a.abcnews.com image 640x360]


Hmm...guess I never noticed that before.
 
2012-03-22 10:34:02 PM

LasersHurt: 9beers: So unless you're willing to believe that less than a minute after Zimmerman was being pummeled by Martin that he was able to get the uppper hand on Martin, stand over his body and pump one into his chest, it's obvious that Zimmerman was on the ground and acting in self defense.

I am 100% willing to believe that a grown man went from "in a fight" to "shooting a guy" in less than a minute. FFS that's TONS of time for an altercation to totally change tempo.


Whats clear is that zimmerman was the aggressor in the whole situation. He has a history of assaulting a police officer and then acted as a de facto "watchman" in his area. Even though he called the police, he had no faith in them to do their job. He said in 911 that the were a number of breakins, but more importantly later said, "these assholes always get away" whch is the "no faith" evidence. He then takes it upon himself to disregard a suggestion to stop trailing the kid ...ya ya it wasnt an order...and takes matters in his own hands. He acted on suspicion and thereby made his target a suspect without any evidence. Whats the worst that could happen? If the history of the previous breakins was some shiat stolen, the probability says that the worst that would happen would be more shiat stolen...or somebody else would have shot martin id he indeed broke into a house. But thats speculation. As it stands, this wannabe jackboot thug fancied himself to be a hero, killed a kid a almost half his age and size and more than likely went home and jerked off to soldier of fortune.
 
2012-03-22 10:34:04 PM

9beers: Zimmerman lost sight of Martin and was returning to his vehicle when he was attacked. Can you prove that didn't happen? Remember, we need evidence to charge somebody with a crime.


What evidence do you have that Zimmerman was returning to his vehicle?

He told the dispatcher to have the police call him so that he can tell them where he was. That doesn't sound like someone going back to their vehicle.
 
2012-03-22 10:35:51 PM

Mrtraveler01: Can you prove that it did?


We don't have to prove innocence, we have to prove guilt. don't even farking try to tell me you don't know that.
 
2012-03-22 10:36:04 PM

dlp211: I tried my google-fu and it failed. You are assuming that the vehicle was parked in front of the complex at which the altercation took place. If Zimmerman was jumped returning to his vehicle how did he wind up in the backyard considering that the he said Martin was headed toward the back entrance, in other words, still on the road.


I think it was taken down.

My impression was that he got out of his truck and was following him when he went around the edge of the complex, around the time he said "farking punks" (or coons if you will), I figure he was pissed because he lost sight of him or Martin ran off. So then he persued him around the house into the backyard around the time when he said "are you following, we don't need you to do that". He gets into the backyard and says "he ran" because he doesn't see him at this point. So he dilly dallys around at this point in the back of the complex where the walking trail is for the rest of the conversation.

So Martin is either hiding on a porch something close by, or Zimmerman kept following him in the back yard.

Just my impression.
 
2012-03-22 10:37:10 PM

LasersHurt: I just don't understand how you can keep badgering on about proof and evidence, then assuming Zimmerman was in the right and is innocent. That seems, you know, hypocritical.


You just made no farking sense and you probably know it.
 
2012-03-22 10:38:04 PM
I WANT THE TRUTH!
 
2012-03-22 10:38:05 PM

9beers: ongbok: I don't give a hell what the eye witness says. From Zimmerman's own words Tryavon was running away, and the only way for Zimmerman to get from where he was to the place where he killed Trayvon was for him to chase him. Trayvon had every right in the world to defend himself from somebody chasing him.

Zimmerman lost sight of Martin and was returning to his vehicle when he was attacked. Can you prove that didn't happen? Remember, we need evidence to charge somebody with a crime.


Unless his vehicle was parked in the courtyard where he shot Trayvon, he chased him. Otherwise how did he get from his car to the courtyard? And from Trayvon's girlfriends statement Trayvon said that he thought he lost him, then they had words, then the phone went dead. Every thing points to the fact that after he told the 911 operator that Trayvon was running away he chased him, caught up to him and confronted him. That right there gives Trayvon the right to defend himself. What proof do you have that Zimmerman wasn't chasing Trayvon?
 
2012-03-22 10:38:28 PM
Martin was found facedown. We need an autopsy to explain entry and exit of the bullet trajectory.
Combine that with figuring out who was actually yelling for help.
The local PD never secured the scene for blood spatter.
the eye witness accounts are never reliable.

We really don't know what the eff happened.

So everybody just calm down and STFU.

Good farkin grief people.
 
2012-03-22 10:40:01 PM

dlp211: What evidence do you have that Zimmerman was returning to his vehicle?

He told the dispatcher to have the police call him so that he can tell them where he was. That doesn't sound like someone going back to their vehicle.



It sounds like somebody that was unsure of where they would be when the police arrived. Had he known where Martin was, he would have continued following him, since he lost site of him, he was walking back to his vehicle.

You need to stop making such a big deal of where he was and whether or not he was returning to his vehicle since it's irreverent to what happened.
 
2012-03-22 10:40:57 PM

ongbok: Unless his vehicle was parked in the courtyard where he shot Trayvon, he chased him.


Hey look, retard logic.
 
2012-03-22 10:41:32 PM
OK, I'm convinced. As soon as Zimmerman chose to pursue, he gave up all rights to self defense. Trayvon then gained the complete right to straddle him and beat Zimmerman to death. Any resistance by Zimmerman while Trayvon beat him to death was a criminal act.
 
2012-03-22 10:42:23 PM
I found it: Link (new window)

Notice one car driveways, etc. It wouldn't take long to move around back. It's not like clearing huge swaths of land.
 
2012-03-22 10:42:25 PM

jso2897: HAMMERTOE: Tbh, if a 15 y/o black guy is sitting on top of you, pummeling you, you might not even look for a gun. Notice how all the pictures they publish of Treyvon are from when he was 12... My son is 15, and every bit as tall and big as I am.

No, actually, even if I had been so foolish as to chase someone down and assault them, and then found myself getting my ass kicked by my victim, I would not double down on my foolish criminality by pulling out a gun and shooting him. Speak for yourself.

It's fun to read from the book of "If"!


Why would anyone chase somebody in a country with conceal and carry laws?
 
2012-03-22 10:42:33 PM
eraser8

On most government forms that collect race and ethnicity data, there will be a section for race (white, black, asian, native or pacific islander) and a separate box for ethnicity. You can't enter Hispanic as a race because it is not a racial classification.

On the 2010 census form, you could enter "Hispanic" or "Mexican" (or whatever) for race and be tallied under the "some other race" category.

The majority of such respondents are, like Zimmermann, mestizos.
 
2012-03-22 10:42:36 PM
OK, time out. I have noting left to drink but some Bacardi and a thing of orange juice. Can you mix those?
 
2012-03-22 10:44:13 PM

Mrtraveler01: eraser8: Mrtraveler01: Maybe it was just how Wikipedia did it then.

On most government forms that collect race and ethnicity data, there will be a section for race (white, black, asian, native or pacific islander) and a separate box for ethnicity. You can't enter Hispanic as a race because it is not a racial classification. There really are black Hispanics and asian Hispanics.

[a.abcnews.com image 640x360]

Hmm...guess I never noticed that before.


Here's a better photo:

i.cdn.turner.com

The reason you're asked to answer BOTH questions? Simple: Hispanic doesn't describe race. At all. Anytime you hear somebody claim that Hispanics are always counted as white in, for example, crime statistics, you can safely disregard them. They're lying.
 
2012-03-22 10:44:57 PM

9beers: ongbok: Unless his vehicle was parked in the courtyard where he shot Trayvon, he chased him.

Hey look, retard logic.


No you are the retard that is trying to defend someone who chased down a kid that had a can of ice tea and a bag of Skittles and shot him then tried to claim self defense. Logic states that he got out of his car, chased him, and when he defended himself Zimmerman shot him.
 
2012-03-22 10:45:32 PM

9beers: dlp211: What evidence do you have that Zimmerman was returning to his vehicle?

He told the dispatcher to have the police call him so that he can tell them where he was. That doesn't sound like someone going back to their vehicle.


It sounds like somebody that was unsure of where they would be when the police arrived. Had he known where Martin was, he would have continued following him, since he lost site of him, he was walking back to his vehicle.

You need to stop making such a big deal of where he was and whether or not he was returning to his vehicle since it's irreverent to what happened.


No it is very relevant to what happened. He was less then a minute away from his vehicle. His vehicle is a great landmark to rendezvous with the police.

You also don't even bother with the girlfriend's statement, which would completely blow away Zimmerman's self defense claim.

I wonder if the police asked Zimmerman what actions he took to remove himself from the situation or defend himself in a non lethal way.

You know how he could of stopped taking a beating? Hugging Martin until police, who were on their way arrived.
 
2012-03-22 10:45:33 PM

Mrtraveler01: Amos Quito: beta_plus: Not victims of a hate crime

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x394] (new window)

Move along citizen

/only white people can be racist
//except when the perp is hispanic - he can be racist too


If Zimmy is convicted, FBI stats will show that a "white" man murdered a black man.

/FBI stats don't count Hispanics as such
//Except in "hate crimes"
///And then only as victims, not as perps

The US Census count Hispanics as Whites at first. And then they split it between "Non-Hispanic Whites" like me, and "Hispanics".

I learned that when looking at the demographics of some cities near Miami when I was bored one day. Pretty interesting stuff.



Also interesting is that the Bureau of Prisons and the Bureau of Justice Statistics DO note the "Hispaniciy" of those in their "care".

And when Blacks and "Hispanic Whites" are subtracted from the total perp population, the US is a surprisingly civil society.

baneofyourresistance.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-03-22 10:45:41 PM

ChuDogg: I found it: Link (new window)

Notice one car driveways, etc. It wouldn't take long to move around back. It's not like clearing huge swaths of land.


Shame, it looks like a nice community too.

Too bad it'll just be know as "the one where the black kid got murdered in".
 
2012-03-22 10:46:01 PM

ongbok: 9beers: ongbok: I don't give a hell what the eye witness says. From Zimmerman's own words Tryavon was running away, and the only way for Zimmerman to get from where he was to the place where he killed Trayvon was for him to chase him. Trayvon had every right in the world to defend himself from somebody chasing him.

Zimmerman lost sight of Martin and was returning to his vehicle when he was attacked. Can you prove that didn't happen? Remember, we need evidence to charge somebody with a crime.

Unless his vehicle was parked in the courtyard where he shot Trayvon, he chased him. Otherwise how did he get from his car to the courtyard? And from Trayvon's girlfriends statement Trayvon said that he thought he lost him, then they had words, then the phone went dead. Every thing points to the fact that after he told
the 911 operator that Trayvon was running away he chased him, caught up to him and confronted him. That right there gives Trayvon the right to defend himself. What proof do you have that Zimmerman wasn't chasing Trayvon?


Im going to speculate that zimmerman knew what to say to cover his ass. An appoint "watchman" in regular conversation with police and possibly having law enforcement fantasies would know the language and what to say. In 911, as he keeps following martin, repeatedly mentions his hands and where his hand are. Even in a routine trafiic stop leos are instructed to look at hands ans instruct people tp put their hands on the dash, for example. This type of language seems to me to be of someone who would know what to say tp achieve maximum effect. Your avergae joe calling in a suspect would give a description of hieight, weight, build, clothes at most. Dont forget he even assumed martin was on drugs and "not right," simply on assumption.
 
2012-03-22 10:46:16 PM

9beers: OK, time out. I have noting left to drink but some Bacardi and a thing of orange juice. Can you mix those?


Oh yes my dear, now do you have a lil spritz, 7up will do. If not do this.
2 shots rum
3 oz OJ
1 slice orange or lime
splash of coke
and a cherry
poor mans Singapore sling
 
2012-03-22 10:46:53 PM

beta_plus: OK, I'm convinced. As soon as Zimmerman chose to pursue, he gave up all rights to self defense. Trayvon then gained the complete right to straddle him and beat Zimmerman to death. Any resistance by Zimmerman while Trayvon beat him to death was a criminal act.


icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-03-22 10:47:11 PM
Look at the scene in this video: Link (new window)

It looks like the very end of the apartment complex, if not the very last apartment (condo/house whatever)

So Zimmerman either pursued him all the way to the end, or the altercation took place on the way back to his vehicle. (assuming he was already in back during the 911 call). So he hangs up the phone, starts walking back, and Martin jumps him.

Or conversely, he sees him on his way back, says "what are you doing here?" and somehow get in a "fight"
 
2012-03-22 10:47:24 PM

ongbok: No you are the retard that is trying to defend someone who chased down a kid that had a can of ice tea and a bag of Skittles and shot him then tried to claim self defense.


Please try to stick to facts, this post has none. My bad, he did have Skittles.
 
2012-03-22 10:47:52 PM

eraser8: Mrtraveler01: eraser8: Mrtraveler01: Maybe it was just how Wikipedia did it then.

On most government forms that collect race and ethnicity data, there will be a section for race (white, black, asian, native or pacific islander) and a separate box for ethnicity. You can't enter Hispanic as a race because it is not a racial classification. There really are black Hispanics and asian Hispanics.

[a.abcnews.com image 640x360]

Hmm...guess I never noticed that before.

Here's a better photo:

[i.cdn.turner.com image 640x360]

The reason you're asked to answer BOTH questions? Simple: Hispanic doesn't describe race. At all. Anytime you hear somebody claim that Hispanics are always counted as white in, for example, crime statistics, you can safely disregard them. They're lying.


That and Wikipedia must've tried to make Miami look more white than it is.

Although it would take a LOT more than fudging the numbers to do that.

/Learned something new today
 
2012-03-22 10:48:03 PM

Amos Quito: Mrtraveler01: Amos Quito: beta_plus: Not victims of a hate crime

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x394] (new window)

Move along citizen

/only white people can be racist
//except when the perp is hispanic - he can be racist too


If Zimmy is convicted, FBI stats will show that a "white" man murdered a black man.

/FBI stats don't count Hispanics as such
//Except in "hate crimes"
///And then only as victims, not as perps

The US Census count Hispanics as Whites at first. And then they split it between "Non-Hispanic Whites" like me, and "Hispanics".

I learned that when looking at the demographics of some cities near Miami when I was bored one day. Pretty interesting stuff.


Also interesting is that the Bureau of Prisons and the Bureau of Justice Statistics DO note the "Hispaniciy" of those in their "care".

And when Blacks and "Hispanic Whites" are subtracted from the total perp population, the US is a surprisingly civil society.

[baneofyourresistance.files.wordpress.com image 400x385]


That has more to do with the SES level thany thing else, which correlates highly with race/ethnicity.
 
2012-03-22 10:48:21 PM

ChuDogg: I found it: Link (new window)

Notice one car driveways, etc. It wouldn't take long to move around back. It's not like clearing huge swaths of land.


Moving back around where? That's great, I have seen the neighborhood. I want to know where Zimmerman's vehicle was in comparison to where Martin was shot.

And once again, why the hell would Zimmerman have been looking at street signs (testimony to police) when he was on a farking circle. That right there doesn't add up.
 
2012-03-22 10:49:41 PM

9beers: ongbok: I don't give a hell what the eye witness says. From Zimmerman's own words Tryavon was running away, and the only way for Zimmerman to get from where he was to the place where he killed Trayvon was for him to chase him. Trayvon had every right in the world to defend himself from somebody chasing him.

Zimmerman lost sight of Martin and was returning to his vehicle when he was attacked. Can you prove that didn't happen? Remember, we need evidence to charge somebody with a crime.


What planet do you live on? Zimmerman is gong to be charged & convicted of something if not by the State it will be by the Feds.
 
2012-03-22 10:50:11 PM

9beers: OK, time out. I have noting left to drink but some Bacardi and a thing of orange juice. Can you mix those?


Is it spiced rum or clear?
 
2012-03-22 10:51:17 PM

borg: 9beers: ongbok: I don't give a hell what the eye witness says. From Zimmerman's own words Tryavon was running away, and the only way for Zimmerman to get from where he was to the place where he killed Trayvon was for him to chase him. Trayvon had every right in the world to defend himself from somebody chasing him.

Zimmerman lost sight of Martin and was returning to his vehicle when he was attacked. Can you prove that didn't happen? Remember, we need evidence to charge somebody with a crime.

What planet do you live on? Zimmerman is gong to be charged & convicted of something if not by the State it will be by the Feds.


This sounds cynical, but I think Zimmerman is taking a back seat to the investigation with how much the local PD sucks balls for semen.
 
2012-03-22 10:51:18 PM
What people fail to realize about people like myself and ChuDogg is that we're admitting that there isn't evidence to back up everything Zimmerman says. What you fail to realize is that there's no evidence to back up anything that results in Zimmerman being charged with a crime. If there were more witnesses or evidence, Zimmerman could very well be charged. The problem is that there appears to be no additional evidence, leaving us to go with what we know. Based on the facts, Zimmerman can't be charged with a crime. No amount of speculation can replace the need for evidence.
 
2012-03-22 10:51:24 PM
I have a full bar. Wish I could have all of you little fark knobs over for drinks dancing and light hearted debate.
Wouldn't that be fun?
Check your flights.
No poor man Slings here.
 
2012-03-22 10:51:39 PM

ChuDogg: Look at the scene in this video: Link (new window)

It looks like the very end of the apartment complex, if not the very last apartment (condo/house whatever)

So Zimmerman either pursued him all the way to the end, or the altercation took place on the way back to his vehicle. (assuming he was already in back during the 911 call). So he hangs up the phone, starts walking back, and Martin jumps him.

Or conversely, he sees him on his way back, says "what are you doing here?" and somehow get in a "fight"


How are you determining where Zimmerman was? He never states his exact location.
 
2012-03-22 10:52:07 PM

beta_plus: OK, I'm convinced. As soon as Zimmerman chose to pursue, he gave up all rights to self defense. Trayvon then gained the complete right to straddle him and beat Zimmerman to death. Any resistance by Zimmerman while Trayvon beat him to death was a criminal act.


The kid weighed 80 lbs less than Zimmerman.

The rest of the world, and much of America, is appalled by this crime and astonished by the laws and attitudes that justify this sort of behaviour.
 
2012-03-22 10:52:39 PM

Facetious_Speciest: On the 2010 census form, you could enter "Hispanic" or "Mexican" (or whatever) for race and be tallied under the "some other race" category.


That's not true. You can list yourself as "some other race" but it has nothing to do with whether you self-identify as Hispanic. See the photo of the census form I posted above. Your answer regarding the Hispanic question has NOTHING to do with your answer with regard to your race.

In fact, here's a link to the census form. It says right there in black and light blue: "Hispanic origins are not races."
 
2012-03-22 10:53:35 PM

dlp211: You also don't even bother with the girlfriend's statement, which would completely blow away Zimmerman's self defense claim.


Not really. The girlfriends statement was withheld for weeks while the family attorney prepared their legal/media strategy. Notice how it doesn't even really say anything, she heard "what are you doing here" and the phone went off, so obviously Zimmerman attacked him (not sure why the phone would go off?).

While Zimmerman we have record of his conversation, and can analyze that to forensics on the scene. We also have his statements to police immediately after the event, not after discussing things with an attorney to make sure he had the proper strategy.
 
2012-03-22 10:53:58 PM
9beers

What you fail to realize is that there's no evidence to back up anything that results in Zimmerman being charged with a crime.

This may turn out to be a premature conclusion on your part...
 
2012-03-22 10:54:16 PM

redmid17: Is it spiced rum or clear?


Regular Bacardi. I just mixed one up, time for a sip.....

Not bad, but not good either.
 
2012-03-22 10:54:30 PM

9beers: No amount of speculation can replace the need for evidence.


Until the science kicks in. I am yee of little faith on that one. Until then, what can I get u to drink luv?
 
2012-03-22 10:54:31 PM

smeegle: I have a full bar. Wish I could have all of you little fark knobs over for drinks dancing and light hearted debate.
Wouldn't that be fun?
Check your flights.
No poor man Slings here.


Just mail me some bourbon and will call it even.
 
2012-03-22 10:55:09 PM

9beers: What people fail to realize about people like myself and ChuDogg is that we're admitting that there isn't evidence to back up everything Zimmerman says.


No you just believe everything he says while pretending to be "impartial".
 
2012-03-22 10:55:55 PM

Facetious_Speciest: This may turn out to be a premature conclusion on your part...


Sure it could, if new evidence comes to light. The problem with this case right now is the mob crying for "justice". Justice means examining the evidence and doing what's right. To the mob, justice means pressing charges and convicting him of murder.
 
2012-03-22 10:56:02 PM

9beers: What people fail to realize about people like myself and ChuDogg is that we're admitting that there isn't evidence to back up everything Zimmerman says. What you fail to realize is that there's no evidence to back up anything that results in Zimmerman being charged with a crime. If there were more witnesses or evidence, Zimmerman could very well be charged. The problem is that there appears to be no additional evidence, leaving us to go with what we know. Based on the facts, Zimmerman can't be charged with a crime. No amount of speculation can replace the need for evidence.


Based on the facts as we know them, he can be charged with a crime. It will be up to a jury of his peers to ascertain if those facts translate into guilt.
 
2012-03-22 10:56:27 PM

redmid17: Just mail me some bourbon and will call it even.


OKAY 12, 17 or 22?
I dunnos shiat
 
2012-03-22 10:56:31 PM
Allen West just spoke out against the police on the case.

"I have sat back and allowed myself time to assess the current episode revealing itself in Sanford, Florida involving the shooting of 17-year-old Treyvon Martin. First of all, if all that has been reported is accurate, the Sanford Police Chief should be relieved of his duties due to what appears to be a mishandling of this shooting in its early stages. The US Navy SEALS identified Osama Bin Laden within hours, while this young man laid on a morgue slab for three days. The shooter, Mr Zimmerman, should have been held in custody and certainly should not be walking free, still having a concealed weapons carry permit. From my reading, it seems this young man was pursued and there was no probable cause to engage him, certainly not pursue and shoot him....against the direction of the 911 responder. Let's all be appalled at this instance not because of race, but because a young American man has lost his life, seemingly, for no reason. I have signed a letter supporting a DOJ investigation. I am not heading to Sanford to shout and scream, because we need the responsible entities and agencies to handle this situation from this point without media bias or undue political influences. This is an outrage."

As much as I'm glad to see him do a call out, there is an incredible level of irony given what he did in Iraq a few years ago.
 
2012-03-22 10:58:41 PM

Bartleby the Scrivener: Based on the facts as we know them, he can be charged with a crime.


What facts are there to charge Zimmerman? Remember, you need evidence that he broke a law.
 
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