Debeo Summa Credo: seadoo2006: The_Six_Fingered_Man: seadoo2006: xaldin: Yaknow it probably isn't a great idea.

But damn I'd love me some 25% tax given what I pay every year. Being stuck in the 'richer than most' but not in the 'living off investment income' crowd is a tax level of hell. Really though just a more straight forward system and I'd be all for it. To many deductions, credits, etc etc to juggle.

Please prove to me a scenario where you ever pay an overall "25%" tax to the federal government ... you are a liar, and I'm calling you out on it.

You're not really serious, are you? I can probably pull up 25 clients right now that have an effective Federal rate above 25%. That's without doing a minute of research. Give me two hours, and I could probably pull close to a 100.

An effective 25% income tax rate? Really, because if so, he's complaining about not having enough to play the investment game while grossing $240k+/year ... to have an effective tax rate (with single-filing and no deductions or dependents) of 25%+, you need to gross over $240k a year ... complaining about being in the top 1.5% of income earners in this country is just fodder for the idiots. Sorry, if you make that much, you have no right to complain one, tiny, small bit. Shut the fark up, enjoy that you make more than 295 million people in this country and enjoy what you have.

The entitlement of the upper classes is just OUTRAGEOUS.

Oh, STFU you whiner. That 1.5% pays for most of the shiat that freeloaders like you enjoy, and they earn their money by being valuable enough to an employer or customers to get that paycheck. You don't make that much becaues you are not worth that much. Plain and simple.

You benefit thanks to the largesse of that minority. The fact that you don't acknowledge that and in fact demonize the people whose contributions make the social safety net you enjoy possible is OUTRAGEOUS, you cock.

LOL ... I pay my share of taxes and I can say that I'm living VERY comfortably with a salary on the high-end of 5-figures ... seriously, I live like a farking KING for half as much as it takes to get to the top 1.5% .... this is just greed, pure and simple, or it's financial stupidity. I don't own a half-million dollar McMansion, I don't have two car loans, I don't have kids in private schools, and yet, somehow, I'm living like a king.

I have three cars, a nice place to live, health-insurance with full-bennies, a maxed 401k, Roth IRA, and I'm able to save 35% of my after-tax paycheck every month ... and again, I only make in the high-five figures. Seriously, I'm not understanding how anyone could complain about paying a little more taxes making twice or more than I do? Hell, if my income taxes went up 10%, I'd see a MINIMAL change in lifestyle (I'd probably just save 20% a month instead of my current 35%) and I'd still be fine.

The ass-backwards logic of the top "1.5%" of income earners just mean that 5 million out of 300 million are farking retarded and can't seem to spend their money wisely.

xaldin: seadoo2006: xaldin: Yaknow it probably isn't a great idea.

But damn I'd love me some 25% tax given what I pay every year. Being stuck in the 'richer than most' but not in the 'living off investment income' crowd is a tax level of hell. Really though just a more straight forward system and I'd be all for it. To many deductions, credits, etc etc to juggle.

Please prove to me a scenario where you ever pay an overall "25%" tax to the federal government ... you are a liar, and I'm calling you out on it.

...

Federal tax brackets for anyone over 178k single, 217 married filing jointly is 33%, for 142k married joint is 28%. Or are we having games with terminology that I'm not aware of.


Apparently someone failed tax 101 federal taxes are on a progressive scale. Assuming there are NO deductions, Someone who has a SINGLE taxable income of 178k pays just over 24.5% OR 43K. THIS IS STRAIGHT OFF THE 1040 FORM! While his bracket is 33%, the amount he has paid on the lower brackets, and the deductions that are availaboe should bring him well under that.

Heck even with just standard deductions, and nothing else, no morgage, no eid, no capital losses, no other taxes, etc he should be able to knock off close to 10k off his taxable income.

Humean_Nature: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Double pinky swear with Reagan on top!

I'm stealing that. I'm stealing it hard.

I have a feeling that we'll be seeing that in a headline sooner rather than later. Heh, with Reagan on top. Instant classic.

Ryan also argued that although the Congressional Budget Office did not conclude that his plan would balance the federal budget soon, it actually would because his tax cuts would spur the economy.

Hurrrr.... derp derp derp. This is the guy who submitted his last budget proposal to the ultra conservative Heritage Foundation first because he knew they'd go along with his idiotically optimistic projections. Once the CBO got a hold of it and supplied a non-partisan critique, it was revealed for the pile of shiat that it was.

Now we have Ryan Budget II: Fark the Poor Harder.

Debeo Summa Credo
Oh, STFU you whiner.

Oh, STFU you mind numbingly ignorant cock. It's people like you that allow the United States to have an insane wealth gap that's an embarrassment to any modern nation. We'd be far better off if you and your ilk got the fark out. Go live out your Ayn Rand fantasy somewhere else and let the people who aren't complete assholes build a decent society.

SevenizGud: OMG! Doesn't the GOP understand that gubmint can spend our money for us better than we can spend it for ourselves?

What next, allowing the people to vote?


Reminds me of this:

theorellior: Headso: the social services and progressive taxation that benefits the middle class create a consumer class because people have discretionary spending. Rich people don't just magically make money from tax cuts, they sell the stuff the middle class purchase.

That Commie socialist Henry Ford figured that out when he started paying his assembly line workers more than scraping-by wages.

tell me about it. I know "conservatives" are about a decade behind on music, comedy and fashion but it seems they are a century behind on fiscal policy.

xaldin: you whiner

This is a pretty foolish aspersion to cast, considering your opening salvo in this thread was:

xaldin: Being stuck in the 'richer than most' but not in the 'living off investment income' crowd is a tax level of hell

...and now you're pissed because people are (justifiably) questioning your assertions.

Thunderpipes: Those people all get to vote, and they will always vote for whomever promises them the most free money. Right now that is Democrats.

surprisingly the highest percentage of welfare recipients are in red states, and by surprisingly i mean not surprisingly.. They also have the highest percentage of AIDs cases, diabetes cases, the lowest school rating, the highest drop out rates, the poorest people... fattest people... pretty much anything shiatty they are on top.

culebra: xaldin: you whiner

This is a pretty foolish aspersion to cast, considering your opening salvo in this thread was:

xaldin: Being stuck in the 'richer than most' but not in the 'living off investment income' crowd is a tax level of hell

...and now you're pissed because people are (justifiably) questioning your assertions.

Actually the 'you whiner' portion was from a quoted post markers gone wrong editing to cut space. My post on that one didn't start until "Well we've".

Ultimately though doesn't matter if folks question it, I do make enough for it and I haven't seen a 1040 in a long long time. I have an account deal with it.

Still trying to get the lower class to pay for this crap?!

Still?!

Troy McClure: Why isn't it class warfare when the burden shifts to poorer folks?

Because everyone knows the poor have no class.

Now go polish my Bentley...

Privatize -> Let the rich rape the middle class in new and awful ways.

No matter how many times trickle down fails, there are retards out there thinking it works.

Please be clear on this, if you think tax cuts and removal of social safety nets is the answer to the recession, you are retarded.

How much economic growth have the Bush tax cuts given us again?

Debeo Summa Credo: Meh. The GOP is absolutely right that we need to reform Medicare in a big way, but they keep crapping out such ridiculous plans that they can't be taken seriously.

I suppose they might have a redeeming virtue in that they may be keeping the Dems going too far left, but cripes. God help us if they ever get both houses and the White House again.

10% and 25% is revenue neutral? C'mon.

It is if you assume that FREE MARKE MAGIC will wake the Confidence Fairy who will make businesses expand production and investment despite no preceding increase in demand. It's like flying in Peter Pan - fairy dust and happy thoughts equals flight. Only the fairy dust is confidence fairy dust, and happy thoughts is tax breaks for the rich.

It's attempting to solve a demand-side issue (most people are too poor or uncertain about their jobs to spend money) with a supply-side solution (giving businesses and the wealthy more money to invest).

In other words - it works if you're stupid.

Ofcourse that goes against the dem plan of, just raise more taxes and we can spend more money.
If 40% of Americans are dems that makes for a hell of a lot of rich people. If raising taxes is so patriotic and will solve all our money problems (the problems dear leader said he'd fix during the 2008 campaign but hasn't come close to fixing yet), why aren't those rich dems cutting checks? 40% would put a large dent in the countries money woes if you live by the spread the wealth fantasy.
If raising taxes is the answer, prove it and pay what you think is the appropriate amount. Show America how to fix our money problems. If you can prove to me that raising taxes is the answer I'll become an obamoron. You can do that, according to the lib talking points, by fixing 40% of Americas money problems.
Come on big money libs, break out the check books!

BillCo: Good, give the money back to the people so that it can be used to get the country back on it's feet.

0/10

meat0918: Maybe that toothless food stamp recipient interviewed in Mississippi will finally stop voting Republican since it has never worked out for him...

But it might! (crosseyed, gummy grin)

But it never has.

But it might! (another crosseyed, gummy grin)

Is this one of those threads where ideas from the other political party seem illogical and disastrous because you actually think that only your political party has the corner market on reason and sanity? Because if it is then sign me up!

Launch Code: Come on big money libs, break out the check books!

If we raise the tax rates then they will pay more out of their check books. So I'm not sure what your point is here?

Launch Code: Ofcourse that goes against the dem plan of, just raise more taxes and we can spend more money.
If 40% of Americans are dems that makes for a hell of a lot of rich people. If raising taxes is so patriotic and will solve all our money problems (the problems dear leader said he'd fix during the 2008 campaign but hasn't come close to fixing yet), why aren't those rich dems cutting checks? 40% would put a large dent in the countries money woes if you live by the spread the wealth fantasy.
If raising taxes is the answer, prove it and pay what you think is the appropriate amount. Show America how to fix our money problems. If you can prove to me that raising taxes is the answer I'll become an obamoron. You can do that, according to the lib talking points, by fixing 40% of Americas money problems.
Come on big money libs, break out the check books!

Because taxes are a COMMUNAL effort you ignorant boob. 20 rich people writing checks for an extra portion of taxes owed doesn't do jack shiat in a country of 300 million people. However, raising taxes on the top 1.5% of income earners by a few percentage points adds up to real money, real quickly. But, hey, what do I know, top tax bracket under Reagan was 50% and nobody seemed to biatch about that ...

pizen: MaudlinMutantMollusk: How stupid do you have to be to believe that every single problem has the exact same answer?

When you refuse to consider all tools but the hammer in your toolbox every problem looks like a nail.

The Republicans don't have a toolbox at this point. They don't have a hammer either. They have a can silly string, some toe-nail clippers and half a bottle of Yoo-hoo that expired in 1986.

When that is all you have, every problem looks like take some rights away from women.

tallguywithglasseson: jabelar: Ummm, I'm pretty sure I do. I make straight income in a high bracket and don't have much to deduct. I'm in the 30 percents ...

30%, that would be well over $450,000 taxable a year, and even more if there are *any* deductions.
So maybe more like 500k a year. So... congratulations?

If you use Turbotax, they print your effective rate right on your receipt.

Someone who makes $450,000 a year and uses fark.com? WTF. I mean, shouldn't you have no time to fark because you are spending your time wisely making money?

/like how rich people are bad at math/taxes, don't know how their effective tax rate works.

hitlersbrain: Privatize -> Let the rich rape the middle class in new and awful ways.

No matter how many times trickle down fails, there are retards out there thinking it works.

Please be clear on this, if you think tax cuts and removal of social safety nets is the answer to the recession, you are retarded.

Privatization is just one weapon the corporatocracy uses against everyone who doesn't belong.

Watch Speaking Freely Volume 1: John Perkins.

First you get nations--including ours--into serious debt problems then you offer to privatize their institutions. You make money and the poor get poorer.

xaldin: Ultimately though doesn't matter if folks question it, I do make enough for it and I haven't seen a 1040 in a long long time. I have an account deal with it.

Which is probably why you are confused about your effective tax rate.

Petey4335: Debeo Summa Credo: Meh. The GOP is absolutely right that we need to reform Medicare in a big way, but they keep crapping out such ridiculous plans that they can't be taken seriously.

How about letting people like me buy into it. It should add into the system since I'm not going to use it much unless something catastrophic happens.
-I see my doctor for a yearly physical
-Simvistatin costs me ~$3 every month
-I can handle a Chiro Co-pay.

Theoretically there should already be enough free market forces (i.e. competition) to keep costs contained, but they're not. Compare it to Canada where there is little competition at the insurance level and they pay a lot less for the same meds and services.

The reason why the free market doesn't work for us is because the insurance companies have the opportunity to screw the consumer/patient rather than screw their suppliers. The idea of 100% coverage is key, and the reason that the Canadian system works better. Instead of the insurance companies trying to limit patients, they should be working on the drug companies and hospitals to reduce what they pay. For example, I'm pretty sure that the insurance companies have enough buying power that if they said "we're only paying X for such-and-such cholesterol drug" that the drug companies would have to comply or compete for the business.

Anyway, this is the reason the system feels broken and why people in other countries get the same drugs and services for much less cost. Instead of trying to squeeze profit from their suppliers, they are trying to squeeze it from the patients and not properly working the cost side. With a 100% coverage rule, they would not be able to work profit from the patients and would have to squeeze suppliers. It is a win for everyone except the drug companies.

Let's stop pitting big insurance companies against patients and instead pit them against big drug and healthcare companies. Then we'd see the benefit of free market.

So let me get this right: If I reduce my hours and make less income, I save money?

Huh.

gund: tallguywithglasseson: jabelar: Ummm, I'm pretty sure I do. I make straight income in a high bracket and don't have much to deduct. I'm in the 30 percents ...

30%, that would be well over $450,000 taxable a year, and even more if there are *any* deductions.
So maybe more like 500k a year. So... congratulations?

If you use Turbotax, they print your effective rate right on your receipt.

Someone who makes $450,000 a year and uses fark.com? WTF. I mean, shouldn't you have no time to fark because you are spending your time wisely making money?

/like how rich people are bad at math/taxes, don't know how their effective tax rate works.

Likely because they are lying sacks of shiat in debt up to their eyeballs wishing for a six-figure salary. I can never comprehend how someone bringing home $20,000 A FARKING MONTH has any problems with money, ever, in their entire lives. Shiat ... for $20,000 A MONTH I could do countless things ...

Launch Code: Ofcourse that goes against the dem plan of, just raise more taxes and we can spend more money.
If 40% of Americans are dems that makes for a hell of a lot of rich people. If raising taxes is so patriotic and will solve all our money problems (the problems dear leader said he'd fix during the 2008 campaign but hasn't come close to fixing yet), why aren't those rich dems cutting checks? 40% would put a large dent in the countries money woes if you live by the spread the wealth fantasy.
If raising taxes is the answer, prove it and pay what you think is the appropriate amount. Show America how to fix our money problems. If you can prove to me that raising taxes is the answer I'll become an obamoron. You can do that, according to the lib talking points, by fixing 40% of Americas money problems.
Come on big money libs, break out the check books!



You are like that guy Jim Carrey played, except your number is 40... amirite?

Launch Code: Ofcourse that goes against the dem plan of, just raise more taxes and we can spend more money.
If 40% of Americans are dems that makes for a hell of a lot of rich people. If raising taxes is so patriotic and will solve all our money problems (the problems dear leader said he'd fix during the 2008 campaign but hasn't come close to fixing yet), why aren't those rich dems cutting checks? 40% would put a large dent in the countries money woes if you live by the spread the wealth fantasy.
If raising taxes is the answer, prove it and pay what you think is the appropriate amount. Show America how to fix our money problems. If you can prove to me that raising taxes is the answer I'll become an obamoron. You can do that, according to the lib talking points, by fixing 40% of Americas money problems.
Come on big money libs, break out the check books!

I know what those words mean, but in this context they have no meaning...

tallguywithglasseson: jabelar: Ummm, I'm pretty sure I do. I make straight income in a high bracket and don't have much to deduct. I'm in the 30 percents ...

30%, that would be well over $450,000 taxable a year, and even more if there are *any* deductions.
So maybe more like 500k a year. So... congratulations?

If you use Turbotax, they print your effective rate right on your receipt.

No, first of all, the proposed 25% is a marginal tax. So you have to compare marginally.

But yes, I'm in that bracket some years.

No I don't use Turbotax, spend plenty of money on accountants.

However, I, unlike most others refuse to borrow money. So no mortgage. Also single, so no worries about protecting assets, life insurances, college savings. Also, I don't gamble, so no investments -- only straight contracted interest (bridge lending). Don't do any retirement savings because it is foolish to lock in your money and make less with it than you can churning it through my business.

Most of the tax deductions are really consolation prizes -- oh you've got a mortgage poor baby here's a tax break, oh you've got kids poor baby here's a tax break, oh you've had investment losses poor baby here's a tax break.

TheShavingofOccam123: hitlersbrain: Privatize -> Let the rich rape the middle class in new and awful ways.

No matter how many times trickle down fails, there are retards out there thinking it works.

Please be clear on this, if you think tax cuts and removal of social safety nets is the answer to the recession, you are retarded.

Privatization is just one weapon the corporatocracy uses against everyone who doesn't belong.

Watch Speaking Freely Volume 1: John Perkins.

First you get nations--including ours--into serious debt problems then you offer to privatize their institutions. You make money and the poor get poorer.

I've posted this before, but it bear repeating:

Step 1) Create a budget crisis by launching two wars, cutting taxes, creating a huge giveaway to Big Pharma and allowing Wall Street free reign to engage in shady shennanigans that cripple the economy

Step 2) Proclaim the crisis is due to government spending too much and make drastic budget cuts

Step 3) Cuts to government functions inevitably lead to core functions being farmed out to the private sector, increasing corporate profits

Step 4) A portion of said profits are then pumped into Republican re-election coffers

Step 5) Profit

Paul Ryan is my state representative. I look forward to voting against him again.

Hey but this time his MEDICARE coupons for farking the old people have 'bi-partisan' support.... Oh wait, even that idiot Wyden in Oregon knew this was another POS plan that benefits only the wealthy. The Federal Government and specifically President Obama is the only thing that protects me from assholes in my native state of Florida and the knuckle-dragging idiots in Arizona, Oklahoma, Texas, Tennessee, Kansas, Virginia, South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana that are chicken-shiat scared of everything and lack the good sense to pour piss out of a boot.

Yeah, there's NO way that letting financially savvy people keep their money can be good for the economy. And when I say financially savvy people, I'm talking about people who actually make the country run by creating jobs; not the slovenly lower middle class and below people who are sucking at the government teat.

Newsflash: if you let someone like me keep my own money, I will use that money for buying houses, stocks, bonds and other things that will be good for the economy and get the country back on track while creating jobs. If you tax my money and give it to poor people as an earned income credit, they're going to spend it on lottery tickets, fried pork skins, and cigarettes.

(And yes, I'm sure some wit will jump in with a remark like "You sure as hell won't spend the money on tips for waiters!" HAHA! How clever!)