I think that if we can get Marauder Shields nominated as the most important video game character at the VGAs this year it might send a message to EA.

Dimensio: Fascinating.

Man, it sucks hard for the guy who posted this on that thread, given the ending we got is pretty much both lumped together.

Exactly. There are two endings I wouldn't like for ME 3. One being a random GOD LIKE force that saves the Galaxy or another being that to defeat the Reapers, everyone has to become a primitivst and destroy the Relays, Citadel, etc. Both would make me pretty unhappy as those endings have been done to death.

HalEmmerich: Dimensio: Fascinating.

Man, it sucks hard for the guy who posted this on that thread, given the ending we got is pretty much both lumped together.

Exactly. There are two endings I wouldn't like for ME 3. One being a random GOD LIKE force that saves the Galaxy or another being that to defeat the Reapers, everyone has to become a primitivst and destroy the Relays, Citadel, etc. Both would make me pretty unhappy as those endings have been done to death.

I just occurred to me your link went straight to that comment and that's what you were pointing out, I originally scrolled up the thread when it first loaded. Oops.

FYI: Amazon are now accepting opened copies of ME3 for a full refund (assuming you brought it from them in the first place).

That's... well... not looking too clever really is it?

YOU GUYS ARE RUINING MASS EFFECT BY MAKING IT HOMOGENIZED AND LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR!

OMG! WHAT IS THIS INTERPRETIVE, SPIRITUAL BULLCRAP?!?! WHERE'S MY HOMOGENIZED, LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR ENDING?!?!?!?

/the internet
//there is NO pleasing it

Liberal_With_a_Gun: YOU GUYS ARE RUINING MASS EFFECT BY MAKING IT HOMOGENIZED AND LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR!

OMG! WHAT IS THIS INTERPRETIVE, SPIRITUAL BULLCRAP?!?! WHERE'S MY HOMOGENIZED, LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR ENDING?!?!?!?

/the internet
//there is NO pleasing it

Hmmm ... all caps and obviously has not read the thread. Next time just type "I'm an idiot" in all caps ... we'll get the same message but it will save time.

Liberal_With_a_Gun: YOU GUYS ARE RUINING MASS EFFECT BY MAKING IT HOMOGENIZED AND LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR!

OMG! WHAT IS THIS INTERPRETIVE, SPIRITUAL BULLCRAP?!?! WHERE'S MY HOMOGENIZED, LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR ENDING?!?!?!?

/the internet
//there is NO pleasing it



Clever and well informed.
We're all a little more enlightened today-thanks!

Didn't buy the day 1 DLC, cause fark you, I just bought the game and your already trying to rape me harder. I also rented the game, since after seeing Battlefield try to charge people who rent the game to play online, I said fark EA and their origins right in there origins. And after that ending I couldn't get the game in the mail fast enough, cause what a shiate ending that was. I mean really. Which way do I go if I want to make the ending not suck? Oh they are all pretty much the same, then thank god I didn't really waste any money on that garbage. DLC is about to get on my last damn nerve for games too. Something like I hope Skyrim will give us, thats fine. Cause that game was amazing already, I'll gladly give them a little bit more for a good expansion. But fark ME2 &3 for trying to sell me one more mission for like 10 bucks. Eat a whole bag of dicks, you greedy scumbags.

sprawl15: Were the God AI around, Sovereign would be utterly unnecessary. The AI would know that people are on the Citadel because he's already right there. The only way this would make sense is if the God AI were subservient to the Reapers...which makes no sense, considering the God AI runs them. It also makes ME2 completely irrelevant for similar reasons; the AI orders a replacement Reaper built to...go to the place the AI already is and tell the AI what it already knows?

Not at all. If he set up the program he doesn't have to come into play if something went wrong.

and after ME I and II.... something clearly went wrong

So my readiness being at 50% going into that final battle was cause I didn't play any multi-player?

karasoth: Not at all. If he set up the program he doesn't have to come into play if something went wrong.

and after ME I and II.... something clearly went wrong

Sovereign needed to tell the keepers to tell the Citadel to activate the relay and bring the Reapers over, but the Protheans learned how to stop Sovereign from telling the keepers. That's why Sovereign needed to physically get to the Citadel: to manually activate the relay. ME1 was about Sovereign's attempts to get the forces together that he'd need to accomplish that task.

When you consider ME3, and note that the Space Baby is the Citadel and is controlling Sovereign, it makes the whole need to get there completely pointless; the AI can fire up the relay on its own and cut out the keeper middleman. The AI also, being part of the Citadel, would have full knowledge on tech levels of the various races, so even the very existence of Sovereign makes no sense anymore (as he was supposedly the eyes/ears of the Reapers).

Really, ME1 and 2 were battles for control of the Citadel to keep it away from the Big Bads; one overt, one covert. Then ME3 lets you know that the Citadel was really the Big Bads' Boss the whole time. I really can't see what Sovereign's (or the Human Slurry Terminator's) goal really was in this context.

Well, at least EA/Bioware didn't eat my eyes.

Nick Spiceyweiner: So my readiness being at 50% going into that final battle was cause I didn't play any multi-player?

As far as I can tell from reading various posts, yes.

karasoth: sprawl15: Were the God AI around, Sovereign would be utterly unnecessary. The AI would know that people are on the Citadel because he's already right there. The only way this would make sense is if the God AI were subservient to the Reapers...which makes no sense, considering the God AI runs them. It also makes ME2 completely irrelevant for similar reasons; the AI orders a replacement Reaper built to...go to the place the AI already is and tell the AI what it already knows?

Not at all. If he set up the program he doesn't have to come into play if something went wrong.

and after ME I and II.... something clearly went wrong

But it still makes no sense. Let me explain it this way. You're a terrorist leader that's been able to avoid detection for years in a city somewhere. You have a plan in place for all your buddies to come and attack that city when a certain signal is given. The signal goes out, but nothing happens do you go check things out yourself? Or do you call in one of your very conspicious looking buddies that totally sucks balls at remaining hidden and could totally alert everyone to the attack to come check things out?

Not to mention the only events in ME2 that could even begin to be a backup plan for ME1 would be the Arrival DLC. The other events taking place? The kidnappings and construction of the human reaper? Totally not a way to accidentally alert the locals of something horrible going on. And it's not really prepping for the invasion because you can gather all the human material you need in the invasion itself.

It was sloppy writing. You obviously don't see it that way, but oh well.

Dimensio: Fascinating.

Okay, that's funny. But a bit down, someone mentions EXACTLY what they could have done that would have been an awesome ending.

Have the Crucible be a nova-inducer. It blows out all electronics in the system (ships, in particular) and ignites the sun. Boom. Reapers gone but so is Earth. There ARE humans elsewhere so Humanity would go on, just not our homeworld. Shepard is gone. Everybody we know is gone. But the Reapers, also, are gone.

Then we'd have a good ending that was also full of loss, and all the people who think what we don't like about the ending is that it's "sad" will shut the fark up.

rickycal78: karasoth: sprawl15: Were the God AI around, Sovereign would be utterly unnecessary. The AI would know that people are on the Citadel because he's already right there. The only way this would make sense is if the God AI were subservient to the Reapers...which makes no sense, considering the God AI runs them. It also makes ME2 completely irrelevant for similar reasons; the AI orders a replacement Reaper built to...go to the place the AI already is and tell the AI what it already knows?

Not at all. If he set up the program he doesn't have to come into play if something went wrong.

and after ME I and II.... something clearly went wrong

But it still makes no sense. Let me explain it this way. You're a terrorist leader that's been able to avoid detection for years in a city somewhere. You have a plan in place for all your buddies to come and attack that city when a certain signal is given. The signal goes out, but nothing happens do you go check things out yourself? Or do you call in one of your very conspicious looking buddies that totally sucks balls at remaining hidden and could totally alert everyone to the attack to come check things out?

Not to mention the only events in ME2 that could even begin to be a backup plan for ME1 would be the Arrival DLC. The other events taking place? The kidnappings and construction of the human reaper? Totally not a way to accidentally alert the locals of something horrible going on. And it's not really prepping for the invasion because you can gather all the human material you need in the invasion itself.

It was sloppy writing. You obviously don't see it that way, but oh well.


Except the Reapers aren't terrorist they are machines:

sovereign was assigned to start the party. That didn't work but they had to get the rest of the stuff done (make the human reapers) and using the backup Mass Relay to get into human space (which is why you have to assplode people).

so there is a back up in there

Nick Spiceyweiner: But fark ME2 &3 for trying to sell me one more mission for like 10 bucks. Eat a whole bag of dicks, you greedy scumbags.

For what it's worth, Lair of the Shadow Broker was worth it in ME2, in my opinion.

Yotto: Dimensio: Fascinating.

Okay, that's funny. But a bit down, someone mentions EXACTLY what they could have done that would have been an awesome ending.

Have the Crucible be a nova-inducer. It blows out all electronics in the system (ships, in particular) and ignites the sun. Boom. Reapers gone but so is Earth. There ARE humans elsewhere so Humanity would go on, just not our homeworld. Shepard is gone. Everybody we know is gone. But the Reapers, also, are gone.

Then we'd have a good ending that was also full of loss, and all the people who think what we don't like about the ending is that it's "sad" will shut the fark up.

Because the Reapers were contained within the Sol system?

karasoth: sovereign was assigned to start the party.

And he 'starts the party' by telling the Citadel to send in the clowns. The AI controlling the reapers - including Sovereign - is the Citadel. Therefore, there's no need to tell the Citadel since it already knows everything Sovereign knows.

sprawl15: karasoth: sovereign was assigned to start the party.

And he 'starts the party' by telling the Citadel to send in the clowns. The AI controlling the reapers - including Sovereign - is the Citadel. Therefore, there's no need to tell the Citadel since it already knows everything Sovereign knows.

Except think of the whole reaper operation as a program

thats not the God Ai's job. His job is to create the program and make sure it works properly. And it it doesn't work fixing it

HalEmmerich: For what it's worth, Lair of the Shadow Broker was worth it in ME2, in my opinion.

Yeah, he likely spent far more on a 35 minute long dinner that he simply crapped out the next morning than he would have for that.

karasoth: sprawl15: karasoth: sovereign was assigned to start the party.

And he 'starts the party' by telling the Citadel to send in the clowns. The AI controlling the reapers - including Sovereign - is the Citadel. Therefore, there's no need to tell the Citadel since it already knows everything Sovereign knows.

Except think of the whole reaper operation as a program

thats not the God Ai's job. His job is to create the program and make sure it works properly. And it it doesn't work fixing it

And so again, when the program didn't work initially (keepers not responding) why would the response be to send in someone from outside that could alert everyone and foul up the plan more to investigate the problem instead of waking up the god AI that's ALREADY RIGHT FARKING THERE AND IS BASICALLY THE CITADEL ITSELF to set the plan right and kick things off? That's why shiat doesn't make sense. Everything about what you are calling the backup plans screams stupid plan in light of the god AI being in residence at and part of the Citadel, which is the key to the entire invasion. Are you really that dense or just trolling?

karasoth: Except the Reapers aren't terrorist they are machines:

sovereign was assigned to start the party. That didn't work but they had to get the rest of the stuff done (make the human reapers) and using the backup Mass Relay to get into human space (which is why you have to assplode people).

so there is a back up in there

Forgot about this bit here too. Having some external minion to start the party instead of the being at the center of galactic civilization and best in place to see the state of the galaxy and see if it's at the right point to start the party, not to mention in the best place to fix shiat if it goes wrong is just plain stupid. The other stuff? Human reapers can easily be made while the main invasion is going on. I can't argue with the backup relay bit as part of the Arrival DLC bit because that at least still makes sense.

I played MP thinking readiness mattered to my ending ... 99.9% seemed not to matter to the endgame at all.

MorePeasPlease: I played MP thinking readiness mattered to my ending ... 99.9% seemed not to matter to the endgame at all.

If you do everything 'right' the only ending you can't get without multi-player is the version of Destroy where Shepard lives.

karasoth: Except think of the whole reaper operation as a program

thats not the God Ai's job.

The whole point of an AI is to have intelligence. An intelligent being would not just sit there and wait for Sovereign to fill out the proper form in triplicate and turn it in by hand.

HalEmmerich: If you do everything 'right' the only ending you can't get without multi-player is the version of Destroy where Shepard lives.


Exactly ... that satisfying 0.1% that did matter!

MorePeasPlease: HalEmmerich: If you do everything 'right' the only ending you can't get without multi-player is the version of Destroy where Shepard lives.


Exactly ... that satisfying 0.1% that did matter!

Right, I was supporting your point that EMS and readiness generally were kinda pointless.

HalEmmerich: Right, I was supporting your point that EMS and readiness generally were kinda pointless.


Yeah I got that, I was just spitting in the face of the gods.

Of course it will just fall back on my face, but I feel better for a moment.

scottydoesntknow: rickycal78: Not to mention the only events in ME2 that could even begin to be a backup plan for ME1 would be the Arrival DLC. The other events taking place? The kidnappings and construction of the human reaper? Totally not a way to accidentally alert the locals of something horrible going on. And it's not really prepping for the invasion because you can gather all the human material you need in the invasion itself.

The locals did know something horrible was going on. Too bad they were in the terminus systems and not in alliance/council territory. The Collectors were known about, but had never really messed with anyone except specific instances. Shepard was the first to see it's the Collectors behind the kidnappings.

And constructing the human Reaper prior to the invasion saves time. Javik states that they sacrificed entire worlds to buy time to fight/come up with a plan. The Reapers could take a decade to destroy/assimilate everyone on that planet. By creating a Human-Reaper at the get-go, there's no need to spend time assimilating/gooifying people and they could just work on the mass genocide part.

I understand that much, but calling the human reaping a backup plan as the other guy was doing just doesn't fit. And saves time? How does saving time matter to a group that's lived for millions, maybe even billions of years, and sometimes takes centuries to wipe out an advanced civilization? How does the few months time that they've been supposedly collecting humans in ME2 plus the amount of time it would have taken to complete it, we'll say a year just for shiats and grins, save any amount of significant time when you look at that kind of scale? I can see it now.

Reaper 1: I'm so glad we started gooifying humans early, that way we can get back to dark space in 99 years time instead of 100! Whoohoo!
Reaper 2: I know right? I'm totally glad we get that extra year of sleep in Dark Space. I don't think I've had over 50k years rest between cycles in 3 million years.
Harbinger: Your lives are insignificant! Get back to work!

rickycal78:
And so again, when the program didn't work initially (keepers not responding) why would the response be to send in someone from outside that could alert everyone and foul up the plan more to investigate the problem instead of waking up the god AI that's ALREADY RIGHT FARKING THERE AND IS BASICALLY THE CITADEL ITSELF to set the plan right and kick things off? That's why shiat doesn't make sense. Everything about what you are calling the backup plans screams stupid plan in light of the god AI being in residence at and part of the Citadel, which is the key to the entire invasion. Are you really that dense or just trolling?

For all we know, the "signal" that Sovereign sends to the Citadel is actually a signal to the Catalyst AI (indirectly, since the signal apparently has to go through the Keepers, which is a bit dumb). When the AI gets the signal, it causes the Citadel to open the relay and let the Reapers in. So when Sovereign sent the signal, and the Keepers ignored it, the AI didn't get clued in to that fact. It wouldn't know that Sovereign was trying to open the relay. And hence, it wouldn't cause it to be opened on its own.

Now, I'd agree that that is a pretty weak explanation - but that's what happens when you end up with multi-stage stories. Happens in books all the time.

Frankly, the question that I find more perplexing, is why the Reapers ignored the Citadel so long in ME3. Their "normal" behaviour, according to ME1, is to jump through the Citadel relay, take control of the Citadel, and therefore take control of the seat of government, cutting off communication, and isolating all of the various systems. So yeah, we stopped them from going directly to the Citadel in ME1, but that shouldn't stop them from making a beeline to the Citadel in ME3. It's still the seat of government (the council), and still contains data on all the various species. Even if they wanted to hit Earth first, out of a bit of worry over Shepard, why wouldn't the Citadel be target #2? I mean, Shepard ends up using it for exactly what they try to shut it down for - a centralized location to form a defense.

Duck_of_Doom:

Intriguing.

It's PR bullshiat, give them a good kicking.

Bhruic: rickycal78:
Frankly, the question that I find more perplexing, is why the Reapers ignored the Citadel so long in ME3. Their "normal" behaviour, according to ME1, is to jump through the Citadel relay, take control of the Citadel, and therefore take control of the seat of government, cutting off communication, and isolating all of the various systems. So yeah, we stopped them from going directly to the Citadel in ME1, but that shouldn't stop them from making a beeline to the Citadel in ME3.

I think it was personal. Harbinger was all 'Oh, no, you didn't' and set forth to lay siege to the human homeworld. Perhaps they viewed humanity as more than an annoyance considering the whole Collector base thing.

/I know you feel this

Bhruic: For all we know, the "signal" that Sovereign sends to the Citadel is actually a signal to the Catalyst AI (indirectly, since the signal apparently has to go through the Keepers, which is a bit dumb). When the AI gets the signal, it causes the Citadel to open the relay and let the Reapers in. So when Sovereign sent the signal, and the Keepers ignored it, the AI didn't get clued in to that fact. It wouldn't know that Sovereign was trying to open the relay. And hence, it wouldn't cause it to be opened on its own.

I can see where you're going with this, but my point is why have an external signal sent to the Citadel at all when the Catalyst/god AI can do all the research it needs and cause the citadel to open the relay and let the reapers in all by it's damned self with a lower chance of delay or problems and it can fix whatever problems on the spot? That's why the inclusion of the Catalyst AI as it is currently written was retarded. It's sloppy. It's not as if they didn't have access to the storyline and from the first game to look at. To think the folks at EA/Bioware looked at this story line and the Head Dipshiat in Charge said "Looks great! Roll with it!" kinda saddens me. It doesn't take a genius to look at the story knowing that this was the final installment and say "Hey guys, this character and ending we wrote totally makes the storyline in ME1 look like the Catalyst/reapers are pants on head retarded, can't we do something about that?"

shortymac: The answer to that question is:

"Bioware didn't write that far ahead".

Hell they didn't need to write that far ahead, that's just it. All they had to do was look at the previous storylines and write something that flows with it instead of contradicting or making those previous storylines turn the antagonist into a group of retards at the pudding buffet.

rickycal78: Hell they didn't need to write that far ahead, that's just it. All they had to do was look at the previous storylines and write something that flows with it instead of contradicting or making those previous storylines turn the antagonist into a group of retards at the pudding buffet.


Exactly. How the hell can you go so far afield from the template you yourselves laid out?

Then again Captain Kirk should have died on the bridge, not underneath one, so this bizarre level of disconnect from the characters isn't unprecedented.

rickycal78: I can see where you're going with this, but my point is why have an external signal sent to the Citadel at all when the Catalyst/god AI can do all the research it needs and cause the citadel to open the relay and let the reapers in all by it's damned self with a lower chance of delay or problems and it can fix whatever problems on the spot?

Because there was a lot more for Sovereign to do than just send the signal. The signal was important, certainly, but a lot of Sovereign's work involved indoctrinating people, and using them to set up things for when the rest of the bunch got there. The mobility was important - the Citadel AI couldn't do it, as it was stuck on the Citadel.

Duck_of_Doom: Just seems early in the PR wars to even offer this olive branch.

PR people adapt very slowly to the way things work these days, their playbook suggests it will take weeks or longer for a protest to really gain traction and spread out. Of course, in reality, with twitter, e-mail, forums and in-essence people around 24/7 this takes days. But they do adapt.

The real question is, in PR terms, is this yet another faux-olive branch or an exposing the throat? I'm willing to bet it's the former, simply because Bioware aren't yet desperate enough to expose the throat.

So the beatings should continue.

Bhruic: rickycal78: I can see where you're going with this, but my point is why have an external signal sent to the Citadel at all when the Catalyst/god AI can do all the research it needs and cause the citadel to open the relay and let the reapers in all by it's damned self with a lower chance of delay or problems and it can fix whatever problems on the spot?

Because there was a lot more for Sovereign to do than just send the signal. The signal was important, certainly, but a lot of Sovereign's work involved indoctrinating people, and using them to set up things for when the rest of the bunch got there. The mobility was important - the Citadel AI couldn't do it, as it was stuck on the Citadel.

Again I ask "Why?" From the story in ME 3 is reaper built and even houses the thing that controls the reapers so why not make it indoctrinate people? Hell that's even better, indoctrinate everyone at the hub of galactic civilization and instead of picking up a few hundred here and there you could have the entire population of the Citadel and the people that stop by for visits and make it even less likely that something will go wrong. The more people try to explain the garbage that is the story involving the Catalyst the more wrong and retarded the established story involving it is. Stop trying to rationalize idiocy. The writers were stupid, lazy and sloppy in regards to the ending and the Catalyst and it shows. At least the character interactions and earlier parts of the story were great enough to make play up to that point awesome.

Bhruic: The mobility was important - the Citadel AI couldn't do it, as it was stuck on the Citadel.

Except, ME2 points out that any exposure to Reaper tech will start the indoctrination process, you don't actually need to be abducted by a living Reaper to be brainwashed.

The Catalyst/Star Child/Citadel AI is by it's very nature the definition of "Reaper tech", the Citadel trap is designed to get the leaders of the largest, most advanced, civilisation(s) there for maximum damage when the trap is sprung.

So... yeah... how many millions of people living and working on the Citadel are now, thanks to bad writing, indoctrinated? Erm... all of them. Including the galactic council. Sovereign/Naraza wasted his time.