I do not go so fr as to fark them. I am happy giving them a dollar at a time.

/drtfa

vpb: I think it has more to do with farking the middle class. The poor don't have anything to steal, and rich people can fight back.

an astute observation...

but, the middle class nowadays is basically the poor, since the cost of living has gone up tenfold in the last 50 years, while the income has stayed the same.

/ really pretty funny to think that one of the many reasons things are more expensive is because there are more attractive ways to borrow money.

pute kisses like a man: vpb: I think it has more to do with farking the middle class. The poor don't have anything to steal, and rich people can fight back.

an astute observation...

but, the middle class nowadays is basically the poor, since the cost of living has gone up tenfold in the last 50 years, while the income has stayed the same.

/ really pretty funny to think that one of the many reasons things are more expensive is because there are more attractive ways to borrow money.

I made a funny observation recently. I noticed that the less debt I was paying off the more funds I had available to spend/invest in whatever I wanted too.

Of course I could get two 30k car loans, a huge mortgage and max out several credit cards and complain that I'm poor and being screwed by the rich, but that's just not my way.

I've only farked two poor people in my life. One was a big-boned trailer-trash girl from Georgia (one night stand), and the other was a five-foot-nothing firecracker with massive tits and even bigger neuroses (3-month office relationship).

Both were absolute hellcats in the sack. True fact.

So sure, I'm all for it.

Hard work and innovation.

Hard work from the poor.
Innovation from a select of the poor on how to exploit the other poor better.

I once submitted an idea for an alarm clock that has a light which slowly glows brighter to simulate natural light entering the room as if the sun were rising. By the time the alarm sounds, the room is nice and light. The idea is that you'll feel like you're living on a more natural sleep cycle, and will hopefully feel a little better waking up. A few years later, I saw my idea turned product selling in Skymall magazine. Those invent help people are crooks. Too poor to hire patent attorneys or launch a product? Some rich guy will just take your idea and sell it himself.

Mr_Fabulous: I've only farked two poor people in my life. One was a big-boned trailer-trash girl from Georgia (one night stand), and the other was a five-foot-nothing firecracker with massive tits and even bigger neuroses (3-month office relationship).

Both were absolute hellcats in the sack. True fact.

So sure, I'm all for it.

I know. I took Muffy San Moritz for the weekend and the whole time we were alone together she talked about how she would redecorate the room. Now for the cost of a cheap bottle of California champagne one of the office girls will gladly do things Muffy can't even pronounce.

This article is a perfect demonstration of why the inheritance tax should be about 99%.

FTFA:
"The research points to an awareness that sustaining wealth for multiple generations requires an ability to adapt to changing conditions and, at times, reinvent business or financial strategies."

Fails to mention: "Being born into a generation with wealth to sustain."

Good ideas + hard work = success.
What novel idea!

Rent Party: This article is a perfect demonstration of why the inheritance tax should be about 99%.

FTFA:
"The research points to an awareness that sustaining wealth for multiple generations requires an ability to adapt to changing conditions and, at times, reinvent business or financial strategies."

Fails to mention: "Being born into a generation with wealth to sustain."

Class envy doesn't pay the bills and hating on rich people because they have more money than you will not improve your station in life. You class warriors need to quit obsessing over what other people have and worry about your own damn self and those around you.

/not rich
//just comfortable

CSB... but depressing.

I did a bunch of work in the Saudi Arabia in the last couple of years. While over there I met a log of businessmen who were quite proud of their ability to successfully do business. I was less impressed... but its clear this is the direction America's rich would love to take us.

Build a society where there is a clear ruling class and deals are done as simply as calling up your 2nd cousin who has a good connection into branch X of the government. Then bring in lots of foreign workers (we prefer to outsource), so the labour is all done at a tiny fraction of what you sell the results for (500% markup is common). Voila! You are a successful business person.

Nevermind that you are essentially making your money off of legalized slavery. Jesus/Allah would have wanted it that way.

Rent Party: This article is a perfect demonstration of why the inheritance tax should be about 99%.

FTFA:
"The research points to an awareness that sustaining wealth for multiple generations requires an ability to adapt to changing conditions and, at times, reinvent business or financial strategies."

Fails to mention: "Being born into a generation with wealth to sustain."

Meh. If some rich guy earns his money I don't begrudge him his wealth, and don't begrudge his decisions to spend his money however he wants - yachts, mansions, butlers, professional sports teams, or passing it down to his children and grandchildren so they can live an equally opulent lifestyle.

Sure, those descendants didn't to jack shiat to be rich but their rich grandpappy did and he wanted them to be rich, so I don't see any unfairness.

Debeo Summa Credo: Meh. If some rich guy earns his money I don't begrudge him his wealth, and don't begrudge his decisions to spend his money however he wants - yachts, mansions, butlers, professional sports teams, or passing it down to his children and grandchildren so they can live an equally opulent lifestyle.

Sure, those descendants didn't to jack shiat to be rich but their rich grandpappy did and he wanted them to be rich, so I don't see any unfairness.

That's a surprisingly inconsistent view.
You won't begrudge wealth to the man who earns it, but approve of him passing it to individuals who didn't? What then, can they do with the wealth that they didn't earn?

I like the Mario Batali approach: I'll f*ck you over until I'm caught. Then, I'll f*ck you over again. I say steal the money and when the victims realize what happen, offer them another deal. Nothing wrong with screwing stupid-ass people over, as long as you do it right. Just ask DC.

So , you ask a bunch of rich people about how they got rich and surprisingly no one said. " pure luck" , "knew the right people" .
First rule of being rich. Of course I deserve to be rich.

Debeo Summa Credo: Rent Party: This article is a perfect demonstration of why the inheritance tax should be about 99%.

FTFA:
"The research points to an awareness that sustaining wealth for multiple generations requires an ability to adapt to changing conditions and, at times, reinvent business or financial strategies."

Fails to mention: "Being born into a generation with wealth to sustain."

Meh. If some rich guy earns his money I don't begrudge him his wealth, and don't begrudge his decisions to spend his money however he wants - yachts, mansions, butlers, professional sports teams, or passing it down to his children and grandchildren so they can live an equally opulent lifestyle.

Sure, those descendants didn't to jack shiat to be rich but their rich grandpappy did and he wanted them to be rich, so I don't see any unfairness.

I don't disagree with any of this. My problem is with people that inherit wealth (that would be "most of them") and then act like they earned it. Instead of listening to these clowns talking about how hard work and innovation will make you rich, I wan to hear them talk about how freaking fortunate they are to have been born into privileged and all of the unusual opportunities that presented them.

Put it this way. Donald Trump's dad left him $500 million dollars, and the dumb ass lost it all, yet he's held up as some kind of titan of industry.

Anyone who has more money than I do is evil and the government should force them to give me their money.

pute kisses like a man: but, the middle class nowadays is basically the poor, since the cost of living has gone up tenfold in the last 50 years, while the income has stayed the same.

Liberal arts degree, huh?

Rent Party: Debeo Summa Credo: Rent Party: This article is a perfect demonstration of why the inheritance tax should be about 99%.

FTFA:
"The research points to an awareness that sustaining wealth for multiple generations requires an ability to adapt to changing conditions and, at times, reinvent business or financial strategies."

Fails to mention: "Being born into a generation with wealth to sustain."

Meh. If some rich guy earns his money I don't begrudge him his wealth, and don't begrudge his decisions to spend his money however he wants - yachts, mansions, butlers, professional sports teams, or passing it down to his children and grandchildren so they can live an equally opulent lifestyle.

Sure, those descendants didn't to jack shiat to be rich but their rich grandpappy did and he wanted them to be rich, so I don't see any unfairness.

I don't disagree with any of this. My problem is with people that inherit wealth (that would be "most of them") and then act like they earned it. Instead of listening to these clowns talking about how hard work and innovation will make you rich, I wan to hear them talk about how freaking fortunate they are to have been born into privileged and all of the unusual opportunities that presented them.

Put it this way. Donald Trump's dad left him $500 million dollars, and the dumb ass lost it all, yet he's held up as some kind of titan of industry.

Ah, okay, agreed I suppose. Inheritors should be mocked if they attempt to crow about their accomplishments when it was their benefactor's efforts that allowed them to be wealthy, nor should they whine when people say they haven't earned their wealth.

But if folks come to tell them something like ' you didn't earn your wealth so you should pay more than those who did' they should be able to say "grandpa earned it and he wanted me to have the money to spend on hookers and blow. Go f yourself.'

Sergeant Grumbles: Debeo Summa Credo: Meh. If some rich guy earns his money I don't begrudge him his wealth, and don't begrudge his decisions to spend his money however he wants - yachts, mansions, butlers, professional sports teams, or passing it down to his children and grandchildren so they can live an equally opulent lifestyle.

Sure, those descendants didn't to jack shiat to be rich but their rich grandpappy did and he wanted them to be rich, so I don't see any unfairness.

That's a surprisingly inconsistent view.
You won't begrudge wealth to the man who earns it, but approve of him passing it to individuals who didn't? What then, can they do with the wealth that they didn't earn?

It's not inconsistent. I'm not going to complain about they guy using his earned money (lets assume it was earned fairly, for arguments sake) to buy yachts or donate to libraries, nor am I going to complain if he wants to give it to his worthless offspring. The money was earned by someone up the line and if he wants his descendants to have it, who are we to complain?

Inherited wealth doesn't act like they deserve it, they act like they're ENTITLED to it and are better than those low lifes who weren't born on third base.

That being said, while there needs to be a more solid inheritance tax, there does need to be vehicles that allow you to set aside money for your kin, but there does need to be a mechanism to prevent the magnetic properties of money from consolidating in a few hands. So, yeh, there needs to be some wealth redistribution, as well as provisions for inheritance.

And I say this a someone who is pretty assured of bumping into inheritance tax rates one day that will hopefully come later than sooner. Some may be my background, my parents overcame a ton of obstacles to get where they were, and came from meager means to put it mildly. They got the chance, and others should get the opportunity as well.

Debeo Summa Credo: It's not inconsistent. I'm not going to complain about they guy using his earned money (lets assume it was earned fairly, for arguments sake) to buy yachts or donate to libraries, nor am I going to complain if he wants to give it to his worthless offspring. The money was earned by someone up the line and if he wants his descendants to have it, who are we to complain?

Even by your own logic, it's only the man who earns the wealth that decides what gets to happen to it. The descendants didn't earn anything, but you're saying they should get to decide what happens to their unearned wealth after their parent passes away. Complete reversal from your original position.

By all means, if the original earner wants his offspring to spend money by the truckload on hookers and blow, he's more than welcome to do it while he's alive. Once he's gone it's a different story, and if you're against unearned wealth, you shouldn't also support those freeloader children getting a free ride on their deceased parent's money.

Nothing new in the article. Left one important piece out.

Good idea-(better product, service or delivery method)
Hard work- (No life until launch and stabilization)
Ability to take risk-(no gurantees in this life)

Equal a much better chance at success.

Every 1st generation rich person I have met had these criteria.

Only an handful of the subsequent generatons have it.

They eventually are consumed by the up and comers.

Sergeant Grumbles: Debeo Summa Credo: It's not inconsistent. I'm not going to complain about they guy using his earned money (lets assume it was earned fairly, for arguments sake) to buy yachts or donate to libraries, nor am I going to complain if he wants to give it to his worthless offspring. The money was earned by someone up the line and if he wants his descendants to have it, who are we to complain?

Even by your own logic, it's only the man who earns the wealth that decides what gets to happen to it. The descendants didn't earn anything, but you're saying they should get to decide what happens to their unearned wealth after their parent passes away. Complete reversal from your original position.

By all means, if the original earner wants his offspring to spend money by the truckload on hookers and blow, he's more than welcome to do it while he's alive. Once he's gone it's a different story, and if you're against unearned wealth, you shouldn't also support those freeloader children getting a free ride on their deceased parent's money.

The distinction is in the definition of 'unearned wealth' (btw, I don't think I said I was against unearned weatlh, merely that I don't begrudge people who earn their wealth to do what they want with it). The wealth was earned - all of it, by the original guy. He can spend it however he wants. To go to Rent Party's example, Donald Trump's dad may have made $500m. Papa Trump could've spent that on himself or given it to charity or burned it. Instead he left it to Donald to spend on whatever he wanted, hair treatments or to be an all around douchebag on TV.

Donald is a d-bag and didn't earn his wealth, and should be mocked or disdained if he tries to pass himself off as a self made man. But he should still get to spend the money however he wants because his Dad decided that's what should become of his money.

You think a person's wishes regarding their wealth should end at their death. I'm saying they earned it and their preference for its disposition after their death should be respected as well.

I don't have any problem with people becoming fabulously wealthy from their own work. I also don't have a problem with people leaving their wealth for the next generation. I have a problem with people who inherited massive amounts of money that do no contribute any labor or ideas into the economy but simply live off investment income from their inherited wealth and then have the audacity to complain about raising their taxes (capital gains) which are already way lower than rate of taxation on people who actually contribute labor and idea to the economy.

You're rich because you work your ass off, cool with me.
You're rich because your daddy worked his ass off, cool with me.
You're a trust fund baby with an entitlement complex that complains about "unfair taxation" and "class warfare," fark you in the nasal cavity.

Rich People Reveal Secrets to Becoming Wealthy

1) practice being the biggest asshole you can be

2) repeat step 1

The poor fark themselves.

Debeo Summa Credo: You think a person's wishes regarding their wealth should end at their death. I'm saying they earned it and their preference for its disposition after their death should be respected as well.

A person's wishes regarding their wealth do end at their death. You can't take it with you. That's death. Regardless of the deceased's wishes, the wealth is ultimately in the hands of someone who didn't earn it and subject to their whims. Trump's only claim to his dad's money is the genetic lottery, and given that no one is in control of whether they're born a pauper or a prince, his claim is every bit as unjustified as if you or I were to claim it because "I like money." Add in to that the detrimental effects on societies and economies as old money stagnates in few hands, and there's really not any reason to oppose a very hefty inheritance tax.

If Joe Millionaire, IV really wants to be rich, he can suck it up and earn it like his great-grandfather.

Conducted by SEI, the survey shows that 80 percent of rich people believed a person's work ethic was important in achieving financial success, and nearly all of those polled (95 percent) agreed that innovation is critical to their ability to continue being successful.

So, it's all opinion, then? Right! On with the science!

I refer you to this brilliant Cracked article, "6 Things Rich People Need to Stop Saying".

#4 - "Hey, I worked hard to get what I have."
#5 - "I did it and so can you!"

Do they sound familiar? It's EXACTLY what the rich are saying in this article's "poll". And they're both completely stricken as inaccurate in the Cracked article.

Sergeant Grumbles: Debeo Summa Credo: You think a person's wishes regarding their wealth should end at their death. I'm saying they earned it and their preference for its disposition after their death should be respected as well.

A person's wishes regarding their wealth do end at their death. You can't take it with you. That's death. Regardless of the deceased's wishes, the wealth is ultimately in the hands of someone who didn't earn it and subject to their whims. Trump's only claim to his dad's money is the genetic lottery, and given that no one is in control of whether they're born a pauper or a prince, his claim is every bit as unjustified as if you or I were to claim it because "I like money." Add in to that the detrimental effects on societies and economies as old money stagnates in few hands, and there's really not any reason to oppose a very hefty inheritance tax.

If Joe Millionaire, IV really wants to be rich, he can suck it up and earn it like his great-grandfather.

Okay, we're going to have to disagree significantly on that. I'm not opposed to some level of estate tax/ inheritance tax/income tax to heir (current rate is pretty okay to me, perhaps a small bit higher), but that's only because its just another component of the tax code, not because Joe Millionare IV doesn't "deserve" it. Other than that I think if Joe Millionaire I wants Joe Millionaire IV to never have to work a day in his life, that's fine and not unfair in any way. I wish Jebediah Ezekiel Credo, my great grandfather, had been so wealthy/generous. But he was a penniless immigrant so I have to work, damn my luck.

From the comments:

Being in the right place at the right time with the right people with the right connections (and support system) is a bigger determinant than work ethic or innovation.


Yep, yep, yep and yep. Everyone say it with me: It's not what you know, it's who you know.

StrangeQ: From the comments:

Being in the right place at the right time with the right people with the right connections (and support system) is a bigger determinant than work ethic or innovation.


Yep, yep, yep and yep. Everyone say it with me: It's not what you know, it's who you know.

No, it's not who you know, it's who knows you.

Debeo Summa Credo: Other than that I think if Joe Millionaire I wants Joe Millionaire IV to never have to work a day in his life, that's fine and not unfair in any way. I wish Jebediah Ezekiel Credo, my great grandfather, had been so wealthy/generous. But he was a penniless immigrant so I have to work, damn my luck.

That is still a remarkably inconsistent philosophy. In the same breath that you proclaim fairness, you chalk up the outcome to luck.
You can't work hard to have rich parents, so Joe Mil IV's advantage is already unfair. Joe Mil I earned his money, and decided what to do with it, but it does not, should not, extend beyond his death. Once he shuffles off this mortal coil, that money no longer belongs to him, and if it were truly fair, the genetic lottery winners he calls offspring would have no greater claim to his earnings than anyone else.

Sergeant Grumbles: Debeo Summa Credo: Other than that I think if Joe Millionaire I wants Joe Millionaire IV to never have to work a day in his life, that's fine and not unfair in any way. I wish Jebediah Ezekiel Credo, my great grandfather, had been so wealthy/generous. But he was a penniless immigrant so I have to work, damn my luck.

That is still a remarkably inconsistent philosophy. In the same breath that you proclaim fairness, you chalk up the outcome to luck.
You can't work hard to have rich parents, so Joe Mil IV's advantage is already unfair. Joe Mil I earned his money, and decided what to do with it, but it does not, should not, extend beyond his death. Once he shuffles off this mortal coil, that money no longer belongs to him, and if it were truly fair, the genetic lottery winners he calls offspring would have no greater claim to his earnings than anyone else.

Sorry, not inconsistent at all. JM I made the money, he can do what he wants with it. You seem to think he can do what he wants with it while he's alive. Should he be able to give it to his worthless son while he's alive (or to me? or to you?). If not, then you don't really think he should be able to do what he wants with his money. If so, then why does that wish get ignored once he dies.

If JM I gave the money, while alive, to an endowment to fund a library for 100 years, or to maintain a homeless shelter for as long as the funds last, when he dies should that money be returned to the estate to be taxed away? Does the library or homeless shelter not have any greater claim to the money this guy earned and wanted them to have than everyone else? If not, it's not me being inconsistent. It's you.

How to become a millionaire:

Step 1: Start with $1,000,000

Step 2: Repeat Step 1

I have some issues with a death tax and maybe some better articulation of the laws can clear it up.

Father owns $1,000,000 of real estate on which he ran his farm/ranch. Father dies and gives it to his child. Death tax says the child must pay $500,000 on the inherited million . So child sells land to cover that tax, but now no longer has enough land to sustain the farm/ranch, so the family business that was handed down is wiped out due to the tax. Might be an over-simplified example with some numbers wrong, but hopefully you get the gist.

chi_tino: pute kisses like a man: but, the middle class nowadays is basically the poor, since the cost of living has gone up tenfold in the last 50 years, while the income has stayed the same.

Liberal arts degree, huh?

yeah, philosophy and english. exactly what does that have to do with anything?

thanks to my gentlemanly studies, I was offered the opportunity to elongate my academics with a law degree. now I have a jd and a job. and it is all thanks to my liberal arts degree.

(actually, it was much more complicated than that. my post bachelorate tale starts in the kitchen of a small french restaurant, followed by a perilous dance through the world of high finance and mortgage backed securities, with an amicable breach for law school and now I've controversially turned colors and joined the fight for the bankrupt -- amongst other corporate litigation matters. but, no matter the cause and color of the story, the liberal arts degree was the meat and potatoes that fueled the endeavor)

let me guess, you have an engineering degree? they're usually the ones most ignorant of the power of the liberal arts.

(comes from family of engineers. i got no respect.)

Hyjamon: How to become a millionaire:

Step 1: Start with $1,000,000

Step 2: Repeat Step 1

I have some issues with a death tax and maybe some better articulation of the laws can clear it up.

Father owns $1,000,000 of real estate on which he ran his farm/ranch. Father dies and gives it to his child. Death tax says the child must pay $500,000 on the inherited million . So child sells land to cover that tax, but now no longer has enough land to sustain the farm/ranch, so the family business that was handed down is wiped out due to the tax. Might be an over-simplified example with some numbers wrong, but hopefully you get the gist.

Couple clarifitcations. Exemptions are well above $1m. I think it might be $7m right now if you combine it for husband/wife, so no estates below $7m would be subject to any federal estate tax.

But say it was a $25m farm - after $7m exemption maybe the estate owes $8m in federal estate taxes. The heirs can either sell the farm to pay the tax, leaving them $17m in cash, or they can seek to borrow $8m against the farm. Then they'd have to pay that loan back out of the farm income over whatever period. If the farm is worth $25m, presumably it is generating income that can be partially used to service the new debt.

Debeo Summa Credo: Sorry, not inconsistent at all.

Yep. Get over yourself.

Debeo Summa Credo: JM I made the money, he can do what he wants with it. You seem to think he can do what he wants with it while he's alive. Should he be able to give it to his worthless son while he's alive (or to me? or to you?). If not, then you don't really think he should be able to do what he wants with his money. If so, then why does that wish get ignored once he dies.

Already said JM I is free to do what he wants with the money while he's alive. As I said before, if he wants to fund his grandson's hooker and blow habit, he's more than welcome to do so while he's alive. JM IV should have no expectation of the gravy train continuing once JM I is gone if he doesn't earn sufficient income, just because he fell out of the right vagina. Why does it end when he dies? It's because he's dead. His money is no longer in his hands, and the birth lottery isn't a good way to divvy up the spoils. Pass some of it along to the children, sure, but tax it heavily under the very real assumption that no one can control who they're born to.

Debeo Summa Credo: If JM I gave the money, while alive, to an endowment to fund a library for 100 years, or to maintain a homeless shelter for as long as the funds last, when he dies should that money be returned to the estate to be taxed away? Does the library or homeless shelter not have any greater claim to the money this guy earned and wanted them to have than everyone else? If not, it's not me being inconsistent. It's you.

The endowment to the library is owned by the library. The fund for the homeless shelter belongs to the homeless shelter. And all that blow that JM IV sniffed out of a hooker's bellybutton belongs to JM IV. Or if JM IV wasn't a coke-fiend and actually made good use of his grandfather's money with his own education or investments, that belongs to JM IV as well. What JM IV doesn't get, however, is the remainder of grandpa's pie.

Hyjamon: How to become a millionaire:

Step 1: Start with $1,000,000

Step 2: Repeat Step 1

I have some issues with a death tax and maybe some better articulation of the laws can clear it up.

Father owns $1,000,000 of real estate on which he ran his farm/ranch. Father dies and gives it to his child. Death tax says the child must pay $500,000 on the inherited million . So child sells land to cover that tax, but now no longer has enough land to sustain the farm/ranch, so the family business that was handed down is wiped out due to the tax. Might be an over-simplified example with some numbers wrong, but hopefully you get the gist.

All the numbers are wrong. The inheritances tax doesn't even kick in until you've hit five million. All those bootstrappers with "million dollar businesses" don't even get touched by it, but think they do.

$5 million is a fine point to start at, but the progression of the tax rate above that needs to be a whole lot steeper.

Rent Party: All the numbers are wrong. The inheritances tax doesn't even kick in until you've hit five million. All those bootstrappers with "million dollar businesses" don't even get touched by it, but think they do.

$5 million is a fine point to start at, but the progression of the tax rate above that needs to be a whole lot steeper.

I'm not sure why all these farmers personally own all this real estate, thus ever being in danger of being hit by the inheritance tax to begin with. Can't a farmer form a commercial entity with his children to hold onto the property rights, keeping the farming business safe from the death of its farmers?

Sergeant Grumbles: Debeo Summa Credo: Sorry, not inconsistent at all.

Yep. Get over yourself.

Debeo Summa Credo: JM I made the money, he can do what he wants with it. You seem to think he can do what he wants with it while he's alive. Should he be able to give it to his worthless son while he's alive (or to me? or to you?). If not, then you don't really think he should be able to do what he wants with his money. If so, then why does that wish get ignored once he dies.

Already said JM I is free to do what he wants with the money while he's alive. As I said before, if he wants to fund his grandson's hooker and blow habit, he's more than welcome to do so while he's alive. JM IV should have no expectation of the gravy train continuing once JM I is gone if he doesn't earn sufficient income, just because he fell out of the right vagina. Why does it end when he dies? It's because he's dead. His money is no longer in his hands, and the birth lottery isn't a good way to divvy up the spoils. Pass some of it along to the children, sure, but tax it heavily under the very real assumption that no one can control who they're born to.

Debeo Summa Credo: If JM I gave the money, while alive, to an endowment to fund a library for 100 years, or to maintain a homeless shelter for as long as the funds last, when he dies should that money be returned to the estate to be taxed away? Does the library or homeless shelter not have any greater claim to the money this guy earned and wanted them to have than everyone else? If not, it's not me being inconsistent. It's you.

The endowment to the library is owned by the library. The fund for the homeless shelter belongs to the homeless shelter. And all that blow that JM IV sniffed out of a hooker's bellybutton belongs to JM IV. Or if JM IV wasn't a coke-fiend and actually made good use of his grandfather's money with his own education or investments, that belongs to JM IV as well. What JM IV doesn't get, however, is the remainder of grandpa's pie.

LOL. The endowment is owned by the library, because JM I funded the endowment while he was alive. The fund for the homeless shelter belongs to the homeless shelter, because JM I gave it to them while he was alive. Why does it change if JM I gave JM IVs his full 'inheritance' while he was alive?

If he didn't just fund the ongoing hookers and blow habit, but rather gave JM IV a hundred something million dollars and said "Here. This is yours. I want YOU to have it. Do what you want with it. It makes me happy to know that the money I earned will keep you and your descendants, if you choose to pass it on to them, in hookers and blow for centuries". Would you expect that upon JM I's death the federal government should go and take whatever's left and say 'sorry IV, you didn't earn this and therefore you have no claim to it'? If so, why shouldn't they do that to the library or homeless shelter as well?

Sergeant Grumbles: Rent Party: All the numbers are wrong. The inheritances tax doesn't even kick in until you've hit five million. All those bootstrappers with "million dollar businesses" don't even get touched by it, but think they do.

$5 million is a fine point to start at, but the progression of the tax rate above that needs to be a whole lot steeper.

I'm not sure why all these farmers personally own all this real estate, thus ever being in danger of being hit by the inheritance tax to begin with. Can't a farmer form a commercial entity with his children to hold onto the property rights, keeping the farming business safe from the death of its farmers?

If the farmer creates a commercial entity and contributes the land to it, he still owns the commercial entity, and the value of that commercial entity (which holds the land) is factored into the total value of the estate.

Now if he forms it with his children, and gives them a stake in it, he has to include the amounts given to them as part of his exemption. So if a guy has a $10m business and gives half of it to his daughter, that $5m value uses up $5m of his estate tax exemption. Anything after the exemption being used up is subject to a gift tax, which is similar to an estate tax (with a small annual exemption allowed - like $13k.)

You can't get around estate tax by just simply shuffling all your assets into a new legal entity and giving your kids each own a certain percentage of that new entity. If you could, the estate tax would be meaningless.

Debeo Summa Credo: Why does it change if JM I gave JM IVs his full 'inheritance' while he was alive?

Only thing that changes is the tax law and what JM I is willing to give away while alive. I'm all for calling income income, and taxing JM IV on his inheritance whether JM I's heart is still beating or not, but there are people who'll go to their grave screaming "DOUBLE TAXATION! DEATH TAX!", so the rules are a little different.

I'm with Rent Party in that I think the tax rate needs to have a steep slope.

Sergeant Grumbles: Rent Party: All the numbers are wrong. The inheritances tax doesn't even kick in until you've hit five million. All those bootstrappers with "million dollar businesses" don't even get touched by it, but think they do.

$5 million is a fine point to start at, but the progression of the tax rate above that needs to be a whole lot steeper.

I'm not sure why all these farmers personally own all this real estate, thus ever being in danger of being hit by the inheritance tax to begin with. Can't a farmer form a commercial entity with his children to hold onto the property rights, keeping the farming business safe from the death of its farmers?

Yes, but that doesn't make a good right wing talking point to support cutting taxes on the wealthy.