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(NPR)   The Supreme Court is about to decide on whether a man can go to prison for insulting Dick Cheney   (npr.org) divider line 141
    More: Scary, American Democracy, Dick Cheney, vice presidents, jail, Virgil Reichle  
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17987 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Mar 2012 at 12:20 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-21 12:42:18 PM
It is kind of refresh to see the other agents there testifying against him (at least of them). Also:

But two other agents who actually witnessed the encounter between Howards and Cheney, did not support Reichle's account of threatening behavior, and they said Reichle had asked them to change their reports to comport with Reichle's version of events. Reichle has since been transferred to Guam.

Well, someone farked up and got punted the hell away from anything important.
 
2012-03-21 12:43:08 PM
This one time at piano camp . . .
 
2012-03-21 12:43:54 PM
A better question for the Court to answer would be how, in the absence of a presidential pardon, does a man who freely admits to violating the War Crimes Act avoids prosecution.
 
2012-03-21 12:43:55 PM

Rev. Skarekroe: This actually happened? How did I not hear about it at the time?


Liberal media.
 
2012-03-21 12:44:00 PM
I am of two minds about this.

First of all, absolutely, Secret Service agents should be able to be sued. If they had smashed his face in, they should pay.

On the other hand, in this particular case, I don't have a problem with what they did. He went up to the VP, said something inflamatory, left, and came back ten minutes later looking anxious. I would expect the Secret Service to be somewhat concerned about what was happening. He was thrown in jail, and the charges were eventually dropped.

I'm not having a problem with this.
 
2012-03-21 12:45:13 PM
Transferred to Guam? Uh, yeah, that would seem to indicate that the agent in question is in the wrong. I don't expect the feds to admit it, but I don't think you get transferred to Guam for doing excellent work in the field. Esp. if your previous gig was protecting the Vice President.
 
2012-03-21 12:46:13 PM
just to make this clear, you're a dick, dick, and you have shiat for brains. now go get all secret servicey on me, you worthless punk.
 
2012-03-21 12:47:41 PM
Surprised Cheney didn't just shoot him in the face.
 
2012-03-21 12:48:18 PM

The Jami Turman Fan Club: I am of two minds about this.

First of all, absolutely, Secret Service agents should be able to be sued. If they had smashed his face in, they should pay.

On the other hand, in this particular case, I don't have a problem with what they did. He went up to the VP, said something inflamatory, left, and came back ten minutes later looking anxious. I would expect the Secret Service to be somewhat concerned about what was happening. He was thrown in jail, and the charges were eventually dropped.

I'm not having a problem with this.


Yeah, god-forbid anyone should be anxious when they lose track of their child.
Face it, the arresting agent was an overzealous dick who got pissed at something the guy said, so he arrested him on false charges. This is further made evident by the fact that none of the other agents there agree with this douche, and that he asked them to commit a crime and change their reports to match his fabricated one.
 
2012-03-21 12:48:20 PM
piano camp

This was the only worthwhile thing to come out of this article. Apparently it's a thing. I did not know.

As for whether or not public servants should have immunity from lawsuits, I have no idea why this would be a thing.

The answer is "no" and anyone who isn't lacking a neocortex should damn well know why. There, I've shortened your article considerably, whilst not lending credence to pants-on-head stupidity.
 
2012-03-21 12:48:34 PM

eurotrader: The question is when are overzealous police going to be held accountable for abusing the rights of people and then lying about it to cover up their illegal behavior. Agent Reichle's action of asking other agents to lying on their reports is a crime and not only should Reichle be fire he should be on his way to jail for breaking the law, it would serve as a statement to police in the US that abusing power and lying will not be tolerated and will have repercussions.


Yep, Reichle's abuse of power is the biggest problem here.

Plaintiff made a bad decision in actually touching Cheney (I can see the Secret Service dudes getting jumpy at that), but the freedom we're supposed to be guaranteed in the USA means that we can say whatever the fark we like to criticize politicians in a public situation like this.

If it were Biden or Obama or anyone else my opinion would not change.
 
2012-03-21 12:52:50 PM
The fact that Mr.Howard did not find himself flat on his back the moment he touched Cheney speaks tons.

Mr Reichle, please repeat after me:

The King Is Not Above The Law.
The King Is Not Above The Law.
The King Is Not Above The Law.
The King Is Not Above The Law.
The King Is Not Above The Law.
The King Is Not Above The Law.
The King Is Not Above The Law.
The King Is Not Above The Law.
The King Is Not Above The Law.
The King Is Not Above The Law.
The King Is Not Above The Law.
The King Is Not Above The Law.
The King Is Not Above The Law.

Now write it on the blackboard 500 times.
 
2012-03-21 12:53:33 PM

EnviroDude: Just like the people that shouted "you suck" to Clinton that were arrested, this guy did nothing wrong. I hope he countersues US and wins enough money to retire.


He did sue. This is his lawsuit we are talking about. A countersuit would be filed by the defendents in this lawsuit.

You really are just a grade A "both sides are bad" moron aren't you.
 
2012-03-21 12:54:13 PM

Giltric: Yells at VP and pats him on the shoulder.......then is seen in the vicinity of the VP again at a later time......

I don't care if you're yelling at Biden or Cheney....don't make contact with anyone unless you want them to pursue charges of battery or assault....especially people with an SS protection detail.


/I would have fired my detail for allowing someone to get close enough to pat me on the shoulder.
//or at least posted them to Nigeria for counterfeiting investigations


Yells =/= tells the VP his policies are disgusting. It's perfectly possible to deliver a scathing indictment of the Bush administration without raising your voice above a whisper. This was a meet and greet btw, so people were coming up to Cheney and shaking his hand. The fact that the guy was allowed to leave the scene and wasn't arrested until about 10 minutes after the fact means it was neither assault nor battery.
 
2012-03-21 12:54:49 PM
This is nothing. A couple of years ago I was walking outside the White House when suddenly I had to "go" really bad. I jumped the White House fence and started running for the front door when a half a billion Secret Service Agents tackled me. Needless to say I crapped my pants and when I tried to explain it to them but they just laughed sent me to jail. The one good thing about jail is that if you have to "go" really bad, the toilet is no more than 5 feet away from you.
 
2012-03-21 12:55:37 PM
It's amazing that we have a former administration that cannot leave the country for fear of being arrested for war crimes (Bush, Cheney, and Rummy have all had to flee arrest), but we ignore it and arrest those who speak out against it. Gee, we're not Authoritarian at all.
 
2012-03-21 12:57:04 PM
bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com

Was she taken into custody?
 
2012-03-21 12:58:46 PM

Krieghund: ginandbacon: That does it. I've been meaning to favorite you forever and I'm finally doing it! Thanks for all the lulz.

Diogenes: I've had you favorited for awhile now.

cman: Am I still on your ignore list?

Jesus, what is this, middle school?

If you like me circle one:
___Yes______No___


/I kid, I kid


Sometimes the CJing spills over from TFD.

Work is crushing my soul. I'll take all the positive feedback I can get these days.
 
2012-03-21 12:59:02 PM
10 minutes is not a spli second decision you morons
 
2012-03-21 12:59:41 PM

PowerSlacker: We have Secret Service agents in Guam?


We do now.
 
2012-03-21 01:00:17 PM

redmid17: Giltric: Yells at VP and pats him on the shoulder.......then is seen in the vicinity of the VP again at a later time......

I don't care if you're yelling at Biden or Cheney....don't make contact with anyone unless you want them to pursue charges of battery or assault....especially people with an SS protection detail.


/I would have fired my detail for allowing someone to get close enough to pat me on the shoulder.
//or at least posted them to Nigeria for counterfeiting investigations

Yells =/= tells the VP his policies are disgusting. It's perfectly possible to deliver a scathing indictment of the Bush administration without raising your voice above a whisper. This was a meet and greet btw, so people were coming up to Cheney and shaking his hand. The fact that the guy was allowed to leave the scene and wasn't arrested until about 10 minutes after the fact means it was neither assault nor battery.


No it means they gave him a pass....like a cop who gives you a warning for doing 85 in a 55.....when that officer hears a cop down the road calling in your delta lima again for doing 96 in a 55 they tend to make things harder for you since you weren't that appreciative of being given the pass the first time.
 
2012-03-21 01:00:33 PM
If wanting to tell Little Dicky to go screw himself is a crime, I should be on death row.
 
2012-03-21 01:00:41 PM
But two other agents who actually witnessed the encounter between Howards and Cheney, did not support Reichle's account of threatening behavior, and they said Reichle had asked them to change their reports to comport with Reichle's version of events. Reichle has since been transferred to Guam.

I think that sums up the government's level of confidence in this fellow.
 
2012-03-21 01:01:11 PM
I applaud subby's use of the Scary tag.
 
2012-03-21 01:03:03 PM
What about the guy yelling 'fark you Mr. Cheney' as he was being interview on CNN, touring Louisiana after Katrina?
 
2012-03-21 01:03:19 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Gambling odds:

I will bet anyone here one year's Totalfark subscription that Clarence Thomas will vote to send this man to jail.

Any takers?


no way i'm taking that bet, he's black
 
2012-03-21 01:06:00 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: Transferred to Guam? Uh, yeah, that would seem to indicate that the agent in question is in the wrong. I don't expect the feds to admit it, but I don't think you get transferred to Guam for doing excellent work in the field. Esp. if your previous gig was protecting the Vice President.



i105.photobucket.com
What punishment might look like.
 
2012-03-21 01:06:07 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: Transferred to Guam? Uh, yeah, that would seem to indicate that the agent in question is in the wrong. I don't expect the feds to admit it, but I don't think you get transferred to Guam for doing excellent work in the field. Esp. if your previous gig was protecting the Vice President.


Exactly. "Reichle has since been transferred to Guam." actually gave me a bit of a chortle. Good on the other agents for sticking to their own recollections rather than backing Reichle.

Also, I'm all for the ability to sue for wrongful arrest. Arrests that involve a gray area or reasonable action should sort themselves out/get dismissed; abusive or unwarranted arrests shouldn't be protected from lawsuits. That said, touching Cheney in any way was stupid. Also, Cheney cooties! Gross.
 
2012-03-21 01:06:26 PM

Giltric: redmid17: Giltric: Yells at VP and pats him on the shoulder.......then is seen in the vicinity of the VP again at a later time......

I don't care if you're yelling at Biden or Cheney....don't make contact with anyone unless you want them to pursue charges of battery or assault....especially people with an SS protection detail.


/I would have fired my detail for allowing someone to get close enough to pat me on the shoulder.
//or at least posted them to Nigeria for counterfeiting investigations

Yells =/= tells the VP his policies are disgusting. It's perfectly possible to deliver a scathing indictment of the Bush administration without raising your voice above a whisper. This was a meet and greet btw, so people were coming up to Cheney and shaking his hand. The fact that the guy was allowed to leave the scene and wasn't arrested until about 10 minutes after the fact means it was neither assault nor battery.

No it means they gave him a pass....like a cop who gives you a warning for doing 85 in a 55.....when that officer hears a cop down the road calling in your delta lima again for doing 96 in a 55 they tend to make things harder for you since you weren't that appreciative of being given the pass the first time.


If Cheney considered it assault or battery, the dude would have been face down on the floor in a few seconds, not ten minutes later. When trained SS agents watching the interaction don't consider it threatening in any way, shape, or form until 10 minutes after the fact AND there is active disagreement among them, I'm more than comfortable calling it weapons grade bullshiat. These men were protecting the 2nd most important man in the United States and would have had their head on a swivel and been ready to act at a moments notice.

This clown now assigned to Guam needs to be thrown in jail and the government owes the victim some good money
 
2012-03-21 01:06:51 PM
I suggest both parties go to an intermediary... Perhaps the International Court of Justice at The Hague.
 
2012-03-21 01:07:10 PM

namegoeshere: PowerSlacker: We have Secret Service agents in Guam?

We do now.


www.wayfaring.info

There are worse places to get exiled to.

Still, that really does sound like he farked up real bad, don't it?
 
2012-03-21 01:08:26 PM

ginandbacon: "In this case, the agents, backed by the Obama administration, are contending that in cases involving protection of the president and vice president in particular, law enforcement officers must make split-second decisions - and that their protective actions would be chilled if they could be sued for making the wrong call. They want immunity from lawsuits."

Um, I'm not okay with this.


I agree. Taking action ten minutes after a non-incident is not making a split-second decision. It comes across more as "Let us calculate how much we can reasonably get away with, then take action."
 
2012-03-21 01:08:27 PM

Giltric: No it means they gave him a pass....like a cop who gives you a warning for doing 85 in a 55.....when that officer hears a cop down the road calling in your delta lima again for doing 96 in a 55 they tend to make things harder for you since you weren't that appreciative of being given the pass the first time.


Did you even read the article? Reichle didn't even witness the original encounter, there was no warning, and the eyewitness accounts of agents who did witness the encounter contradict Reichle's account, saying there was "no threatening or agressive behavior".
 
2012-03-21 01:10:31 PM

DarwiOdrade: Giltric: No it means they gave him a pass....like a cop who gives you a warning for doing 85 in a 55.....when that officer hears a cop down the road calling in your delta lima again for doing 96 in a 55 they tend to make things harder for you since you weren't that appreciative of being given the pass the first time.

Did you even read the article? Reichle didn't even witness the original encounter, there was no warning, and the eyewitness accounts of agents who did witness the encounter contradict Reichle's account, saying there was "no threatening or agressive behavior".


Yeah well thats besides the point Mr. Article McReaderson.
 
2012-03-21 01:11:10 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Gambling odds:

I will bet anyone here one year's Totalfark subscription that Clarence Thomas will vote to send this man to jail.

Any takers?


First, can you tell us how much money Clarence has received from Corrections Corporation of America in the last year?
I think it's fair for everyone to have a decent idea what the odds are.
 
2012-03-21 01:13:56 PM

kingoomieiii: Because People in power are Stupid: Gambling odds:

I will bet anyone here one year's Totalfark subscription that Clarence Thomas will vote to send this man to jail.

Any takers?

Well, that's a bad bet, because jail time isn't on the table here.


Thanks, Mr. Buzzkill. There goes my year of TF! :-)
 
2012-03-21 01:14:41 PM

Giltric: DarwiOdrade: Giltric: No it means they gave him a pass....like a cop who gives you a warning for doing 85 in a 55.....when that officer hears a cop down the road calling in your delta lima again for doing 96 in a 55 they tend to make things harder for you since you weren't that appreciative of being given the pass the first time.

Did you even read the article? Reichle didn't even witness the original encounter, there was no warning, and the eyewitness accounts of agents who did witness the encounter contradict Reichle's account, saying there was "no threatening or agressive behavior".

Yeah well thats besides the point Mr. Article McReaderson.


No it's not
 
2012-03-21 01:16:22 PM
kronicfeld



I think the administration knows it's going to lose here, but it has to present all the arguments that will favor a narrowly-tailored holding and precedent that don't infringe on the true instances of snap decision-making.


Bulls-it.


The only reason you moon-bats aren't up in arms over this is because a fellow Dem is in the white house backing this case. If the idiot bush was still there' you'd be photo-shopping swastikas over bush's face and posting them.

// every officer involved here should be sent to prison for life and water boarded hourly.
 
2012-03-21 01:17:38 PM

OnlyM3: kronicfeld



I think the administration knows it's going to lose here, but it has to present all the arguments that will favor a narrowly-tailored holding and precedent that don't infringe on the true instances of snap decision-making.

Bulls-it.


The only reason you moon-bats aren't up in arms over this is because a fellow Dem is in the white house backing this case. If the idiot bush was still there' you'd be photo-shopping swastikas over bush's face and posting them.

// every officer involved here should be sent to prison for life and water boarded hourly.


Even the ones who agree with the plaintiff?

/think before you type
 
2012-03-21 01:18:56 PM
"Fark you!"
tvmedia.ign.com
The only person who insults Cheney and lives, is Cheney.
He made a man apologize for being shot in the face, for Christ's sake. You do not fark with that man. He will pull out your beating heart and offer it to Kali-ma.
 
2012-03-21 01:20:18 PM

redmid17: Yells =/= tells the VP his policies are disgusting. It's perfectly possible to deliver a scathing indictment of the Bush administration without raising your voice above a whisper


And it'd be perfectly legal to yell, too.
 
2012-03-21 01:21:17 PM
Man, I hope that guy's hand is okay. It's not wise to touch pure evil.

i1042.photobucket.com
 
2012-03-21 01:22:10 PM

Inchoate: redmid17: Yells =/= tells the VP his policies are disgusting. It's perfectly possible to deliver a scathing indictment of the Bush administration without raising your voice above a whisper

And it'd be perfectly legal to yell, too.


Yeah but yelling at Cheney is more likely to draw the attention of his SS agents and create a scene. If your sole intent is to walk up to Cheney and start yelling, that's a much better defense for creating a hostile environment and increasing the chance of getting arrested, which this man neither wanted nor intended.
 
2012-03-21 01:25:31 PM
Looks like we have a case of conflicting witness accounts here. What does Cheney have to say?

Of course, we should take steps to make sure he's telling the truth:

robertbonnett.files.wordpress.com

========================================

Seriously, though. Assuming TFA is at all accurate this is a blindingly obvious case of retaliatory arrest.

It happens ALL the freaking time-- hell, the NYPD has a favorite phrase of theirs: "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride" meaning the cops are basically free to arrest and charge anybody with anything they want, no matter how unjustified, and the poor bastard will have to be booked and wait overnight in a filthy overcrowed holding pen with often dangerous individuals. Often this overnight turns into a day, a weekend or possibly even much longer until arraignment and, if bail money isn't available, until the prosecutor gets around to dropping the blatantly false charges.

The only reason this time it got any attention is because it involved the former VP and (currently unindicted) war criminal.

This sort of abuse of power should not be permitted in a free society. In addition to forcing anybody with power of arrest to carry a miniature videocamera, we should be giving anybody who has been arrested with charges later dropped an automatic $10,000 plus an additional $1000 for each day they spend in jail. Maybe THAT would be an actual deterrent.

In a free society, the police should be VERY reluctant to make an arrest unless it's damn clear cut.
 
2012-03-21 01:26:34 PM
If it makes you feel any better, he doesn't like it when Canadians call him what he is either.
 
2012-03-21 01:27:53 PM
I'm not so sure this was about him insulting Cheney as much as it was about a Secret Service agent looking for some action/trouble. The agents were probably very used to hearing insulting things yelled at Cheney and didn't really see this guy's actions as suspicious. Later, when he showed back up again "looking anxious", that caught Richie's attention. Then, "Agent Reichle of the Denver office went over to Howards and asked if he would answer a few questions about his conversation with Cheney. Howards said no and told Reichle that if he didn't want people accosting Cheney, he should "keep Cheney out of public places.""

Sounds to me like this then turned into a "respect my authority" pissing match and Richie decided to punish Howards by arresting him. Richie then attempted to cover up his power trip by attempting to make him look like a legitimate threat. Not to blame the victum here but Howards probably could have avoided arrest by simply answering Richie's questions. That said, Howards isn't under any obligation to answer the questions and should never have been arrested.

/my $.02, FWIW
 
2012-03-21 01:28:45 PM

lucksi: 10 minutes is not a spli second decision you morons


Shhhhh. (wispers) Revisionist history is the best history.
 
2012-03-21 01:31:26 PM

eurotrader: The question is when are overzealous police going to be held accountable for abusing the rights of people and then lying about it to cover up their illegal behavior. Agent Reichle's action of asking other agents to lying on their reports is a crime and not only should Reichle be fire he should be on his way to jail for breaking the law, it would serve as a statement to police in the US that abusing power and lying will not be tolerated and will have repercussions.

The problem is the people and politicians have been force-feed the need to ignore the constitution because of unseen threats and the gullible have been eating it up. See the TSA for a good example of Security Theater without performing any real good or any protection.


WIth the present SCOTUS, the government will be upheld in the court's decision.
Citizens' rights have been eroded by courts and lawmakers. The government's
responsiblity to protect themselves will overrule the inconvienence of the public.
 
2012-03-21 01:32:18 PM
Dick Cheney has no pulse. Of course that is not relevant to the discussion here, except in the Evil Undead Guy sense, but there it is.
 
2012-03-21 01:35:09 PM

redmid17: Giltric: Yells


Aw dammit, we had a good streak of "nobody responding to Giltric" going there...
 
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