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(BBC)   Scientists declare planetary emergency, demand deployment of cloud-whitening technology to arctic   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 377
    More: Scary, Edinburgh University, Arctic methane, Faroe Islands, Bering Strait, sea ice, permafrost, original idea, Arctic  
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9916 clicks; posted to Geek » on 17 Mar 2012 at 9:18 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-17 12:45:47 PM
Another egghead cash grab by ivory tower elitists in fancy pants.
 
2012-03-17 12:56:50 PM

AcneVulgaris: Another egghead cash grab by ivory tower elitists in fancy pants.


I don't want to go all white knight here but their pants were really just rather spiffy.
 
2012-03-17 01:27:44 PM
They're not wrong. Quite a bit more of our weather than you think depends on Arctic Ice. Once it goes away, and it far too soon, we're in serious trouble. That's not even touching the methane releases.
 
2012-03-17 01:33:33 PM

GAT_00: They're not wrong. Quite a bit more of our weather than you think depends on Arctic Ice. Once it goes away, and it far too soon, we're in serious trouble. That's not even touching the methane releases.


We're in serious trouble, then. We could go all out against the problem today, cut greenhouse emissions by 50%, but in a few decades the population will double, and we'll be right back where we started.

Nobody will ever acknowledge this simple fact, as will be proven by the denials downthread.
 
2012-03-17 01:36:34 PM

AcneVulgaris: GAT_00: They're not wrong. Quite a bit more of our weather than you think depends on Arctic Ice. Once it goes away, and it far too soon, we're in serious trouble. That's not even touching the methane releases.

We're in serious trouble, then. We could go all out against the problem today, cut greenhouse emissions by 50%, but in a few decades the population will double, and we'll be right back where we started.

Nobody will ever acknowledge this simple fact, as will be proven by the denials downthread.


I'm kind of torn on the blocking mechanisms, like this one or the sulfur dioxide injected into the upper atmosphere. On one hand, they can get us relatively easily and cheaply back to an effective 280 ppm, but then the incentive and push to fundamentally change ourselves is greatly reduced. We almost need a catastrophe to force us to adjust.
 
2012-03-17 01:40:01 PM

GAT_00: AcneVulgaris: GAT_00: They're not wrong. Quite a bit more of our weather than you think depends on Arctic Ice. Once it goes away, and it far too soon, we're in serious trouble. That's not even touching the methane releases.

We're in serious trouble, then. We could go all out against the problem today, cut greenhouse emissions by 50%, but in a few decades the population will double, and we'll be right back where we started.

Nobody will ever acknowledge this simple fact, as will be proven by the denials downthread.

I'm kind of torn on the blocking mechanisms, like this one or the sulfur dioxide injected into the upper atmosphere. On one hand, they can get us relatively easily and cheaply back to an effective 280 ppm, but then the incentive and push to fundamentally change ourselves is greatly reduced. We almost need a catastrophe to force us to adjust.


I have to wonder about unintended side effects from these fixes. Doesn't seem like anybody has a really deep understanding about how climate works. I think adaptation is probably the way to gountil w know more.
 
2012-03-17 01:43:25 PM

AcneVulgaris: GAT_00: AcneVulgaris: GAT_00: They're not wrong. Quite a bit more of our weather than you think depends on Arctic Ice. Once it goes away, and it far too soon, we're in serious trouble. That's not even touching the methane releases.

We're in serious trouble, then. We could go all out against the problem today, cut greenhouse emissions by 50%, but in a few decades the population will double, and we'll be right back where we started.

Nobody will ever acknowledge this simple fact, as will be proven by the denials downthread.

I'm kind of torn on the blocking mechanisms, like this one or the sulfur dioxide injected into the upper atmosphere. On one hand, they can get us relatively easily and cheaply back to an effective 280 ppm, but then the incentive and push to fundamentally change ourselves is greatly reduced. We almost need a catastrophe to force us to adjust.

I have to wonder about unintended side effects from these fixes. Doesn't seem like anybody has a really deep understanding about how climate works. I think adaptation is probably the way to gountil w know more.


The argument is that for some of these blocks, it's a restoration of recent climatic norms, so we are already used to the side effects. For the high sulfur, it gets constantly broken down naturally by sunlight, so it needs to be constantly emitted. None of it will stay up there for more than 3 years. We know these effects, it the same as when a volcano erupts.
 
2012-03-17 09:20:15 PM
In summer, seawater would be pumped up to the top using some kind of renewable energy, and out through the nozzles that are now being developed at Edinburgh University, which achieve incredibly fine droplet size.

so it will never happen??
bwhhahahahahahahaah

how about using real energy so that your project could actually work?
 
2012-03-17 09:22:17 PM
We created this mess with incompetence and greed. As I see it those forces are more powerful than preservation for mankind.

The options are to either use a greed mechanism to fix the problem or to hope the whole thing was as intended and the planet will auto-correct.
 
2012-03-17 09:25:39 PM
oyster.ignimgs.com

Has a solution. You may not like it, though.
 
2012-03-17 09:25:48 PM
Oh, here is the link to proof of auto-correction (new window)
 
2012-03-17 09:31:09 PM
Well, some other country besides 'Merica better get on this. Almost half our population would block any funding for a problem that doesn't exist.

Maybe our nice wealthy Norwegian friends can save the day.
 
2012-03-17 09:31:54 PM
I am probably moving to Minneapolis this summer so if scientists could actually speed up global warming by maybe another 10 degrees or so that would be awesome!
 
2012-03-17 09:33:21 PM
Bah, we'll just hitch along for the ride in Elon Musk's Magical Mars Retirement Mansion. There's plenty more rocks out there, right?
 
2012-03-17 09:40:23 PM
At least it will allow Chinese crap to get to Europe faster.
 
2012-03-17 09:41:14 PM

bookelly: Well, some other country besides 'Merica better get on this. Almost half our population would block any funding for a problem that doesn't exist.

Maybe our nice wealthy Norwegian friends can save the day.


Considering we may spend more money than just about anyone else trying to fix problems that DO exist - sending aid and whole damned carrier battle groups to earthquake and tsunami-affected areas, sacrificing soldiers to secure food from the hands of warlords in Africa (Blackhawk Down), rescuing sailors of nations unfriendly to us who were taken by pirates, and sending food and supplies to a bunch of former colonies the Europeans farked over for their resources- I'd say it's about f*cking time they take care of some problems without us.
 
2012-03-17 09:45:23 PM
If we had a methane purge that began to trigger one of those "extinguished most of life on earth" events, it would sort of be satisfying to watch conservatards realize that they had wiped out humanity with their willful ignorance, but on the other hand it would kind of suck to be wiped out.
 
2012-03-17 09:53:20 PM

aragonphx: I am probably moving to Minneapolis this summer so if scientists could actually speed up global warming by maybe another 10 degrees or so that would be awesome!


Its been done. +20 C today in Ontario. It should have been somewhere near 5C
 
2012-03-17 09:58:33 PM

amishkarl: aragonphx: I am probably moving to Minneapolis this summer so if scientists could actually speed up global warming by maybe another 10 degrees or so that would be awesome!

Its been done. +20 C today in Ontario. It should have been somewhere near 5C


Positively balmy in Newfoundland today. Snow's still on the ground, but it was t-shirt weather.
 
2012-03-17 10:02:12 PM

PartTimeBuddha: amishkarl: aragonphx: I am probably moving to Minneapolis this summer so if scientists could actually speed up global warming by maybe another 10 degrees or so that would be awesome!

Its been done. +20 C today in Ontario. It should have been somewhere near 5C

Positively balmy in Newfoundland today. Snow's still on the ground, but it was t-shirt weather.


And we only had a little over a week of real winter in Edmonton this year.
 
2012-03-17 10:05:57 PM
www.threadbombing.com
 
2012-03-17 10:06:01 PM
And if anyone cares to see the pattern, the chart in my link above shows that the pattern of mass extinction if you count both major and minor happens every 65 million years or so (give or take a million years).

Humans are such an anomaly on the scale of the life or earth. We don't even qualify as a bad cold.
 
2012-03-17 10:06:42 PM
Let me just say that it really is going to suck when all that methane blows and the permafrost melts. There is no way we could survive with current technology. On the plus side Texas will burn first, and we can all say "told you so" for a while until we die too, so we have that going for us.
 
2012-03-17 10:08:26 PM
We're in serious trouble, then. We could go all out against the problem today, cut greenhouse emissions by 50%, but in a few decades the population will double, and we'll be right back where we started.

Even if we went all out against the problem today we wouldn't stop it. Slow it maybe, but not stop it. The amount of thermal momentum behind this change is enormous. You can't counter 60 years worth of heating in a few years. With the methane being released we are past the point of no return.
The increasing population just means that even going all out would only result in a slowing for a short period of time.

I have to wonder about unintended side effects from these fixes. Doesn't seem like anybody has a really deep understanding about how climate works. I think adaptation is probably the way to gountil w know more.

It's going to happen. Adapting is the ONLY thing we can do at this point.

For the high sulfur, it gets constantly broken down naturally by sunlight, so it needs to be constantly emitted. None of it will stay up there for more than 3 years. We know these effects, it the same as when a volcano erupts.

The problem with surfer is that it reacts with other chemicals in the atmosphere and produces particles in the PM2.5 size range. These are pollutants associated with an increase in heart attack and stroke as they cause the body to create more bad cholesterol. Everything is interconnected and we don't understand all the connections. Just picking something and doing it runs the risk of making things significantly worse.

If we had a methane purge that began to trigger one of those "extinguished most of life on earth" events, it would sort of be satisfying to watch conservatards realize that they had wiped out humanity with their willful ignorance, but on the other hand it would kind of suck to be wiped out.


Don't be silly, they would never admit guilt. They'd either decide that it was an act of god that they couldn't do anything about anyway, or that it was the fault of liberals somehow. If they had to make up some facts to rationalize it, so be it.
 
2012-03-17 10:12:53 PM

KarmicDisaster: Let me just say that it really is going to suck when all that methane blows and the permafrost melts. There is no way we could survive with current technology. On the plus side Texas will burn first, and we can all say "told you so" for a while until we die too, so we have that going for us.


Then the Earth will recover as it always has and allow some non-ape based species to become dominant and evolve. While today's conservatives burn in a spiritual hell of their own making, all the time wondering what they did wrong.
 
2012-03-17 10:22:31 PM

Hollie Maea: If we had a methane purge that began to trigger one of those "extinguished most of life on earth" events, it would sort of be satisfying to watch conservatards realize that they had wiped out humanity with their willful ignorance, but on the other hand it would kind of suck to be wiped out.


HAH! You assume they would admit they were wrong. They would say it was god's will and blame the gays or the muslims or Obama for causing god's wrath. Then they would smugly tell you they will be raptured at any moment and you get to spend an eternity in hell.
 
2012-03-17 10:38:34 PM

Torqueknot: Hollie Maea: If we had a methane purge that began to trigger one of those "extinguished most of life on earth" events, it would sort of be satisfying to watch conservatards realize that they had wiped out humanity with their willful ignorance, but on the other hand it would kind of suck to be wiped out.

HAH! You assume they would admit they were wrong. They would say it was god's will and blame the gays or the muslims or Obama for causing god's wrath. Then they would smugly tell you they will be raptured at any moment and you get to spend an eternity in hell.


Having to put up with that kind of insufferable self-righteousness for the rest of my life would truly be hell. So...self-fulfilling prophecy?
 
2012-03-17 11:12:57 PM
Well I don't have kids so I only need things to hold together for the next 40 years and I'll consider it a good run.

Watching the conservative states burn for the last 10 years would be a satisfying way to ride out my twilight years.
 
2012-03-17 11:31:23 PM
This is why we need to stop breeding, people.

Humans are terrible for the environment, especially with our current lifestyles. Yes, I am talking about you and your kids, even if you recycle. I am talking about me as well.
 
2012-03-17 11:57:04 PM
I'm all for climate change and the reduction of ice at the polar caps. I was in Florida recently and thought that drowning was a perfectly decent way in which to deal with them. In fact, most people that live in large coastal cities nearer the equator are irredeemably satanic bags of mobile meat that the world could happily do without.
 
2012-03-17 11:57:18 PM

Farking Canuck: Well I don't have kids so I only need things to hold together for the next 40 years and I'll consider it a good run.

Watching the conservative states burn for the last 10 years would be a satisfying way to ride out my twilight years.


I have a kid. I'd like her to have a nice life and have her see her kids have a nice life.
There was a tornado near Detroit just a few days ago. Tornadoes that far north aren't supposed to happen until summer. And even then they are were rare...
Yea yea weather is not climate. But that the weather is so consistently and dramatically different has to do with climate change. I am sad for my kids future. And try hard to not think about hers.
 
2012-03-18 12:02:52 AM
Would like to help:
lh3.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-03-18 12:17:15 AM

r1niceboy: I'm all for climate change and the reduction of ice at the polar caps. I was in Florida recently and thought that drowning was a perfectly decent way in which to deal with them. In fact, most people that live in large coastal cities nearer the equator are irredeemably satanic bags of mobile meat that the world could happily do without.


It's in the mid-80s with nice breezes and low humidity all through the next week or so.

Glub-glub. Seriously. Glub-glub.
 
2012-03-18 12:30:11 AM
Scientists One engineer declares planetary emergency, demands deployment of cloud-whitening technology which he invented to arctic

A more accurate headline than subtard's, but not as greenlight-friendly.
 
2012-03-18 12:31:40 AM

Torqueknot: Hollie Maea: If we had a methane purge that began to trigger one of those "extinguished most of life on earth" events, it would sort of be satisfying to watch conservatards realize that they had wiped out humanity with their willful ignorance, but on the other hand it would kind of suck to be wiped out.

HAH! You assume they would admit they were wrong. They would say it was god's will and blame the gays or the muslims or Obama for causing god's wrath. Then they would smugly tell you they will be raptured at any moment and you get to spend an eternity in hell.


Sadly, this.
 
2012-03-18 12:45:01 AM

AcneVulgaris: GAT_00: They're not wrong. Quite a bit more of our weather than you think depends on Arctic Ice. Once it goes away, and it far too soon, we're in serious trouble. That's not even touching the methane releases.

We're in serious trouble, then. We could go all out against the problem today, cut greenhouse emissions by 50%, but in a few decades the population will double, and we'll be right back where we started.

Nobody will ever acknowledge this simple fact, as will be proven by the denials downthread.


The population will only double if people keep breeding at their current rate. Contraception would help with this just as controlling CO2 emissions would help against AGW.

Is it coincidence or not that conservatives are against both of these?
 
2012-03-18 12:50:03 AM

rev. dave: We created this mess with incompetence and greed. As I see it those forces are more powerful than preservation for mankind.

The options are to either use a greed mechanism to fix the problem or to hope the whole thing was as intended and the planet will auto-correct.


That doesn't work too well when those who dominate the greed system would be hurt if they put such a mechanism in place.
 
2012-03-18 01:23:11 AM
Another imaginary catastrophe. *SIGH*

You can tell this bullshiat has just about run its course -- all the doomsayers are moving away from warming from carbon dioxide as the drawers-dousing disaster. THAT has been robustly falsified. This put-on panic over methane is a diversion. Get with the program, author... The accepted fallback position when global warming from carbon dioxide is found to be irrelevant is "Ocean Acidification." That leaves carbon dioxide as the villain, so taxes on it are HUMANITARIAN, rather than greedy; besides, the oil lobby is depending on the increased profits from such an environment, and you can't disappoint THEM, now, can you? After they paid for that little bash in Cancun, you OWE them this legislation

Besides, who will governments tax naturally occurring methane? A cow fart tax? Seriously, there is simply NOWHERE for this one to go. Stop causing trouble with this distraction, and get back to beating that carbon dioxide drum. There's a LOT of ground work at demonizing carbon dioxide, but people go out and BUY methane.

And besides, as a phony apocalypse, zombies are MUCH more fun. "Oh, the Arctic is going to fart! Everybody run!" Really? Even in the "fun factor," this has no legs.
 
2012-03-18 01:26:02 AM
GeneralJim: <easily disproved bullshiat>

Wow. It took a whole 38 posts for the first denier to show up. I don't know if I should be impressed or disappointed.
 
2012-03-18 01:26:52 AM
GeneralJim:
Besides, who will governments tax naturally occurring methane?

Try: Besides, HOW will governments tax naturally occurring methane?

/ The value of proof-reading illustrated.
 
2012-03-18 01:28:49 AM
anfrind:
GeneralJim: <easily disproved bullshiat>

Wow. It took a whole 38 posts for the first denier to show up. I don't know if I should be impressed or disappointed.

Oh, really, hoxer? What would you say I deny?
 
2012-03-18 01:32:50 AM

AcneVulgaris: Another egghead cash grab by ivory tower elitists in fancy pants.


"In summer, seawater would be pumped up to the top using some kind of renewable energy,"

Me: "What kind of energy?"

"You know......renewable enerrrrrrrrr....gy......stuff."

Me: "Yes. But in general, what type of energy were you thinking it might be based from?"

"Um....."stuff""

Me: "........................"

"LOOK! JUST STOP ASKING QUESTIONS AND GIVE US A TRILLION DOLLARS!!"
 
2012-03-18 01:33:57 AM
Hoxer: n. Hoser who uses phony science to impress the ladies.
 
2012-03-18 01:35:39 AM
Planetary, you say? Too warm, eh?

images.wikia.com

Sounds like a job for Elijah Snow.
 
2012-03-18 01:37:09 AM
GeneralJim:

You can tell this bullshiat has just about run its course -- all the doomsayers are moving away from warming from carbon dioxide as the drawers-dousing disaster. THAT has been robustly falsified BY THE VOICES IN MY HEAD

Dude, don't you have a Shroud of Turin Jesus-laser theory that has been "robustly proven" that you need talk about?
 
2012-03-18 01:37:40 AM

AcneVulgaris: We're in serious trouble, then. We could go all out against the problem today, cut greenhouse emissions by 50%, but in a few decades the population will double, and we'll be right back where we started.


Barring some extremely fortuitous (depending on your perspective) enhancements in resource conservation and food production, our planet will quite simply not support a population increase of that magnitude. Such developments are not completely beyond the realm of possibility, but it is much more likely that we will see a drastic population decrease in the coming decades, through war, famine, disease, or a combination of the three. Nature abhors imbalance...

AcneVulgaris: Nobody will ever acknowledge this simple fact, as will be proven by the denials downthread.


You cannot predict the future. Therefore, your statement is not a "simple fact"; it is conjecture, much like mine above. Postulating alternatives to your SWAG is in no way "denial".

Unless of course you can predict the future... in which case I sincerely apologize and humbly ask that you send me next week's power-ball numbers. EIP.
 
2012-03-18 01:42:07 AM

GeneralJim: You can tell this bullshiat has just about run its course -- all the doomsayers are moving away from warming from carbon dioxide as the drawers-dousing disaster. THAT has been robustly falsified. This put-on panic over methane is a diversion.


Can you ever speak the truth?? Is it part of your contract that everything you post must be verifiably false??

Methane has always, in all greenhouse gas literature, been identified as a much larger contributor to warming (on a per mol basis) than CO2. You have posted this yourself when trying to support some of your other lies. But man isn't pumping millions of tons of CH4 into the atmosphere ... we are pumping millions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere. So the emphasis has been on reducing man's production of CO2.

But, as has always been predicted, the thawing of the land above the frost line will likely result in the release of a massive amount of currently trapped CH4 (methane). If this happens, and judging by the temperature record of the arctic it is likely, the warming will accelerate significantly.

It is true that this is just one proposal by one engineer, who is clearly a communist for inventing a technology to address an issue and is daring to try and sell it. But the science behind the warming of the arctic, the subsequent release of CH4 and the expected impact is decades old and extremely well documented.

So, as usual, the green thread-shiater proves himself to be a bald-faced liar. He doesn't even try any more ... just walls of green colored lies.
 
2012-03-18 01:44:09 AM

GAT_00: We almost need a catastrophe to force us to adjust.


PNAC Manifesto? ;)
 
2012-03-18 01:45:50 AM

maxheck: GeneralJim:

You can tell this bullshiat has just about run its course -- all the doomsayers are moving away from warming from carbon dioxide as the drawers-dousing disaster. THAT has been robustly falsified BY THE VOICES IN MY HEAD


Dude, don't you have a Shroud of Turin Jesus-laser theory that has been "robustly proven" that you need talk about?

I think his one world government conspiracy theory has taken precedence over the shroud conspiracy. He's gotta stop the lizard men first!!
 
2012-03-18 01:49:35 AM
Well, if they're right, then there is drastic climate change, chaos will rule the day, ecosystems will be destroyed, and maybe millions, possibly even billions, will die. Once the human population has been significantly culled, the survivors move forward. Humanity keeps moving along, just on a drastically different trajectory. Earth will just keep spinning like nothing ever happened.
 
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