gblive: Occupy Arrests - 6738 and counting

Wait, what? People protest the establishment and the establishment beats them down? No way!

I don't think we even have a OWS here in the twin cities. But then, we had the 2008 GOP convention and the anarchists came out in full force. I'm sure the cops would love another round of beatings and arresting.

WhyteRaven74: gblive: She was part of a union protest of an Asian restaurant in Rhode Island who was using a non-union food provider in New York City.

Which totally justifies what the police did.

I never said that. There is debate if the police even did it or if she did it to herself while running away if you read the summary.

I will note that she was convicted of all the charges with the felonies being reduced to misdemeanors.

WhyteRaven74:
Most OWS protests have had no legal issues. Also if the cities would grant them their permits, it would be a lot easier to keep things clean.

There's no question that Bloomberg and Kelly hate freedom (they've long pretended that the 1st, 2nd, and 4th Amendments don't apply to them), but what intrigues me is just what these two are afraid of? They've proven themselves to be pieces of shiat, but they're afraid of something.

EvilRacistNaziFascist: tirob: #Occupy will never amount to anything. Americans want to *be* rich, not to tear the rich down.

This is worth addressing. Most Americans will never be "rich"

True.

EvilRacistNaziFascist:

Most Americans will never be "rich", nor need they aspire to be.

Whether that be true or not, Americans *do* aspire to be rich. It's why people go to casinos, play the lottery, dream of being professional athletes or rock stars or rappers, commit frauds and defalcations, etc., etc.

Being the father of a 3 yr old who protests when he has nothing to do I'm getting a kick out OWS. He also protests when he wants something another kid has.

cmb53208: but what intrigues me is just what these two are afraid of?

Just look up who Bloomberg used to work for, he's sticking up for his buddies and customers.

publikenemy: . He also protests when he wants something another kid has.

Which isn't at all what OWS is about.

WhyteRaven74: struct: How does this turn into something real to make my working class parents not worry about their insurance, or hours, or job security?

Well reforming the tax structure would help a lot, at least it would address some issues on the revenue side of things. The insurance thing, is a lot trickier. There was a time when a lot more people had health insurance through their work and their employers covered a lot more of the cost. That that's changed hasn't been a matter of legal changes, just changes in attitudes, which is a lot harder to fix. On the one hand, while now we at least have the framework to make sure everyone gets insurance, there's the matter of how much the cost has gone up for the employed over the last 20 odd years, not just because the cost of the insurance has gone up but because the percentage paid by employers has gone down. it's certainly possible to shift things by way of law, course as things are now can also be changed so that there's less, if any, involvement by employers in people having health insurance. The issue of hours, is a lot thornier in some ways, though it presents a more immediate remedy at least if you're looking at laws that could be changed. Currently they're tons of jobs that are exempt from overtime, and right now there's a bill working through Congress that would exempt even more jobs, pretty much every job in IT. But be that as it may, it is a federal law issue, as certain jobs have been made exempt, they can in turn be made no longer exempt. That would at least address the issue of people who have one job and are working 50 or 60 or more hours and getting no over time. The issue of people who are working that many hours split between two or three jobs just so they can make ends meet is a lot more complicated. Though some of it ties into overall economic health and income growth.

Having 30 years of stagnant wages is not helping and has to some degree made the problem worse. Now fixing that is a bit trickier, because there ...

You raise a couple of really good points. With health care, I think it personally has to do more with health inflation as well, its not that the cost is being redistributed more (maybe, but I'm not sure that health care plans are now on average less inclusive than in the past) but that there is more cost. If you look at stagnant wages over the last 30 years, total compensation has not been stagnant. Health care has been absorbing more and more of the money that should be going out as wages - whereas in 1958, 95% of our income came to us in cash, now its closer to 80%.

Link (new window)

I think getting Obamacare implemented correctly (we're not even close of having all of that laws policies in place and there's a lot of wiggle room) will go a large way towards correcting this.

Your point about the corporate culture is excellent and made me think for a second. I agree. I think even if you ask a lot of investors, the inmates are running the asylum, which is why CEO compensation is skyrocketing and often decoupled from actual performance. So how do you change that culture? One idea is implement a real ownership society in this country, where everyone at a factory, from janitors to managers owns stock and they can, by law, organize and force a seat on the firms board of directors.

I think that the summary is that, yes, productivity and GDP have gone up but that average workers haven't seen that in the forms of wages. I bet if you do the math and add up the money, 95% of that gain that in the past would have gone to works has gone to 1) health care professionals 2) the management class and 3) finance. These are all people that aren't exactly hurting right now. That's where we have to look, and I'm still at a loss how more protests get you there. I'm not saying its impossible, just that I'm skeptical and don't see the way forward. And you mention putting pressure on investors, but its not entirely clear how. Legislatively? If so, then we're on the same page.

struct: And you mention putting pressure on investors, but its not entirely clear how

That's kind of the trick to the whole thing. How to do it. You can point out that Warren Buffet doesn't invest the way they do. He's openly said that he doesn't care about earnings per share, they don't tell him anything worthwhile about a company. How to get people to really listen though is a lot trickier.

Let's all hope that the OWS don't attract the wrong people into the fold. The kind that want to turn the States into a festering third world communist sh*t hole, with a dictatorship.

WhyteRaven74:

Which isn't at all what OWS is about.

Jobs? Money? that's what its all about. If they had either, they wouldn't be protesting.

publikenemy: If they had either, they wouldn't be protesting.

most OWS protestors have jobs and enough money to live just fine on, some even have lots of money.

You guys will go out and re-elect Bloomberg and Obama, the two that have sent the police on the Occupy Movement.

If the OWS ever gets to the same level that it was last year, small businesses in that area will once again suffer and go out of business.

WhyteRaven74: publikenemy: If they had either, they wouldn't be protesting.

most OWS protestors have jobs and enough money to live just fine on, some even have lots of money.

Really dude? I'll spare you the threadshiatting, but dam, what job would allow you to be away to protest for weeks? Majority of the protesters in manhattan aren't even from manhattan, so no way they're working around that. I cannot tell if they have money or not, since I myself look like shiat most of the time, but I would hope that if they did, they would stop taking advantage of all that free food they're giving out. Buy your own meals if you have scratch.

publikenemy:
Really dude? I'll spare you the threadshiatting, but dam, what job would allow you to be away to protest for weeks? .

Call me silly, but I'm guessing many popped in after work or on their day(s) off?

Freschel: Let's all hope that the OWS don't attract the wrong people into the fold. The kind that want to turn the States into a festering third world communist sh*t hole, with a dictatorship.

Oh, like the Workers World Party, Communist Party USA, and a few other like minded groups?

cmb53208: publikenemy:
Really dude? I'll spare you the threadshiatting, but dam, what job would allow you to be away to protest for weeks? .

Call me silly, but I'm guessing many popped in after work or on their day(s) off?

You are silly, but I lolled just a lil. And besides that, what about all those signs everyone's holding up saying how they went to college for 8 yrs, have 60k in debt, and can't find a job in their field? It's mainly about jobs and money. I do sympathize, but protesting will get you neither.

Nemo's Brother: You guys will go out and re-elect Bloomberg and Obama,.

Obama DID NOT send the cops into OWS, Bloomberg did. And while he did some things to make libs happy (supporting gay marriage, environmentalism, and a large donation to Planned Parenthood that just happened a day or two after an unarmed black kid was shot by the NYPD-total coincidence I'm sure) the man remains a paternalistic authoritarian. The man has few, if any, similarities to Obama.

Obama's a decen to middling president whereas Mike Bloomberg is a douchebag with delusions of granduer.

publikenemy: cmb53208: publikenemy:
Really dude? I'll spare you the threadshiatting, but dam, what job would allow you to be away to protest for weeks? .

Call me silly, but I'm guessing many popped in after work or on their day(s) off?

You are silly, but I lolled just a lil. And besides that, what about all those signs everyone's holding up saying how they went to college for 8 yrs, have 60k in debt, and can't find a job in their field? It's mainly about jobs and money. I do sympathize, but protesting will get you neither.

So basically what you're saying is that people who paid a god-awful amount of money for a degree in theater or ( Insert worthless college major here ) want someone else to bail them out for their poor choices.

Generation Whine indeed.

cmb53208: Nemo's Brother: You guys will go out and re-elect Bloomberg and Obama,.

Obama DID NOT send the cops into OWS, Bloomberg did. And while he did some things to make libs happy (supporting gay marriage, environmentalism, and a large donation to Planned Parenthood that just happened a day or two after an unarmed black kid was shot by the NYPD-total coincidence I'm sure) the man remains a paternalistic authoritarian. The man has few, if any, similarities to Obama.

Obama's a decen to middling president whereas Mike Bloomberg is a douchebag with delusions of granduer.

The DHS, which ultimately answers to Obama, is behind the coordinated shut downs. (new window)

This is because the crime caused from the OWS movement made them less popular than the Tea Party. Obama can't have that in election year. (new window)

Oh boy, Baby Boomer Derangement Disorder is in full effect in this thread. An entire generation who had it's dreams crushed by Nixon. Sold out to Reagan. Pocketed everything under Clinton. Let W cronies sell them fear and war while going completely broke. Criticizes a younger generation for rejecting their parents lack of moral fiber. Irony.

Freschel: Let's all hope that the OWS don't attract the wrong people into the fold. The kind that want to turn the States into a festering third world communist sh*t hole, with a dictatorship.

At least this would give them a clear goal.

Day_Old_Dutchie: So, mock the Occupy movement. Buy into the media's line that these are lazy goodfornothings that can be easily taken care of by goons with batons, pepper spray, viscous dogs and rubber bullets. The police, politicians and the corporate mouthpieces are such smart people and know what's good for the world.

While prices keep going up
and wages keep the same or go down, or your 40-hour week becomes 60, then 70...if you want to keep that job.
and goddamn corporate cheapskates keep figuring more ways to screw us over
and the rich keep paying off the politicians to do their bidding
and the politicians keep trying to restrict women's reproductive rights.
and the 1% keep pushing for war, because it's good for their business
and the bankers and other assorted paper shufflers keep figuring more ways to make money doing no work.
and jobs keep getting out-sourced to Asian slave workers and prisoners
and the prison population keeps going up

While we all watch soap operas, reality TV and sports on TV. Wake up, you goddamn sheep!

because it needed to be posted again

You can attack the appearance of the protesters like some elementary school bully all you want, but it really doesn't address the problem of corporations abusing humanity and the Earth's resources. Until you can put your grown-up pants on and actually examine the issues, you're basically part of the problem.

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: .

So basically what you're saying is that people who paid a god-awful amount of money for a degree in theater or ( Insert worthless college major here ) want someone else to bail them out for their poor choices.

Generation Whine indeed.

No jackass, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that many OWS protestors do work and came to protests when they weren't working. And the 1st Amendment applies regardless of employment status, meaning that it applies to overweight teabaggers collecting disability.

fecal fornications: Day_Old_Dutchie: So, mock the Occupy movement. Buy into the media's line that these are lazy goodfornothings that can be easily taken care of by goons with batons, pepper spray, viscous dogs and rubber bullets. The police, politicians and the corporate mouthpieces are such smart people and know what's good for the world.

While prices keep going up
and wages keep the same or go down, or your 40-hour week becomes 60, then 70...if you want to keep that job.
and goddamn corporate cheapskates keep figuring more ways to screw us over
and the rich keep paying off the politicians to do their bidding
and the politicians keep trying to restrict women's reproductive rights.
and the 1% keep pushing for war, because it's good for their business
and the bankers and other assorted paper shufflers keep figuring more ways to make money doing no work.
and jobs keep getting out-sourced to Asian slave workers and prisoners
and the prison population keeps going up

While we all watch soap operas, reality TV and sports on TV. Wake up, you goddamn sheep!

because it needed to be posted again

So what do you want to do about it?

Silence is Golden !

two, four, six, eight

Occupy the Interstate!

stare em down

WhyteRaven74
Job security is a real tough nut to crack

People don't work because they want to. They work because they have to. Calls for full employment are looking at the wrong problem.

And these children
that you spit on
as they
try to change their world
are immune to your consultations
they're quite aware
what they're going through

gblive: struct: gblive: [2media.nowpublic.net image 610x476]

Come on, tea partiers don't read Adam Smith. It should be a radio tuned to Limbaugh or Beck, not a book. Smith wrote about the dangers of corporate power, the need for strong government imposed workers rights, and the benefits of trade. No Tea-partier has quoted him in support of these ideas.

You have a point there.

BTW ... I don't really care for the Tea Party crowd either. However it is an example of how to PEACEFULLY protest and not destroy everything. It is also a good example of how to take action in the political arena to drive policies that your organization supports. These are things that Occupy just can't seem to understand - rendering the entire movement totally ineffective. Even worse, most mainstream Americans totally disapprove of them.

Cant belp bt agree. Like it or not the Tea Party got some control. You can too. Organize. Go full arena rock. Get the permits. Do it right. The people are with you.

publikenemy: what job would allow you to be away to protest for weeks?

Most of the protestors at most of the protests aren't there all the time. And some of those who are there all the time are there because they don't need to work.

DidyoumeanDark: Get the permits

Most OWS protests have permits. The problem is when city governments refuse the permits.

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: want someone else to bail them out for their poor choices.

There's no such thing as a worthless degree. Also, why are we the only major nation that keeps putting people into big debt for going to school? Just look at how much debt doctors end up in. Also, the employment picture in general isn't exactly good.

WhyteRaven74:
Also, why are we the only major nation that keeps putting people into big debt for going to school?

The nation is NOT putting people into big debt for going to school.

People make a choice to go to an expensive school and take on big debt or go to a less expensive school and take on far less debt.

You really should learn to put the responsibility where it belongs otherwise you can never fix the problem.

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: but it really doesn't address the problem of corporations abusing humanity and the Earth's resources.

Neither does a bunch of hippies trashing a park or throwing molotov cocktails at police.

do you think humanity is in better shape than it was 100 years ago? 200 years ago? When has it been better?

DidyoumeanDark: gblive: struct: gblive: [2media.nowpublic.net image 610x476]

Come on, tea partiers don't read Adam Smith. It should be a radio tuned to Limbaugh or Beck, not a book. Smith wrote about the dangers of corporate power, the need for strong government imposed workers rights, and the benefits of trade. No Tea-partier has quoted him in support of these ideas.

You have a point there.

BTW ... I don't really care for the Tea Party crowd either. However it is an example of how to PEACEFULLY protest and not destroy everything. It is also a good example of how to take action in the political arena to drive policies that your organization supports. These are things that Occupy just can't seem to understand - rendering the entire movement totally ineffective. Even worse, most mainstream Americans totally disapprove of them.

Cant belp bt agree. Like it or not the Tea Party got some control. You can too. Organize. Go full arena rock. Get the permits. Do it right. The people are with you.

The most difficult part of this situation is that if the Occupy movement could come up with a reasonable list of objectives and start to operate in a manner that demonstrated some common sense --- they would probably have a much greater percentage of Americans support them than support the Tea Party.

Bank Executives On 15th Floor Gambling On Which Occupy Wall Street Protester Will Be Arrested Next (new window)

Yeah, it's the Onion and for humor only... but it does properly express the attitude of the Wall Street crowd in regards to the protestors.

EvilRacistNaziFascist: The cartoon's message is essentially correct: the Occupy movements are motivated by emotions such as anger, envy, and resentment, and do not offer any rational plan to make the US (or any other country) a better place.

Um, no.

Of course, I know that to some on the Left practically anyone who disagrees with their opinions is labelled a "troll", but then again the Left specializes in labels far more than they do in intelligent argument.

Let's see:

Derp? or 1/10

You decide. You're about as boring as the troll you're white-knighting.

tenpoundsofcheese: The nation is NOT putting people into big debt for going to school.

Yes it is. And students who follow your advice just cause schools to suffer when they don't get the best minds they could get. Funny how that's not an issue anywhere else.

tenpoundsofcheese: The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: but it really doesn't address the problem of corporations abusing humanity and the Earth's resources.

Neither does a bunch of hippies trashing a park or throwing molotov cocktails at police.

do you think humanity is in better shape than it was 100 years ago? 200 years ago? When has it been better?

Hmmm...that's interesting. I'm part of the Occupy movement. I work 50+ hours/week at a real job. I have never trashed a park or thrown any Molotov cocktails at police. In fact, I have not heard of ANYONE in the Occupy movement throwing Molotov cocktails at police. You clearly don't know much about the movement and those involved in it.

You provide yet another argument that fails to address the issue head on. You are basically saying that we should not do anything about our world unless we are in the worst shape we have ever been. The problem with that logic is that you tend not to do anything until it is too late. Right now, we are running out of resources and causing irreparable damage to Earth. In that sense, yes, humanity is doing worse than it was 100/200/300 years ago. Corporations with no other goals aside from making record profits each year are driving us to ruin. And, I find it really sad that people like you don't seem to see this.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: These people:

[a.abcnews.com image 320x213]

are unable to find gainful employment?? I'm shocked.

yes, this picture is representative of all of the 30 million unemployed Americans.

gblive: [redalexandriava.files.wordpress.com image 590x418]

Really, we're still claiming the TEA party wants less government even while they're for government intervention in drugs, abortions, marriages, and porn?

They're so non-violent they bring guns and promise not to use them "this time?"

They love America so much they hate our democratically elected president to the point they continue with this birther nonsense?

I'm not buying that there have been no murders, rapes, or suicides by TEA party members... pretty much every group has some riff-raff.

I'm also not buying that TEA partiers are more likely than OWS kids to not be on government assistance... the heart of the movement is in some of the absolutely poorest states. I don't hate them for it, but I'm not going for this ride where we pretend that the south is full of independent, employed homeowners who aren't on the dole as much as the eeeeeeevil liberals... the numbers just don't bear that out.

Basically, I like the concept of the TEA party, I actually agree with some of their concepts on limiting government and lowering taxes... but your picture of the "differences" between the TEA party guys and OWS people is just bullshiat. There are a lot of people out there who want less government, whether its the OWS people complaining about corporate welfare or the TEA people complaining about individual welfare... the hurdle we face as a nation is getting past this idiocy where we pretend there is such a great chasm between our common senses that we have no choice but to revert to these kind of hyper-simplistic us v. them politics.

gblive: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 400x303]

Well, this one is correct if you parse it to mean "Why the hell are the protesters being arrested instead of the bankers? This is horrific," but judging by the rest of your inane derping, I'm assuming that it's supposed to mean something else? I don't speak jackbooted retard, unfortunately.

/Neutral on the OWS movement.
//I hate thuggish authoritanism and blatant police brutality, though.

Wouldn't matter of the protestors were totally trashing the place. People would still say that the cops are the ones being the jerks.

Franco: Oh boy, Baby Boomer Derangement Disorder is in full effect in this thread. An entire generation who had it's dreams crushed by Nixon. Sold out to Reagan. Pocketed everything under Clinton. Let W cronies sell them fear and war while going completely broke. Criticizes a younger generation for rejecting their parents lack of moral fiber. Irony.

Yeah, but how many #Occupiers will be living in the suburbs and selling mutual funds or insurance thirty years from now?

One female under arrest had difficulty breathing and was taken away in an ambulance to be treated.

Allergic to mace?

whidbey: Yes, it's nice to know that our country is still a police state when it comes right down to it.

And yet... its so terrible you remain here?

/faux outrage is faux