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(MSNBC)   Four in ten Americans set to burst into flames upon entering church because they think there's too much religion in politics   (usnews.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 144
    More: Obvious, Americans, evangelical churches, Pew Research Center, political question, Colorado State University, Rick Santorum, Mitt Romney, NBC News  
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1469 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Mar 2012 at 11:40 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-22 02:19:49 AM
There is.
 
2012-03-22 02:22:21 AM
i188.photobucket.com
 
2012-03-22 02:49:54 AM
These days there are a lot of issues in the government that are getting tied into the principles of the church. Specifically the abortion and birth control politics.
 
2012-03-22 03:04:37 AM
Is that the same as four tens? That's turrible.
 
2012-03-22 03:54:15 AM
I doubt it. More like 2 out of 5.
 
2012-03-22 04:51:56 AM
I see plenty of theocrats. I see plenty of people throwing themselves up on the cross to cry over perceived persecution. I do not, however, see a single Christian in this GOP bunch.
 
2012-03-22 05:33:14 AM
"When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you. In praying, do not babble like the pagans, who think that they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them. Your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Matthew 6: 5-8
 
2012-03-22 07:34:38 AM
I don't think there's enough talk about religion. I'd like to see a lot more of it. Let's hear more about how women should have no right to control their reproductive health. About how women who are purchasing insurance should have to pay out of pocket for birth control pills, even when prescribed for a medical condition. About how single mothers are abusive parents. About how women should carry dead fetuses at great risk because that's how cows and pigs do it. About how a loving gay couple should be denied the protections granted straight couples. About how they cannot be wonderful parents. About how vaccinating girls against HPV is a crime against humanity. About how teaching evolution and the science of climate change is an attack on the rights of parents. About how reading books about the history of non-white America is dangerous to the stability of this great nation.

But I might have ulterior motives.
 
2012-03-22 08:19:31 AM
only 40 percent? jesus, this country really is farked.
 
2012-03-22 08:27:25 AM

FlashHarry: only 40 percent? jesus, this country really is farked.


To be fair, if it was more than 40%, they assholes wouldn't do talk about religion so much.

I do have to wonder who thinks that politicians don't talk about their religion enough. I don't know any of these fundies well enough to ascertain what exactly they believe is to be gained by having politics motivated by religion.
 
2012-03-22 08:29:08 AM
huh, I would have thought it would have been higher.
and what Harry said.
 
2012-03-22 08:29:53 AM
And it only took 60 years.
 
2012-03-22 08:55:14 AM

Uncle Tractor: "When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you. In praying, do not babble like the pagans, who think that they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them. Your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Matthew 6: 5-8


So true.

media.masslive.com
 
2012-03-22 08:58:53 AM
I think part of the swing is because much of what we hear about religious positions is trending towards extremist.

It is one thing to use your religious background to show your involvement in the community as a good leadership trait. It is quite another to use your religion as an excuse to deny gay marriage rights or access to sexual education and contraception.
 
2012-03-22 09:02:01 AM

ginandbacon: About how reading books about the history of non-white America is dangerous to the stability of this great nation.


Except the one about the non-white guy who was God.

They just white-wash it.
 
2012-03-22 09:08:34 AM
It seems to me that the Catholic church is up to its ears in politics. Mormon too.

We should tax them.
 
2012-03-22 09:11:28 AM

Marcus Aurelius: It seems to me that the Catholic church is up to its ears in politics. Mormon too.

We should tax them.


Came here for this. Not disappointed.
 
2012-03-22 09:15:09 AM

Slives: It is one thing to use your religious background to show your involvement in the community as a good leadership trait. It is quite another to use your religion as an excuse to deny gay marriage rights or access to sexual education and contraception.


What, because Joe Democrat helped serve calzones for a half-hour at St. Frankie's summer festival, it qualifies him to throw billions of dollars around?
 
2012-03-22 09:18:25 AM
Only? For fark's sake.

We need a wave of understanding to wash over the country, so people can grasp that THEY TEND TO BELIEVE DIFFERENT THINGS FROM WHAT YOU BELIEVE.
 
2012-03-22 09:21:31 AM

Slives: I think part of the swing is because much of what we hear about religious positions is trending towards extremist.

It is one thing to use your religious background to show your involvement in the community as a good leadership trait. It is quite another to use your religion as an excuse to deny gay marriage rights or access to sexual education and contraception.


When it comes to separation of church and state, I can deal with the religious claiming their religion has issues with ideas such as gay marriage. That's a part of religious freedom. If a Christian wants to believe that, then fine.

What I don't like, is poli-tickin' from the pulpit, and things like the Mormons and Catholics basically using their church as bases of operating to organize and raise funds for an effort that affects legislation (see "Proposition 8").

The whole separation of church and state has always been a bit weird to me. I understand it, I agree with it, but it seems so futile. As if it can only go so far. What is politics, if not the application of philosophy by a standard of law? For the religious, their philosophy is their religion, and they apply those believes in the way they think a country should be run.

Anyway, rambling mode off.
 
2012-03-22 09:38:12 AM

Via Infinito: Marcus Aurelius: It seems to me that the Catholic church is up to its ears in politics. Mormon too.

We should tax them.

Came here for this. Not disappointed.


And then they'd buy themselves the same tax breaks as every other connected business, union and pressure group. Chances are you'd end up with negative revenue and churches throwing their weight around like never before.

Way to think things through there.
 
2012-03-22 09:55:58 AM

Bloody William: Only? For fark's sake.

We need a wave of understanding to wash over the country, so people can grasp that THEY TEND TO BELIEVE DIFFERENT THINGS FROM WHAT YOU BELIEVE.


I was surprised it was that low, too. It's farking founding principle, enshrined in our governing document.

It's not about faith. It's about power. The church, whichever it might be, is just a front.
 
2012-03-22 09:58:01 AM

Slives: It is quite another to use your religion as an excuse to deny gay marriage rights


I have a question maybe a Christian can answer for me. The gay thing is in Leviticus, which is Old Testament. Didn't Jesus say that everything in the Old Testament was obsolete upon his coming and that the New Testament was the new law?

Because if Leviticus still counts then so does Exodus, and I want my damn slave.
 
2012-03-22 10:02:40 AM
i236.photobucket.com

www.mediaite.com
 
2012-03-22 10:04:08 AM

ignatius_crumbcake: Slives: It is quite another to use your religion as an excuse to deny gay marriage rights

I have a question maybe a Christian can answer for me. The gay thing is in Leviticus, which is Old Testament. Didn't Jesus say that everything in the Old Testament was obsolete upon his coming and that the New Testament was the new law?

Because if Leviticus still counts then so does Exodus, and I want my damn slave.


Interesting question. I wonder what gave you the idea that Jesus said that? This is the first time I've ever heard of it, though I'm no religious expert. The closest thing I can think of is that Jesus said, "I am the way and the light," which pretty much sounds like he's saying, "Listen to me, and only me, biatches!"
 
2012-03-22 10:13:04 AM

Cythraul: The closest thing I can think of is that Jesus said, "I am the way and the light," which pretty much sounds like he's saying, "Listen to me, and only me, biatches!"


I am reminded of Judge Dredd now.
 
2012-03-22 10:17:16 AM
Religion and politics are a dangerous combination. For their own individual best interests, they should be kept as separate as possible.
 
2012-03-22 10:17:20 AM
Yeah... I'd like to see that number somewhere around 7/10 or 8/10, but 4/10 is a good start.

Religious dogma should have no place in our secular government. Period.

Profess your faith in church or in your home. That's were it belongs.
 
2012-03-22 10:18:00 AM

Cythraul: Interesting question. I wonder what gave you the idea that Jesus said that? This is the first time I've ever heard of it, though I'm no religious expert. The closest thing I can think of is that Jesus said, "I am the way and the light," which pretty much sounds like he's saying, "Listen to me, and only me, biatches!"


John 6:44 I believe -- "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

In other words, "You ain't getting into Heaven unless you fall in line."
 
2012-03-22 10:20:19 AM

Cythraul: Interesting question. I wonder what gave you the idea that Jesus said that?

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

- Hebrews 8:13

The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless. - Hebrews 7:18

Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. - Galatians 6:2

Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. - Romans 10:4

by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, - Ephesians 2:15

Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. - Galatians 3:23-29
 
2012-03-22 10:20:22 AM

PanicMan: Religion and politics are a dangerous combination. For their own individual best interests, they should be kept as separate as possible.


That's the thing that gets me the most. Religious folks don't seem to understand that the separation clause is there just as much for them as it is for secular folks and the government.

So many of the people of faith in this country think it's a one way street. "You can't tell us what to do, but we sure as hell will tell you what you can do, Government."
 
2012-03-22 10:28:45 AM

Diogenes: PanicMan: Religion and politics are a dangerous combination. For their own individual best interests, they should be kept as separate as possible.

That's the thing that gets me the most. Religious folks don't seem to understand that the separation clause is there just as much for them as it is for secular folks and the government.

So many of the people of faith in this country think it's a one way street. "You can't tell us what to do, but we sure as hell will tell you what you can do, Government."


I powered through season 1 of Game of Thrones in about 3 days, so right now I'm pretty sensitive to the power of words and the abuse of power they can allow. The number of votes Rick Santorum is getting makes me very uncomfortable.
 
2012-03-22 10:49:16 AM

ignatius_crumbcake: Cythraul: Interesting question. I wonder what gave you the idea that Jesus said that?

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. - Hebrews 8:13

The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless. - Hebrews 7:18

Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. - Galatians 6:2

Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. - Romans 10:4

by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, - Ephesians 2:15

Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. - Galatians 3:23-29


You realize those are Paul's words, not Jesus', right?
 
2012-03-22 10:49:23 AM

PanicMan: I powered through season 1 of Game of Thrones in about 3 days, so right now I'm pretty sensitive to the power of words and the abuse of power they can allow. The number of votes Rick Santorum is getting makes me very uncomfortable.


Think that's bad? Mom tells me grandma is thinking of voting for Santorum because Romney's religion scares her. So far I haven't seen nor heard Romney advocate making caffeine and tobacco illegal.

Of course, that fear is based in the fact that she knows absolutely nothing about Mormonism, but that's another matter.
 
2012-03-22 10:50:43 AM
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." - 1st Amendment, U.S. Constitution.

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties." - Thomas Jefferson, in the Letter to the Danbury Baptists, which has been cited in countless court precedents as clarifying the intent of the First Amendment.

Ergo:

ANY RELIGION IN POLITICS IS TOO MUCH F*CKING RELIGION IN POLITICS. THERE IS NO "DEBATE." PERIOD.
 
2012-03-22 11:01:35 AM
Kinda like Fark religious threads with a politics tag.
 
2012-03-22 11:02:54 AM

MaxxLarge: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." - 1st Amendment, U.S. Constitution.

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties." - Thomas Jefferson, in the Letter to the Danbury Baptists, which has been cited in countless court precedents as clarifying the intent of the First Amendment.

Ergo:

ANY RELIGION IN POLITICS IS TOO MUCH F*CKING RELIGION IN POLITICS. THERE IS NO "DEBATE." PERIOD.


This. So farking much this.
 
2012-03-22 11:03:22 AM

DarwiOdrade: You realize those are Paul's words, not Jesus', right?


So do Christians ignore all the things Paul said? Does that stuff not count? And where would Paul have gotten those ideas if not from Jesus? Surely the man said lots of things that didn't make it directly into a gospel. Are we to assume that Paul was making stuff up? If those are Paul's words, and not Jesus', then is everything not specifically said by Jesus irrelevant? Exactly what parts of the New Testament are Jesus' teachings and which ones aren't?
 
2012-03-22 11:31:57 AM

ignatius_crumbcake: Are we to assume that Paul was making stuff up?


You pretty much can't go wrong thinking that.

ignatius_crumbcake: Exactly what parts of the New Testament are Jesus' teachings and which ones aren't?


Well, since Jesus wasn't going around writing stuff down, you can't really KNOW. Generally accepted theory is Matthew Mark Luke...that John guy is pretty shady. Anything other than those, is Paul redesigning a dogma to fit his idea of what Jeebus really MEANT.

Oh, and Revelations...that shiat is just crazy.
 
2012-03-22 11:35:46 AM
Four in ten. Four in ten. Four in ten. Don't wanna be your monkey wrench.
 
2012-03-22 11:44:51 AM
does that mean 6 in 10 think there is not enough religion in politics?
 
2012-03-22 11:45:01 AM
6 in 10 aren't paying attention, apparently.
 
2012-03-22 11:47:02 AM
Golly, how'd that happen?

www.theage.com.au
 
2012-03-22 11:47:38 AM
Why do Americans hate America?
 
2012-03-22 11:47:57 AM

eeeleeet: These days there are a lot of issues in the government that are getting tied into the principles of the church. Specifically the abortion and birth control politics.


Except they aren't, really. I mean, sure, for Catholics, yes. But the vast majority of protestant denominations claim to be sola scriptura (only the bible is the legit word of god) and sola fidelis (salvation occurs through faith alone) sects, meaning that their religion technically doesn't say a goddamned thing about either birth control or abortion.

Which should, as a protestant, make you think, because it's not like either is a new thing that needed to be explained in terms of older laws, both abortion and birth control were quite popular when the bible was written so if it was in fact a moral question they could have easily put it in there.

//The Romans loved their herbal birth control so much that we can't directly examine it because they drove it to extinction, and we didn't figure out a replacement trick for chemical control until most of a millennium later.
 
2012-03-22 11:52:02 AM

Ennuipoet: Well, since Jesus wasn't going around writing stuff down, you can't really KNOW. Generally accepted theory is Matthew Mark Luke...that John guy is pretty shady. Anything other than those, is Paul redesigning a dogma to fit his idea of what Jeebus really MEANT.


That theory is not "generally accepted" at all, not even slightly.

In fact, given that you're essentially discounting everything Jesus said after dying and the existence of the Holy Spirit/Inspired word, that's tantamount to denying the reality of the Resurrection, which is big-league heresy in most Christian denominations.

I guess maybe you're an Aryan? In the original sense of the sect that got told to fark off at the council of Nicea, not the Hitler sense.
 
2012-03-22 11:52:58 AM

Headso: does that mean 6 in 10 think there is not enough religion in politics?


Probably four in ten want MORE religion in politics and two in ten don't pay attention either way.
 
2012-03-22 11:54:04 AM

Cythraul: ignatius_crumbcake: Slives: It is quite another to use your religion as an excuse to deny gay marriage rights

I have a question maybe a Christian can answer for me. The gay thing is in Leviticus, which is Old Testament. Didn't Jesus say that everything in the Old Testament was obsolete upon his coming and that the New Testament was the new law?

Because if Leviticus still counts then so does Exodus, and I want my damn slave.

Interesting question. I wonder what gave you the idea that Jesus said that? This is the first time I've ever heard of it, though I'm no religious expert. The closest thing I can think of is that Jesus said, "I am the way and the light," which pretty much sounds like he's saying, "Listen to me, and only me, biatches!"


Actually, the bible is full of contradictions on that. (new window)
 
2012-03-22 11:54:10 AM

Gulper Eel: Uncle Tractor: "When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you. In praying, do not babble like the pagans, who think that they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them. Your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Matthew 6: 5-8

So true.


Obama is a seekrit muslin, so yeah, I guess he doesn't pray *for realsies* in public.
 
2012-03-22 11:54:11 AM
Yes, and.

Hell there are people like me who think there are too many churches period. Also churches should not be granted tax exempt status for being a church.
 
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