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(Atlanta Journal Constitution)   Chipper Jones will end his Hall of Fame career after this season   (blogs.ajc.com) divider line 36
    More: PSA, Chipper Jones, Hall of Fames, World Baseball Classic, switch-hitters, NL All-Star, Mickey Mantle, Yankees, batting average  
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493 clicks; posted to Sports » on 22 Mar 2012 at 1:02 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



36 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-03-22 01:04:03 PM
1) Easy choice for the Hall. The list of third basemen I'd consider better is pretty short: Schmidt, A-Rod, Brett, Mathews. Pretty comparable to Boggs. Probably a step up on Brooks and Santo, even with their superior defense.

2) Yes, his career was hampered by injuries, but he's still 16th all-time in games played at 3B. If he plays 120 games this year, he'll be in the top 10.

3) "Switch hitter" lists/records are dumb. It's a style of hitting, not a result. Was Rickey Henderson the best "crouch hitter"?

4) It's pretty rare to see guys retire these days with more walks than strikeouts. Chipper had a great blend of contact, patience, and power.
 
2012-03-22 01:04:48 PM
This is a bad sign about how Chipper is feeling and how his season might go. Just a couple weeks ago he was saying that he would wait and see how things were in July or August. To make his decision now kind of makes it appear that he doesn't expect to have a very good year.

That offense might end up being worse than it was the last month of the season, only this time for an entire season.
 
2012-03-22 01:04:54 PM
Don't you mean half way through this season
 
2012-03-22 01:08:44 PM
LAAAAARRRYYY

/Good night, funnyman.
 
2012-03-22 01:13:31 PM

Arkanaut: LAAAAARRRYYY


threestooges.net

Hi!
 
2012-03-22 01:17:52 PM
 
2012-03-22 01:18:40 PM

chimp_ninja: 1) Easy choice for the Hall. The list of third basemen I'd consider better is pretty short: Schmidt, A-Rod, Brett, Mathews. Pretty comparable to Boggs. Probably a step up on Brooks and Santo, even with their superior defense.


Would you say he's first ballot? Are he and Mo both locks for Class of 2018?
 
2012-03-22 01:22:52 PM

srhp29: This is a bad sign about how Chipper is feeling and how his season might go. Just a couple weeks ago he was saying that he would wait and see how things were in July or August. To make his decision now kind of makes it appear that he doesn't expect to have a very good year.

That offense might end up being worse than it was the last month of the season, only this time for an entire season.


I think he already made up his mind, but didn't want it to be a distraction, and tried to pull the "I'll answer those questions at the end of the season" thing. However, people keep asking, so it ended up being a distraction anyway.
 
2012-03-22 01:29:51 PM
List of players with .300 average, 450 home runs, 500 doubles, 1400 walks, .500 slugging percentage, .400 OBP:
Ruth
Gehrig
Williams
Musial
Jones

Mantle, Murray, Jones: Three best switch bitters of all time

If he isn't a lock for the hall of fame, I don't know what is.

That being said, he sure does like theatrics
 
2012-03-22 01:46:44 PM

The Bestest: chimp_ninja: 1) Easy choice for the Hall. The list of third basemen I'd consider better is pretty short: Schmidt, A-Rod, Brett, Mathews. Pretty comparable to Boggs. Probably a step up on Brooks and Santo, even with their superior defense.

Would you say he's first ballot? Are he and Mo both locks for Class of 2018?


To me, he has to be a first ballot. I'd have him higher up on that alltime 3b list. A-rod's still more of a shortstop to me. Chipper's a hair behind A-Rod in ops+ and ops, and he's played about 800 more games at 3b.

I'd take Chipper over Brett too. And Boggs. Better ops+ than the two of them, comparable avg to Brett. Mathews probably beats Chipper, but it's close. Schmidt destroys Chipper (and everyone else at 3b) and I might put Brooks Robinson up there too, but it's hard to value the defense of a guy I've never seen play.

So in my book, that puts Chipper in the top three. That's first ballot.
 
2012-03-22 01:54:12 PM
no fat comments?

not even a Larry?

/disappoint
 
2012-03-22 01:58:46 PM

havocmike: no fat comments?

not even a Larry?

/disappoint


Did you read the thread before you commented? :) (There's a Larry up there)
 
2012-03-22 01:59:56 PM
What I find funny is that people think it is insulting to call a guy called "Chipper", "Larry".

Which name is REALLY worse when it comes down to it?
 
2012-03-22 02:16:46 PM
In little league my friends and I would all pretend to be Jeff Blauser, Fred McGriff or Chipper. Almost 20 years later, Chipper is still playing. Remarkable.

Good luck this season, go out with a bang.
 
2012-03-22 02:29:07 PM

PunchDrunkPanda: In little league my friends and I would all pretend to be Jeff Blauser, Fred McGriff or Chipper. Almost 20 years later, Chipper is still playing. Remarkable.

Good luck this season, go out with a bang.



Would the kid pretending to be Blauser stink on ice unless it was his contract year?
 
2012-03-22 03:58:46 PM
His Hall of Fame career ended a few years ago. Now he's just ending the rest of his baseball career.

I keed, I keed. First round HOF'er.
 
2012-03-22 04:03:55 PM
Meh. He's no Brandon Inge.

/Yes, I'm kidding
 
2012-03-22 04:17:01 PM

ricewater_stool: Meh. He's no Brandon Inge.

/Yes, I'm kidding


No. you are right.
 
2012-03-22 05:11:03 PM

ItsJustJake: His Hall of Fame career ended a few years ago. Now he's just ending the rest of his baseball career.

I keed, I keed. First round HOF'er.


Dude got (deserved) MVP votes every year from age 34 to 36 despite missing time every year due to injury. From 37-39, he reverted to being merely "very good". He's actually aged very well, when he's able to step on the field.

Dafatone: I might put Brooks Robinson up there too, but it's hard to value the defense of a guy I've never seen play.


Even adjusting for era, Chipper was a much, much better hitter. Baseball-reference has Chipper better, but the gap isn't that big:

Chipper: +84.9 offense, -2.2 defense
Brooks: +41.8 offense, +27.3 defense

(That +27.3 for defense is the highest of any player ever, fwiw.)

The Bestest: Would you say he's first ballot? Are he and Mo both locks for Class of 2018?


Yes on Chipper.

I really, really dislike relief pitchers going into the HOF, because they tend to have a lot less influence than people think because they pitch so few innings. That said, if Gossage, Fingers, and Sutter got in, Rivera is a no-brainer. He's the best there ever was at the job... it's just that I think it's a smaller job than starting.
 
2012-03-22 07:36:19 PM
Here's to a great final season, Chipper. We'll be rooting for you.
 
2012-03-22 08:04:18 PM

H31N0US: http://www.theonion.com/articles/nation-dumbfounded-as-to-why-littlel e aguers-favori,2716/ (new window)


LOL I love that because Chipper actually is my favorite player and has been since I was in middle school. He's definitely a lock for HOF and probably a 1st balloter, though you never know. He's got great stats plus 1 mvp, 1 batting title and 1 world series ring. Oh, and he owned the Mets and even named his son Shea because of it
 
2012-03-22 09:16:49 PM

The Bestest: Would you say he's first ballot? Are he and Mo both locks for Class of 2018?


Jones is going to finish with over 450 HRs, so he's in the Hall regardless... but some better players were passed over on their first ballots for pretty much no reason other than the BBWAA members are a bunch of fuktards. I say it's 50/50 on first ballot.... no later than third year... I'd say most likely 2nd year.
 
2012-03-22 09:26:02 PM

chimp_ninja: I really, really dislike relief pitchers going into the HOF, because they tend to have a lot less influence than people think because they pitch so few innings. That said, if Gossage, Fingers, and Sutter got in, Rivera is a no-brainer. He's the best there ever was at the job... it's just that I think it's a smaller job than starting.


Preface: I'm a Mets fan.

I have a hard time seeing an argument against Rivera from a pure value standpoint, assuming you count the postseason. 56 rWAR puts him on the borderline as it is, and that's without counting his postseason career. He's the all time leader in saves, games finished, and ERA+. Rivera's a stone cold lock, barring some PED revelation, and he deserves to be.

WRT Chipper: I hate him like poison and I really, really, really doubt his defensive stats (he got that much better in his 30's?) but he's still a pretty obvious choice for the HOF.

Incidentally, switch hitting matters behind mere "style of hitting." It has a distinct effect on opposing managers wrt relief pitchers and staff usage. It's a benefit and it makes it harder for an opposing manager to maximize his resources against your lineup. It's why Teix got such a premium on his deal from the Yankees. Well, that and they wanted to make sure they bought a Series to inaugurate the new stadium.
 
2012-03-22 09:29:25 PM
I wanted to submit this with the headline:

METS LONG NIGHTMARE IS OVER.
 
2012-03-22 09:32:39 PM

Herschel Pinkus Yerucham Shmoikel Krustofsky: I have a hard time seeing an argument against Rivera from a pure value standpoint, assuming you count the postseason. 56 rWAR puts him on the borderline as it is, and that's without counting his postseason career. He's the all time leader in saves, games finished, and ERA+. Rivera's a stone cold lock, barring some PED revelation, and he deserves to be.


Does rWAR account for leverage? He's a closer, after all.

Stats aside if Mo isn't a first ballot guy they aught to just lock the doors and set the place on fire. Relief pitching may be less important than starting as a whole, but he's still the best there ever was.
 
2012-03-22 10:34:08 PM

steamingpile: I wanted to submit this with the headline:

METS LONG NIGHTMARE IS OVER.


no, because then people would just have assumed the Wilpons died
 
2012-03-22 10:36:47 PM

The Bestest: steamingpile: I wanted to submit this with the headline:

METS LONG NIGHTMARE IS OVER.

no, because then people would just have assumed the Wilpons died


Good point but I still love the fact he named his kid Shea.
 
2012-03-22 11:00:27 PM

The_Great_Hambino: Would the kid pretending to be Blauser stink on ice unless it was his contract year?


Yeah but then I'd pretend I was being Lemke the whole time.

Shut up.
 
2012-03-22 11:45:48 PM
As a Twin fan, I think Jones deserves a first round in... second to only to Griffey...
 
2012-03-23 12:12:42 AM

srhp29: This is a bad sign about how Chipper is feeling and how his season might go. Just a couple weeks ago he was saying that he would wait and see how things were in July or August. To make his decision now kind of makes it appear that he doesn't expect to have a very good year.

That offense might end up being worse than it was the last month of the season, only this time for an entire season.


I give him credit for staying in Atlanta to do it, but he hung on for 3 or 4 more years than he really should have.

I saw him him in the old Sally league, and you knew he was going to be huge.

All-Time Rank (among Batters): #25. Barry Bonds... #26. Carl Yastrzemski... #27. Ken Griffey... #28. CHIPPER JONES... #29. Charlie Gehringer... #30. Eddie Mathews... #31. Al Kaline...

Pretty good company there.
 
2012-03-23 02:23:45 AM

bulldg4life: Mantle, Murray, Jones: Three best switch bitters of all time


charlie hustle ?
 
2012-03-23 02:30:21 AM

bulldg4life: switch bitters


i should have caught that, bitters
 
2012-03-23 02:38:36 AM

What_Would_Jimi_Do: bulldg4life: Mantle, Murray, Jones: Three best switch bitters of all time

charlie hustle ?


Hes not close on all around hitting, singles sure but slugging, walks, HRs.......... There are a lot of categories he falls short in...........

And he only gambled with hooters waitresses not baseball.
 
2012-03-23 08:01:31 AM
Why of course he's going to retire at the end of the year - he's got 14 million to steal earn first. Oh, and if you've never seen one Mr. Brooks Robinson play the hot corner, you should probably withhold comments comparing Jones to him.
 
2012-03-23 08:52:05 AM

DrippinBalls: Why of course he's going to retire at the end of the year - he's got 14 million to steal earn first. Oh, and if you've never seen one Mr. Brooks Robinson play the hot corner, you should probably withhold comments comparing Jones to him.


Unfortunately we also saw him hit which is a larger difference than his fielding.
 
2012-03-24 12:58:29 PM

DrippinBalls: Why of course he's going to retire at the end of the year - he's got 14 million to steal earn first. Oh, and if you've never seen one Mr. Brooks Robinson play the hot corner, you should probably withhold comments comparing Jones to him.


Did anyone claim that Chipper was a superior defender?

The simple case is that Brooks Robinson was roughly a league-average bat for his era. A .267 hitter with average patience and ~20 HR/30 2B power at the peak of his career is only worth so much, even if he catches damn near everything hit to him at a mid-value position. There's nothing contradictory about saying that Brooks was the best defender at 3B in history, and that Chipper was more valuable overall.
 
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