Thunderpipes: Use your head. Enough is enough. He was an adult, he was in charge of his own life. I think the other guy should get in some trouble for being a jerk, but prison? Stupid.

Notice none of this crap was a problem a few decades ago? It was because people were not such fragile little snots.

A few decades ago no one went to jail for drunk driving. Did every drunk driver kill some one? No but they were a risk. Now people know there may be dire consequences if they drink and drive.

Will everyone be hurt by a dick-head like this? No but some people will. Now hopefully people will realize there may be dire consequences for being a dick-head of this proportion.

I hated what this social bully did. He planned on showing his roommate having sex to as many people as would see it the second time. In fact turning the camera to view it was sort of WTF itself for someone whom wasn't comfortable with his assigned roommate.

He should have been asked to be reassigned, but what fun was that.

Here is the rub, the guy that committed suicide, when he realized that multiple people saw him having sex, could have done many things. Go to another college, man up and go out of the closet, sue the roommate for every penny he has.

What does he do? He kills himself, the action that he knew would have the maximum negative effect on himself and also his roommate. In this way I think the roommate knew exactly what he was doing and made a bad choice.

The bully could have plea bargained this down to a relatively minor incident and maybe be forced out of the United States, but no, he had to show his true colors. Enjoy prison biatch.


/The use of 'hate crimes' will become seriously overused in the future.

hitlersbrain: Thunderpipes: Use your head. Enough is enough. He was an adult, he was in charge of his own life. I think the other guy should get in some trouble for being a jerk, but prison? Stupid.

Notice none of this crap was a problem a few decades ago? It was because people were not such fragile little snots.

A few decades ago no one went to jail for drunk driving. Did every drunk driver kill some one? No but they were a risk. Now people know there may be dire consequences if they drink and drive.

Will everyone be hurt by a dick-head like this? No but some people will. Now hopefully people will realize there may be dire consequences for being a dick-head of this proportion.

Do you realize the slippery slope you are pushing? Offending someone can be a crime? Hurting someone's fragile self-esteem deserves prison? What's next, not keeping scores in sports? Not allowing students to kick butt and be a valedictorian? arresting a child for calling another a name? Oh wait, this all happens now, and it is sad.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say a person has the right to not be offended, nor should it. If I blew me head off today, and blamed Fark, would that be reasonable in your eyes? No, it is dumb. There should not be "dire consequences" for being a dick. You know why? At some point in all our lives, someone thinks we are a colossal dick. We all would be in prison. We have made special laws for a specific group of people and that is as prejudiced as it gets.

Thunderpipes: This model doesn't change because we are fancypants.

Your posts typically tug on my tits. With this post though, I've got no choice but to give you a Favorite spot for using the term fancypants. Bravo Zulu.

umad: I see your problem. You seem to think humans aren't animals because some of us are slightly smarter. You are wrong. In the words of the great Maynard Keenan: "Devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been." No amount of feelgoodery of mental masturbation will ever change the fact that the only person responsible for your well-being is you.

I'm sorry, is there a point here?

Many animals are sometimes violent to survive? Yes, but not when they don't HAVE to be. Violence is stupid and wasteful. We don't HAVE to be violent or dickish to survive and I doubt these guys were after the same mate (although...).

We have created laws, police, soldiers and many other institutions that serve as our protectors. Without them we would be dead or enslaved or worse. This is an exercise in the use of these institutions. We deal with threats, in and out of society, without turning into a bunch of snarling screaming dipshiats biting anything in reach including ourselves.

Welcome to being the pinnacle of biological evolution.

404 page not found: Thunderpipes: This model doesn't change because we are fancypants.

Your posts typically tug on my tits. With this post though, I've got no choice but to give you a Favorite spot for using the term fancypants. Bravo Zulu.

It really is true. Name one behavior of any social animal that we don't do. You really can't. We compete for mates, we pick on the weak, we defend our territory and family, we have a sex drive we cannot really put aside, even making war is done by animals (chimps are mean sons of biatches). Bullying is not awesome, but it is part of establishing a pecking order just like a wolf will do. Even the lowest ranking wolf has their place and contributes. Should the alpha be shot because it is mean? Guess what, someone has to be in charge.

So we speak, who gives a shiat. If anything, our super advanced intellect makes us worse as a species. Being a dumbass is rewarded in our society, in any other animal pack the dumbass dies. Here they breed.

Enemabag Jones: Here is the rub, the guy that committed suicide, when he realized that multiple people saw him having sex, could have done many things. Go to another college, man up and go out of the closet, sue the roommate for every penny he has.

He was out. And, from what I've read, at first he did the sane thing and went to his RA, filed a complaint, and asked to be reassigned. The RA confronted Ravi and told him he'd be reassigned. Ravi then confronted Tyler. An hour later he'd had thrown himself off the bridge. I'm curious what was said in that conversation.

\But, no matter how much Ravi pushed him over the edge, I'm with Dan Savage on this one: there are so many responsible parties in our society who told this kid that being gay was wrong that pinning all the blame on the last straw might make us feel better, but it's not justice.

hitlersbrain: umad: I see your problem. You seem to think humans aren't animals because some of us are slightly smarter. You are wrong. In the words of the great Maynard Keenan: "Devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been." No amount of feelgoodery of mental masturbation will ever change the fact that the only person responsible for your well-being is you.

I'm sorry, is there a point here?

Many animals are sometimes violent to survive? Yes, but not when they don't HAVE to be. Violence is stupid and wasteful. We don't HAVE to be violent or dickish to survive and I doubt these guys were after the same mate (although...).

We have created laws, police, soldiers and many other institutions that serve as our protectors. Without them we would be dead or enslaved or worse. This is an exercise in the use of these institutions. We deal with threats, in and out of society, without turning into a bunch of snarling screaming dipshiats biting anything in reach including ourselves.

Welcome to being the pinnacle of biological evolution.

See chimps again. Chimps often kill other animals for sport, not out of any real need. Ever seen a cat play? They toy with their victims, don't even eat em a lot of the time. Monkeys most certainly have their own laws, yet they also sling poop at each other, just like we do here. Look at Fark. Virtual poop everywhere.

Mog32Kupo: trappedspirit: SphericalTime: I came up against the "intention" defense last night, so I'd just like to say this again:

It doesn't matter if he didn't intend to drive Clementi to suicide, if his actions had that effect. He's still guilty of the crimes he was charged with.

So if my unemployed neighbor is driven to suicide because seeing me leave for work each days pushes him over the edge I should be charged?

What about if my coworker who's trying to diet and get healthy kills himself. Can they charge me for the crime because I have pizza and burritos for lunch in my cube (which is visable to him)

/and I mean, its REALLY good pizza and burritos...

Which of these include taking video of someone in the privacy of their own home without permission and posting it to a public forum? Oh that's right none of them.

There's a lot of butthurt in here for an asshole who got what he deserved. This is New Jersey we're talking about, the legal system didn't even have to get involved, just pay an orange guido $50 and Ravi would be the one being thrown off a bridge.

The guy should just suicide before the asspoundings happen.

umad: That is pretty funny. So we can live without violence as long as there is plenty of state-sanctioned violence to keep us in line. Not the brightest bulb are you?

Yeah, places with weak governments or no governments are farkin paradises that everyone is itching to go to. I hear Somalia is nice.

Laws mean we all get together and decide on what is right. Then we have trained people use the force necessary to enforce these laws. It's a nice system and considering we are the baddest most powerful biological force ever on earth it works pretty well.

Thunderpipes: He should not be sorry. Sticks and stones will break my bones and all. I like how offending someone is now a crime. Christ.

Just shows how unequal people want the world to be. So the dude was a pole goblin, so what? We supposed to feel sorry for him for being an idiot and killing himself? You know what drove the kid to suicide? Being a pussy. This whole anti-bullying movement is beyond retarded.

So taking video of someone without their permission in the privacy of their own home is exactly the same as calling someone names right? People should totally have the right to do that all the time. My neighbor is kinda cute, I should be able to put a camera in her shower and post it on youtube.

I sure hope someone video tapes you in the privacy of your own home masturbating, applying hemorrhoid creme, or doing something equally embarrassing and posts it on line. I'm sure you'd probably end up being a pussy and suing them.

Skirl Hutsenreiter,
Enemabag Jones: Here is the rub, the guy that committed suicide, when he realized that multiple people saw him having sex, could have done many things. Go to another college, man up and go out of the closet, sue the roommate for every penny he has.
He was out. And, from what I've read, at first he did the sane thing and went to his RA, filed a complaint, and asked to be reassigned. The RA confronted Ravi and told him he'd be reassigned. Ravi then confronted Tyler. An hour later he'd had thrown himself off the bridge. I'm curious what was said in that conversation.
\But, no matter how much Ravi pushed him over the edge, I'm with Dan Savage on this one: there are so many responsible parties in our society who told this kid that being gay was wrong that pinning all the blame on the last straw might make us feel better, but it's not justice.

Thanks much for the details. I don't know what exactly to say, it gives me a new take on this.

The more I know about Ravi the more he becomes a would-be corporate sociopath.

To those who are saying the punishment was too harsh....

Remember he was offered a plea deal with no prison time and help to avoid deportation and he declined. He rolled the dice and lost.

Enemabag Jones: /The use of 'hate crimes' will become seriously overused in the future.

WILL?!?! Newsflash buddy, it was overused the first day this shiathole law went into effect.

Why Would I Read the Article ,
Enemabag Jones: /The use of 'hate crimes' will become seriously overused in the future.
WILL?!?! Newsflash buddy, it was overused the first day this shiathole law went into effect.


The problem is not the law itself, it is perfectly appropiate for assholes that drag black men from a pickup or leave gay men on a barbed wire fence.

The problem is DA's love to throw the book at some cases and see what sticks.

hitlersbrain: Yeah, places with weak governments or no governments are farkin paradises that everyone is itching to go to. I hear Somalia is nice.

fallacy of the extreme. North Korea has a lot of laws and a very strong government. Can I assume that you want to move there, or are you just being retarded because you think its proves any point other than showing off your low wattage IQ?

Imagine I get stuck sharing a hotel room with my boss (I'd rather sandpaper an Alligator's asshole in a phone booth) and I put a camera in the shared room to see what kind of shiat he pulls when I'm not there.

Later, I see him with a woman and I tweet "Mr. Boss is getting farked by someone who isn't Mrs. Boss", and he later kills himself over the impending divorce, I'm guilty of some kind of special "intimidation" crime now?

Thunderpipes: See chimps again. Chimps often kill other animals for sport, not out of any real need. Ever seen a cat play? They toy with their victims, don't even eat em a lot of the time. Monkeys most certainly have their own laws, yet they also sling poop at each other, just like we do here. Look at Fark. Virtual poop everywhere.

All animals kill for sport even when they're not hungry, if they think they can do it without risk to life and limb. Some people like to believe certain "noble" animals don't, but belief doesn't change reality, it only makes excuses for it.

Thunderpipes: See chimps again. Chimps often kill other animals for sport, not out of any real need. Ever seen a cat play? They toy with their victims, don't even eat em a lot of the time. Monkeys most certainly have their own laws, yet they also sling poop at each other, just like we do here. Look at Fark. Virtual poop everywhere.

Sure chimps are violent (serious jerks of the animal kingdom actually) but they also are the ones WE keep in cages and have to work hard not to accidentally exterminate. If they had learned to cooperate a little better maybe we'd be in their cages.

Considering I have 5 lazy cats sleeping all day while I work, I think they learned how to cooperate with us just fine.

I agree with you that there should probably always be a little 'poop slinging' but there has to be boundaries. When some one like this guy goes way, way out of his way to make some one else miserable with no good reason, I think that crosses the boundary.

Let me break this down so that even Thunderpipes can understand.

Davi was not put on trial for Tyler's death. He was put on trial for invasion of privacy and tampering of evidence and witnesses.

Davi invaded Tyler's privacy. He was taping and publicly broadcasting Clementi having sexual relations without his knowledge and consent.

Davi tampered with evidence. He deleted the Tweets where he bragged about taping and showing Clementi having sex.

Davi tampered with witnesses. He told them to lie and say that Davi never mentioned spying on Clementi.

These are the crimes that Ravi was convicted of. There is no "slippery slope".

I suppose you're ok with guys secretly broadcasting your sexytime with your inflatible "girlfriend" all over the internet and getting away with it. Though your left hand might get jealous.

Oh, that's funny... FARK won't let me link to the report about wolves butchering over 100 helpless sheep trapped in a fenced-in field in one night and leaving the carcasses to rot. Guess some things are even more controversial than homophobia and racial violence.

pedrop357,
Imagine I get stuck sharing a hotel room with my boss (I'd rather sandpaper an Alligator's asshole in a phone booth) and I put a camera in the shared room to see what kind of shiat he pulls when I'm not there.
Later, I see him with a woman and I tweet "Mr. Boss is getting farked by someone who isn't Mrs. Boss", and he later kills himself over the impending divorce, I'm guilty of some kind of special "intimidation" crime now?

There is the nuance. Did Ravi hate his roommate for his personality, for being gay, or maybe both.

/Just like the white guy pulling the the N word out of the tool chest out of simplicity when he gets annoyed, a word he might otherwise never use. Is that racial hate, or a social tool?

Would Ravi have done any of this if Tyler had been straight?

Thunderpipes: trappedspirit: Thunderpipes: All animals in nature compete, we are no different.

Uh, really? Have you ever seen an animal invent the internet? ANIMALS DON'T MAKE PORN!

If you really think making nobody alpha is a good thing, you are a moron.

So how does that work, do we hold a vote? Do we draw straws? Are there nominations?

Umm, this might come as a shock to you, but we are animals. Al Gore invented the Internet, he is an animal, and animals generally compete for resources. This model doesn't change because we are fancypants.

umad: hitlersbrain: Friedrich Nietzsche: Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster.

Sounds like you just became the scum that was hurting you. I believe there should be leaders but not people considered 'Alphas', especially when they win that status for just being destructive and annoying. Not that I really believe your story, from your posts you seem like one of the cowards that would have looked away when I was big enough to fight back.

I swore to myself I'd never BE one of those farkers.

Wolves, monkeys and other animals compete with violence and annoying behavior but, you know, they're not smart enough to figure out a better way. But if you wanna live a jungle, your way works.

I see your problem. You seem to think humans aren't animals because some of us are slightly smarter. You are wrong. In the words of the great Maynard Keenan: "Devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been." No amount of feelgoodery of mental masturbation will ever change the fact that the only person responsible for your well-being is you.

It's funny how people will argue that humans aren't animals for one topic, then turn around and say we are animals for another topic, especially if it's a topic they dislike.

Disaster relief: "We should help each other! We're not savage animals!"
Bullying that leads to death: "Too bad for them, it's a savage world and we're just doing what the other animals do."

Thunderpipes: It really is true. Name one behavior of any social animal that we don't do. You really can't. We compete for mates, we pick on the weak, we defend our territory and family, we have a sex drive we cannot really put aside, even making war is done by animals (chimps are mean sons of biatches). Bullying is not awesome, but it is part of establishing a pecking order just like a wolf will do. Even the lowest ranking wolf has their place and contributes. Should the alpha be shot because it is mean? Guess what, someone has to be in charge.

Not really. If we are just animals running through some prearranged chain of chemical reactions then no one is in charge. In fact complaining about people trying to change the alpha role is complaining to animals to stop doing what comes naturally.

He wasn't arrested or prosecuted for Tyler's suicide; he was arrested and prosecuted for invasion of privacy (shocking, secretly filming people is illegal!) and intimidation.

But ignoring all that, there seems to be something mentally wrong with Ravi. Extreme narcissism or just a straight up sociopath. Both in what he's done, said and the way he presents himself is just strikingly wrong. I understand why his lawyer kept him off the stand, but I wouldn't be surprised if his attitude wasn't part of the reason the jury convicted him.

I think I would a have a few regrets not taking a plea deal that would have kept me out of prison where there's a high chance of being raped, assaulted and murdered. Then assuming I survived that I'd be forced back to a third world country I hadn't seen since I was two. I think if the prosecutor wanted me to say I was the meat in between a Tyler and M.B. sandwich, I would have, even if it was a lie.

Why Would I Read the Article: fallacy of the extreme. North Korea has a lot of laws and a very strong government. Can I assume that you want to move there, or are you just being retarded because you think its proves any point other than showing off your low wattage IQ?

North Korea? What were you saying about the fallacy of the extreme? Show me an example of a huge population living happily and successfully without a strong government or at least without one looking out for them (The USA looks after a few like Costa Rica). I can show you quite a few WITH one.

North Korea is more an example of the tooth and claw world that comes about when people don't cooperate. The craziest, most violent psychopath gets everything and everyone else gets the shaft. If people cooperated better there, the little despots there would be out on their asses. The people who think tooth and claw is the way to go always imagine themselves on the top. Trust me, that won't happen.

BigNumber12: namegoeshere: Would Ravi have done any of this if Tyler had been straight?


Are you suggesting that nobody ever spies on heterosexual sex?

He spied on him because it was gay sex. He tweeted because it was gay sex. He invited people to watch because it was gay sex.

The behavior of "gay sex" was shocking and abhorrent to him. So he made a big deal out of it in an inappropriate and illegal way. That is the only reason why this is.

GAY

Profedius: First off I am bi-sexual now with that out of the way:

I do not agree with the charges I think he should have been charged with video voyeurism, invasion of privacy and unauthorized use of illegally obtained video. I do not like the idea for charging people with hate crimes due to some aspect of the victim's race or sexual orientation it separates people and creates negative attention to the race or sexual orientation.

You do realize these charges aren't added on because of the victim's race or sexual orientation right?
It's because they were primary motivator behind the perpetrator's crime.

White guy robs and kills a black guy for $10. Not a hate crime.
White guy kills a black guy because he wants to kill a back guy. Hate crime.

We already make the distinction between motivations for crimes (first degree murder, second degree, manslaughter, etc.) and it's considered especially heinous to target someone based only on their genetics. That's why someone is given a lesser sentence for a crime of passion compared to someone who commits premeditated murder.

kukukupo: I view getting stuck with a gay roomate in college in the same vein as a smoking roomate. You should get to move or switch immediately without penalty.

I'm guessing you're a troll, but let me make it clear:

poll smoking =/= cigarette smoking

The important issue here is that being gay is not a choice. Unless you're going to say that you can switch if your roommate is black or Jewish or ugly. Either way, you're still a terrible human being.

namegoeshere: The behavior of "gay sex" was shocking and abhorrent to him. So he made a big deal out of it in an inappropriate and illegal way. That is the only reason why this is.

So are you suggesting this might possibly be a case of reverse gay persecution?

Skirl Hutsenreiter: kukukupo: I view getting stuck with a gay roomate in college in the same vein as a smoking roomate. You should get to move or switch immediately without penalty.

Freshman roommate matching at my college was done by a student committee, and while they mostly took it seriously, they did like playing some games with it. A question on the matching survey asked if you'd be okay with a gay roommate. One year, the guy who scrawled "NO" the biggest and boldtest on that question got a roommate with the last name Gay.

\A few years later they put a Brent, Brandt and Brant together in one room. Trying to get one of them on the phone was hilarious.

In my suite of six people freshman year, three of us were half-asian (all different kinds, too, and there was a fourth guy who was full Korean). One of the other half-Asian guys had the same first name as I did.

trappedspirit: namegoeshere: The behavior of "gay sex" was shocking and abhorrent to him. So he made a big deal out of it in an inappropriate and illegal way. That is the only reason why this is.

So are you suggesting this might possibly be a case of reverse gay persecution?

I'm not getting what you mean by reverse.

BigNumber12: Joshudan: To those who are saying the punishment was too harsh....

Remember he was offered a plea deal with no prison time and help to avoid deportation and he declined. He rolled the dice and lost.


Sooo if the Government arrested you for kiddie porn tomorrow, and offered you a reduced-sentence plea bargain, we'd all be justified in condemning you because you invoked your right to a trial and ended up losing?

I wouldn't expect anyone to say the punishment was too harsh. But I would also have to. be somewhat connected to kiddie porn and have a reason to be arrested, soooio you're taking a bit of liberty there.

How about "if one is arrested for a crime that they committed (invasion of privacy in this case) and declined an offered plea deal with no jail time then It is justifiable to remind others of that fact when those others are saying that the defendant was treated too harshly because they have a chance to be sentenced to jail. "

I'm not sure why this has to be spelled out so simply, but this is Fark, sooooooo...