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(Yahoo)   Who holds back the electric car? Who makes Steve Guttenburg... A star? WE DO   (finance.yahoo.com) divider line 85
    More: Obvious, General Motors Co., A123 Systems, Lundberg Survey, emission standard, gasoline engines, Chevrolet Volt, downtown Chicago, Fisker  
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3996 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 Mar 2012 at 10:21 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-21 08:32:28 AM
We Do! (new window)
 
2012-03-21 08:54:39 AM
As long as they continue to keep the metric system down.
 
2012-03-21 09:04:58 AM

Sybarite: As long as they continue to keep the metric system down.


Yeah but who rigs every Oscar night?
 
2012-03-21 09:05:31 AM
Goddammit, I clicked TFa really, really, really hoping this was about Steve Guttenburg making a comeback. We need you, Steve!

/jk
//Yes, c-c-combobreaker
 
2012-03-21 09:14:30 AM
i260.photobucket.com
 
2012-03-21 10:27:35 AM
I actually thought he gave a really good performance on Veronica Mars.

Also, I really love Veronica Mars.

Also, I really love Kristen Bell.
 
2012-03-21 10:28:11 AM
Bring out the rock o shame
 
2012-03-21 10:30:31 AM
"Maybe there's too much expectation of more and quicker success than might realistically be expected of a brand new technology."

No shiat, really?
 
2012-03-21 10:35:16 AM
It's too bad Apple hasn't gotten in the game.

Can you imagine an Apple car? Fanboys would line up around the block for that.
 
2012-03-21 10:35:51 AM
I'm curious why the article mentions that republicans would likely remove the tax breaks on electric vehicles. Those were in place under the last republican administration, so why would a new one remove them? Has there been talk of that?

/Serious.
 
2012-03-21 10:36:52 AM
they could use heat from Ipad 3 to power car.
 
2012-03-21 10:37:02 AM

bdub77: It's too bad Apple hasn't gotten in the game.

Can you imagine an Apple car? Fanboys would line up around the block for that.


Imagine a Jailbroken Apple car
 
2012-03-21 10:39:37 AM

Some Texan: I'm curious why the article mentions that republicans would likely remove the tax breaks on electric vehicles. Those were in place under the last republican administration, so why would a new one remove them? Has there been talk of that?


Because Socialism, I believe.

Also, the GOP are slightly more in the pocket of the oil industry than the Democrats are.
 
2012-03-21 10:43:40 AM

bdub77: It's too bad Apple hasn't gotten in the game.

Can you imagine an Apple car? Fanboys would line up around the block for that.


We used to wonder "What if Bic made a car?" Cheap, disposable, reliable... constantly getting stolen, sure.

www.brandlogos.info
 
2012-03-21 10:47:23 AM

bdub77: It's too bad Apple hasn't gotten in the game.

Can you imagine an Apple car? Fanboys would line up around the block for that.


Give it 5-6 years. I am sure that steve jobs will ... oh shiat.

we're all farked.
 
2012-03-21 10:49:53 AM
Now let's get drunk and play ping pong!
 
2012-03-21 10:51:33 AM
Make them cheap. Like Kia when it first came to America cheap. Barebones.

Targeting the mid-/upper middle class sometimes works to spawn a new type of product (looking at you Apple), but with so many options out there and a small market willing to pay the additional costs it's not going to take off quickly. Even if gas prices are over $8, that upfront cost and (especially now) low vehicle replacement rates and subsequent reduction in the number of used cars are going to prevent them from becoming widely available or accepted in the market.

The target should be the young 20-somethings if we want to transition off of exclusively petroleum-based transportation anytime soon.
 
2012-03-21 10:55:28 AM

bdub77: It's too bad Apple hasn't gotten in the game.

Can you imagine an Apple car? Fanboys would line up around the block for that.


You'd have to recharge exclusively at Apple iStations (got to keep making money after the product is sold), be made of aluminum, look suspiciously like a DeLorean, and require you to select from a pre-approved list of destinations.
 
2012-03-21 10:57:45 AM
I keep seeing conflicting reports about the Volt. Some say the say the car is unpopular and others that they weren't able to make enough to meet demand. Which is true?
 
2012-03-21 10:59:32 AM
It's an anecdote, sure, but my Dad loves his Leaf.
 
2012-03-21 11:01:53 AM

AcademGreen: Make them cheap. Like Kia when it first came to America cheap. Barebones.

Targeting the mid-/upper middle class sometimes works to spawn a new type of product (looking at you Apple), but with so many options out there and a small market willing to pay the additional costs it's not going to take off quickly. Even if gas prices are over $8, that upfront cost and (especially now) low vehicle replacement rates and subsequent reduction in the number of used cars are going to prevent them from becoming widely available or accepted in the market.

The target should be the young 20-somethings if we want to transition off of exclusively petroleum-based transportation anytime soon.


Exactly. I'm not paying $100k for a car. Especially one that breaks 2 hours after I buy it.
 
2012-03-21 11:03:34 AM

IrateShadow: I keep seeing conflicting reports about the Volt. Some say the say the car is unpopular and others that they weren't able to make enough to meet demand. Which is true?


GM has idled the Volt production because of sluggish sales. (new window)

It's a pretty cool car, it's just kind of expensive. If you can swing the price, you will drastically reduce the amount of gasoline you'll need to buy.
 
2012-03-21 11:12:16 AM
FTFA: Toyota has begun selling a plug-in Prius

About time, but they need to shoot for better all-electric range. The current model only has 11 miles in pure electric mode. I'm sure that battery cost is the limiting factor.

On the other hand, the ability to plug in will still help reduce gas usage.
 
2012-03-21 11:27:14 AM
The 34-year-old car lover bought the plug-in hybrid electric Karma in December for $107,850, but five days later the car's battery died as he was driving in downtown Chicago. While the car he affectionately calls a "head turner" was fixed in a recall, Kluth remains uncertain how much he will drive it.

The mistake he made was buying a car that was a "head turner" instead of one that was a "wheel turner".
 
2012-03-21 11:36:14 AM

AcademGreen: Make them cheap. Like Kia when it first came to America cheap. Barebones.

Targeting the mid-/upper middle class sometimes works to spawn a new type of product (looking at you Apple), but with so many options out there and a small market willing to pay the additional costs it's not going to take off quickly. Even if gas prices are over $8, that upfront cost and (especially now) low vehicle replacement rates and subsequent reduction in the number of used cars are going to prevent them from becoming widely available or accepted in the market.

The target should be the young 20-somethings if we want to transition off of exclusively petroleum-based transportation anytime soon.


Electric cars are typically at least twice as expensive to purchase than gas powered vehicles (even after government rebates), and are inherently inferior to gas vehicles (in the sense they can't go on a road trip). And the extra costs isn't due to fancy features, but due to the factor that huge batteries cost a fark ton. There's no way, with current technology, to make them as cheap as gas powered cars. In fact, one of the reasons a lot of the current pure electrics are sold as luxury cars is because they are too expensive to sell otherwise (due to the costs of the batteries).

The sweet spot seems to be a traditional hybrid (aka, the Prius), maybe with a very short plug in range. They can get away with a smaller (and therefore cheaper) battery. Things like the Volt require the massive battery cost of a regular electric car, plus they have to have a gas engine as well.
 
2012-03-21 11:45:59 AM

Geotpf: AcademGreen: Make them cheap. Like Kia when it first came to America cheap. Barebones.

Targeting the mid-/upper middle class sometimes works to spawn a new type of product (looking at you Apple), but with so many options out there and a small market willing to pay the additional costs it's not going to take off quickly. Even if gas prices are over $8, that upfront cost and (especially now) low vehicle replacement rates and subsequent reduction in the number of used cars are going to prevent them from becoming widely available or accepted in the market.

The target should be the young 20-somethings if we want to transition off of exclusively petroleum-based transportation anytime soon.

Electric cars are typically at least twice as expensive to purchase than gas powered vehicles (even after government rebates), and are inherently inferior to gas vehicles (in the sense they can't go on a road trip). And the extra costs isn't due to fancy features, but due to the factor that huge batteries cost a fark ton. There's no way, with current technology, to make them as cheap as gas powered cars. In fact, one of the reasons a lot of the current pure electrics are sold as luxury cars is because they are too expensive to sell otherwise (due to the costs of the batteries).

The sweet spot seems to be a traditional hybrid (aka, the Prius), maybe with a very short plug in range. They can get away with a smaller (and therefore cheaper) battery. Things like the Volt require the massive battery cost of a regular electric car, plus they have to have a gas engine as well.


I agree with all your points. I don't see battery-exclusive transport taking off or being cheap to manufacture with current technology due to the factors you mention. I didn't make it very clear in my post that I meant manufacturing a low cost non-petroleum-exclusive vehicles.
 
2012-03-21 11:47:02 AM

Geotpf: In fact, one of the reasons a lot of the current pure electrics are sold as luxury cars is because they are too expensive to sell otherwise (due to the costs of the batteries).


Yes, but when you do that it raises expectations and people expect them to work. It'd be one thing if an electric Yugo breaks down ("what do you expect it's a Yugo?"), another when you've paid a hefty premium.

Unfortunately, as we've seen from the CFL's early problems can leave long lasting impressions that are hard to overcome even long after the problems have been resolved or at least minimized.
 
2012-03-21 11:47:20 AM
I'd totally buy an all-electric car but for two things:

1) We only need one car, and if we only have one then it should be gasoline.

2) How am I supposed to charge up my electric car when I live in an apartment? Run a cable out my window?
 
2012-03-21 11:55:24 AM
and in honor of this momentous occasion... we're having ribs.
 
2012-03-21 11:56:29 AM

QuinnTheFetus: Bring out the rock o shame


Release the Rock of Shame... and attach the Rock... of Celebration!!
 
2012-03-21 12:08:47 PM
I think this this company has a good idea.

You never own the battery, you lease it. And instead of charging the battery when it dies, you go to a swapping station that changes the battery in about 1 minute.
 
2012-03-21 12:09:23 PM

Fubegra: About time, but they need to shoot for better all-electric range. The current model only has 11 miles in pure electric mode.


That would be enough to get me to or from work... except I wouldn't be able to charge it at either location.
 
2012-03-21 12:20:29 PM
As a member of the ████████ of the ██████ I'm getting a ████ ██████ ████ ██ ██████ kick out of this
 
2012-03-21 12:22:57 PM
Ever since Colonel Sanders went tits up?
 
Zel
2012-03-21 12:34:05 PM

Fubini: 2) How am I supposed to charge up my electric car when I live in an apartment? Run a cable out my window?


That.

Electric car seems to require a garage. Probably cant park them outside over winter either.
 
2012-03-21 12:38:50 PM
And even with rising gasoline prices -- topping $4 a gallon in parts of the country -- EVs are just not competitive, according to the Lundberg Survey. Gasoline prices would have to rise to $8.53 a gallon to make the Leaf competitive and hit $12.50 for a Volt to be worth it, based on the cost of gasoline versus electricity, fuel efficiency and depreciation, the survey said.

What sort of giant sack of crack are they smoking? Gas only needs to go up to $5.50 a gallon to make the LEAF worth it compared to existing cars in the same class. The new Prius C class would be the only car that is still cheaper and that is only by $526 total assuming 12k driven per year for 8 years.
 
2012-03-21 12:47:54 PM

tzzhc4: The new Prius C class


Speaking of the Prius C... are those not the gayest commercials ever?
 
2012-03-21 12:48:43 PM
With an electric car, there's a hell of a lot less moving parts to break. Speaking as someone who currently has a leaky radiator, an oil pump that's nearing then end of its life, and a catalytic converter that is rattling to pieces, this appeals to me.
 
2012-03-21 01:07:13 PM
Gee, trying to introduce a $40k vehicle in a weak economy has fallen flat on it's face? Color me shocked.

/if they had not scrapped the electric car back in the mid-90s in order to focus on gas guzzling SUVs, they might not be having these problems.
 
2012-03-21 01:12:09 PM

Rapmaster2000: With an electric car, there's a hell of a lot less moving parts to break. Speaking as someone who currently has a leaky radiator, an oil pump that's nearing then end of its life, and a catalytic converter that is rattling to pieces, this appeals to me.


The major problem with the Fisker Karma isn't the mechanical bits, it's the software that integrates it all.

Software will be the Achilles heel of EVs, and even more complicated to work on than what your local shade-tree mechanic can handle. Expect a lot of proprietary code, in little black boxes that only the OEM can deal with.
 
2012-03-21 01:21:49 PM

Vanquish: I think this this company has a good idea.

You never own the battery, you lease it. And instead of charging the battery when it dies, you go to a swapping station that changes the battery in about 1 minute.


Tesla is on top of that too. Their batteries on the upcoming Model S are swappable. As long as the automakers all agree on a few standard battery sizes/capacities (like they have done for years with different grades of petrol + diesel), then that would make electric cars much more appealing. You don't need a super long driving range if you can recharge in a minute----it's these 8-hour plug-in charge times that are a turnoff.

/wants an electric car
 
2012-03-21 01:21:58 PM

Kraftwerk Orange: IrateShadow: I keep seeing conflicting reports about the Volt. Some say the say the car is unpopular and others that they weren't able to make enough to meet demand. Which is true?

GM has idled the Volt production because of sluggish sales. (new window)

It's a pretty cool car, it's just kind of expensive. If you can swing the price, you will drastically reduce the amount of gasoline you'll need to buy.


I know, anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but I live in Evansville, Indiana and I saw somebody driving a Volt around here last week. In Evansville. Backwoods, fatty, twenty-years-behind-the-times Evansville. If they can get folks around here to buy 'em, they can get ANYONE. (who has the financial means)
 
2012-03-21 01:51:27 PM
Soon as there is a car similar to the Nissan Leaf that costs me 25k either before or after any government rebates and I will buy one.
 
2012-03-21 01:53:20 PM

Fish in a Barrel: Speaking of the Prius C... are those not the gayest commercials ever?


Yeah they are annoying too. Will be interesting to see if the car lives up to the performance numbers.
 
2012-03-21 02:12:48 PM

HMS_Blinkin: Vanquish: I think this this company has a good idea.

You never own the battery, you lease it. And instead of charging the battery when it dies, you go to a swapping station that changes the battery in about 1 minute.

Tesla is on top of that too. Their batteries on the upcoming Model S are swappable.

/wants an electric car


No, they aren't. At least, not in the way you might expect. You *may* be able to get a dealer to rent you a larger battery pack for a road trip (and it will certainly take more than a few minutes), but Tesla will not be supporting the concept of battery swapping, like in the Better Place model. (new window)

"...Musk said: When people take an occasional two-way long distance trip, they'll get a replacement pack and then pick up their original one on the way back. The issue of giving up your one-year old pack for a three-year old one goes away."

Tesla is installing the Supercharger network of fast-charging stations - that will be their answer to long-distance trip recharging.
 
2012-03-21 02:32:38 PM
Electric cars may straggle around for a bit, until Earth-firsters fully realize where electricity comes from.

Nuclear, coal, and dams--all things they hate. Wind power will never meet the electrical needs of America, so don't bother bringing it up.

And no-one else will buy them to save money, since they don't. Throw on the distance restrictions, and you have something akin to a tactical coffee mug with a rifle sight. Kind of neat, but completely useless.

/Liberalism knows no bounds of financial idiocy or a lack of serious forethought.
//The real future for cleaner cars is CNG. We have so much natural gas in America we still burn it off to get to the oil.
 
2012-03-21 02:42:40 PM
Don't worry when gas gets to 20 bucks a gallon then electric cars will be cheap by default.
 
2012-03-21 02:57:37 PM

Rapmaster2000: With an electric car, there's a hell of a lot less moving parts to break. Speaking as someone who currently has a leaky radiator, an oil pump that's nearing then end of its life, and a catalytic converter that is rattling to pieces, this appeals to me.


That's just $200 in parts.
 
2012-03-21 03:02:33 PM

Kraftwerk Orange: The major problem with the Fisker Karma isn't the mechanical bits, it's the software that integrates it all.

Software will be the Achilles heel of EVs, and even more complicated to work on than what your local shade-tree mechanic can handle. Expect a lot of proprietary code, in little black boxes that only the OEM can deal with.


Bullshiat. Most parts will support the CAN interface.
 
2012-03-21 03:05:29 PM

quoinguy: Electric cars may straggle around for a bit, until Earth-firsters fully realize where electricity comes from.

Nuclear, coal, and dams--all things they hate. Wind power will never meet the electrical needs of America, so don't bother bringing it up.

And no-one else will buy them to save money, since they don't. Throw on the distance restrictions, and you have something akin to a tactical coffee mug with a rifle sight. Kind of neat, but completely useless.

/Liberalism knows no bounds of financial idiocy or a lack of serious forethought.
//The real future for cleaner cars is CNG. We have so much natural gas in America we still burn it off to get to the oil.


Guess what, the best way to use CNG for transportation is to use it through fuel cells by converting it to electricity.

So, the electricity you hate so much can also come out of your beloved CNG.
 
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