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(Digital Trends)   RIAA says major ISPs set to turn into copyright police by July, throttling bandwidth and cutting off internet access to customers who are suspected of downloading copyrighted content illegally   (digitaltrends.com) divider line 254
    More: Scary, ISPs, RIAA, environmental mitigation, automated system  
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5788 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 Mar 2012 at 4:25 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-16 10:02:33 AM

a9735z: Carth: Would it work if you connect through a VPN?

As long as it's encrypted (which they almost always are) and you know what's at the other end, then no they shouldn't be able to do deep packet inspection. It all depends on how secure your VPN is and how much you trust them.


If that is the case the whole program seems like a waste of time. If people can get around it with a $9 a month VPN or usenet subscription why waste time implementing it?
 
2012-03-16 10:02:46 AM

kab: a9735z: You're not talking about tangible goods or services when talking about digital content.

Give a call to Autodesk, Adobe, etc, and pose this argument. Let me know how that works out for you.


You mean companies that have been quite open about the fact they love it when kids pirate their stuff as they get used to it which feeds companies needing people familiar with their products who then buy lots of legit copies? Same business model Microsoft used with then emerging markets in fact.

Sure, I'll call them. Give me a phone number , but they'll just tell me what I already told you and as I doubt you believe what I just wrote I don't see how you'll believe me when I post the exact same thing (with some of the words changed around) as I transcribe the PR bunnies statement for you.
 
2012-03-16 10:06:24 AM

change1211:
Are you sure it was actually a bootleg? I had that happen to me and my copy came from Microsoft.


Pretty confident. The machine had never had any hardware changed around and ended up being a print server that was used quite infrequently. Reinstalling the OS and letting it update resulted in the same failure.

It looks exactly like the other OEM copy of XP I've got which is legit, although I will say the shrink wrap on the bootleg is of a higher quality (thicker) than the legit one.
 
2012-03-16 10:09:41 AM

Three Crooked Squirrels: Their methods are quite heavy handed, but the bottom line is that people keep stealing their shiat, and technology has made it very easy to do. Stop stealing their shiat.



People want there product...the only problem is companies don't make it available. It's hidden behind paywalls, only the latest two episodes available for streaming (10 days after airing!!!), subscribe and watch episodes on our channel (but only when they are scheduled, no on demand function, wait 10 months for DVD volume releases), etc.

Meanwhile, someone is offering what I want online right now. If these assholes stopped trying to constrict supply, and simply provided the product they have when consumers demand it, they wouldn't be having these problems.
 
2012-03-16 10:10:47 AM

Carth: a9735z: Carth: Would it work if you connect through a VPN?

As long as it's encrypted (which they almost always are) and you know what's at the other end, then no they shouldn't be able to do deep packet inspection. It all depends on how secure your VPN is and how much you trust them.

If that is the case the whole program seems like a waste of time. If people can get around it with a $9 a month VPN or usenet subscription why waste time implementing it?


thatsthejoke.jpg

Trying to block file-sharing is like trying to block the sun from rising in the east. I can not think of a more pointless exercise (for the modern tech industry).

If they really go off the deep end you will see a failure of government/industry policy that will rival the War on Drugs. The War on Piracy. That will be a spectacular failure of epic proportions.
 
2012-03-16 10:10:54 AM

Codenamechaz: So they're gonna completely ignore the whole FCC's "YOU CAN'T THROTTLE YOUR CUSTOMER'S INTERNET" rule then?


Who's going to stop them?
 
2012-03-16 10:17:35 AM

dervish16108: Codenamechaz: So they're gonna completely ignore the whole FCC's "YOU CAN'T THROTTLE YOUR CUSTOMER'S INTERNET" rule then?

Who's going to stop them?


In an ideal world you guys in America would have had the same hammer of god descend on the telco's as British Telecom did here. They were told in no uncertain terms that, yes, these other companies can and will make use of the infrastructure the tax payers paid for... you will not fark with them or we will fark with you.

At which point BT had to do some serious leg work to remain competitive against all these quite small ISP's busy installing racks of equipment in exchanges and providing arguably better DSL service than they were.

Whilst our broadband speeds may not be impressive compared to some, if BT (or TalkTalk or Be or whoever) annoy their customers too much they'll jump ship and it takes nothing more than a single phone call and a 3 day downtime.
 
2012-03-16 10:19:01 AM

JK47: People want there product...the only problem is companies don't make it available. It's hidden behind paywalls, only the latest two episodes available for streaming (10 days after airing!!!), subscribe and watch episodes on our channel (but only when they are scheduled, no on demand function, wait 10 months for DVD volume releases), etc.

Meanwhile, someone is offering what I want online right now. If these assholes stopped trying to constrict supply, and simply provided the product they have when consumers demand it, they wouldn't be having these problems.


And that is EXACTLY why the MPAA and RIAA (and any equivalent group) is pants on hard retarded. These are agencies that predate (as do most of the people running them) the modern internet. Some of the people running that shiat predate the invention of the atomic bomb for f*ck sake.

Here's a perfect example of why they are f*cked. Say television show XYZ airs on a Monday. If someone doesn't live in the U.S. they have to wait months until it's available locally (and then usually butchered with dubbing) or wait for the DVDs to come out in a specific region.

How about this Hollywood. I'm willing to hand you money and in exchange you let me download the episode immediately in H.264 or DivX or whatever. With no DRM.

Give money, receive product.

Because they make it so, so, so f*cking difficult to give them money to watch a show on release, most people just say "well then f*ck it" and torrent it. Hell even people in the U.S. that don't bother with cable TV (because besides sports who the f*ck needs cable with commercials?). Why am I going to wait a day to go to iTunes and get a DRMd version (wherein I also am forced to use that shiatty software) when I can go on any torrent site 20 minutes after it airs and download it?
 
2012-03-16 10:21:50 AM

Vaneshi: dervish16108: Codenamechaz: So they're gonna completely ignore the whole FCC's "YOU CAN'T THROTTLE YOUR CUSTOMER'S INTERNET" rule then?

Who's going to stop them?

In an ideal world you guys in America would have had the same hammer of god descend on the telco's as British Telecom did here. They were told in no uncertain terms that, yes, these other companies can and will make use of the infrastructure the tax payers paid for... you will not fark with them or we will fark with you.

At which point BT had to do some serious leg work to remain competitive against all these quite small ISP's busy installing racks of equipment in exchanges and providing arguably better DSL service than they were.

Whilst our broadband speeds may not be impressive compared to some, if BT (or TalkTalk or Be or whoever) annoy their customers too much they'll jump ship and it takes nothing more than a single phone call and a 3 day downtime.


I dunno I've seen British ISPs that offer 20-30 Mbit (which is nothing to sneeze at).

The only problem is that the whole "lawsuitlarity" seems to be even worse in the U.K. The companies that send out all those "pay us $500 for Backdoor Sluts 9" letters and ISPs cutting off service and stuff. I seem to see quite a few of those stories cropping up. The BT ruling (if I"m remembering it correctly) had more to do with preventing a monopoly (similar to the old Ma Bell situation in the U.S.) than anything else.
 
2012-03-16 10:33:20 AM

a9735z:
I dunno I've seen British ISPs that offer 20-30 Mbit (which is nothing to sneeze at).

Virgin (the cable company not their DSL branch) are hauling ass to get a sustained 100Mbp/s out and BT are lighting fibre like a crazy biatch. Google have been sniffing around and taking note of the miles of unlit municipal owned fibre installed during the 80's and making 'interesting' noises... that one made them shiat themselves.

The only problem is that the whole "lawsuitlarity" seems to be even worse in the U.K. The companies that send out all those "pay us $500 for Backdoor Sluts 9" letters and ISPs cutting off service and stuff.

Yeah... except the overwhelming response to those fraudulent demands was two words and the second is "off"... followed by the police coming through the companies front door with a battering ram.

Porn. Do not get between an Englishman and it. :)

I seem to see quite a few of those stories cropping up. The BT ruling (if I"m remembering it correctly) had more to do with preventing a monopoly (similar to the old Ma Bell situation in the U.S.) than anything else.

You are correct in that it was similar to the Ma Bell situation however rather than splitting them up so they could go on to reform and become the monster you guys are still dealing with we pretty much installed a regulator (OFFCOM) that has some teeth (not many but some) and ordered them to play nice or be replaced.
 
2012-03-16 10:35:55 AM

Vaneshi: Google have been sniffing around and taking note of the miles of unlit municipal owned fibre installed during the 80's and making 'interesting' noises... that one made them shiat themselves.


You should pray you don't get them as an ISP. Considering the public comments Eric Schmidt has made over the years I can only imagine what Google would do if they were actually your ISP and had all your personal information like name/address/income/etc.
 
2012-03-16 10:39:30 AM

StoneColdAtheist: At least downloaded music looks to be reasonably priced for what you get. I used to download Kindle books to read on my laptop, but in recent years the price has risen to about $10 a pop, for a product that has essentially zero marginal cost. Hell, at least with a paperback I have something tangible that has an inherent cost to produce and distribute.


Yeah, the price on downloadable music is really so low these days I don't see how you can really justify piracy. I paid a quarter last week for the new Coldplay album on Amazon's MP3 store (don't laugh, my wife likes them), plus I regularly find a lot of good stuff on Amazon for around $4 or $5. Even.if you are too impatient for deals they are several subscription services that let you download practically everything you would ever want to listen to for $10 a month.

I have to give the music industry some credit for at least working with retailers like Amazon to make music available DRM free and for low prices. They are not nearly as bad as the publishing industry, who are basically forcing Amazon to charge high prices on a lot of ebooks and requiring DRM that locks you on to one platform.
 
2012-03-16 10:43:25 AM

Vaneshi: LAN's used to be hotbeds of copying until a few of the larger ones killed SMB (the protocol Windows uses for it's shares) traffic... they will return to being hotbeds of piracy. If they don't I'd suggest you go snoop around your local market for the guy selling BluRay's stuffed full of ISO's, because he'll be back.


word.

I remember borrowing spectrum tapes from my friend and copying them on a tape to tape machine I had. Worked about 95% of the time. Then I remember my local `computer club`. What it was in reality was a place where everyone loaded up their favourite bitcopying software and made copies of everything they could in 2 hours on 3.5" floppies. Later I remember LAN parties where everyone set up a public folder on their drive and everyone copied as much as they could before they had to pack up. Later I remember the Internet where people didn`t have to take their computer anywhere to copy and napster and other things let you trawl a public folder on someone elses computer and copy as much as you could while you had access. Now we have the situation where you don`t have to have a particular person online to copy a particular bit of software and you can get a bit from this guy and a bit from that guy etc.

NOTHING HAS CHANGED

The only difference now is media companies sell us less blank media and we don`t have to move our computers and talk to other people.

Next? Maybe a huge virtual LAN with encrypted traffic that won`t let your ISP tell what you are doing. Make a virtual lan party inside the internet.
 
2012-03-16 10:46:27 AM

a9735z: Vaneshi: Google have been sniffing around and taking note of the miles of unlit municipal owned fibre installed during the 80's and making 'interesting' noises... that one made them shiat themselves.

You should pray you don't get them as an ISP. Considering the public comments Eric Schmidt has made over the years I can only imagine what Google would do if they were actually your ISP and had all your personal information like name/address/income/etc.


It would make for an interesting fight. Google's natural desire to harvest everything and make use of it vs the Data Protection Act. I doubt they'd be allowed to be a UK ISP and have their only European office in Luxemburg.

However in terms of making our current ISP's crap themselves and start innovating it would be a good thing; although I would have reservations about using Googles service for the reasons you stated.
 
2012-03-16 10:48:05 AM
Remember when the RIAA had one of their own download stuff and got busted for it? They said "yeah, but because the IP address was listed as ours, doesn't mean we can be held accountable."
 
2012-03-16 10:48:53 AM
Six proxies, assholes. Six.
 
2012-03-16 10:55:59 AM

Mad_Radhu: StoneColdAtheist: At least downloaded music looks to be reasonably priced for what you get.

Yeah, the price on downloadable music is really so low these days I don't see how you can really justify piracy. I paid a quarter last week for the new Coldplay album on Amazon's MP3 store (don't laugh, my wife likes them), plus I regularly find a lot of good stuff on Amazon for around $4 or $5. Even.if you are too impatient for deals they are several subscription services that let you download practically everything you would ever want to listen to for $10 a month.


I would gladly pay Amazon another $10 a month (on top of the $8/mo for Prime) to just read books. I pay $16/mo to Netflix and watch 1 or 2 movies a week and feel I'm getting a pretty fair deal (especially after paying $75/mo for 900 channels of garbage on DirectTV).
 
2012-03-16 10:59:53 AM

scarmig: Six proxies, assholes. Six.


Between your computer and your ISP's edge device? Man the latency must suck!
 
2012-03-16 11:03:01 AM

Carth: a9735z: Carth: Would it work if you connect through a VPN?

As long as it's encrypted (which they almost always are) and you know what's at the other end, then no they shouldn't be able to do deep packet inspection. It all depends on how secure your VPN is and how much you trust them.

If that is the case the whole program seems like a waste of time. If people can get around it with a $9 a month VPN or usenet subscription why waste time implementing it?


For a lot of the 'principled' thieves its the act of not paying money for the content they don't think is worth anything that is the issue, even a cost of 9$ is higher then the zero money they think they are entitled to spend on content they think is unfit but will consume any ways. Besides, that 9$ has to come from somewhere like a credit card which is a true anchor tying you to the real world all the better and opening you up for anyone looking to really sink your boat.

If pirates really wanted to 'stick it to the RIAA' they'd do the right thing and just not consume their content at all.
 
2012-03-16 11:11:03 AM

BumpInTheNight:

For a lot of the 'principled' thieves its the act of not paying money for the content they don't think is worth anything that is the issue, even a cost of 9$ is higher then the zero money they think they are entitled to spend on content they think is unfit but will consume any ways. Besides, that 9$ has to come from somewhere like a credit card which is a true anchor tying you to the real world all the better and opening you up for anyone looking to really sink your boat.

If pirates really wanted to 'stick it to the RIAA' they'd do the right thing and just not consume their content at all.


Even if they use the line of hey you are paying for this service there are legitament items that are available from those services. The job of the ISP is to find out inside the https packet if it was a legitament or not file. If you use an index service that isn't https then you are shiat up a creek since they know what you are looking for then it just takes a bit of work to matchup your bandwidth to that which you were looking at.
 
2012-03-16 11:11:25 AM
It should be easy for the RIAA to provide an independent study showing that music downloading hurts their revenues. Right? Just one independent study? Should be easy. Right?
 
2012-03-16 11:13:04 AM

BumpInTheNight: Besides, that 9$ has to come from somewhere like a credit card which is a true anchor tying you to the real world all the better and opening you up for anyone looking to really sink your boat.


Yea no. There are so many ways to get around that scenario anonymously it's laughable.

BumpInTheNight: If pirates really wanted to 'stick it to the RIAA' they'd do the right thing and just not consume their content at all.


Because that will ever happen. Good luck
 
2012-03-16 11:13:43 AM

tedbundee: "If copyright infringing activity continues still, the ISP then reserves the right to throttle Web access speeds, or cut off a subscriber's Internet access altogether, at least until that user..."

...switches ISP.


This. What's to stop me from swapping ISPs back and forth every 90 days or so? With all the discounts and promos they offer for "new" customers, I'd probably save money to boot. I really, really doubt they'd maintain records of "bandwidth hogs"; I'd imagine they just close out the records of a particular customer when he cancels.

/I'd be calling my ISP to cancel the day I got the first letter
//that'd be a fun chat with their "retention specialist"
 
2012-03-16 11:15:57 AM
ISPs don't want to be held legally accountable for their customer's actions. Unless the government started targeting ISPs directly, there's no need for doing this.
 
2012-03-16 11:16:46 AM

MacWizard: GreenAdder: Weaver95: so why go through a major record label at all? you can bypass most of their bullshiat and sell direct to consumers now.

And then the RIAA, BMI, or ASCAP decides you're cutting into their profit margin. Suddenly they "suspect" you of piracy and your site becomes inaccessible.

The question is how they (both the ISPs and the general public) can tell the difference between someone downloading legal music (like that of an independent band freely offering their tunes) and someone downloading illegal (RIAA) music?

A second one is why they are going after the downloaders and not the sites providing the "illegal" music? If they can see who is downloading something, they can certainly see the other end of the transfer.


they use honeypots that they own and operate. because they're not a government agency they CAN illegally entrap with bait.
 
2012-03-16 11:20:18 AM

BumpInTheNight: Besides, that 9$ has to come from somewhere like a credit card which is a true anchor tying you to the real world all the better and opening you up for anyone looking to really sink your boat.

If pirates really wanted to 'stick it to the RIAA' they'd do the right thing and just not consume their content at all.


Why not pay for the VPN with a Visa giftcard or Bitcoins?
 
2012-03-16 11:20:29 AM

I Like Bread: RookStar: So....ripping songs from youtube vids is okay then, right?

/cause it's not a torrent

Yep. FTP, direct download sites and newsgroups are also kosher.


having a digital copy on your computer that can be accessed from the internet for any reason is piracy, that's how they prove you're a pirate.
 
2012-03-16 11:21:09 AM

StoneColdAtheist: Mad_Radhu: StoneColdAtheist: At least downloaded music looks to be reasonably priced for what you get.

Yeah, the price on downloadable music is really so low these days I don't see how you can really justify piracy. I paid a quarter last week for the new Coldplay album on Amazon's MP3 store (don't laugh, my wife likes them), plus I regularly find a lot of good stuff on Amazon for around $4 or $5. Even.if you are too impatient for deals they are several subscription services that let you download practically everything you would ever want to listen to for $10 a month.

I would gladly pay Amazon another $10 a month (on top of the $8/mo for Prime) to just read books. I pay $16/mo to Netflix and watch 1 or 2 movies a week and feel I'm getting a pretty fair deal (especially after paying $75/mo for 900 channels of garbage on DirectTV).


They actually do have a Kindle Lending Library service as part of Amazon Prime if you are using an actual Kindle for reading. Unfortunately, most of the publishers are being little biatches and not supporting the service, so the selection is pretty poor. There are a few good things to read, however, like the Hunger Games trilogy and nonfiction books by Michael Lewis (Moneyball, the Big Short) and Mary Roach (Bonk: The Curious Science of Human Coupling). The other downside is that they give you just one book a month to lend out, so if you are a fast reader it won't be ideal.
 
2012-03-16 11:21:39 AM
This is why I don't buy ANY major label releases. fark these greedy corporate cocksuckers. Most of the artists I listen to are independent or their labels are independent. Bandcamp is one of the greatest things to emerge lately. Money goes directly to the ARTIST and not some shiatty label. Why ANYONE sign to a major in 2012 is beyond me. With the internet today and social media you absolutely do not need a label.
 
2012-03-16 11:22:47 AM
Craig_Kreist

..... we're concerned about bands. And if you don't buy the music from the band (at the show if you want the most money to go to them), and you do that consistently, you may be hurting that band's ability to put out another effort.....

and
inkblot:
People like you want to turn artists into bums, who.....



Guess how we know that you have no clue how economics really work
A quick TED talk lesson for you both
 
2012-03-16 11:24:05 AM

TheOmni: gaslight: "Suspected," eh. So, customer has a contract with the ISP, a third party says to the ISP, "please degrade that customer's service because we say so."

Um, isn't there enough work for lawyers?

I believe their take on it is that "illegally downloading" such things is a violation of their Terms of Service which means they'll claim you violated the contract first allowing them to take punitive measures. I would like to see how it turns out in court though.



I took his comment more to mean that there would be a lot of challenges to the validity of the claims in the first place, not just that people would fight the validity of the TOS. Basically, more like "Hey, I am not illegally DL'ing anything" instead of "You can't do this to me."


Three Crooked Squirrels: This thread is full of "waaaahh fascist!" Their methods are quite heavy handed, but the bottom line is that people keep stealing their shiat, and technology has made it very easy to do. Stop stealing their shiat. Pay for it if you like it. And if you don't like it, like apparently Winkologist hasn't in 14 years, don't download it. Its a pretty shiatty excuse to say "The music hasn't been good since 1998, so I decided to steal it rather than pay for it. Sure it sucked, but I just had to have it. But you better be damn sure I wasn't going to pay for it!"



Movie industry profits are up significantly year over year, not down.

Yes people are downloading things, but that doesn't mean that it costs the media industry any sales, nor does it mean that downloaders buy less media. Think of it this way... more and more media is pushed out to the public every year (hundreds of films used to be produced each year just a few decades ago and now it's tens of thousands per year), but people don't magically have more money to spend just because there is more on the market to buy. In fact, the wealth and wages of the average American have been dropping like a rock for decades, even as media industry profits overall have been soaring and now people have new options like buying music directly from artist websites over the internet (which is the only way I've bought music for a few years now).

This disinformation campaign is couched in effective marketing which SOUNDS like it should be true if you don't examine the claims.... but it's still actually just complete bullshiat.
 
2012-03-16 11:26:08 AM

a9735z: BumpInTheNight: Besides, that 9$ has to come from somewhere like a credit card which is a true anchor tying you to the real world all the better and opening you up for anyone looking to really sink your boat.

Yea no. There are so many ways to get around that scenario anonymously it's laughable.

BumpInTheNight: If pirates really wanted to 'stick it to the RIAA' they'd do the right thing and just not consume their content at all.

Because that will ever happen. Good luck


The prepaid cards and all that are an easy way to skirt that tie down just then you're left with another megaupload situation where a lot of people are paying into a service that's thinly veiled at being a copyright avoidance mechanism at best and they get taken down. Sure the rinse/repeat move onto the next pay-to-consume service but each time you do that you're opening yourself up to lots of logs of your home connection talking to a seed box or account devoted to copying content. Its a slippery slope that's all for the user, just one service that bends and provides their userbase's info and everyone on board is sunk.

and yah, the sense of entitlement among pirates is stifling "you can't stop me from watching your bad shows, shiatty movies and terrible bands, nya nya!".

Meanwhile I'm just surprised that American ISPs haven't been doing that sort of thing all along, here in Canada it was quite common to hear about a friend getting cut off by Rogers or Bell because they were downloading content that those two companies coincidentally offer through their subscription service. Perhaps that's the difference though in that they already had a direct incentive.
 
2012-03-16 11:27:37 AM

BumpInTheNight: a9735z: BumpInTheNight: Besides, that 9$ has to come from somewhere like a credit card which is a true anchor tying you to the real world all the better and opening you up for anyone looking to really sink your boat.

Yea no. There are so many ways to get around that scenario anonymously it's laughable.

BumpInTheNight: If pirates really wanted to 'stick it to the RIAA' they'd do the right thing and just not consume their content at all.

Because that will ever happen. Good luck

The prepaid cards and all that are an easy way to skirt that tie down just then you're left with another megaupload situation where a lot of people are paying into a service that's thinly veiled at being a copyright avoidance mechanism at best and they get taken down. Sure the rinse/repeat move onto the next pay-to-consume service but each time you do that you're opening yourself up to lots of logs of your home connection talking to a seed box or account devoted to copying content. Its a slippery slope that's all for the user, just one service that bends and provides their userbase's info and everyone on board is sunk.

and yah, the sense of entitlement among pirates is stifling "you can't stop me from watching your bad shows, shiatty movies and terrible bands, nya nya!".

Meanwhile I'm just surprised that American ISPs haven't been doing that sort of thing all along, here in Canada it was quite common to hear about a friend getting cut off by Rogers or Bell because they were downloading content that those two companies coincidentally offer through their subscription service. Perhaps that's the difference though in that they already had a direct incentive.


Ahh ok. I wasn't sure how it would work I'm not living in America. How has usenet survived this long? It seems like it exists only to host pirated content and has been around for decades.
 
kab
2012-03-16 11:32:54 AM

keepitcherry: This is why I don't buy ANY major label releases. fark these greedy corporate cocksuckers. Most of the artists I listen to are independent or their labels are independent. Bandcamp is one of the greatest things to emerge lately. Money goes directly to the ARTIST and not some shiatty label. Why ANYONE sign to a major in 2012 is beyond me. With the internet today and social media you absolutely do not need a label.


Newsflash 1: labels exist at this point because they provide up-front money that can be used for recording, advertising, and touring costs. Yes, it's a system that is exploited beyond belief to the benefit of the label and not the band. But if you don't think that there are very real expenses associated with the medium, you're simply misinformed.

Newsflash 2: folks who pirate music don't care whether the band is signed or not.

More at 11.
 
2012-03-16 11:33:46 AM
Boy my neighbors with crap encrypted wifi are going to be pissed when they get warnings & bandwidth goes to nothing. Since I moved to my new area there are 12 in range of my boosted connection. I have 7 that I have already logged the password. Keep punishing the innocent, let them know you mean business. You know, instead of improving your model of business and marketing to the new age.
 
2012-03-16 11:35:36 AM

Carth: Ahh ok. I wasn't sure how it would work I'm not living in America. How has usenet survived this long? It seems like it exists only to host pirated content and has been around for decades.


Ever hear of the best way to survive a bear attack? Be 'not the slowest guy'. Its more annoying for the copyright goons to go after the repurposed usenet then it is to go after bit torrent users so for now they're the safer harbor. Since bit torrent users are so plentiful and its so easy to establish a new site devoted to it, there's high chances that a usenet service won't get hit for quite some time, unless the the owner of that service does something incredibly stupid like megaupload such as getting into other illegal activities and getting in hot water on multiple fronts, one of which stuck to its owners and they were taken down.
 
2012-03-16 11:41:46 AM

BumpInTheNight: a9735z: BumpInTheNight: Besides, that 9$ has to come from somewhere like a credit card which is a true anchor tying you to the real world all the better and opening you up for anyone looking to really sink your boat.

Yea no. There are so many ways to get around that scenario anonymously it's laughable.

BumpInTheNight: If pirates really wanted to 'stick it to the RIAA' they'd do the right thing and just not consume their content at all.

Because that will ever happen. Good luck

The prepaid cards and all that are an easy way to skirt that tie down just then you're left with another megaupload situation where a lot of people are paying into a service that's thinly veiled at being a copyright avoidance mechanism at best and they get taken down. Sure the rinse/repeat move onto the next pay-to-consume service but each time you do that you're opening yourself up to lots of logs of your home connection talking to a seed box or account devoted to copying content. Its a slippery slope that's all for the user, just one service that bends and provides their userbase's info and everyone on board is sunk.

and yah, the sense of entitlement among pirates is stifling "you can't stop me from watching your bad shows, shiatty movies and terrible bands, nya nya!".

Meanwhile I'm just surprised that American ISPs haven't been doing that sort of thing all along, here in Canada it was quite common to hear about a friend getting cut off by Rogers or Bell because they were downloading content that those two companies coincidentally offer through their subscription service. Perhaps that's the difference though in that they already had a direct incentive.


As a Canadian your story is the first I've heard of anyone being cut off by their ISP for doing that looks like file sharing and I know people who have used pretty much every major ISP in Canada.
 
2012-03-16 11:45:42 AM

kab: keepitcherry: This is why I don't buy ANY major label releases. fark these greedy corporate cocksuckers. Most of the artists I listen to are independent or their labels are independent. Bandcamp is one of the greatest things to emerge lately. Money goes directly to the ARTIST and not some shiatty label. Why ANYONE sign to a major in 2012 is beyond me. With the internet today and social media you absolutely do not need a label.

Newsflash 1: labels exist at this point because they provide up-front money that can be used for recording, advertising, and touring costs. Yes, it's a system that is exploited beyond belief to the benefit of the label and not the band. But if you don't think that there are very real expenses associated with the medium, you're simply misinformed.

Newsflash 2: folks who pirate music don't care whether the band is signed or not.

More at 11.


Of course there are very real expenses associated with the medium. You're misinformed if you think it really costs a lot of money to get a professional recording without a million dollar studio. I am a producer, I have my own home studio. I have roughly $10,000 worth of equipment, and the shiat I put out sounds just as good as any big studio. Yes it costs money to tour but thats why you get a beat up van and drive yourself. Advertising can be done yourself also via Social Media. Do you only listen to mainstream artists or something? I have countless friends making a living off of music WITHOUT a label.
 
2012-03-16 11:46:46 AM
There is no limit to the creative ways people will craft the "she was asking for it" defense when it comes to piracy. I think we've found our alternative energy source.
 
2012-03-16 11:50:20 AM

change1211: As a Canadian your story is the first I've heard of anyone being cut off by their ISP for doing that looks like file sharing and I know people who have used pretty much every major ISP in Canada.


Really? I must just have really dumb friends :P Actually yah that's probably the main reason, even after I teach them some ways to avoid being such a dumb ass about it they still go grab fresh releases off of public sites like piratebay without even so much as peerblock in place. The first case of it was years back, I remember the friend was cut off for repeatedly downloading stargate episodes and I'm pretty sure rogers only cared because they were also showing those same episodes.
 
2012-03-16 11:55:47 AM

BumpInTheNight: and yah, the sense of entitlement among pirates is stifling "you can't stop me from watching your bad shows, shiatty movies and terrible bands, nya nya!".


The problem is we lump everyone together rightly or wrongly. There is an ever growing number of people turning to copyright infringement (in part or in whole) for their entertainment because whilst the industry is providing them with content they want (otherwise why bother ripping it off) except there is no mechanism to get it in a desired format at a desired time in exchange for money.

I'm not ignoring the fact that there are just some people who will never pay nor am I ignoring the digital kelptomaniacs who must have a copy of everything... but they really are the minority. But just because a movie sucked doesn't mean someone didn't enjoy it somewhere and it should be available for purchase digitally.
 
2012-03-16 12:00:39 PM

BumpInTheNight: change1211: As a Canadian your story is the first I've heard of anyone being cut off by their ISP for doing that looks like file sharing and I know people who have used pretty much every major ISP in Canada.

Really? I must just have really dumb friends :P Actually yah that's probably the main reason, even after I teach them some ways to avoid being such a dumb ass about it they still go grab fresh releases off of public sites like piratebay without even so much as peerblock in place. The first case of it was years back, I remember the friend was cut off for repeatedly downloading stargate episodes and I'm pretty sure rogers only cared because they were also showing those same episodes.


I doubt any of my friends took any measures to hide any of their traffic, it sounds like Rogers is just a bad ISP.
 
2012-03-16 12:08:14 PM

change1211: I doubt any of my friends took any measures to hide any of their traffic, it sounds like Rogers is just a bad ISP.


Its true that anyone who has access to alternatives have been jumping ship in droves. Teksavvy for the win, far more reasonable prices and practices.
 
2012-03-16 12:08:38 PM

paygun: There is no limit to the creative ways people will craft the "she was asking for it" defense when it comes to piracy. I think we've found our alternative energy source.


Or that it doesn't equal theft, therefore it's somehow acceptable.

Unfortunately for that line of "logic", copyright law is still law and the Constitution mentions the protection of creative works as one of the main roles of Congress. That a programmer or musician falls under the definition of "authors and inventors" is an easy concept to sell to a judge.
 
2012-03-16 12:25:18 PM

BumpInTheNight: change1211: I doubt any of my friends took any measures to hide any of their traffic, it sounds like Rogers is just a bad ISP.

Its true that anyone who has access to alternatives have been jumping ship in droves. Teksavvy for the win, far more reasonable prices and practices.


I had a friend who worked Tech Support for Teksavvy for a while, they seem pretty good. I'll be sticking with Telus for the time being, I've had no problems with them and have no reason to switch.
 
2012-03-16 12:39:46 PM
fluffy2097:
//How does this effect ISP's common carrier status?
//Since they now are picking and choosing what goes through their tubes aren't ISP's now the liable ones for any infringement?


Came for this. If they're actively monitoring and selectively limiting what users are pulling down, how can they not be held accountable for allowing through other illegal content, such as kiddie porn and the like?
 
2012-03-16 12:52:43 PM

Guntram Shatterhand: Skyfrog: The RIAA is full of crap, this is just propaganda to try and scare people.

Well, it's working. I've already started boycotting their products, and now I see very little reason to stop boycotting.


There isn't anything new worth listening to coming out of any of the member-labels anyway. Creativity was stifled by major publishing long ago. The only good music being made today comes from anywhere but major labels.

That's the real problem they're wanting to destroy: independent publishing and distribution. They want control of the 'tubes so they can stop others from self-publishing. They want only RIAA-sanctioned music to be available, only through RIAA-approved channels, and they want subscription to be mandatory.
 
2012-03-16 01:08:23 PM
I miss FileSonic...
 
2012-03-16 01:13:33 PM
I download illegal copies of TV shows and movies.

What do I download and why do I do it?

Lets see, the last thing I torrented was the latest episode of Face Off (the Syfylis show about movie makeup). Why did I pirate it? Because it came on at the same time as the new episodes of South Park and Ugly Americans. I wanted to watch those instead, but I don't want to wait a week for it to rerun when I can get it the next morning off a torrent site.

What about the last movie I downloaded? That would be John Carter of Mars. I saw it in the theater, in 3D. I also go to conventions and wanted references of some of the costumes and props so I could start building replicas to take to my con. The stuff I wanted wasn't available in promo art, and the DVD won't be out in time to get anything done in time. So I downloaded a copy so I could pull screenshots off it for my references.

What was the last song I downloaded without buying? Honestly I don't recall, but I liked it so I went on iTunes and bought it so I could have it on my iphone.

What was the last piece of software I downloaded? That would be a piece of 3D modelling software. If you've ever done that sort of work, you know 30 days is simply not enough time to really get comfortable with what a good suite is capable of. After a few months of using it and getting good at it, I decided it was a good product and bought it because I want them to keep updating it.

What am I currently looking to pirate? Total Drama: Revenge of the Island. It airs stateside this summer, but its already airing in Canada in English. Its already available for streaming every episode off the company's website, but only if you're in Canada. It is not available on DVD, it is not available for me to watch normally at all, but the lag time between the initial showing (in English) in Canada and the first showing here is nearly 6 months. Will I watch it again when it airs here? Yes, yes I will. Does that mean I'm going to twiddle my thumbs for 6 months because Cartoon Network is dragging it's feet? No, I like the show, its available, I'm going to watch it.

So bottom line? Yes, I pirate copyrighted material on a regular basis. And you know what, its stuff I could have watched for free if the TV station hadn't decided to put it up against something else I wanted to watch more and then not rerun it at a convenient time. Its stuff I already paid to see, and will likely pay for again in the future, but that I want access to right now. Or, its stuff that I want that the companies flat out refuse to offer.

Know what else? I have a Netflix subscription, both streaming and DVD. The amount of video I pirate went *WAY* down after I got that. Why pirate something when I can stream it on demand from Netflix? Or that I can drop in my queue and have it in my mailbox in a day or two (which depending on torrent seeders can be FASTER than pirating it).

If the companies would give me a way to get the material I want, when I want it, I would be happy to pay for it. But they don't. They tell me that I have to wait 6 months to watch a movie at home that I would happily buy on DVD the same day as seeing it in the theater if it was good. They tell me I can't watch a TV show because even though its already made and the deals for airing in my region are already finalized, they just don't want to air it yet because they think they'll get better ratings later on in the year. They tell me I have to shell out hundreds of dollars up front for a piece of software that may be completely unsuitable for my needs and their hobbled trial version disables what you actually need to use to find out. Or that the song I can hear on the radio for free I can't listen to for free before I decide to buy it to put in my own collection.

I will happily pay for things I like, if these companies would just freaking let me have them. But they don't. So I pirate them instead.
 
2012-03-16 01:14:48 PM
1. Create software to make false positives
2. Deploy software widely

At this point it becomes a red queen game of ever increasing costs to the providers for accurate detection.
 
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