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(Some Guy)   A message to angry Mass Effect 3 players, from Bioware's co-founder   (blog.bioware.com) divider line 492
    More: Followup, Mass Effect 3, Mass Effect, Bioware, Coke Zero  
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11518 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Mar 2012 at 12:54 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-21 10:15:01 PM
My biggest issue with the Indoctrination Theory: It doesn't work for new players to the series or PS3 players who only jump in on ME2.
 
2012-03-21 10:15:09 PM

Vaneshi: Thankfully this seems to be changing albeit slowly (perhaps more slowly than we'd like but whatever). I see more comments of "I'll wait for a let's play from X" or "I want to see a WTF is of this one before I part with cash", all of which is, overall, good. It distributes it out in such numbers that it becomes nigh on impossible to throw a bung and get some nice reviews and attendant scores. You'd have to pay hundreds, if not thousands of people.


In turn, companies are pushing pre-orders very, very hard. Adding in DLC or other bonuses for people that pre-order, etc. Plus there's the social element; the majority of the people who buy games couldn't care much what the internet says, they're going to play the new Realisticish Gritty Shooter no matter what. Sure, it's the exact same one as the last Realisticish Gritty Shooter, but who gives a shiat? That one was fun and this one has new maps! And, to be fair, those people have a blast. In a way it's like insulting people for eating at McDonalds...as long as they enjoy it, more power to them.

So while I really hate the review culture and would rather read for a couple weeks about the impact of the game and bla bla whatever, I know I'm the tiny, tiny minority that likes to vote with their wallet. Kickstarter gives me a nerd boner.

Vaneshi: No not really. Nobody expected there would be an ending that made the Krogan give you a birthday cake, everyone knew that this was Shep's last dance.


Before I saw this clusterfark, I would have bet that letting Shepard live was a slim possibility, with the highest chance for it to be Renegade only (let the galaxy soak the Reapers and have the Humans turtle up and come in near the end or something else that's incredibly selfish).
 
2012-03-21 10:21:26 PM

DeWayne Mann: pushpinder: not to mention that the destruction of the mass teleporters is the equivalent to a supernova

Pointed this out in the other thread, but, no.

The mass relay in Arrival caused a supernova because it got hit by a fricken asteroid.

The mass relays in the ME3 ending are destroyed by a built in self destruct signal. Why would anyone think the built in self destruct would cause a supernova?


NOTHING in the DLC says its the asteroid collision that causes the destruction of the system. The asteroid causes it to explode and the explosion takes out the system..... Honestly I probably agree the space magic explosion probably doesnt take out systems, but we honestly arent given any information to know either way.
 
2012-03-21 10:23:27 PM

sprawl15: Before I saw this clusterfark, I would have bet that letting Shepard live was a slim possibility, with the highest chance for it to be Renegade only (let the galaxy soak the Reapers and have the Humans turtle up and come in near the end or something else that's incredibly selfish).


Or something morally ambiguous like the way to get your Warden and Alistair to live at the end of Dragon Age Origins. The deal with Morrigan certainly feels wrong, but isn't obviously evil...But it at least made some kind of sense.

As it exists in the current ending, Shepard lives...if your military was strong enough and you choose to kill the only truly peaceful race in the galaxy. So it's both outright evil, and it doesn't make sense why that should let Shepard live.
 
2012-03-21 10:25:01 PM

HalEmmerich: The Prothean VI very briefly puts forward the idea on Thessia that something is driving the Reapers before Kai Leng shows up and ruins your day. But that's it.


As throw away as Haestrom's star really.

ha-ha-guy: The end of the next cycle comes and the species pops up "So umh yeah Repears we planned ahead...." and takes them out.


The Protheans on Ilos were in stasis for centuries, possibly longer as Vigil had serious power supply problems. It takes that long to complete the reap. The Yhag know about galactic civilisation and know, to a degree, what is happening. They've been contaminated but aren't a direct threat to the Reapers... They'll be dealt with on the outbound.

Your character in Mass Effect 4 will be descended from the monkeys you've been shooting at, the ones with the long fuzzy tails.
 
2012-03-21 10:26:14 PM

Vaneshi: HalEmmerich: The Prothean VI very briefly puts forward the idea on Thessia that something is driving the Reapers before Kai Leng shows up and ruins your day. But that's it.

As throw away as Haestrom's star really.

ha-ha-guy: The end of the next cycle comes and the species pops up "So umh yeah Repears we planned ahead...." and takes them out.

The Protheans on Ilos were in stasis for centuries, possibly longer as Vigil had serious power supply problems. It takes that long to complete the reap. The Yhag know about galactic civilisation and know, to a degree, what is happening. They've been contaminated but aren't a direct threat to the Reapers... They'll be dealt with on the outbound.

Your character in Mass Effect 4 will be descended from the monkeys you've been shooting at, the ones with the long fuzzy tails.


Pyjack Shep?
 
2012-03-21 10:46:43 PM

Vaneshi: HalEmmerich: The Prothean VI very briefly puts forward the idea on Thessia that something is driving the Reapers before Kai Leng shows up and ruins your day. But that's it.

As throw away as Haestrom's star really.

ha-ha-guy: The end of the next cycle comes and the species pops up "So umh yeah Repears we planned ahead...." and takes them out.

The Protheans on Ilos were in stasis for centuries, possibly longer as Vigil had serious power supply problems. It takes that long to complete the reap. The Yhag know about galactic civilisation and know, to a degree, what is happening. They've been contaminated but aren't a direct threat to the Reapers... They'll be dealt with on the outbound.

Your character in Mass Effect 4 will be descended from the monkeys you've been shooting at, the ones with the long fuzzy tails.


They never really did explain what was going on with Haestrom's star...after they seemingly made a big fuss over it in ME2.
 
2012-03-21 10:51:15 PM

SN1987a goes boom: Vaneshi: HalEmmerich: The Prothean VI very briefly puts forward the idea on Thessia that something is driving the Reapers before Kai Leng shows up and ruins your day. But that's it.

As throw away as Haestrom's star really.

ha-ha-guy: The end of the next cycle comes and the species pops up "So umh yeah Repears we planned ahead...." and takes them out.

The Protheans on Ilos were in stasis for centuries, possibly longer as Vigil had serious power supply problems. It takes that long to complete the reap. The Yhag know about galactic civilisation and know, to a degree, what is happening. They've been contaminated but aren't a direct threat to the Reapers... They'll be dealt with on the outbound.

Your character in Mass Effect 4 will be descended from the monkeys you've been shooting at, the ones with the long fuzzy tails.

They never really did explain what was going on with Haestrom's star...after they seemingly made a big fuss over it in ME2.


One of the larger rumors floating around is that the original story for ME3 was going to have the reapers mention something about that. Something about eezo and dark energy and something about the need to exterminate advanced civilization so that it doesn't ruin the chance for future life. Similar to the current ending but more environmental and on a galactic scale.
 
2012-03-21 10:52:56 PM

SN1987a goes boom: Vaneshi: HalEmmerich: The Prothean VI very briefly puts forward the idea on Thessia that something is driving the Reapers before Kai Leng shows up and ruins your day. But that's it.

As throw away as Haestrom's star really.

ha-ha-guy: The end of the next cycle comes and the species pops up "So umh yeah Repears we planned ahead...." and takes them out.

The Protheans on Ilos were in stasis for centuries, possibly longer as Vigil had serious power supply problems. It takes that long to complete the reap. The Yhag know about galactic civilisation and know, to a degree, what is happening. They've been contaminated but aren't a direct threat to the Reapers... They'll be dealt with on the outbound.

Your character in Mass Effect 4 will be descended from the monkeys you've been shooting at, the ones with the long fuzzy tails.

They never really did explain what was going on with Haestrom's star...after they seemingly made a big fuss over it in ME2.


It was part of the dropped Dark Energy plotline. Reeger(who dies offscreen in ME3, incidently) mentions the scientists had said it was something to do with dark energy if you talk to him at Tali's trial in ME2.
 
2012-03-21 10:57:58 PM

rickycal78: SN1987a goes boom: Vaneshi: HalEmmerich: The Prothean VI very briefly puts forward the idea on Thessia that something is driving the Reapers before Kai Leng shows up and ruins your day. But that's it.

As throw away as Haestrom's star really.

ha-ha-guy: The end of the next cycle comes and the species pops up "So umh yeah Repears we planned ahead...." and takes them out.

The Protheans on Ilos were in stasis for centuries, possibly longer as Vigil had serious power supply problems. It takes that long to complete the reap. The Yhag know about galactic civilisation and know, to a degree, what is happening. They've been contaminated but aren't a direct threat to the Reapers... They'll be dealt with on the outbound.

Your character in Mass Effect 4 will be descended from the monkeys you've been shooting at, the ones with the long fuzzy tails.

They never really did explain what was going on with Haestrom's star...after they seemingly made a big fuss over it in ME2.

One of the larger rumors floating around is that the original story for ME3 was going to have the reapers mention something about that. Something about eezo and dark energy and something about the need to exterminate advanced civilization so that it doesn't ruin the chance for future life. Similar to the current ending but more environmental and on a galactic scale.


That would've been a much better ending.
 
2012-03-21 10:59:08 PM

Fano: My God, Ebert was right!

/rocks fall, everyone dies


haha! I'd say this whole debacle is a good piece of evidence for why Ebert's essentially passive definition of art doesn't really work anymore, if it ever really did.
 
2012-03-21 11:03:31 PM

sprawl15: In turn, companies are pushing pre-orders very, very hard. Adding in DLC or other bonuses for people that pre-order, etc. Plus there's the social element; the majority of the people who buy games couldn't care much what the internet says, they're going to play the new Realisticish Gritty Shooter no matter what. Sure, it's the exact same one as the last Realisticish Gritty Shooter, but who gives a shiat? That one was fun and this one has new maps! And, to be fair, those people have a blast. In a way it's like insulting people for eating at McDonalds...as long as they enjoy it, more power to them.


It's worked so well for Madden for so long, why not apply it to other properties? This is why I will never buy a Battlefield game (among other reasons).
 
2012-03-21 11:07:46 PM

The_Homeless_Guy: Is it just me or has the mass effect 3 staff been playing too much deus ex (any of them)?

In every single deus ex game all the endings are kinda shiatty.



**spoilers follow***

In the first you can:
sacrifice yourself to merge with the AI/machine
keep the evil illuminati going
turn humanity back to the dark ages

in the second you can:
merge everything with the AI/machine, essentially creating the borg
keep the illuminati going
turn humanity back to the dark ages
create chaos so that the cyborgs rise to power/kill everyone else

in the third you can:
support the illuminati
kill everyone at the research station
stop humanities scientific progress/send humanity backwards (though not to the dark ages)
falsely blame/railroad an innocent party (resulting in the only "good" outcome).


Just saying, ME3 doesn't have the monopoly on endings that don't make a lot of sense/games where all the endings kinda suck.


I thought the endings for Deus Ex 1 made sense given the setting, and I'd say they actually implemented them well. Happy endings? Certainly not, but I think that, combined with how popular the game was, just proves that the uproar isn't about the ME ending being "sad"; it's about it being out of left field, slap-dash, and sort of contrary to everything lots of players have played Shep to stand for.
 
2012-03-21 11:08:32 PM
Count me in the "the ending sucked, but the other 99% of the game was great, so I can't get TOO bent out of shape about it" camp.

Sucky ending or no, demanding that someone change the ending to a piece of fiction they made because you personally didn't like it is unbelievably presumptive and self-centered to the point of narcism. It's Bioware's story, not yours, and they have the right to ruin it with a bullshiat Deus Ex Machina "twist" that directly contradicts the series' themes if they want to.

/OK, maybe I'm a little upset about it.
 
2012-03-21 11:09:55 PM

ha-ha-guy: At some level it feels like people are crying because at the end the game didn't let them feel like Super Man.


Yes and no. Here's an unsolicited opinion, take for what it's worth.

There should be an option for Happy Ending, or more realistically "bittersweet" ending. Huge war, billions dead, worlds devastated, nothing happy about that. There are plenty of "little blue babies" fans - fans that want Happily Ever After complete with pregnancies with their romance option. It should be hard as hell to achieve (maybe a solid 10,000 EMS, which means 100% multiplayer necessary for instance), but it should be there. Again, it's an option. They said you could have 16 possible endings, this could be one of them.

This doesn't mean these fans dismiss the endings for that reason. It's a disappointment, but just more fuel to the fire, not the reasoning itself. As others explained better, the endings as they are are inconsistent and nonsensical.

There is precedent in the Mass Effect series for a happy ending. The first game ended with a high note, but right before that was the uncertainty if Shepard survived. The second game was all about beating impossible odds on a suicide mission, or if your crew would survive. There is even a hint at it in this game - the gasp easter egg. The series has been about doing the impossible, beating the odds. For it to change tone completely in the last 15 minutes is jarring, and frankly, feels wrong.
 
2012-03-21 11:11:09 PM
lol, video game plots.

Video game stories have always sucked. It's like some gamers have never read a good book or seen a good movie.
 
2012-03-21 11:12:07 PM
Heron
I think it would have been neat if it were all a plan to escape Universal Heat Death

This was the kind of ending that I was expecting. I mean, throughout the games they hint that there are greater concerns at play. Concerns so great that they necessitate the culling cycles.

Specifically, I was expecting one of these:
1) Young species are not far enough removed from more primitive evolutionary pressures and, if given the opportunity, will eventually produce entropy at a dangerous rate. If they're not culled, they'll expand and use up all the resources in the galaxy (and beyond).

2) There are reaper-reapers out there that the reapers are preparing for. Makes sense, but is boring and predictable.

3) The reapers have no deep plan or purpose. Their creation was an evolutionary/artificial accident. Since reapers reproduce by culling organics, the cycles are a causal necessity of their own existence. That is, given the existence of reapers, the cycles are an eventuality. They'd be exactly what they should be.. vast and ancient intelligences that care little for us lower beings. This works well with the whole cosmic horror vibe that the series has beaten us over the head with.

I was really hoping for (3), and would've been very happy with (1). Heck, I would've been happy had there been no explanation for the reapers. Instead, we get some ontological distinction, out of nowhere, between synthetics and organics that necessitates grand conflict, for which the only solution is to create synthetics that engage in a grand conflict with organics to prevent this from happening. There is some attempt at placation, in that the information of the organics is somehow preserved in the reapers, but this is also nonsense. What do reapers do, aside from reaping? Nothing. The information they preserve serves no purpose, and so the result is indistinguishable from complete destruction. So, we can choose between guaranteed destruction and possible destruction, and the reasonable solution is guaranteed destruction? What problem is this supposed to fix? How is that problem so great that eternal stagnation is preferable? What happens when synthetics in another galaxy wipe out their organic precursors and decide to expand to our galaxy? If reapers can simply wipe them out, then why not.. you know.. just wait till they exist and then wipe them out?

That said, the game was great. My only complaints are like these, where the story either leaves things out or puts new things in without a solid explanation. The whole storyline pacing was a bit off, as it seemed like they were trying to fit too much stuff in.
 
2012-03-21 11:17:06 PM

HalEmmerich: sprawl15: They are absolutely synthetic, did you miss the boss in the Collector Base in ME2?

Legion(in ME2, post Collector base) disagrees.

It explains why Sovereign held the Geth and their worship in contempt and why the Reapers side with organic life, and why they think they're saving it, in their absolutely ridiculous 'us or them' justification for what they do.


They're synthetic. If you pick Destroy, all synthetic life is destroyed. This is: Geth, EDI, and the Reapers. They. Are. Synthetic.
 
2012-03-21 11:19:02 PM

falkone32: That said, the game was great. My only complaints are like these, where the story either leaves things out or puts new things in without a solid explanation. The whole storyline pacing was a bit off, as it seemed like they were trying to fit too much stuff in.


Eh, the pacing didn't bother me too much. Having a video game say "This is happening and you need to take care of it right away!" when in fact you can do it any time you want with the exception of main plot missions are par for the course and has been for years. I will say though that it would have been cool for them to include some kind of repurcussion for not doing a specific mission or two right after you got them, similar to your entire crew getting gooified in ME2 if you didn't get to the suicide mission soon after installing the reaper IFF.
 
2012-03-21 11:51:38 PM

falkone32: Heron
I think it would have been neat if it were all a plan to escape Universal Heat Death

This was the kind of ending that I was expecting. I mean, throughout the games they hint that there are greater concerns at play. Concerns so great that they necessitate the culling cycles.

Specifically, I was expecting one of these:
1) Young species are not far enough removed from more primitive evolutionary pressures and, if given the opportunity, will eventually produce entropy at a dangerous rate. If they're not culled, they'll expand and use up all the resources in the galaxy (and beyond).

2) There are reaper-reapers out there that the reapers are preparing for. Makes sense, but is boring and predictable.

3) The reapers have no deep plan or purpose. Their creation was an evolutionary/artificial accident. Since reapers reproduce by culling organics, the cycles are a causal necessity of their own existence. That is, given the existence of reapers, the cycles are an eventuality. They'd be exactly what they should be.. vast and ancient intelligences that care little for us lower beings. This works well with the whole cosmic horror vibe that the series has beaten us over the head with.

I was really hoping for (3), and would've been very happy with (1). Heck, I would've been happy had there been no explanation for the reapers. Instead, we get some ontological distinction, out of nowhere, between synthetics and organics that necessitates grand conflict, for which the only solution is to create synthetics that engage in a grand conflict with organics to prevent this from happening. There is some attempt at placation, in that the information of the organics is somehow preserved in the reapers, but this is also nonsense. What do reapers do, aside from reaping? Nothing. The information they preserve serves no purpose, and so the result is indistinguishable from complete destruction. So, we can choose between guaranteed destruction and possible destruction, and the ...


Exactly. I don't have anything at all to add to that. Good Job *thumbs up*
 
2012-03-21 11:55:34 PM

falkone32: 2) There are reaper-reapers out there that the reapers are preparing for. Makes sense, but is boring and predictable.


Heh heh. "Who reaps the reapers?"
 
2012-03-22 12:05:28 AM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: falkone32: 2) There are reaper-reapers out there that the reapers are preparing for. Makes sense, but is boring and predictable.


Heh heh. "Who reaps the reapers?"


The wind, the sun, and rain?

/we should be like they are
 
2012-03-22 12:08:07 AM

ha-ha-guy: ...and the player doesn't get to live happily ever after as some god like deity (see Skyrim or WoW where you end up with six trillion titles, although people still ask you to do mundane labors despite that fact...)


Most people don't pick on it so I'm not going to be snide about this, but the Champions thrown up by the Aedra to fix the vexing little conundrums which Elder Scrolls games are built around don't live "happily ever after". Universally, they all die within a year or two of their accomplishing the mission they were created to accomplish. Though there are certain exceptions, I guess. The Champion in TES: Oblivion is hoodwinked into becoming the irretrievably insane Daedra-Lord of Madness for all Eternity (or until some other Daedra/Mortal hero usurps them and they die). There is no mention of the hero of Daggerfall after the Dragon Break, leading some to think he or she was consumed by the event. If you don't get sent off by the Aedra to die ignobly, then getting trapped in an eternal realm of madness or torn apart as reality rewrites itself around you is about the best the Champions of the Elder Scrolls can hope for.
 
2012-03-22 12:08:40 AM

rickycal78: falkone32: That said, the game was great. My only complaints are like these, where the story either leaves things out or puts new things in without a solid explanation. The whole storyline pacing was a bit off, as it seemed like they were trying to fit too much stuff in.

Eh, the pacing didn't bother me too much. Having a video game say "This is happening and you need to take care of it right away!" when in fact you can do it any time you want with the exception of main plot missions are par for the course and has been for years. I will say though that it would have been cool for them to include some kind of repurcussion for not doing a specific mission or two right after you got them, similar to your entire crew getting gooified in ME2 if you didn't get to the suicide mission soon after installing the reaper IFF.


They did. Most missions will kill themselves after the next Priority: * mission as the reapers move in. Most (but not all) Citadel sidequests will disappear after Priority:Tuchanka (because their givers get shot). If you don't do Grissom Academy, Jack will get turned into a Phantom, and you'll have to face her in Kronos Station.
 
2012-03-22 12:12:51 AM

sprawl15: Yeah, I'm just trying to take the events at face value


Specifically to Mr. Mann here, but also to anyone who defends the ending as both "meant literally" and "good:"

Please explain the following points. After getting hit by Harbinger's laser:

1)When you wake up (at least, in my ending), your squad members are gone, nowhere in sight. Where did they go? How is this possible? You can tell for comms and Harbinger's departure that your blackout was momentary.
2)Your gun has infinite ammo. What's up with that?
3)Why does Harbinger leave you alive? It's established he can sense your presence.
4)Why does Harbinger leave? "Guard this beam? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances." - Grand Moff Harbinger
5)There is clearly only one way in to the control room / you can see as far as where Anderson reports to be during the sequence. Where is he? How does he beat you there? Why can't you see him ahead of you?
6) Where does the blood all over your arm go, after going up to see the Starchild? It is COVERED in wet blood, and then suddenly not.
7) Why would Joker or Cortez extract the team, when everyone agrees that getting to the beam is the only chance? How does he have time? He has to go to separate hot zones and do fighting extractions on the whole team.
8)Why are they at FTL speed? Are they just jumping from Earth, or are they in a Mass Relay jump?
9) How did they know to go to FTL speed? Its not working and not working and not working, and then suddenly, it activates. It is established that this explosion goes at a rate much FTL (though scenes do contradict each other) --- therefore, it will have hit everyone in the battle before they are aware of the explosion. Even assuming Joker hit the FTL in a panic before the shockwave hit, the nearest star to Earth is about 1/3 of a day at the Normandy's FTL speed... so how the hell did they reach a garden world (that is uninhabited)?
10) Your final-mission squadmates get out on the jungle planet. WHAT THE FARK!? How are they alive? They abandon Shepard? His LI and his best friend? They must have been really badly injured (and oddly injured, to be unable to help Shepard, but able to escape Harbinger and still make an extraction shuttle). Oh, no, they're both healthy a half-hour later when they get out of the Normandy.
11) Shepard wakes up, but buried in rubble that is clearly not the Citadel.

I've left out "odd" things that support indoctrination theory, since people want to take this literally. Instead, these are the continuity problems I have identified in the ending. I only noticed the squadmate/Normandy at FTL continuity problem DURING my playthrough, but it was enough to make me wonder WTF bioware was doing. The rest, I have seen since.

Clearly this is lazy writing, ranging from minor (blood on the arm) to hugely major (your dead squadmates hopping out of the Normandy on a magic garden world).

Personally, I think what happened was "scrapped hallucination ending meets looming deadline." The reason I am upset is twofold: 1) The ending puts Shepard out of character, and Diabolus ex Machina, and 2) Continuity problems that should never have made it into the game riddling the ending so jarringly as to remove the amazing immersion everything UP TO the starchild had wrought.


/Seriously, I was riveted by the game, but when the starchild starting explaining synthesis, I shift-F1ed and messaged my friend "a new DNA? WTF is this shiat?"
 
2012-03-22 12:22:16 AM

meyerkev: rickycal78: falkone32: That said, the game was great. My only complaints are like these, where the story either leaves things out or puts new things in without a solid explanation. The whole storyline pacing was a bit off, as it seemed like they were trying to fit too much stuff in.

Eh, the pacing didn't bother me too much. Having a video game say "This is happening and you need to take care of it right away!" when in fact you can do it any time you want with the exception of main plot missions are par for the course and has been for years. I will say though that it would have been cool for them to include some kind of repurcussion for not doing a specific mission or two right after you got them, similar to your entire crew getting gooified in ME2 if you didn't get to the suicide mission soon after installing the reaper IFF.

They did. Most missions will kill themselves after the next Priority: * mission as the reapers move in. Most (but not all) Citadel sidequests will disappear after Priority:Tuchanka (because their givers get shot). If you don't do Grissom Academy, Jack will get turned into a Phantom, and you'll have to face her in Kronos Station.


No shiat? Huh, I just did the side missions out of habit before doing the main missions. I'd never heard about anyone encountering that. TMYK I guess.
 
2012-03-22 12:23:57 AM
Having not played the series, and not intending to do so, I just have to know:

How many of these people comment on the blogs of their favorite authors when they don't like the author's ending?
 
2012-03-22 12:34:12 AM

rickycal78: meyerkev: rickycal78: falkone32: That said, the game was great. My only complaints are like these, where the story either leaves things out or puts new things in without a solid explanation. The whole storyline pacing was a bit off, as it seemed like they were trying to fit too much stuff in.

Eh, the pacing didn't bother me too much. Having a video game say "This is happening and you need to take care of it right away!" when in fact you can do it any time you want with the exception of main plot missions are par for the course and has been for years. I will say though that it would have been cool for them to include some kind of repurcussion for not doing a specific mission or two right after you got them, similar to your entire crew getting gooified in ME2 if you didn't get to the suicide mission soon after installing the reaper IFF.

They did. Most missions will kill themselves after the next Priority: * mission as the reapers move in. Most (but not all) Citadel sidequests will disappear after Priority:Tuchanka (because their givers get shot). If you don't do Grissom Academy, Jack will get turned into a Phantom, and you'll have to face her in Kronos Station.

No shiat? Huh, I just did the side missions out of habit before doing the main missions. I'd never heard about anyone encountering that. TMYK I guess.


Yeah. Just for lols, I turned on Narrative mode (very, very hilarious BTW. 2 shots drops ANYTHING, you can skip pretty much skip 90% of the combat by running past it, and I walked through a crossfire of 3 turrets), and did a "Just the stories/How screwed can I get" runthrough. Ended up killing Eve, killing Wrex, killing Kaiden, saving the indoctrinated Rachni queen*, not defusing the bomb, leaving Koris to die, saving the Quarians (Geth are worth less, but I hadn't seen drunk Tali yet), and doing all the "You are screwed" Citadel Defense Force options I could find.

*Actually a tie. Grunt plus Aralahk Company are worth 100 points, and the indoctrinated Rachni queen kills 100 points worth.

/Another good one. Do the Tuchanka: Lost Turian Platoon one, and NOT the bomb one, and the bomb goes off, removing your (300 point) Krogan Clans War Asset. Don't do the Rachni side mission and kill Wrex, and you can ELIMINATE all Krogan War Assets. You can get under 3000 War Assets (before readiness is factored in) if you really try.
 
2012-03-22 12:36:27 AM

LazarusLong42: Having not played the series, and not intending to do so, I just have to know:

How many of these people comment on the blogs of their favorite authors when they don't like the author's ending?


Not knowing what you like, I will take a shot in the dark. What if, at the end of LOTR - ROTK, Boromir showed up to help Frodo out. No explanation, no "OMG Boromir, but you're dead!" Just mute acceptance that Boromir was here, like he was supposed to be.

Also, during the last battle, all the named characters ran away sometime vaguely in the middle of it. Certainly before the thing was decided.

Then, before you find out why they ran away, or what destroying the one ring REALLY means, the book ends.

They aren't perfect analogies, but a lot of fans of the series up to that point would be pretty angry that the book ended (a) so abruptly and with so many loose ends, and (b) that there was such uncharacteristic behavior and general continuity issues right at the end. A few might go NUTS and threaten to sue, because they have quotes of Tolkien saying that no loose ends would be left (and these people are nutjobs), but there would be a sizable and understandable (imo) movement among fans for Tolkien to fix the continuity issues and at least explain the uncharacteristic behavior at the end of his work.

I dunno, it doesn't seem so far-fetched or weird.
 
2012-03-22 12:43:36 AM
img845.imageshack.us

I'd accept this as being a better ending myself.
 
2012-03-22 01:12:20 AM

LazarusLong42: Having not played the series, and not intending to do so, I just have to know:

How many of these people comment on the blogs of their favorite authors when they don't like the author's ending?



How many of our favorite authors call us multiple times per chapter up and ask what path the character chooses next?

/I'll be in the Cave of Time
 
2012-03-22 01:24:58 AM
To summarize: "We don't care how you feel about the ending! We already got your money!" *makes it rain with $100 bills and rolls around on a carpet of strippers*
 
2012-03-22 01:40:28 AM
It's a video game, people.
 
2012-03-22 01:44:47 AM

croesius: [img845.imageshack.us image 430x235]

I'd accept this as being a better ending myself.


So...synthesis with our Feline Overlords?

i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-03-22 01:50:55 AM
Reading this thread I've come up with some ways to reconcile some of these issues.
1) Sovereign and his bravado - Maybe he was just a huge jerk and that's why they left him in the galaxy instead of out with the rest of them. Could also be why he doesn't know about the Catalyst, he's a bruiser not a brain and he didn't need to know.
2) Harbinger- Harbinger seems more in tune to the idea of being converted to a Reaper as an honor akin to ascendance.
3) The Human Reaper - They started the new Reaper before the invasion because Sovereign screwed up. They had the Collectors start the process and that Reaper would open the gate for them. Since it was destroyed they had to do things the hard way, which really didn't seem to slow them down that much.
4) The Catalyst - Depending on what you can believe he might control the Reapers or at least thinks he does. Through the Crucible some terrible abilities become open to him. I'm not sure if he made the Crucible or not. I'm not sure if he was an echo of the creation of the Reapers or not. I'm thinking cutting some exposition here hurt.
5) The only part of the ending I don't like at all is that the Mass Relay Network can't be saved at all. That really makes for a crappy universe if they plan a sequel.
 
2012-03-22 02:08:12 AM
Listen to yourselves.

YOU ARE INDOCTRINATED.

Break Their Hold! (new window)
 
2012-03-22 02:09:51 AM

LazarusLong42: Having not played the series, and not intending to do so, I just have to know:

How many of these people comment on the blogs of their favorite authors when they don't like the author's ending?


If a book series took me over 100 hours to read, and was one of the best reads I've ever had in my life, and at the end the characters started acting out of character and teleporting around the game universe willy-nilly.... Yeah I'd ask a big "WTF?"

Would I comment on their blog? I don't know. But then again I didn't comment on Bioware's blog.

That said, I can't think of a book series, or even a single book, that screwed the pooch like this. Movies, sure, but not books. Books are generally one-person (or sometimes two who are working very closely) and leaps in in-story logic just don't happen. Especially not at the very end after a lot of great storytelling.
 
2012-03-22 05:34:52 AM
The thing that bugs me about ME2 and ME3, storywise, is the fact that all these things have to fit together. No one who isn't involve with Jack can really know or react to what happens to her. All the different threads are almost totally separate, even if some of them cross at certain points, 'cuz depending on what you do, your stories are going to be at different stages or will have come to separate resolutions.

That said, the game had to end on the same note for just about everyone; no way they're making cinematics for absolutely every path you could go through, or even a tenth of the paths you could have taken, unless they went with the 'one piece of concept art plus text/voiced description per outcome of quest' route, which would have been stilted and probably just as bad.

I was dead certain the ending would be absolute trash from the get-go; what are you going to do that puts a lid on every possible thing folks could have gotten to?

Samey bullshiat.

It's the only thing that'll fit over all the crazy machinations that go on in the ME universe. The threads are all necessarily separate (with little nods and references to one another to make them feel less so without really affecting the game, as far as I've seen) and at the end you have to glue 'em all into one homogeneous lump.

This is not even -talking- about the fact that I have no desire whatsoever to A) start using Origin or B) play in play-doh texture mode with shiatty resolution. I think the thing that put a bad taste in my mouth about this entire affair is having to split my library between the huge already-existing Steam library I have (including ME and ME2) and Origin for ME3 and any other EA game that comes out in the foreseeable future. I have no desire to use a less polished, less intuitive, slower-downloading service.

And I -really- wanna play the multiplayer. I maxed out all my classes in the demo. I'm interested as Hell in playing but I'm not doing it on Origin; I wish EA would just work their shiat with Steam out (since Steam tossed them for what amounts to a breach of contract) and farking let me have BF3 and ME3 on the delivery platform I have the previous games on.
 
2012-03-22 06:52:40 AM

SN1987a goes boom: Bhruic: a9735z:
Yea a near 25% loss since November is nothing. Absolutely nothing. Pay no attention to the stunningly shiattastic company stock price.

That might be relevant if the game was released in November, but it wasn't. It was released at the beginning of March.

Precisely.


Decided to completely ignore SWTOR then eh? Since November it's been SWTOR and then ME3 and the price has consistently fallen.

Good lord are you trying to white knight EA.
 
2012-03-22 07:11:47 AM

a9735z:
Good lord are you trying to white knight EA.


Remember EA make a shiat ton of different games either internally or via wholly owned subsidiaries (i.e. Bioware). You end up with PC gamers white knighting the publisher because they are, in their own way, genuinely scared that EA will go "Fark you, we're abandoning PC no ports no nothing." Console gamers like their Madden's & NHL's, they don't want to see them go away even though some of their brethren are irked at the "same graphics, same controls, new roster £60 please" releases that have been happening.

So yes you will quite often find people white knighting organisations like EA.
 
2012-03-22 08:05:22 AM

Vaneshi: a9735z:
Good lord are you trying to white knight EA.

Remember EA make a shiat ton of different games either internally or via wholly owned subsidiaries (i.e. Bioware). You end up with PC gamers white knighting the publisher because they are, in their own way, genuinely scared that EA will go "Fark you, we're abandoning PC no ports no nothing." Console gamers like their Madden's & NHL's, they don't want to see them go away even though some of their brethren are irked at the "same graphics, same controls, new roster £60 please" releases that have been happening.

So yes you will quite often find people white knighting organisations like EA.


EA refusing to make any more PC ports is not a threat, it's a benevolent gesture.

The thing that has me completely baffled is how someone can't see the correlation between SWTOR, ME3 and their stock price. The white-knighters all seem to completely ignore the fact that the Q1 2012 report for EA that came out only includes up to Dec. of 2011, and no further which means that it only includes sales numbers for the game, not re-subs, which are its lifeblood. EA and Bioware's big title winds up being a big turd MMO-wise (Some SW die-hards will enjoy it simply because it's SW), the stock tanks since their "million subscribers" is simply speculation since it doesn't make any mention in their earnings report of actual renewed subscriptions. It's a big deal for a title that cost at least $200 Million (and some argue as high as $300 Million when all the marketing and cross-promotion is included). Not to mention how freaking big of a bite Lucas takes out of it all.

I mean anyone can see that the server populations are pretty low, hell they even have online trackers. Sure the argument can be made that they simply have too many servers and haven't merged, but they won't. People can't transfer characters to other servers to play with friends and EA won't merge servers this early without being seen as weak.

Then all the white-knighters decided to screech about how ME3 would be the saving grace, that it'll send the stock price rocketing back to Fall 2011 levels. And what happens? The game is mediocre, the ending is widely panned (even hated) by the community. The ending nonsense and lack of "player choice" inclusion gets leaked before the game is even released, with the audio files and backdrops for the ending posted on YouTube quite a bit before release. Tons of people buy the game anyway. Except suddenly the loyal knob gobblers all realize they've been duped and start spamming the internet about how crap the game is and that it's a waste of $60, that the DLC not being removed content was a lie, etc.

So what happens? EA slashes the price on its biggest title (aside from SWTOR) in the last few years by 33% less than 2 weeks after release. That is a big deal for a company whose stock seems to be rapidly approaching single-digit territory.

/and I reiterate that blind loyalty to a consumer electronics company or software company is for rubes and shut-ins.
 
2012-03-22 08:15:10 AM
I have not finished my ME3 game yet. I had too much to do up until now, but hopefully this week I will see what all the fuss is about. That being said...I think artistic speaking this game really invites several endings...good , bad and in between. Instead of just a final outcome that could be the artistic vision, or strategy IMO. I'd welcome one ending were all is well and I settled down with my Quarian girlfriend (making her, her own world for her as Liara said about it in the Shadowbroker download).... I'd be OK if it was a hopeless battle all along

I am use to not getting a happy ending. I can be happy for a good ending, even if that is so Disney/hollywood. I still am so happy with the journey so far. Again I have no idea what the ending is at this point, and I won't be reading here because I just don't want that spoiled for me. Of course its not a perfect game, and all of us could come up with what would work for us....but hey what the hey
 
2012-03-22 08:27:22 AM

a9735z: The thing that has me completely baffled is how someone can't see the correlation between SWTOR, ME3 and their stock price.


And what baffles me is why you continually want to lump ME3 in to their stock price for November. Want to blame SWTOR? Go ahead. I'd probably agree with you. But when you try and use ME3 as a reason for why their stock price dropped 3 months before it came out, well, that's just idiotic.
 
2012-03-22 08:30:36 AM

TheZorker: Listen to yourselves.

YOU ARE INDOCTRINATED.

Break Their Hold! (new window)


Yes, thank you, we all know about indoctrination theory. Given information in the 'Final Hours of Mass Effect 3' app and statement's Bioware has made since it's quite clear that that was never the plan, as attractive an idea as it may be. They even specifically mention in the app that sequences where Shepard was going to be fully indoctrinated for real ended up being cut, maybe that's where some of the 'clues' come from.

If that's what they choose to go with whenever they announce what they're up to in April, great. Otherwise face it, it's dead. And without what comes after it's still a pretty crappy ending, all things considered.
 
2012-03-22 09:08:54 AM

LazarusLong42: Having not played the series, and not intending to do so, I just have to know:

How many of these people comment on the blogs of their favorite authors when they don't like the author's ending?


You kidding? We're talking about Fark here. Until A Dance of Dragons was released last year, this site was a hotbed of angry GRRM fan-hate, and it was nothing compared to what was going on at his -moderated- LJ site. So I'd say lots of the people here do indeed let the authors they like hear about it when they don't like what those authors have written.
 
2012-03-22 09:20:49 AM

spamdog: lol, video game plots.

Video game stories have always sucked. It's like some gamers have never read a good book or seen a good movie.


Funny you should mention books and movies. The ME games are pretty average except for the fantastic story. The medium doesn't matter, if you throw out the entirety of a long story in the last five minutes, the last five pages, or the last five scenes, people are going to be angry.

I don't think they should change the ending really, but it raised a lot of new questions that were never answered. That would be fine if there was going to be more games, but they intended this to be the end of Shepherd's story. If they're going to end his/her story, that's fine, but they better wrap up all the questions.
 
2012-03-22 09:21:13 AM

Heron: LazarusLong42: Having not played the series, and not intending to do so, I just have to know:

How many of these people comment on the blogs of their favorite authors when they don't like the author's ending?

You kidding? We're talking about Fark here. Until A Dance of Dragons was released last year, this site was a hotbed of angry GRRM fan-hate, and it was nothing compared to what was going on at his -moderated- LJ site. So I'd say lots of the people here do indeed let the authors they like hear about it when they don't like what those authors have written.


Difference here being it's a different kind of investment, as people have been shaping the course of events to an extent, over 5 years, 3 games and ~100 hours of gameplay. Doesn't justify stupid crap like complaining to the FTC, sure...
 
2012-03-22 09:32:45 AM

Jack Kerras: I wish EA would just work their shiat with Steam out (since Steam tossed them for what amounts to a breach of contract) and farking let me have BF3 and ME3 on the delivery platform I have the previous games on.


I don't play many EA games, but this sort of thing really irks me as it infects all of corporate America. I don't know what they've been teaching in business schools for the last 30 years, but for some reason it seems like every executive in this country sees farking over their counter-parties as a laudable end in itself. When you make a contract or agreement with another company, farking see it through god-dammit. Play by the rules and be a good partner! Why the hell throw away millions of dollars on litigation and building from scratch your own service capacity when you can just hire a reliable service company like Valve's Steam to provide it, live up to your obligations, and keep all those millions as profit? A big reason why corporate America is so farked up right now is because of this pointless and self-destructive pursuit of every last drop of marginal utility.
 
2012-03-22 09:54:09 AM

LikeTheSearchEngine: Specifically to Mr. Mann here, but also to anyone who defends the ending as both "meant literally" and "good:"

Please explain the following points. After getting hit by Harbinger's laser:

1)When you wake up (at least, in my ending), your squad members are gone, nowhere in sight. Where did they go? How is this possible? You can tell for comms and Harbinger's departure that your blackout was momentary.
2)Your gun has infinite ammo. What's up with that?
3)Why does Harbinger leave you alive? It's established he can sense your presence.
4)Why does Harbinger leave? "Guard this beam? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances." - Grand Moff Harbinger
5)There is clearly only one way in to the control room / you can see as far as where Anderson reports to be during the sequence. Where is he? How does he beat you there? Why can't you see him ahead of you?
6) Where does the blood all over your arm go, after going up to see the Starchild? It is COVERED in wet blood, and then suddenly not.
7) Why would Joker or Cortez extract the team, when everyone agrees that getting to the beam is the only chance? How does he have time? He has to go to separate hot zones and do fighting extractions on the whole team.
8)Why are they at FTL speed? Are they just jumping from Earth, or are they in a Mass Relay jump?
9) How did they know to go to FTL speed? Its not working and not working and not working, and then suddenly, it activates. It is established that this explosion goes at a rate much FTL (though scenes do contradict each other) --- therefore, it will have hit everyone in the battle before they are aware of the explosion. Even assuming Joker hit the FTL in a panic before the shockwave hit, the nearest star to Earth is about 1/3 of a day at the Normandy's FTL speed... so how the hell did they reach a garden world (that is uninhabited)?
10) Your final-mission squadmates get out on the jungle planet. WHAT THE FARK!? How are they alive? They abandon Shepard? His LI an ...


Apologies in advance: I wrote up a big answer, lost internet @ home, went to work where I have internet, but I have to use this crappy keyboard. So there will probably be typos & such.

1. With a low enough asset rating, you actually will see your squadmates here. Dead. I assume that with a high enough score, they're blown clear of the explosion or something.
2. The same thing happens at the start of the game, when you're escaping with Anderson, until it's scripted to run out of ammo while fighting the husks.
3&4. The alliance believes everyone is dead or nearly dead. Presumably, harbinger believes the same. As for why does he leave...perhaps he's going to try & take down the normandy? Obviously, I'm guessing here: as I said, I felt there were execution problems, and you're finding some that I found as well.
5. The keepers are rearranging the citadel through this sequence. Anderson says the walls were moving. It's mentioned earlier that the keepers have an annoying habit of rearranging the architecture on the wards, and seem to be controlled by the citadel itself. Presumably, this is required for the crucible to dock.
6. I think a lot more time passes over the ending sequence than most people do. Specifically on the magic elevator ride. Remember, the star child tells you to wake up.
More to the point, I'm perfectly ok with a theory that says Shepard effectively dies, THEN rides the magic elevator. It requires some sort of afterlife theory, but I see no other obvious contradictions.
7. Again, I think there has been a larger passage of time than most people. Presumably, the beam has been shut down at some point. Here's my idea of a rough timeline of events:

Harbinger's beam hits, Shepard gets burned, his squad gets blown away.
For some reason, they cannot get to the beam from where they are (debris in the way, bunch of marauders, whatever. Again, this is a problem of execution)
Anderson reaches the console. This shuts down the beam.
Cortez finishes repairing the shuttle. Picks up the squad (which is made easier because Harbinger has left). Returns to the Normandy (which may be under attack by Harbinger).
Shep/Anderson deal with ILM. The rest carries straight from the end, with the exception of the Normandy...
8. I don't know what they're doing. I don't think it's a Mass Relay jump: if they could jump out in Arrival seconds before that Relay was forcibly destroyed, I think they could jump out of a relay that's about to be self-destructed. So, it's standard FTL, and they're probably fleeing either Harbinger or the gigantic explosion coming from the crucible.
9. The explosion speed IS problematic. The best I can come up with is that it has an exponential rate of acceleration. Starts out spreading slowly (after all, the soldiers on earth can see it approaching), then it gets fast enough to over take a ship in FTL. As for the world they're on, no clue. Again, execution. Though I'm trying to think...can we definitely rule out that they're on a moon of Jupiter or Saturn?
10. Ok, fark has cut off the quote here, so let's try again:

LikeTheSearchEngine: 10) Your final-mission squadmates get out on the jungle planet. WHAT THE FARK!? How are they alive? They abandon Shepard? His LI and his best friend? They must have been really badly injured (and oddly injured, to be unable to help Shepard, but able to escape Harbinger and still make an extraction shuttle). Oh, no, they're both healthy a half-hour later when they get out of the Normandy.
11) Shepard wakes up, but buried in rubble that is clearly not the Citadel.


10. Again, passage of time. Though I have not heard one way or the other if the dead squad members from 1 can be seen on the jungle planet. THAT would be a contradiction I can't fix. Easy way to test it, too: import a ME2 save where the only survivor from the suicide mission is Morinth (you'll be forced to kill her in banshee form in London) & you blew up the base, then kill the Virmire survivor on the citadel. Never wake up Javik. That leaves you with 3 possible squad members: Vega, EDI & Liara. Take Vega & Liara with you on a low asset run. They should be dead from harbinger. You'll be forced to choose the destroy option, presumably killing EDI. At this point, EVERY POSSIBLE SQUAD MEMBER FROM EVERY GAME IS DEAD. So...who is on the jungle planet, other than Joker? Dr Chakwas & Traynor?

I'm planning on doing that run, btw, but it'll take awhile. I'm sure someone else will do it first.
11. I don't think it's Shepard. As far as I know, the armor in that scene is always standard black N7 armor. But my Shep was wearing Collector armor, or Cerberus armor, or...

Most likely, that's our sequel hook. It's some other N7 marine. Which, I admit, is weird.
 
2012-03-22 09:58:19 AM

a9735z: EA refusing to make any more PC ports is not a threat, it's a benevolent gesture.


LOL. I know exactly what you mean and I do kinda agree.

SWTOR is... Interesting as far as games go, it's actually pretty good, nice progression and yeah, I paid for the client and a month or so's additional subscription and don't feel ripped off. But at no point did it feel like an MMO, ya know? In something like EVE I can go to a trade hub and see hundreds if not thousands of people flying around and getting up to things (often mischief but hey that's EVE for you)... Even on release date the Imperial Fleet on my EU server was largely empty and never felt like a busy/bustling hub.

It should of been a single player/non-MMO multiplayer RPGS for £40 with some of its MMO grind turned down/removed and it'd of been brilliant. As an MMO goes... No not really.

If anything the share price would be reflecting Battlefield 3 and other 2011 titles not being well received, possibly some downward movement due to 2011's hottest title being delayed (ME3) but nothing to do with how the title was received by the public.
 
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