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(Telegraph)   Apparently, William Shakespeare spoke Amurikun. FARK yeah   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 245
    More: Interesting, Shakespearean, British Library, Amurikun, contemporary  
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16487 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Mar 2012 at 12:13 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-20 12:13:42 AM
Why does that picture have an earring photoshopped into it?
 
2012-03-20 12:15:24 AM
There have been several linguists who have come to the conclusion that the American South has preserved English the best. Not the drawl, but the dialects of the islands off North and South Carolina. Their relative isolation and lack of large scale immigration fluxes have done a far better job than England to preserve the sounds and cadances of English.

That is fading, as folks are exposed not just to outsiders, but radio and television, but the old timers are very much up for study to what the language used to be like--England itself is awash with all sorts of influences, including the artificial BBC English, and can't be trusted.

Not so much Amurican as much as we distill down several dialects into our own regional, while the Mother tongue went her own ways thanks to the tides if immigration and population shifts.
 
2012-03-20 12:18:30 AM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-03-20 12:18:45 AM
I'll never understand why people care about this. Does this prove something?
 
2012-03-20 12:19:53 AM
All I know is he beats Dr Seuss at rapping fast.

Link (new window)

/"I'm switching up my style like the Beatles with my pieces...."
 
2012-03-20 12:20:04 AM
What part of "Forsooth b*tch, get out yon way" don't you f*cking understand?!
 
2012-03-20 12:20:18 AM
Ye olde derpe.
 
2012-03-20 12:22:28 AM

AppleOptionEsc: I'll never understand why people care about this. Does this prove something?


Probably that there aren't many jobs these days for unemployed linguists.
 
2012-03-20 12:23:15 AM
If there's an American who sounds like that, I've never heard them speak.
 
2012-03-20 12:23:16 AM

Sid_6.7: What part of "Forsooth b*tch, get out yon way" don't you f*cking understand?!


Hark! Be there a bumper upon thyne nethers? No Nubian!
 
2012-03-20 12:24:22 AM

Gyrfalcon: AppleOptionEsc: I'll never understand why people care about this. Does this prove something?

Probably that there aren't many jobs these days for unemployed linguists.


Linguists need to be cunning to be gainfully employed.
 
2012-03-20 12:24:44 AM

Gyrfalcon: AppleOptionEsc: I'll never understand why people care about this. Does this prove something?

Probably that there aren't many jobs these days for unemployed linguists.


That's why it helps to be a cunning linguist.
 
2012-03-20 12:25:07 AM
It sounded exactly as the article state, like a cross between a contemporary Irish, Yorkshire and West Country accent.
I didn't hear any Merkin.
 
2012-03-20 12:25:27 AM
...Sounded more Irish to me than anything.

From what I understand, this is all EXTREMELY speculative. English dialects at the time varied not just town to town but neighborhood to neighborhood, to the point where saying definitively what accent someone had during Shakespeare's time is basically impossible.

That won't stop people from deciding he sounded American, but I suspect that has far more to do with parochialism than with the evidence.
 
2012-03-20 12:25:33 AM
I would dealry love to know how they support these assertions
 
2012-03-20 12:26:53 AM

ParaHandy: I would dealry love to know how they support these assertions


Look for a cell phone in an old painting from the era. That was the time agent who's report this is based on.
 
2012-03-20 12:29:37 AM
First voice is female, claims to be historically acurate. Wat.
 
2012-03-20 12:30:00 AM

Gunther: ...Sounded more Irish to me than anything.

From what I understand, this is all EXTREMELY speculative. English dialects at the time varied not just town to town but neighborhood to neighborhood, to the point where saying definitively what accent someone had during Shakespeare's time is basically impossible.

That won't stop people from deciding he sounded American, but I suspect that has far more to do with parochialism than with the evidence.


Cause Americans dominate parochial evidence.
 
2012-03-20 12:30:20 AM

AppleOptionEsc: I'll never understand why people care about this. Does this prove something?


How languages develop and how English absorbs changes, yet remains mutually intelligible is a factor of language study--especially now that there are more non-native speakers of English than native speakers. That is going to skew the language quite a ways.

Look at how the Filipenos have used English. Tagalog is an amazing tongue, and it's absorption of both English and Spanish loan words has morphed it a ways from the original language--it is not mutually intelligible to the Javanese that it's related to anymore.

You can look at the rise of Engrish as an odd mash up of Nihongo and poor English translations, and still finding some use. English is an amazingly adaptable tongue, and that adaptability and ability to accommodate various speakers' needs is a strong feature.

But no matter where English goes, it's good to have an idea where it's been too.
 
2012-03-20 12:30:22 AM

hubiestubert: There have been several linguists who have come to the conclusion that the American South has preserved English the best. Not the drawl, but the dialects of the islands off North and South Carolina. Their relative isolation and lack of large scale immigration fluxes have done a far better job than England to preserve the sounds and cadances of English.

That is fading, as folks are exposed not just to outsiders, but radio and television, but the old timers are very much up for study to what the language used to be like--England itself is awash with all sorts of influences, including the artificial BBC English, and can't be trusted.

Not so much Amurican as much as we distill down several dialects into our own regional, while the Mother tongue went her own ways thanks to the tides if immigration and population shifts.


I had heard it was Appalachia that had it best...or was that an even older English dialect?
 
2012-03-20 12:31:24 AM

AppleOptionEsc: I'll never understand why people care about this. Does this prove something?


I don't know, but every 3 months now this comes up again. It's gotten a bit old.
 
2012-03-20 12:34:37 AM
chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-03-20 12:34:56 AM

AppleOptionEsc: I'll never understand why people care about this. Does this prove something?



The article is basically a PR ad for some audio interpretations some group put together.
 
2012-03-20 12:34:57 AM

redmid17: That won't stop people from deciding he sounded American, but I suspect that has far more to do with parochialism than with the evidence.

Cause Americans dominate parochial evidence.


Of course not, I'm just picking on Subby. I'm sure there are plenty of British researchers that are positive he spoke like an Oxford professor.
 
2012-03-20 12:35:05 AM

mat catastrophe: I had heard it was Appalachia that had it best...or was that an even older English dialect?


I, for one, would love to hear A Midsummer Night's Dream done entirely in a West Virginian accent.
 
2012-03-20 12:35:16 AM

mat catastrophe: hubiestubert: There have been several linguists who have come to the conclusion that the American South has preserved English the best. Not the drawl, but the dialects of the islands off North and South Carolina. Their relative isolation and lack of large scale immigration fluxes have done a far better job than England to preserve the sounds and cadances of English.

That is fading, as folks are exposed not just to outsiders, but radio and television, but the old timers are very much up for study to what the language used to be like--England itself is awash with all sorts of influences, including the artificial BBC English, and can't be trusted.

Not so much Amurican as much as we distill down several dialects into our own regional, while the Mother tongue went her own ways thanks to the tides if immigration and population shifts.

I had heard it was Appalachia that had it best...or was that an even older English dialect?


Link (new window)
 
2012-03-20 12:35:51 AM

Gunther: redmid17: That won't stop people from deciding he sounded American, but I suspect that has far more to do with parochialism than with the evidence.

Cause Americans dominate parochial evidence.

Of course not, I'm just picking on Subby. I'm sure there are plenty of British researchers that are positive he spoke like an Oxford professor.


What do they know? They're probably British.
 
2012-03-20 12:37:17 AM

AppleOptionEsc: I'll never understand why people care about this. Does this prove something?


Alone, not so much. But with all else that is known about Shakespeare it demonstrates that instead of the stuffy snoozefest it probably was, 7th grade English should have been the most fun you had at that age aside from seven minutes of heaven with Mary Sue Gottertits. Properly performed, a Shakespeare comedy should be like the Three Stooges starring Stephen Wright, and even the more serious stuff should be tons of fun.
 
2012-03-20 12:38:02 AM

AppleOptionEsc: I'll never understand why people care about this. Does this prove something?


You're right. Why bother learning anything about history, philosophy or literature? Those dead people have nothing to teach us.
 
2012-03-20 12:38:47 AM
A theory:

The more immigration a country receives the more understandable the dialect becomes. To wit, the English language.

Australia (borderline Martian)
Scotland (jacked-up)
Ireland (jacked-up)
England (heavily accented; lots of mutant dinosaur words)
Canada (lightly accented)
United States South (lightly accented)
United States North, Midwest & West (clear)
 
2012-03-20 12:41:32 AM

redmid17: Gunther: ...Sounded more Irish to me than anything.

From what I understand, this is all EXTREMELY speculative. English dialects at the time varied not just town to town but neighborhood to neighborhood, to the point where saying definitively what accent someone had during Shakespeare's time is basically impossible.

That won't stop people from deciding he sounded American, but I suspect that has far more to do with parochialism than with the evidence.

Cause Americans dominate parochial evidence.


The leading scholars who keep pointing to those Southern American accents preserving English are oddly enough British linguists. Who've studied the migration patterns in the UK--down to the diaspora to the US and how populations have shifted within the UK.

It's not just a matter of deconstructing dialect, but looking at where populations rub up against one another, and how those populations shift and skew one another.

Be that in Boston, New York, or villages in Wales.

It is the isolation from shifting populations that has shielded pockets of America from the tides that have swept English along in the Old Country. Not perfectly, but the cadances and speed are nearly as important as the pronunciation.

For folks at the RSC that's a very neat thing to look towards--not just innovative ways to do the plays, but ways to explore the language and its history.
 
2012-03-20 12:43:57 AM

Darth Macho: United States North, Midwest & West (clear)


Only if you are from there,outside of there you sound like you have an accent.
 
2012-03-20 12:43:58 AM
And thine hath witnesed Caesar, and he hath spake, "Wench, bring me thine frothy citrous ale!" And Lo! Behold thine Orange Julius.

And Brutus, ever fond of yon fine follicles, shall posthaste be knows as yon Barber Beefcake!
 
2012-03-20 12:44:28 AM
Speaking of accents, it's always jarring to hear Adele speak in her normal voice outside of singing. It's a very intense accent. I'm not sure what part of the UK she's from, but it's really thick.
 
2012-03-20 12:48:54 AM

magu2k: Darth Macho: United States North, Midwest & West (clear)

Only if you are from there,outside of there you sound like you have an accent.


Sure, everywhere has an accent. But an outsider doesn't need subtitles to watch a movie set in Kansas. A British movie, however...
 
2012-03-20 12:49:33 AM
This topic is one of the many things that kills me about the current American right-wing. Language changes often and you need to understand more than one American county if you want to be a non-Palin-American.

tastyresearch.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-03-20 12:50:14 AM

Darth Macho: A theory:

The more immigration a country receives the more understandable the dialect becomes. To wit, the English language.

Australia (borderline Martian)
Scotland (jacked-up)
Ireland (jacked-up)
England (heavily accented; lots of mutant dinosaur words)
Canada (lightly accented)
United States South (lightly accented)
United States North, Midwest & West (clear)


It's important to understand that English has been a language for trade. It is a Germanic tongue that wound up on the British Isles, and managed to be used by the disparate people's there to communicate across several cultures. It absorbs cultural influences and is chock full of loan words because of that--and its structure allows for even wider sampling.

Isolation does play a role in dialects becoming less and less intelligible to one another--and oddly enough the dialects that rub up against one another are usually the easier for speakers to recognize.

Americans may have problems with some dialects, but others, not as much.
 
2012-03-20 12:51:00 AM

Canton: I, for one, would love to hear A Midsummer Night's Dream done entirely in a West Virginian accent.


"I will roar you as gently as any sucking dove; I will roar you, as 'twere any nightingale." = "Ima bark atcha like Lulubelle, but I don wan you ta be skeert or nothin"
 
2012-03-20 12:51:04 AM

JonBuck: Speaking of accents, it's always jarring to hear Adele speak in her normal voice outside of singing. It's a very intense accent. I'm not sure what part of the UK she's from, but it's really thick.


London, Brighton, Brixton.. according to wiki
 
2012-03-20 12:51:14 AM

JonBuck: Speaking of accents, it's always jarring to hear Adele speak in her normal voice outside of singing. It's a very intense accent. I'm not sure what part of the UK she's from, but it's really thick.


Norf London.

Darth Macho: A theory:

The more immigration a country receives the more understandable the dialect becomes. To wit, the English language.

Australia (borderline Martian)
Scotland (jacked-up)
Ireland (jacked-up)
England (heavily accented; lots of mutant dinosaur words)
Canada (lightly accented)
United States South (lightly accented)
United States North, Midwest & West (clear)


You do understand that you're more likely to view other dialects as being accented since they vary from your default, right?
 
2012-03-20 12:51:25 AM

magu2k: Darth Macho: United States North, Midwest & West (clear)

Only if you are from there,outside of there you sound like you have an accent.


Exactly.
 
2012-03-20 12:51:29 AM

Darth Macho: magu2k: Darth Macho: United States North, Midwest & West (clear)

Only if you are from there,outside of there you sound like you have an accent.

Sure, everywhere has an accent. But an outsider doesn't need subtitles to watch a movie set in Kansas. A British movie, however...


Yall onlee need subtertles if yer never seen naw pichers frm fler dor donruey yer.
 
2012-03-20 12:53:29 AM

Canton: mat catastrophe: I had heard it was Appalachia that had it best...or was that an even older English dialect?

I, for one, would love to hear A Midsummer Night's Dream done entirely in a West Virginian accent.


It's also fun to hear a North Georgian rabbi doing kiddush.
 
2012-03-20 12:54:16 AM
Great, now how about what Shakespeare actually looked like?
 
2012-03-20 12:54:48 AM

Darth Macho: magu2k: Darth Macho: United States North, Midwest & West (clear)

Only if you are from there,outside of there you sound like you have an accent.

Sure, everywhere has an accent. But an outsider doesn't need subtitles to watch a movie set in Kansas. A British movie, however...


English is a great language to bridge disparate cultures. The urban English dialects are gearing up to bridge some very heavy dialects, and they are moving with some rapidity.

For fun, try British hip hop. It's a great mélange of flavors of English all stirred up.
 
2012-03-20 12:57:18 AM
One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treadle.
 
2012-03-20 12:57:53 AM

Darth Macho: Sure, everywhere has an accent. But an outsider doesn't need subtitles to watch a movie set in Kansas. A British movie, however...


Again, you only think that because you're used to it. I'm sure there's plenty of British whining about American slang being impossible to understand.

It's just the way language works. There's no "proper" version of English that is non-accented. Not even yours.
 
2012-03-20 12:58:01 AM

WhyteRaven74: Great, now how about what Shakespeare actually looked like?


Apparently he bears a striking resemblance to Sir Francis Bacon
 
2012-03-20 12:58:05 AM

WhyteRaven74: Great, now how about what Shakespeare actually looked like?


It doesn't really matter, but this is an early portrait that many believe is accurate.

upload.wikimedia.org

Even if Shakespeare were a Martian, it wouldn't matter. We still have the plays and they are among the heights of human achievement. (Sorry, Nicki Minaj.)
 
2012-03-20 01:00:03 AM

LordOfThePings: One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treadle.


Is that the Patter I hear?
 
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