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(USA Today)   This is not a repeat from 1945   (usatoday.com) divider line 314
    More: News, Demjanjuk, nazi death camps, Nazis, German police, Red Army, U.S. citizenship, Kilian Steger  
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37980 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2012 at 8:15 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-17 10:15:43 AM  

A Bloody Disaster: Yeah... I'm not ready to condemn this guy as being a horrible person. He was probably just a schmuck who was in the wrong place at the wrong time in history and was lucky enough to live through it.

Most of us like to believe we would have been noble human beings and proactively fought against the Nazis were we Germans during this time period or in this guy's case a captured Russian soldier. Chances are most of us would have done what most people did... for all of our individual differences most of we humans are very similar.


Read up on his history. If he was who they said he was, he stood out for his cruelty and sadism, and in a Nazi death camp that is really saying something.
 
2012-03-17 10:16:20 AM  

chuckufarlie: Notabunny: chuckufarlie: Notabunny: chuckufarlie: danzak: Don't be ignorant Notabunny, you don't just walk in there, look around and decide "hmm, this isn't for me, i'm going to move along now"

The trick is to not walk in there in the first place. And the idea that he could not have refused is just plain ignorance. He was not forced into becoming a guard.

Interesting point you're leaving out is that there aren't any examples of Sobibor guards being severely punished for refusing their jobs, except for the ones who walked away with their guns. All the other guards who walked away received little or no punishment, and were then retrained and reassigned. There was no basis to assume a punishment so severe as to keep a guard at his post against his will. Unless you have information the prosecution and judges don't, you're assumption of severe punishment is unfounded.

Are you drinking this early in the morning?

Please tell me what the punishment would have been had he just dropped his gun and walked away. What punishment was so severe and certain that the mere fear of it kept him at his post?

I am not the person who made those comments. Go find the person who did and ask them your question. I never said that he would be punished


Shabby dodge.
 
2012-03-17 10:16:29 AM  

Go_Noles: I still have doubts about his guilt.


I do too. I wonder how many others have been sent to their death, based on hear-say and 2cd hand information?
 
2012-03-17 10:16:38 AM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Notabunny: Who says the prosecution is finished?

If they aren't, I'm sure you'll point out all the other investigations and charges brought up in the ten months since Demanjuk was convicted. Go ahead, we'll wait.


There are people and organization dedicated to tracking down people responsible for war crimes in WWII. Obviously, that work is winding down and just as obviously, any ongoing investigations would not necessarily be public knowledge.
 
2012-03-17 10:17:14 AM  
NAZI white knights and AGW advocates: Brothers from another mother.
 
2012-03-17 10:17:48 AM  

puffy999: liam76: Israel Supreme court decided after extraditing him, him being held, and his age it wasn't worth going after him for just being a guard. Germany didn't agree.

It's pretty bad when Israel says, "okay, you were involved with some bad shiat, but you are not worth it," yet GERMANY of all places goes all "not so fast, my friend" on you.


Those Germans are well known for keeping better records. What this tells me is, they of all people would know his history much better. I don't see a problem with them taking a closer look. See.
 
2012-03-17 10:19:38 AM  

chuckufarlie: MooseUpNorth: chuckufarlie: Refused what? To become a guard?

Refused to "volunteer", yes. What do you think would have happened to him had he refused/passed up/did not take the "opportunity" to be a guard?

Nothing would have happened to him. Regardless of your punctuation marks, he did really volunteer. He was not forced to do so.


Ohai, it's you again. "Nothing" = would have had an 80% chance of dying in a German POW camp, and failing that, 100% chance of being sent into a soviet gulag after repatriation.
 
2012-03-17 10:21:14 AM  
Charging guards when. There's no proof of any prisoner abuse is bullshiat.
 
2012-03-17 10:21:59 AM  

Bomb Head Mohammed: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7000410/75625836#c75625836" target="_blank">chuckufarlie</a>:</b> <i>Bomb Head Mohammed: chuckufarlie: You uneducated morons who believe that this "man" was forced into this job as a camp guard really need to do a little research. The Nazis had no trouble recruiting Ukrainians and others to do their dirty work. Most people in eastern Europe jumped right on the bandwagon when it came to killing and/or torturing Jews. The Nazis had all the volunteers they needed, and then some. This "man" was lying when he said he was forced to do anything in regards to the camp.

I don't suppose you have any citations to justify your blatant racism then?

I could provide them, but the fact that you had to ask confirms the fact that you are uneducated on this subject.</i>

yes, so educate me because I am so uneducated. Please show me one scintilla of evidence for your racist smear comment that "Most people in eastern Europe jumped right on the bandwagon when it came to killing and/or torturing Jews."

We're waiting.


Here ya go:
Link (new window)
 
2012-03-17 10:22:17 AM  
Damn smartphone.
 
2012-03-17 10:24:49 AM  

Notabunny: I agree with you that it's painfully slow. Look how long it's been since the crimes occurred. Look how long it took to straighten out the Sobibor/Treblinka confusion. I think most people would be happier with a faster process.


You know who else was happier with a faster process?

\tosses mic, walks off stage
 
2012-03-17 10:26:18 AM  
spiritlessons.com

Hope it burns you prick.
 
2012-03-17 10:26:38 AM  
Another interesting article, written last summer. This one explains the German motivation for conviction quite well.

The Last Nazi (new window)
 
2012-03-17 10:28:21 AM  
I find it typically ironic that many of the "free mumia" crowd are more than happy to jump on this guy's grave when some of the evidence against him was just as flimsy. Not to mention their love of all things Soros.
 
2012-03-17 10:28:36 AM  

Notabunny: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Notabunny: I get that you're a troll white knighting for a Nazi. It's too early to say you're a racist bigot Nazi troll, but I don't understand why you're so eager to cast yourself in that light.

Ukrainian Nazis? Who knew.

Dude was wrong place, wrong time, got railroaded, then after the Israelis said 'uh no', he had the hammer dropped on him by the Feds and Germany. Sad story all around.


Awww... that poor, poor, poor nazi murderer. There were 3 well known groups of guards at Sobibor; those who walked away with their guns (they were exicuted), those who walked away without their guns (they were retrained and reassigned outside the cammp system), and those who chose to stay and assist in the murders.


What do you mean? After the war or during? Did they close Sobibor during the war?

/Jew
/finding discussion interesting
 
2012-03-17 10:29:46 AM  
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7000410/75626053#c75626053" target="_blank">Kar98</a>:</b> <i>Bomb Head Mohammed: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7000410/75625836#c75625836" target="_blank">chuckufarlie</a>:</b> <i>Bomb Head Mohammed: chuckufarlie: You uneducated morons who believe that this "man" was forced into this job as a camp guard really need to do a little research. The Nazis had no trouble recruiting Ukrainians and others to do their dirty work. Most people in eastern Europe jumped right on the bandwagon when it came to killing and/or torturing Jews. The Nazis had all the volunteers they needed, and then some. This "man" was lying when he said he was forced to do anything in regards to the camp.

I don't suppose you have any citations to justify your blatant racism then?

I could provide them, but the fact that you had to ask confirms the fact that you are uneducated on this subject.</i>

yes, so educate me because I am so uneducated. Please show me one scintilla of evidence for your racist smear comment that "Most people in eastern Europe jumped right on the bandwagon when it came to killing and/or torturing Jews."

We're waiting.

Here ya go:
Link (new window)</i>

I'm sorry, but the existence of those terrible progroms does not provide evidence to your statement that "Most people in eastern Europe jumped right on the bandwagon when it came to killing and/or torturing Jews." and you should be smart enough to know that it doesn't.

At this point, I'm going to out and out call you a racist, since it's clear that you have no real evidence but rather have gone to smear the majority of eastern Europeans with a very strong charge with no evidence other than you gut hunch and pointers to non-statistical episodic evidence. That the evidence consists of abhorrent anti-semitic progroms committed by some very bad people does not somehow justify your racist smear that "Most people in eastern Europe jumped right on the bandwagon when it came to killing and/or torturing Jews."
 
2012-03-17 10:30:41 AM  

MatrixOutsider: He was also accused of being this guy:

[cdn.fd.uproxx.com image 535x356]

That's a bingo!


You don't have to be Stonewall Jackson to know you don't fight in a basement.
 
2012-03-17 10:31:12 AM  

chuckufarlie: Notabunny: chuckufarlie: Notabunny: chuckufarlie: Notabunny: chuckufarlie: danzak: Don't be ignorant Notabunny, you don't just walk in there, look around and decide "hmm, this isn't for me, i'm going to move along now"

The trick is to not walk in there in the first place. And the idea that he could not have refused is just plain ignorance. He was not forced into becoming a guard.

Interesting point you're leaving out is that there aren't any examples of Sobibor guards being severely punished for refusing their jobs, except for the ones who walked away with their guns. All the other guards who walked away received little or no punishment, and were then retrained and reassigned. There was no basis to assume a punishment so severe as to keep a guard at his post against his will. Unless you have information the prosecution and judges don't, you're assumption of severe punishment is unfounded.

Are you drinking this early in the morning?

Please tell me what the punishment would have been had he just dropped his gun and walked away. What punishment was so severe and certain that the mere fear of it kept him at his post?

I am not the person who made those comments. Go find the person who did and ask them your question. I never said that he would be punished

Shabby dodge.

okay, asshole, point out the post where I said that he would get punished if he dropped his gun and walked away.


I argued there was no proof of any punishment severe enough to keep Demjanjuk from simply dropping his gun and walking away. I further argued that the guards who did so were simply retrained and reassigned. I asked for any proof showing my arguments are false. You defended danzak's position by saying, "Are you drinking this early in the morning?" without providing any information showing my position is false. That's called a doge, And it was a pretty weak and shabby one based on attacking me and not the issue. Attack me all you like, but until you and danzak show me the certain and severe punishment Demjanjuk was so afraid of that it forced him to assist in murder against his will, my position (which mirrors the position of the prosecution and the court) stands.
 
2012-03-17 10:31:13 AM  

9beers: Charging guards when. There's no proof of any prisoner abuse is bullshiat.


Guards abused the inmates all the time. Now whether or not this dude was actually a guard, or just a convinient scap-goat to place your hatred upon.....
 
2012-03-17 10:33:30 AM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Notabunny: I agree with you that it's painfully slow. Look how long it's been since the crimes occurred. Look how long it took to straighten out the Sobibor/Treblinka confusion. I think most people would be happier with a faster process.

You know who else was happier with a faster process?

\tosses mic, walks off stage


For you

img.photobucket.com

How's the veil?
 
2012-03-17 10:34:44 AM  

Bomb Head Mohammed: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7000410/75626053#c75626053" target="_blank">Kar98</a>:</b> <i>Bomb Head Mohammed: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7000410/75625836#c75625836" target="_blank">chuckufarlie</a>:</b> <i>Bomb Head Mohammed: chuckufarlie: You uneducated morons who believe that this "man" was forced into this job as a camp guard really need to do a little research. The Nazis had no trouble recruiting Ukrainians and others to do their dirty work. Most people in eastern Europe jumped right on the bandwagon when it came to killing and/or torturing Jews. The Nazis had all the volunteers they needed, and then some. This "man" was lying when he said he was forced to do anything in regards to the camp.

I don't suppose you have any citations to justify your blatant racism then?

I could provide them, but the fact that you had to ask confirms the fact that you are uneducated on this subject.</i>

yes, so educate me because I am so uneducated. Please show me one scintilla of evidence for your racist smear comment that "Most people in eastern Europe jumped right on the bandwagon when it came to killing and/or torturing Jews."

We're waiting.

Here ya go:
Link (new window)</i>

I'm sorry, but the existence of those terrible progroms does not provide evidence to your statement that "Most people in eastern Europe jumped right on the bandwagon when it came to killing and/or torturing Jews." and you should be smart enough to know that it doesn't.

At this point, I'm going to out and out call you a racist, since it's clear that you have no real evidence but rather have gone to smear the majority of eastern Europeans with a very strong charge with no evidence other than you gut hunch and pointers to non-statistical episodic evidence. That the evidence consists of abhorrent anti-semitic progroms committed by some very bad people does not somehow justify your racist smear that "M ...


http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=gvKVLcMVIuG&b=394663#19

Sorry. While the Eastern Europeans were not particularly bad, they still had a pretty interesting sense of cooperation. Russia and the area in general is extremely xenophobic and antisemitic, even now. Of course, the French sucked too. Massively. So ultimately no one is getting out of the situation with angel wings.

This is what people don't get - people are farking evil (and good, but fewer of them). Atrocities often bring out many helpers.
 
2012-03-17 10:35:40 AM  
At this point, I'm going to out and out call you a racist

Whatever creams your Twinkie. Anti semitism has a long and rich tradition in every European country, eastern or otherwise, and if pointing that out is racist, then I guess I am an anti European racist from Europe. Well either that or you're a blithering idiot.
 
2012-03-17 10:37:46 AM  
The Nazis had no trouble recruiting Ukrainians and others to do their dirty work. Most people in eastern Europe jumped right on the bandwagon when it came to killing and/or torturing Jews

A lot of Eastern European's helped the Jews too so don't paint too broad a brush stroke. My brother is working on this project:
Jewish Ukrainian relations (new window)

Also, check the Eastern Europeans who are deemed "Righteous among the Nations":
Righteous List (new window)
 
2012-03-17 10:38:39 AM  

Cataholic: I find it typically ironic that many of the "free mumia" crowd are more than happy to jump on this guy's grave when some of the evidence against him was just as flimsy. Not to mention their love of all things Soros.


The evidence of him being a guard at a death camp is rock solid. Just like the case against mumia.
 
2012-03-17 10:39:54 AM  

Kar98: At this point, I'm going to out and out call you a racist

Whatever creams your Twinkie. Anti semitism has a long and rich tradition in every European country, eastern or otherwise, and if pointing that out is racist, then I guess I am an anti European racist from Europe. Well either that or you're a blithering idiot.


This is true. My family fled to the US after being persecuted by pogroms.

I once met a European Jew who told me he couldn't believe that we "got away" with being "white" here in the US. He said in Europe he is a Jew first and anything else after that. I thought that was pretty horrifying.
 
2012-03-17 10:45:12 AM  

Janusdog: Notabunny: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Notabunny: I get that you're a troll white knighting for a Nazi. It's too early to say you're a racist bigot Nazi troll, but I don't understand why you're so eager to cast yourself in that light.

Ukrainian Nazis? Who knew.

Dude was wrong place, wrong time, got railroaded, then after the Israelis said 'uh no', he had the hammer dropped on him by the Feds and Germany. Sad story all around.


Awww... that poor, poor, poor nazi murderer. There were 3 well known groups of guards at Sobibor; those who walked away with their guns (they were exicuted), those who walked away without their guns (they were retrained and reassigned outside the cammp system), and those who chose to stay and assist in the murders.

What do you mean? After the war or during? Did they close Sobibor during the war?

/Jew
/finding discussion interesting


Sorry. I was trying to be snarky and ended up being unclear. I was trying to say Demjanjuk had the opportunity to leave without fear of severe punishment, but he chose to stay and assist in the murders of the prisoners.
 
2012-03-17 10:46:02 AM  

McManus_brothers: Germany is REALLY serious about their "See?! We're not Nazis anymore! We're good guys!" attitude. Sometimes to the point of ridiculousness, like in this case.


That all well and good, but if they really want to improve their image, they should stick to what they do best: cars and beer.
 
2012-03-17 10:46:05 AM  
Notabunny: Attack me all you like, but until you and danzak show me the certain and severe punishment Demjanjuk was so afraid of that it forced him to assist in murder against his will, my position (which mirrors the position of the prosecution and the court) stands.

I'm not sure why the burden of proof is on me but I made a point earlier that it's almost impossible to prove what may have happened. The only thing we can do is take what we know of the circumstances at the time. I've already said that he was facing discipline in another camp, I think his "options" were probably limited. The prosecution made claims that he volunteered but there was no proof offered of that. Generally, the burden of proof is on the accuser but I guess not in this case (which has been the point all along)
 
2012-03-17 10:46:23 AM  
The reason Ze Germans felt comfortable with this case was largely due to the investigative work done by a retired judge (their legal/court system is completely different to the US, btw). Among interesting bits leading to prosecution was how they came to charge him as an accessory to X number of deaths.

Most Nazi camps, while they murdered obscene numbers of Jews, left behind many survivors. Sobibor, OTOH, was purely a death camp. Derpjerkjuk was trained by the SS (after being captured) to be a guard ( thanks you goose-stepping turdgurglers for being so meticulous in your document-making and records-keeping). Since prosecutors knew his role at Sobibor, his length of service, and the number of murdered persons over that stretch, you get your accessory count. Even the court recognized it was a unique method to prosecute, but apparently not an unsatisfactory one.

In the end, he never spoke in his own defense, his lawyer tried to turn him into the victim, equate him with camp survivors who were selected to remain alive only to perform grueling physical labor, including burials. He was a coward his whole life. Hopefully his rotting corpse will provide some basic nutrients for a nice patch of flowers.
 
2012-03-17 10:48:27 AM  
Bomb Head Mohammed:

I see your point and agree with you completely, This man was a victim of convenience. He suffered because the people needed someone to blame. Even if the most evil thing he did was a salute a nazi officer. Fark biased court systems. Fark injustice.
 
2012-03-17 10:49:41 AM  

Janusdog: Atrocities often bring out many helpers.


Man, if that's not the truth. Too many people believe the John Wayne and Lone Ranger shows are factual documentaries.
 
2012-03-17 10:52:32 AM  

Notabunny:

I was trying to say Demjanjuk had the opportunity to leave without fear of severe punishment.


And you're wrong.
 
2012-03-17 10:53:47 AM  
I mean what the hell, is there anyone in this thread that can come up with better than "He was a guard at death camp, so he probably deserved it"?
 
2012-03-17 10:56:50 AM  
Nope
 
2012-03-17 10:58:48 AM  

chuckufarlie: wrong place, wrong time??? Is that how you justify what he did? Nobody forced him to be a prison guard.


You are a male of military age in a region between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. What kind sort of options are open to you?

I suppose I'm a pragmatist, and I lay a lot of the blame on the people who were involved BEFORE the war started. That was the chance that people had to really effect good change. But unfortunately once war breaks out, there isn't much of an option, especially when war has broken out between a totalitarian and oppressive communist dictatorship and an oppressive fascist dictatorship.

Soviet Union: Here, go march into death.
Man: Is there another option? *bang*
Soviet Union: You next in line, carry that body over there, then go march into death.

Nazi Germany: Here, be a guard.
Man: Is there another option?
Nazi Germany: Of course. There is this death grinder over there with the Soviet Union, the aforementioned guard job, or be the one being guarded but at the front of the line.

There was no cake option.
 
2012-03-17 11:00:25 AM  
they could have gone to the same generation living in Germany and found plenty of Wehrmacht or other military veterans who were guilty of crimes against humanity or other war crimes.
 
2012-03-17 11:00:31 AM  

danzak: Notabunny: Attack me all you like, but until you and danzak show me the certain and severe punishment Demjanjuk was so afraid of that it forced him to assist in murder against his will, my position (which mirrors the position of the prosecution and the court) stands.

I'm not sure why the burden of proof is on me but I made a point earlier that it's almost impossible to prove what may have happened. The only thing we can do is take what we know of the circumstances at the time. I've already said that he was facing discipline in another camp, I think his "options" were probably limited. The prosecution made claims that he volunteered but there was no proof offered of that. Generally, the burden of proof is on the accuser but I guess not in this case (which has been the point all along)


But that was one of the prosecution's main points which successfully convinced the judges. Demjanjuk had options. He could have chosen discipline and reassignment. (I'm probably mistaken, but I seem to remember that the 'discipline' was equivalent to a bad annual evaluation and a small pay doc) That was the established process. But Demjanjuk chose to stay and assist. That's one of the reasons he was convicted. After receiving the special training in Trawniki, Demjanjuk knew exactly what he was going to do in Sobibor. After he began working in Sobibor, he knew he had options and choices. But Demjanjuk's choice was to stay in Sobibor and assist.
 
2012-03-17 11:00:46 AM  
"Liberal" blogger Glenn Greenwald will no doubt accuse the Jews of murdering this great hero.
 
2012-03-17 11:01:56 AM  

Kar98: Notabunny:

I was trying to say Demjanjuk had the opportunity to leave without fear of severe punishment.

And you're wrong.


The judges who convicted him disagree with you.
 
2012-03-17 11:06:27 AM  
With a helpful photo of what a dead Nazzy might look like:

i.usatoday.net
 
2012-03-17 11:10:00 AM  

Notabunny: Kar98: Notabunny:

I was trying to say Demjanjuk had the opportunity to leave without fear of severe punishment.

And you're wrong.

The judges who convicted him disagree with you.


They're just being nazis.
 
2012-03-17 11:16:05 AM  
Dead Nazis are delicious.
 
2012-03-17 11:17:14 AM  

Bomb Head Mohammed: arseloch


I take my hat off to you.
 
2012-03-17 11:21:49 AM  

Bomb Head Mohammed: To call this guy a "convicted Nazi criminal" as the USAToday headline does is terribly misleading, and there are sure to be plenty of "pile on" comments from morans who have only the most superficial knowledge of the case.

So, let's review.

This guy was accused of being "Ivan the Terrible", a particularly sadistic camp guard at TREBLINKA. For this charge, he was sentenced to death in Israel. The conviction was overturned and he was set free by the Israeli supreme court which came to its senses and realized that the accusations were baseless as the evidence against him was forged and based on faulty witness testimony. How do we know, conclusively, that it was false?

Because in the course of things it became clear that he did serve as guard at SOBIBOR, a completely different camp.

And the above is about all we know. There are no reliable witnesses indicating whether he was a particularly harsh guard or not at sobibor. He may well have been, but there is no evidence whatsoever to support this contention.

He was furthermore not an officer and to even consider his situation purely voluntary is a stretch. He was otherwise a displaced slav on the lowest rung who due to his ethnic origins and circumstances was basically caught between the terrible powers of the soviet union and nazi germany. So, he took this job as a survival tactic. Dishonorable? yes, absolutely. But you also have to take into consideration that germans from germany who served in similar roles, if they survived, were rarely imprisoned unless there was some specific evidence of specific crimes (all officers were out of prison by the early 50s at the latest) and many went on to get german government pensions for their service. Some still do.

By contrast, this guy was in and out of prisons despite there being no specific or reliable accusations against him other than "he was a guard at Sobibor" from the mid 1980s to his death.

He was also "in the SS" in only the most technical terms. I ...


Well, all that needs to be said about this has been said here.

Well done, sir and/or ma'am.
 
2012-03-17 11:22:24 AM  

chuckufarlie: You uneducated morons who believe that this "man" was forced into this job as a camp guard really need to do a little research. The Nazis had no trouble recruiting Ukrainians...



Now why would any Ukrainian consider defecting from Soviet forces and joining the Nazis who were fighting the Soviets?

Possibly because they survived their own "Holocaust" (Holodomor - the one you never heard of) where Stalin and his henchman Lazar Kaganovich systematically and intentionally starved circa 7.5 MILLION Ukrainians to death in 1932-33 as collective punishment for their failure to cooperate with Soviet rule.

Demjanjuk was born in 1920. He would have been 12 years old when this genocide-by-famine took place, and I'm sure you can imagine the warm memories he had of watching millions of his fellow Ukrainians be systematically starved to death by the Soviets - and likely nearly starving to death himself.

And you wonder why Ukrainians might be interested in joining forces with ANYONE battling Stalin?

So this hapless Ukrainian survived one episode of extreme, tortuous, and murderous oppression (Holodomor), participated in another episode of extreme, tortuous, and murderous oppression (the Holocaust), was put on trial by a country that is currently engaged in yet another episode of extreme, tortuous, and murderous oppression (Israel), was found not guilty, only to be put on trial AGAIN by the country that committed the second mentioned episode of extreme, tortuous, and murderous oppression (Germany).

Yeah, he led a charmed life, that Demjanjuk guy.

I for one am glad to see that it's finally over.
 
2012-03-17 11:33:00 AM  

Notabunny: Janusdog: Atrocities often bring out many helpers.

Man, if that's not the truth. Too many people believe the John Wayne and Lone Ranger shows are factual documentaries.


These situations are exactly where the phrase "the banality of evil" comes from.

When one of the top Nazis (I don't remember who at the moment...) was caught by the Israelis, they put him through psychological testing. All it showed was a guy who liked accounting and liked the pomp and circumstance of parades and such. He was not grossly psychotic or pathological.

Learning that during my psych doctorate will always stick with me. We are all capable of making the wrong choice. Evil does not announce itself with hallmarks.
 
2012-03-17 11:46:19 AM  
WW2 just does not lose it's popularity.

Hey all you moral Americans, we can't change WW2 but your govt has been killng innocent people for years. What are you doing about it?
 
2012-03-17 11:46:30 AM  
The big tip-off was....

While a truck driver in Michigan, his CB handle was "Shake-N-Bake"
 
2012-03-17 11:47:26 AM  
And my dad outlived another of the bastards he fought against.
 
2012-03-17 11:47:54 AM  
So some of you are saying that being a guard at a camp would be enough to call him a war criminal? You do realize that not everybody at the camps was responsible for mistreating, torturing and killing, right? The guards at these camps were ordinary German soldiers that received orders to report for duty. What choice did they have? Before you talk about a soldiers right to disobey unlawful order or a duty to report abuse, lets remember that we're talking about Germany in WWII and not the modern military. If a guard, or anybody else, would have refused to follow orders, they would have been shot on site or if they were lucky, sent to a labor camp where they most likely would have been abused and killed.

Some of you seem to think that they posted flyers looking for soldiers who wanted to work at death camps and kill Jews.
 
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