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(I Heart Chaos)   An Elder Scrolls MMO? To be announced in a couple months? Tell me more   (iheartchaos.com) divider line 245
    More: Cool, Skyrim  
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6404 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 Mar 2012 at 2:19 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-19 06:26:06 PM

Epicedion: Basically, the more detailed the story, the more you're removed from interacting on a meaningful level with other players on the "massive" scale.


OTOH, when you ditch the storyline for too much sandbox, then only the super-nerds can have any effect on anything, and thats kind of shiatty too.
 
2012-03-19 06:27:58 PM

kab: Eh. The things that make the current TES series excellent aren't going to necessarily translate well to an MMO.


Yeah, it's gonna look like Everquest... I watched my brother in law play that for hours. Never once saw him actually DO anything. Hell, I'm just glad it came out as a single player setup first, rather than an MMO and then have some weak single player port come out a few months later. I don't WANT to play online all the time. It's kind of nice to sit at home and play and not have to deal with 12 year olds with a microphone...
 
2012-03-19 06:28:59 PM

Glockenspiel Hero: Go even more- I can't remember the game, but there was one with 6 factions that worked really nicely, at least in theory. Arrange the 6 factions in a circle

1
2 3
4 5
6

if you're in faction 1 you're loved by other members of faction 1. Factions 2 and 3 like you. Factions 4 and 5 dislike you, and 6 hates your guts. For folks in faction 2, 5 hates them, etc. This allows for much more fluid alliances.



You may be thinking of Fallen Earth.
 
2012-03-19 06:30:55 PM

Treygreen13: Hagbardr: I saw a mud crab the other day.

Nasty little creatures.


Man, the first time I saw one was a few hours in, I came across my second dragon, I was still green and had now follower. Well, somehow it also happened that a Sabrecat was nearby and 2 farking Mudcrabs, never seen one before, and I basically got turned into mincemeat puree in about 1/2 a second. I got a little smarter and looked for other creatures prowling before going charging into the dragon fights now. Never ended up with extra attacking creatures ever again...
 
2012-03-19 06:31:10 PM

Smackledorfer: Epicedion: 5) A quest->level->quest->level->quest grind. Allow people to get by on resource gathering, crafting, and politics if they want.

Have a good way to do this?


Aion: Crafting and resource-gathering grant XP

Eve: Skills train themselves, even when you're logged out. You just have to decide the order in which they train.

Dark Souls: Everything grants a single currency, you spend it as you wish, including buying levels or not as you please (not an MMO, but still)

D&D Online: XP is awarded for completing modules, usually in a group, not short-cycle grinding (killing boars etc). There is enough content that you don't have to do a module more than once in the course of leveling. At least this is how I remember it, I may be attributing it to the wrong game.

DAoC: Expansion content adds parallel levels, not new levels with more skill points, so you don't become more powerful so much as more versatile. Once you hit the level cap your primary advancement is through PvP, which is at least not repetitive.

There are plenty of ways to do things that eliminate grinding or at least restrict it to the initial period preceding the endgame.
 
2012-03-19 06:32:27 PM

Treygreen13: I wonder if stealth will be hilariously broken in the MMO too...


Broken how? That you can't sneak, or that it's too easy? I sneak like a mofo in Heavy Armor, but I am enchanted to the teeth....
 
rpm
2012-03-19 06:33:28 PM
RIP Elder Scrolls.

When was the last Warcraft? Yeah, goodbye to single player.
 
2012-03-19 06:33:41 PM

Glockenspiel Hero: Drubell: Epicedion: Things Not To Put In An MMO Anymore:

1) Two playable factions at war with each other -- done to death. Put everyone on the same side, and have factions interact cooperatively, competitively, and idealistically.


Or better, bring back the 3-faction war that made DAoC great. With 2, the server is decided by whoever which side is overpopulated. With 3, all factions have more enemies than allies. I don't understand why developers don't bring this back.

Go even more- I can't remember the game, but there was one with 6 factions that worked really nicely, at least in theory. Arrange the 6 factions in a circle

  1
2    3
4    5
  6

if you're in faction 1 you're loved by other members of faction 1. Factions 2 and 3 like you. Factions 4 and 5 dislike you, and 6 hates your guts. For folks in faction 2, 5 hates them, etc. This allows for much more fluid alliances.


Fallen Earth.

I've been meaning to play that again since it went FTP.
 
2012-03-19 06:34:45 PM

Jim_Callahan: Heron: Yeah, WoW's PvP was pretty rough on melee classes. Their addition of gap closers helped a bit, but giving them only to certain classes and certain builds counter-acted that. They followed that up by giving the un-CCable escape mechanism mages have had since vanilla to all the ranged classes, and by reducing their squishiness in Cata, which made it even rougher on melees, particularly Rogues who aren't particularly survivable to begin with and have no way to improve their resistances (not that it mattered given the ridiculous native spell-pen they started giving dmg classes).

Signs that you may not be cut out for PvP:

(1) You complain that PvP is "rough" in WoW, of all games.
(2) You complain that PvP is hard as a class with a permanent stealth and a frontload attack from stealth in any game.
(3) A single purge mechanic screws you up in PvP.

Seriously, though, rogues had baseline permastealth and baseline stuns, two of 'em (sap and the actual stun stun). If that says "rough" to you you should probably stick with WoW since any other MMO will have you sticking a gun in your mouth in seconds. Especially versus casters, who are by far the thinnest paper to the rogue scissors.


This. My biggest complaints with WOW pvp was the arena system. If you mostly play the MMO with a couple of best friends and you don't happen to default to playing an overly compatible setup, you pretty much get locked out of doing arenas for anything other than cheap gear. Meanwhile you watch as every balance change is focused on arenas and the quality of every other area of pvp goes down accordingly.

Also, fark flying mounts and their destruction of world pvp. When you beat the folks ganking you, they shouldn't be able to respawn and get a free regroup via flying mount, then sit there 50 yards in the air until you pull a couple mobs to go after you. The ganking twerp crowd should be every bit as corpsecampable upon losing their live-to-harass style of gameplay as they are capable of completely preventing you from playing any other aspect of the game. I freakin loved world pvp prior to flying mounts. Sure, there were times when you were so camped it meant logging off and doing something else, but there was also "hey dipshiat, you tried to gank the wrong guy, watch as I kill you 4 times in a row and force you to spirit rez or logoff". Or questing with my friends while stealthed as a druid, knowing we'd encounter a ganksquad before long, and never coming out of stealth until someone made the attempt. I'd be stealthed with my druid and my brother on his rogue, and our buddies would do the questing while we waited to countergank. Good times.

/sorry heron. I've got you favorited if it makes you feel better.
 
2012-03-19 06:35:46 PM
My dog barked at a squirrel the other day, causing it to fall out of a tree. Pretty sure my dog is the dovahkiin.

/csb
 
2012-03-19 06:38:16 PM
www.purerockradio.net

Awesome! I call dibs on playing Gene Simmons.
 
2012-03-19 06:43:53 PM
So would we all be Dovakhiin/super special heroes, or random townsfolk/mercs? Can't see the former working out too well.
 
2012-03-19 06:50:55 PM
Meanwhile, at Blizzard...

www.blogcdn.com

/yiff
 
2012-03-19 06:52:45 PM

Jim_Callahan: Heron: Yeah, WoW's PvP was pretty rough on melee classes. Their addition of gap closers helped a bit, but giving them only to certain classes and certain builds counter-acted that. They followed that up by giving the un-CCable escape mechanism mages have had since vanilla to all the ranged classes, and by reducing their squishiness in Cata, which made it even rougher on melees, particularly Rogues who aren't particularly survivable to begin with and have no way to improve their resistances (not that it mattered given the ridiculous native spell-pen they started giving dmg classes).

Signs that you may not be cut out for PvP:

(1) You complain that PvP is "rough" in WoW, of all games.
(2) You complain that PvP is hard as a class with a permanent stealth and a frontload attack from stealth in any game.
(3) A single purge mechanic screws you up in PvP.

Seriously, though, rogues had baseline permastealth and baseline stuns, two of 'em (sap and the actual stun stun). If that says "rough" to you you should probably stick with WoW since any other MMO will have you sticking a gun in your mouth in seconds. Especially versus casters, who are by far the thinnest paper to the rogue scissors.


Yeah, and any mage can just blink right the hell out of it, as can a few other classes as of Cata. And you only have a gap closer if you're subtlety. So there goes your argument. I didn't even play rogues and I can see how that screws a frontloading class right the hell over.
 
2012-03-19 06:55:22 PM
I hope this is not true. It seems like every game that goes MMO kills the series. For example, Warcraft was a decent strategy game, kind of like Starcraft. Yet I doubt we will ever see another Warcraft game outside of WOW. One of my favorite series, SW:KOTOR, will never be a stand alone title again. No more awesome story lines. Instead we are left with mindless fetch quests, grind sessions, and mandatory group parties in order to do or see the cooler parts of the universe.

I am more of casual gamer and love to play these games for like 1 or 2 at a time. This is no longer possible for MMOs. Now, one of the only epic RPGs left is TES and if it goes MMO, so does the single player stand alone titles.
 
2012-03-19 06:59:46 PM

EngineerAtWork: I hope this is not true. It seems like every game that goes MMO kills the series. For example, Warcraft was a decent strategy game, kind of like Starcraft. Yet I doubt we will ever see another Warcraft game outside of WOW. One of my favorite series, SW:KOTOR, will never be a stand alone title again. No more awesome story lines. Instead we are left with mindless fetch quests, grind sessions, and mandatory group parties in order to do or see the cooler parts of the universe.

I am more of casual gamer and love to play these games for like 1 or 2 at a time. This is no longer possible for MMOs. Now, one of the only epic RPGs left is TES and if it goes MMO, so does the single player stand alone titles.


The story lines are pretty damn good in SWTOR so far. It's damn near 8 sequels for the price of one.

I don't know if they converge on some big bad, but I'm digging the ones I've done so far.
 
2012-03-19 07:00:01 PM

Cyno01: Meanwhile, at Blizzard...


I especially like the 1 minute CC monks will have. Paralysis.

Hopefully we'll be able to do pet battles while CC'd.
 
2012-03-19 07:02:32 PM

Jim_Callahan: Smackledorfer: Epicedion: 5) A quest->level->quest->level->quest grind. Allow people to get by on resource gathering, crafting, and politics if they want.

Have a good way to do this?

Aion: Crafting and resource-gathering grant XP

Eve: Skills train themselves, even when you're logged out. You just have to decide the order in which they train.

Dark Souls: Everything grants a single currency, you spend it as you wish, including buying levels or not as you please (not an MMO, but still)

D&D Online: XP is awarded for completing modules, usually in a group, not short-cycle grinding (killing boars etc). There is enough content that you don't have to do a module more than once in the course of leveling. At least this is how I remember it, I may be attributing it to the wrong game.

DAoC: Expansion content adds parallel levels, not new levels with more skill points, so you don't become more powerful so much as more versatile. Once you hit the level cap your primary advancement is through PvP, which is at least not repetitive.

There are plenty of ways to do things that eliminate grinding or at least restrict it to the initial period preceding the endgame.


You responded to part of the post without reading the second bit. The parts I said after "have a good way to do this" were kind of important :). I wanted to know how one would "get by on resource gathering, crafting, and politics" in an mmorpg, particularly with regard to the overall system. I'm all for crafting yielding some experience, like in aion, although you still wouldn't be getting by without doing any combat. Though I did get some pretty big chunks collecting aether. But outside of aether you couldn't do all your collecting without combat.



You know, as I think about how to put my various complaints of the crafting systems into words, I'd almost like an mmorpg where you are limited to a single character. Further, maxing a tradeskill would come at the cost of a significant amount of your combat skills. This would limit the successful crafters on the server so that there could be healthy trading (as opposed to wow, where crafting was only valuable if you got the lucky recipe, and beyond that collection tradeskills made the real money). But it could only work in a game that didn't involve min-maxing PVE and PVP competitions. That means no arena and no raiding.

I guess what I want is for tradeskills to matter more, but without the character restriction having them matter more means my mage can't be my scribe, otherwise I just wasted a shiat ton of skill points and have a shiatty mage, or I roll two characters. UO was always a little frustrating to me on that area. I wouldn't have minded that handicap if it weren't for the fact that another player would just have 2 guys. I don't want a stable of characters in order to participate in tradeskills. I also don't want to have to find rare bind on pickup raid recipes.

Also, I find that in the crafting end of things, item improvement works much better in mmorpgs than crafting new items. The latter blends with the loot tables, the former bounces up and down between hugely overpowered source of a great weapon, and being worthless until the next expansion hits to level the raid gear. I liked the item improvement of asheron's call 2. If you failed to improve it, the item got worse and you were out the rare materials. You could improve any weapon or armor, multiple times. But of course, you'd end up trashing the item if you pushed it too hard.
 
2012-03-19 07:11:03 PM

Heron: Yeah, and any mage can just blink right the hell out of it, as can a few other classes as of Cata. And you only have a gap closer if you're subtlety. So there goes your argument. I didn't even play rogues and I can see how that screws a frontloading class right the hell over.


You didn't play a rogue, yet complained that they weren't successful in pvp? Have you checked the breakdown of classes and representation on pvp servers as well as their representation on teams in arenas? Rogues, from the beginning of WOW to cataclysm, were doing pretty well. Well enough to be consistently represented in high level pvp, and fun enough to be a consistently overpicked class when compared to the population of players. What more can a class ask for balance-wise?

Now, were, at all points, all their possible skill builds equal? Not really. However, at least respeccing to the build of the xpack didn't mean changing your class entirely. I played a druid from the beginning, where it was resto only and balance/feral sucked for a very long time. Those two specs were completely different playstyles to resto, so when looking at balance for arena play it was damn painful to see restoration get brought in line by doing a base-nerf to the class, punishing the other two specs.

Oh, you feel like participating? Ya, you need to respec like everyone else.
Ok, but umm, that means getting all different gear and having a completely different character....

But after the first xpack much of the major playability issues went away with the exception of the arena, which was just a balance and fun-destroying minigame for pvpers all the way around.
 
2012-03-19 07:12:19 PM
Damn, I hope not. The reason I liked the ES series was the fact that it's MMO without the 2nd M.
 
2012-03-19 07:25:02 PM
LOL at Bethesda trying an MMO when they can't even make balanced and non glitchy single player games.


Even with Skyrim's popularity, Bethesda won't be able to get that asian market, you know the people who make up the biggest percentage of mmo players. Asia doesn't like western rpgs, they like stuff like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-gkFL7G8ow

Personally, I'd much rather see something like I could play Skyrim with some friends(obviously they'd have to find a better balance of difficulty since in Skyrim I killed Alduin in a single hit on master without using any glitches or any fortify restoration and not even sneak attacks)

I'm not the kind of guy who wants to lead every guild. Hell, you still end up taking jobs from other members and get treated the same anyway, might as well have NPC guild leaders.

There are lots of possibilities though with small multiplayer. Just imagine a friend steals some cabbages and gets caught. You can go pay his bounty. You could let him rot in jail, you could bust the place up, or you could sneak him and sneak him out.
 
2012-03-19 07:29:28 PM

BloodFireDeath: Asia doesn't like western rpgs, they like stuff like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-gkFL7G8ow


That doesn't look half bad.
 
2012-03-19 07:32:55 PM

raygundan: Epicedion: Balanced match-based PvP. Balancing all the classes against each other ruins uniqueness.

Yes, a thousand times yes. Ditch balance. It's nonsense in an RPG.


Exactly. A paladin for example is the chosen warrior of god (or gods), personally blessed and extensively trained. Damn right he should be able to kick the asses or two or three people concurrently (depending on their class). Don't like it, make friends and take him down. Balancing a MMPORG down so 1v1 is always fair defeats the whole point of community based game play. You should need to cooperate extensively to get anywhere. Otherwise it becomes a bunch of solo people grinding.
 
2012-03-19 07:44:53 PM

scottydoesntknow: Meh, call me when they start announcing Skyrim DLC.

More specificially, the inevitable breaking of the White-Gold Concordant and all out war between the Empire and Thalmor.


I would totally buy that. The Thalmor are such douches.
 
2012-03-19 07:50:25 PM

ordinarysteve: scottydoesntknow: Meh, call me when they start announcing Skyrim DLC.

More specificially, the inevitable breaking of the White-Gold Concordant and all out war between the Empire and Thalmor.

I would totally buy that. The Thalmor are such douches.


I make sure I carry around an extra set of armor and weapon to give to any prisoners they may be escorting. He doesn't always live, but the Thalmor always die.

I have a real problem with the civil war though. It sounds like Ulfric would kick my Argonian butt out of Skyrim if he had his way, but I think the Empire isn't much better on the treatment of the bestial races front. I've avoided too much direct involvement in the war so far.
 
2012-03-19 07:52:36 PM
Still waiting on a true Shadowrun MMO and I'll probably be waiting FOREVER...
No true factions , no levels, creative thinking is tops and gear EVERYTHING you ever thought of and tons of stuff you hadn't
 
2012-03-19 07:57:19 PM

ha-ha-guy: raygundan: Epicedion: Balanced match-based PvP. Balancing all the classes against each other ruins uniqueness.

Yes, a thousand times yes. Ditch balance. It's nonsense in an RPG.

Exactly. A paladin for example is the chosen warrior of god (or gods), personally blessed and extensively trained. Damn right he should be able to kick the asses or two or three people concurrently (depending on their class). Don't like it, make friends and take him down. Balancing a MMPORG down so 1v1 is always fair defeats the whole point of community based game play. You should need to cooperate extensively to get anywhere. Otherwise it becomes a bunch of solo people grinding.


So why don't we all play paladins, exactly?
 
2012-03-19 07:59:20 PM

Smackledorfer: ha-ha-guy: raygundan: Epicedion: Balanced match-based PvP. Balancing all the classes against each other ruins uniqueness.

Yes, a thousand times yes. Ditch balance. It's nonsense in an RPG.

Exactly. A paladin for example is the chosen warrior of god (or gods), personally blessed and extensively trained. Damn right he should be able to kick the asses or two or three people concurrently (depending on their class). Don't like it, make friends and take him down. Balancing a MMPORG down so 1v1 is always fair defeats the whole point of community based game play. You should need to cooperate extensively to get anywhere. Otherwise it becomes a bunch of solo people grinding.

So why don't we all play paladins, exactly?


Or better yet, why are paladins a playable class if they are intended to be so OP?
 
2012-03-19 08:00:13 PM

meat0918: I have a real problem with the civil war though. It sounds like Ulfric would kick my Argonian butt out of Skyrim if he had his way, but I think the Empire isn't much better on the treatment of the bestial races front. I've avoided too much direct involvement in the war so far.


I want a game that takes place in one of the "bestial" countries, and a storyline which involves fighting for non-humanoid rights.
 
2012-03-19 08:02:24 PM

meat0918: ordinarysteve: scottydoesntknow: Meh, call me when they start announcing Skyrim DLC.

More specificially, the inevitable breaking of the White-Gold Concordant and all out war between the Empire and Thalmor.

I would totally buy that. The Thalmor are such douches.

I make sure I carry around an extra set of armor and weapon to give to any prisoners they may be escorting. He doesn't always live, but the Thalmor always die.

I have a real problem with the civil war though. It sounds like Ulfric would kick my Argonian butt out of Skyrim if he had his way, but I think the Empire isn't much better on the treatment of the bestial races front. I've avoided too much direct involvement in the war so far.


Yeah, the storm-cloaks are bit too apartheid-ey for me. The empire are a bunch of roman-wannabe douches as well. They should totally introduce a better third option. I'd like to see the protagonist lead that third option. And than I get to buy a balling-ass castle. I would buy the shiat out of that.
 
2012-03-19 08:04:21 PM

Heron: Yeah, and any mage can just blink right the hell out of it, as can a few other classes as of Cata. And you only have a gap closer if you're subtlety. So there goes your argument. I didn't even play rogues and I can see how that screws a frontloading class right the hell over.


Sprint
Vanish
Cloak of Shadows as you run up to them at normal speed
Goblin rocket boots if you feel like being hilarious
Gnomish net gun
Have your dots loaded with your opener
Have your partner with charge waiting for them to pop their escapes
Slowing poison
Blink glitch meaning they only go about a foot, and in the wrong direction (about 10% of the time)
Blind
Smoke bomb while you run up at normal speed
Get behind cover until flag drops, then dash up on mount
Burn your Sap on them once or twice (depending if you're sub) to make them blow escapes before you pounce, like someone that's not an idiot

Seems like plenty of recourse to me.

Also, Blink didn't work through stun until recently. Recently enough that you have a second spec. In which case, "boo hoo, I'm not sub" just makes you a shiat player, how is "sneak around spec" not one of the two primary specs you choose as a damned stealth class?
 
2012-03-19 08:06:42 PM

meat0918: Smackledorfer: ha-ha-guy: raygundan: Epicedion: Balanced match-based PvP. Balancing all the classes against each other ruins uniqueness.

Yes, a thousand times yes. Ditch balance. It's nonsense in an RPG.

Exactly. A paladin for example is the chosen warrior of god (or gods), personally blessed and extensively trained. Damn right he should be able to kick the asses or two or three people concurrently (depending on their class). Don't like it, make friends and take him down. Balancing a MMPORG down so 1v1 is always fair defeats the whole point of community based game play. You should need to cooperate extensively to get anywhere. Otherwise it becomes a bunch of solo people grinding.

So why don't we all play paladins, exactly?

Or better yet, why are paladins a playable class if they are intended to be so OP?


Well, everyone ELSE is supposed to pick peasant farmer class. That lets them charge first into battle with a pitchfork. Then when they are all dead, the paladins will fight one another, and then charge the people who rolled peasant class a fee for resurrection. Because god needs money. Also, I believe paladins would get to eat free and take a proceed of the peasant's earnings.

This sounds like a realistic and fun game!

/I call high king. There can only be one.
 
Skr
2012-03-19 08:11:20 PM
Much rather them focus on DLC property and Fallout 4. Leave MMO talent sinks to other companies. The core game is sweet but Bethesda really achieves greatness via fan modifications. In addition to most of the game mechanics that make the single player awesome, the lore and world do not feel like they'd belong in a MMO world.

Their multiplayer foray with Brink didn't go so well, it definitely didn't give me the impression they were ready to turn it up to 11 in a MMO
 
2012-03-19 08:11:37 PM

ordinarysteve: meat0918: ordinarysteve: scottydoesntknow: Meh, call me when they start announcing Skyrim DLC.

More specificially, the inevitable breaking of the White-Gold Concordant and all out war between the Empire and Thalmor.

I would totally buy that. The Thalmor are such douches.

I make sure I carry around an extra set of armor and weapon to give to any prisoners they may be escorting. He doesn't always live, but the Thalmor always die.

I have a real problem with the civil war though. It sounds like Ulfric would kick my Argonian butt out of Skyrim if he had his way, but I think the Empire isn't much better on the treatment of the bestial races front. I've avoided too much direct involvement in the war so far.

Yeah, the storm-cloaks are bit too apartheid-ey for me. The empire are a bunch of roman-wannabe douches as well. They should totally introduce a better third option. I'd like to see the protagonist lead that third option. And than I get to buy a balling-ass castle. I would buy the shiat out of that.


i really wanted to kill both... but, i've made characters who go either way. basically, my dark elf went empire and my nord went ulfric.

/ it's the lombards and the romans, and the elves are carthage or something.
// thinking of it that way, i support ulfric more, because when rome fell, it was time. but, i really disliked the disparate treatment of the non-nord. so, i don't support ulfric, but i support the fall of the empire.
 
2012-03-19 08:14:59 PM

Jim_Callahan: Blink didn't work through stun until recently


You sure about that? I'm pretty sure it always did.

wowwikki mentions a 2005 patch change in which blink's stun escaping was applied to more mob stuns than before, which means it was at least in at that point.

So at the very least, it wasn't THAT recent.
 
2012-03-19 08:18:43 PM

meat0918: Or better yet, why are paladins a playable class if they are intended to be so OP?


In D&D and Warhammer-derived settings, Paladins are only defensively overpowered, they can take down several people before they drop because they wear heavy armor and resists and can heal themselves moderately well. They do shiat for damage, though, and can generally be "defeated" by ignoring them save for some cc and killing everyone else first. Applies in WoW as much as any other RPG.

The usual balance paradigm in MMOs is generally some variant of rock/paper/scissors and not one-on-one anyhow. Caster generally beats heavy melee, stealth/melee dps generally beats caster, heavy melee generally beats (literally) stealth/light melee. Then the _good_ games work in lizard and spock just to keep things moving, and add a meta-level system to require players to react to unexpected skill sets. My favorite will always be DAoC, which solved the whole "hey, I know what that guy is and how to counter it" issue by only giving you nameplates with class type on friendlies.
 
2012-03-19 08:24:24 PM

Smackledorfer: wowwikki mentions a 2005 patch change in which blink's stun escaping was applied to more mob stuns than before, which means it was at least in at that point.

So at the very least, it wasn't THAT recent.


Interesting. I've generally avoided classes that require cc to maintain range, but I did play a mage the first couple years. Maybe it worked, but didn't remove the stun or something?

Honestly I spent most of my time cursing the stupid spell for not working at all, the current 1/10 fail rate is actually a massive improvement in either the spell calculations of the terrain. At the start is was more like a 1% chance of working at all and a 10% chance of falling through the world. Which, admittedly, did get you away from whoever was attacking you.
 
2012-03-19 08:30:53 PM

Jim_Callahan: Maybe it worked, but didn't remove the stun or something?


All I know is as long as I can remember my druid could pounce/bash a mage and reliably expect a blink, which would immediately followed by a feral charge.

And as you say, I'd love it when I could get them facing a rock, or on uneven terrain, such that they went nowhere.

good times.
 
MBK [TotalFark]
2012-03-19 08:31:29 PM

pute kisses like a man: if you find combat to be too easy, change the difficulty.


The problem is that the combat isn't too easy, it is just...too boring.


From level 1 to 50 or whatever, it is the same type of combat.
 
2012-03-19 08:32:13 PM
I have some more for you, Submitter.

It'll be as god awful boring as the Elder Scrolls titles + a grindy MMO.

Now go make me a Fallout MMO, Bethesda, and make sure you use the Obsidian writers, because yours suck.
 
2012-03-19 08:34:40 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Khellendros: My whiny two cents: Every fantasy MMO has been the same thing over and over again - a story you can't affect, masses of heroes running around grinding for items and money in re-spawning instances and quests, while being limited to various level-based growth tracks that one cannot deviate from (lest they become sub-optimized and useless while playing with others).

Change what a fantasy MMO has been since the Everquest days, and maybe I'll be interested. Stop recreating the same game with the same mechanics and putting a new IP skin on it. Every other video game type has evolved, why is the MMO world stuck in the same setup since 1999? EQ1&2, WoW, AoC, SWTOR, Guild Wars.... and those are just the one's I've played (or seen played). They're all the same game. Let's actually mature the field a bit.

Because that is what MMO players want and people like you don't stick with an MMO. Seriously there has been a few MMO's that were different then what you describe, but they failed to either attract or keep people. Then there are the MMO's that run out of money, building an MMO is extremely expensive and has caused the death of more then one company.


You're exactly right, of course. That's why I called it my "whiny" two cents. It sells, and there's millions of people who love it. It just kills me that it's all still the same structure, the same idea, the same grinding, the same gear-to-level matching. The same instance/quest driven objectives. The same static story. And while all of my friends eat it up and anxiously wait for the next one, I just read the beta notes and sigh, and go back to playing something else.

Don't get me wrong, I don't "hate" the games, or those that play them. I just can't derive any joy from the modern MMO gaming structure.
 
2012-03-19 08:35:42 PM
Plus it will have three factions for you to play in

That's enough to keep me interested. This is Matt Firor's project, right? Zenimax Studios? Been waiting to hear info on it for some time now.
 
2012-03-19 08:39:51 PM

scottydoesntknow: Ramien: scottydoesntknow: Meh, call me when they start announcing Skyrim DLC.

More specificially, the inevitable breaking of the White-Gold Concordant and all out war between the Empire and Thalmor.

I'm hoping for a full game out of that. A DLC version wouldn't cover enough space to make my utter destruction of the Thalmor as epic as it deserves.

//Stupid elves.

An expansion like Dragon Age: Awakenings would work fine. That was an additional 20+ hours of gaming.


Only 20 hours?

I want blood to run from the highest peak of Skyrim's mountains, staining the Black Marsh of Cyrodil red, encompassing all the known lands and those yet uncharted in chaos and slaughter until the red tide washes ashore on the Summerset Isles and sends the Altmer to meet their Dwemer kin. I want war, not a skirmish. Something that makes the Stormcloak Rebellion appear as the tantrum of a spoiled brat. This is not just a war about one man or god, this is a war about an empire deciding if it will reclaim its former glory, if humanity can work together under a common cause instead of turning inward and destroying themselves. In short, whether humanity or Altmer are right - can humans achieve greatness? Can the greatest humans take their places amongst the divine?

//Would love to see the older areas updated and brought forward into a single game.
 
2012-03-19 09:02:32 PM

Ramien: scottydoesntknow: Ramien: scottydoesntknow: Meh, call me when they start announcing Skyrim DLC.

More specificially, the inevitable breaking of the White-Gold Concordant and all out war between the Empire and Thalmor.

I'm hoping for a full game out of that. A DLC version wouldn't cover enough space to make my utter destruction of the Thalmor as epic as it deserves.

//Stupid elves.

An expansion like Dragon Age: Awakenings would work fine. That was an additional 20+ hours of gaming.

Only 20 hours?

I want blood to run from the highest peak of Skyrim's mountains, staining the Black Marsh of Cyrodil red, encompassing all the known lands and those yet uncharted in chaos and slaughter until the red tide washes ashore on the Summerset Isles and sends the Altmer to meet their Dwemer kin. I want war, not a skirmish. Something that makes the Stormcloak Rebellion appear as the tantrum of a spoiled brat. This is not just a war about one man or god, this is a war about an empire deciding if it will reclaim its former glory, if humanity can work together under a common cause instead of turning inward and destroying themselves. In short, whether humanity or Altmer are right - can humans achieve greatness? Can the greatest humans take their places amongst the divine?

//Would love to see the older areas updated and brought forward into a single game.


I've avoided taking sides in my game. I would side with Ulfric, but I think dividing the human holdings is stupid and will be problematic in the future.

If Ulfric really wanted me to help him become high king, he would march on summerset.
 
2012-03-19 09:16:10 PM
It was called Vvardenfell, was going to be a GMUD and was being designed in 1998. Around June 1999, when EverQuest was announced, it wound up going from the first GMUD to use a pay-for-play model and became the first game officially signed as an exclusive for the Xbox. Notice the whole Xbox 1 problem of four uyears between announcement and delivery...

/I would know, I had Daggerfall and the old-as-Hell E-mails they'd send out about The Elder Scrolls III were farking cryptic beyond belief. Some people thought that either we were going to see the other continent aside from Tamriel, or we were going to go to Oblivion.
//Bethesda is still in the doghouse for shiatcanning Fallout 3 and giving us a decent-if-cloned FO mod for TES IV: Oblivion. Thankfully, they got Brian Fargo to work on Fallout 4 FOR A SHIATLOAD OF MONEY out of the kindness of his heart.
///Skyrim is the WORST Elder Scrolls system so far, including the old-school cell phone ones (yeah, I bought them. All 5. Shoot me.). Dual wielding does not a saving grace make, and the whole thing feels like it should have Bishounen lighting effects and five-minute spell animations to appeal to the terminally short-attention-span crowd. There. I said it. It's a farking JRPG with pretty graphics.
 
2012-03-19 09:24:45 PM
I hate to say this, but the same problem was going on well before EQ came out. Having played on several MUDs well before 1999, the original MMO, endgame is still a problem.

In an RPG, people generally need a reason to play and interact with others. That typically means questing of some sort for an item.

I loved WoW but 6 months was enough time for me.

What I'd like to see is a MMO with tools that enable normal users to create professional-looking content - basically world creation. I always though NWN had a great concept but it was too limited.

My favorite times playing MMOs were when I felt like I was directly affecting change in my environment, like I was the hero in a story. Everything else just became tiresome after a while. PVP was fun until I'd come back into a fight and the guy I was fighting had spent 20 hours a day grinding new equipment.

I also really loved roleplaying but roleplay can be very restrictive in an MMO where things are more or less locked down.

I think the idea of making a world that appeals to thousands of people all playing at the same time is great but...I honestly think it's a pipe dream. So MMOs go after the hardcore players, because economically that's where the money is.
 
2012-03-19 09:32:36 PM

palan:

I've avoided taking sides in my game. I would side with Ulfric, but I think dividing the human holdings is stupid and will be problematic in the future.

If Ulfric really wanted me to help him become high king, he would march on summerset.


The rebellion itself was at least partly started by the Thalmor, if you managed to find those books. Ulfric is a pawn, despite his aspirations, and has forced much of the schism between Skyrim and the Empire himself (Talos worship was 'overlooked' and not punished before he began agitating). His actions gave the Thalmor a reason to involve themselves deeper in Skyrim politics under the auspices of the Concordat.

He forgot the Thalmor were the true enemy, and chose to fight a battle that would allow them to divide and conquer the region. My Dovahkiin had more claim to the thrones of Skyrim and the Empire - he obviously was Talos reborn, after all.
 
2012-03-19 09:33:52 PM

bdub77: My favorite times playing MMOs were when I felt like I was directly affecting change in my environment, like I was the hero in a story. Everything else just became tiresome after a while. PVP was fun until I'd come back into a fight and the guy I was fighting had spent 20 hours a day grinding new equipment.


WoW's phasing offers some solutions to that at least. You could phase some things based on personal or guild accomplishments in a MMO. The trick though is too much phasing takes everything out of whack.
 
2012-03-19 09:38:37 PM
Here, I made you this fine rug! Meow!
 
2012-03-19 09:39:54 PM
Jeez WoW was that terrible for some of you, huh?

/crosses fingers for GW2
 
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