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(Japan Times)   Citing earthquake and aging fears, Japan considers abandoning Tokyo's entire elevated freeway system, replacing it with underground tunnels (w/ artist's rendition of New Tokyo)   (japantimes.co.jp) divider line 73
    More: Unlikely, environmental hazards, Tohoku, Rotary Club, Democratic Party of Japan, Tokyo, freeways, earthquakes, tunnels  
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5364 clicks; posted to Geek » on 17 Mar 2012 at 11:10 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-17 09:07:26 AM
Do they ever think this stuff through? Does Godzilla not live underground? Duh!
 
2012-03-17 09:51:49 AM
What happens during a Tsunami when you're in tunnel?
 
2012-03-17 10:07:39 AM
Neo-Tokyo is about to explode.
 
2012-03-17 10:13:46 AM
i1208.photobucket.com
 
2012-03-17 10:17:44 AM

PacManDreaming: Neo-Tokyo is about to explode.


TETSUO!!!
 
2012-03-17 10:44:39 AM

Shadow Blasko: PacManDreaming: Neo-Tokyo is about to explode.

TETSUO!!!


KANEDAAAAA!!
 
2012-03-17 11:13:45 AM
Because the first place you want to be during an earthquake is underground.
 
2012-03-17 11:17:41 AM
Know who else wanted to move the main traffic of their capitol underground?
 
2012-03-17 11:23:08 AM
Wake me when we have Tokyo 3.
 
2012-03-17 11:26:33 AM

GendoIkari: Wake me when we have Tokyo 3.


You'll probably be woken up by the impact right before they build Tokyo 3.
 
2012-03-17 11:37:45 AM
Because tunnels are immune to the effects of earthquakes ?
 
2012-03-17 11:39:09 AM

LordJiro: Because the first place you want to be during an earthquake is underground.


This. How would an underground highway be any safer? I'd rather take my chances aboveground.
 
2012-03-17 11:39:11 AM
As a citizen of Boston and a survivor of the Big Dig, I can honestly state the Japanese are fundamentally unprepared for what they are saying
 
2012-03-17 11:41:14 AM
Underground structures ARE much safer than above ground structures during earthquake loading. The perfect location is an open field, but we're talking about a city here so...

/civil engineer
 
2012-03-17 11:41:38 AM
I can think of SEVERAL reasons this won't work.

1. Big Dig.
2. Balrog
3. .... Um. Oops.
 
2012-03-17 11:41:43 AM
Will the sky be the color of a TV tuned to a dead channel?
 
2012-03-17 11:47:01 AM

snarky kong: Underground structures ARE much safer than above ground structures during earthquake loading. The perfect location is an open field, but we're talking about a city here so...

/civil engineer


How does that work? I'm curious.
 
2012-03-17 11:47:56 AM

The Incredible Sexual Egg: As a citizen of Boston and a survivor of the Big Dig, I can honestly state the Japanese are fundamentally unprepared for what they are saying


I would trust Japanese officials, developers, and contractors to study the Big Dig and learn from its mistakes.
 
2012-03-17 11:50:17 AM
All the more efficient for sarin gas attacks!
 
2012-03-17 11:53:31 AM

Janusdog: snarky kong: Underground structures ARE much safer than above ground structures during earthquake loading. The perfect location is an open field, but we're talking about a city here so...

/civil engineer

How does that work? I'm curious.


If the earthquake hits a resonant frequency of the structure, you're hosed.

aboveground structure: all too likely. Especially since concrete is great under compression but terrible under tension. Swaying = tension on one side, compression on the other. Lather, rinse, repeat.

underground structure: The inertia of the soil around you makes that resonant frequency matching highly unlikely. You may get cracking and lose some cladding, but are unlikely to have sudden catastrophic failure.

/electrical engineer, so you mud dogs correct me if I'm wrong.
 
2012-03-17 11:54:18 AM
Bigu Digu
 
2012-03-17 12:02:13 PM
All things aside, driving on Tokyo's elevated freeway* tollway at night is a pretty unique experience. The highway weaves between office buildings that are all lit up with workers still working inside.

* Japanese highways are neither free nor cheap
 
2012-03-17 12:03:39 PM

FishyFred: Shadow Blasko: PacManDreaming: Neo-Tokyo is about to explode.

TETSUO!!!

KANEDAAAAA!!


Dammit.

*walks away, kicking at the dirt*
 
2012-03-17 12:04:27 PM

0Icky0: Bigu Digu


I ror'd
 
2012-03-17 12:13:54 PM

way south: Know who else wanted to move the main traffic of their capitol underground?


Saves the hassle of recovery and burial. It's very polite.
 
2012-03-17 12:21:19 PM
Collapsing bridges vs. trapped in tunnels and potentially buried alive.

Hard choices.
 
2012-03-17 12:33:12 PM

Janusdog: snarky kong: Underground structures ARE much safer than above ground structures during earthquake loading. The perfect location is an open field, but we're talking about a city here so...

/civil engineer

How does that work? I'm curious.


One way to think about it is that the surrounding ground restrains the possible deformations of the tunnel while above-ground structures have all that free air to shake in. Another thing is that the soil can amplify shaking, so that shaking at the surface will be greater than shaking at depth, so even with the same resistance to damage, underground structures will have lower EQ loads.
 
2012-03-17 12:38:53 PM
I'm sure they haven't forgotten this yet:

lh5.ggpht.com
 
2012-03-17 12:43:21 PM
Before putting the expressway system underground, the Japanese government better revamp the whole subway system. Tokyo's subway system is too old.
 
2012-03-17 12:55:45 PM

SweetHomeNowhere: Tokyo's subway system is too old.


i44.tinypic.com
 
2012-03-17 01:08:28 PM

One Bad Apple: Because tunnels are immune to the effects of earthquakes ?


ummm, have you seen video of earthquakes? all that shaking is above ground.

Its why you pack things in Styrofoam, so they don't break.

Earth is Mother Gaia's packing peanuts
 
2012-03-17 01:16:49 PM
At least they'll be prepared for the planet bombs from Gamalon. The rest of the world will have to catch up when they start falling.
 
2012-03-17 01:30:24 PM
We did a bang up job of the Big Dig, so obviously no one else would be able to successfully execute a large scale tunnel project. Besides, We Can't Afford That (tm) so no one else can spend anything on infrastructure either.

Unlikely indeed.
 
2012-03-17 01:39:14 PM
And maybe America can get ahead of the curve and upgrade our power grid, wish they would start in my neighborhood by burying the power lines.
I know, has nothing to do with Japan, just wishful thinking.
 
2012-03-17 01:44:05 PM

FrancoFile: Will the sky be the color of a TV tuned to a dead channel?


Only in Chiba.
 
2012-03-17 01:51:34 PM

FrancoFile: Janusdog: snarky kong: Underground structures ARE much safer than above ground structures during earthquake loading. The perfect location is an open field, but we're talking about a city here so...

/civil engineer

How does that work? I'm curious.

If the earthquake hits a resonant frequency of the structure, you're hosed.

aboveground structure: all too likely. Especially since concrete is great under compression but terrible under tension. Swaying = tension on one side, compression on the other. Lather, rinse, repeat.

underground structure: The inertia of the soil around you makes that resonant frequency matching highly unlikely. You may get cracking and lose some cladding, but are unlikely to have sudden catastrophic failure.

/electrical engineer, so you mud dogs correct me if I'm wrong.


Cool. Thanks.
 
2012-03-17 02:05:01 PM

RaceDTruck: What happens during a Tsunami when you're in tunnel?


Get the scuba gear out of your trunk and swim biatch, swim.
 
2012-03-17 02:17:09 PM
Here's a better idea: MOVE PEOPLE OUT OF FARKING TOKYO.

A city of 35 million people is insane.
 
2012-03-17 02:20:35 PM
60 meters underground? i can barely imagine the length of the on/offramps needed just to drive on that network. Also, i think they're underestimating the cost of digging through solid rock. But I agree on the assessment that it'll hold better in an earthquake.
 
2012-03-17 02:22:52 PM

Marine1: Here's a better idea: MOVE PEOPLE OUT OF FARKING TOKYO.

A city of 35 million people is insane.


There's nowhere to move out. If it's flat enough, they got cities on it. If it's not flat, they try to grow some food. And there's alot of mountains in japan. On the other hand, that has made them experts when it comes to public transit, i believe.
 
2012-03-17 02:31:13 PM

Eps05: Marine1: Here's a better idea: MOVE PEOPLE OUT OF FARKING TOKYO.

A city of 35 million people is insane.

There's nowhere to move out. If it's flat enough, they got cities on it. If it's not flat, they try to grow some food. And there's alot of mountains in japan. On the other hand, that has made them experts when it comes to public transit, i believe.


Plus nobody wants to live in the small towns and villages any more. Every year or so, somebody posts a photo album on Fark from some gaijin who travels around the countryside taking photos of abandoned towns. Makes the Six Flags New Orleans look downright cheerful in comparison.
 
2012-03-17 02:35:30 PM
Citing earthquake and aging fears, Japan considers abandoning Tokyo's entire elevated freeway system, replacing it with underground tunnels (w/ artist's rendition of New Tokyo) frickin' Japan

Get the fark off that death trap and come to America - we got plenty of room for tens of millions of well-educated folks.
 
2012-03-17 02:42:06 PM

AliceBToklasLives: Citing earthquake and aging fears, Japan considers abandoning Tokyo's entire elevated freeway system, replacing it with underground tunnels (w/ artist's rendition of New Tokyo) frickin' Japan

Get the fark off that death trap and come to America - we got plenty of room for tens of millions of well-educated folks.


We sure do!

library.thinkquest.org

Oh sorry, I guess my travel brochure is a bit outdated.
 
2012-03-17 02:49:48 PM

FrancoFile: Eps05: Marine1: Here's a better idea: MOVE PEOPLE OUT OF FARKING TOKYO.

A city of 35 million people is insane.

There's nowhere to move out. If it's flat enough, they got cities on it. If it's not flat, they try to grow some food. And there's alot of mountains in japan. On the other hand, that has made them experts when it comes to public transit, i believe.

Plus nobody wants to live in the small towns and villages any more. Every year or so, somebody posts a photo album on Fark from some gaijin who travels around the countryside taking photos of abandoned towns. Makes the Six Flags New Orleans look downright cheerful in comparison.


So... they've got perfectly good spots to live in that they abandon, and move into a large city located under a large volcano and on a massive fault line- one that will go off some day. Now, they're planning on spending billions of dollars to re-build an unimaginably crowded transportation system so even more people can move about the city. Granted, the underground system might not get wrecked by an earth quake as easily as an above-ground one, but it's still going to be a mess when the big one hits.

I know I'm just an Ugly AmericanTM from the Midwest, but everything about that just seems insane.
 
2012-03-17 03:00:31 PM

Skyfrog: AliceBToklasLives: Citing earthquake and aging fears, Japan considers abandoning Tokyo's entire elevated freeway system, replacing it with underground tunnels (w/ artist's rendition of New Tokyo) frickin' Japan

Get the fark off that death trap and come to America - we got plenty of room for tens of millions of well-educated folks.

We sure do!

[library.thinkquest.org image 440x310]

Oh sorry, I guess my travel brochure is a bit outdated.


Montana is about the same size as Japan and isn't doing jack shiat.

Montana GDP = $36 billion
Montana population = 1 million people

Japan GDP = $5,855 billion
Japan population = 127 million people

/yep, we got room - 126 million Japanese folks can live in Montana alone - if we include Alaska, Wyoming, the Dakotas, and other useless states., rednecks won't even notice them + our GDP will rise by about 1/2 - We will pass the EU and China, India, etc. will never catch up with us
 
2012-03-17 03:24:24 PM

Marine1: FrancoFile: Eps05: Marine1: Here's a better idea: MOVE PEOPLE OUT OF FARKING TOKYO.

A city of 35 million people is insane.

There's nowhere to move out. If it's flat enough, they got cities on it. If it's not flat, they try to grow some food. And there's alot of mountains in japan. On the other hand, that has made them experts when it comes to public transit, i believe.

Plus nobody wants to live in the small towns and villages any more. Every year or so, somebody posts a photo album on Fark from some gaijin who travels around the countryside taking photos of abandoned towns. Makes the Six Flags New Orleans look downright cheerful in comparison.

So... they've got perfectly good spots to live in that they abandon, and move into a large city located under a large volcano and on a massive fault line- one that will go off some day. Now, they're planning on spending billions of dollars to re-build an unimaginably crowded transportation system so even more people can move about the city. Granted, the underground system might not get wrecked by an earth quake as easily as an above-ground one, but it's still going to be a mess when the big one hits.

I know I'm just an Ugly AmericanTM from the Midwest, but everything about that just seems insane.


Those "perfectly good spots" don't have jobs.
 
2012-03-17 04:01:26 PM
I have a compromise that I think will work for everyone. Instead of all Japanese citizens moving to the U.S., let's just have all single Japanese women between the ages of 18-40 move to the U.S.

/And by "everyone" I mean "me"
 
2012-03-17 04:02:48 PM

LawrencePerson: I have a compromise that I think will work for everyone. Instead of all Japanese citizens moving to the U.S., let's just have all single Japanese women between the ages of 18-40 move to the U.S.

/And by "everyone" I mean "me"


Even the ugly ones?
 
2012-03-17 04:04:02 PM
I hope their contractors and officials are less corrupt than the ones in Boston. I don't want any concrete panels falling on my car, here or in Tokyo.
 
2012-03-17 04:14:00 PM

way south: Know who else wanted to move the main traffic of their capitol underground?


Massachusetts?
 
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