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(MLive.com)   GOP in 2009: "Obama's auto industry bailouts are socialism" GOP in 2010: "Obama's auto industry bailouts are a huge failure" GOP in 2012: "Why is Obama taking credit for bailing out the auto industry?"   (mlive.com) divider line 224
    More: Obvious, Michigan Republican Party, auto bailouts, obama, GOP, automakers, Automotive News, Community Rules, Vice President Joe Biden  
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3845 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Mar 2012 at 8:47 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-17 11:14:20 AM
Obama in 2008: "Hope and Change"

Obama in 2012: "Change is hard"
 
2012-03-17 11:15:57 AM

dforkus: On unemployment for 2 years, then gets a job at a bailed out automaker, leaning Romney..

www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012202260524 (new window)


Wow the guy in that article/video is a complete idiot. It's a wonder he even got the job he has.
If it weren't for Obama and the bailout that guy would be living on the street or sponging off
either his or his wife's parents. At the time the core of the Republican party was all set to let
the auto companies fail completely. Yes they hated the Unions that much that they assuredly would
have let the economy tank into a depression. As has been noted before having 2-3 million
jobs being eliminated almost overnight would have caused the downturn to turn into a full blown depression.
That 2-3 million jobs is my best guess estimate of auto workers and suppliers jobs lost. It does not take into effect
how many ancillary jobs in the other sectors would be lost because of it. It may be triple that when that is taken into
effect.

Why do Republicans hate America?
 
2012-03-17 11:16:42 AM

sprawl15: Answer the farking question. What are the donations used for?


Have we moved on from

sprawl15: There's a fundamental flaw in your argument: you're only looking at campaign donations


You have slid on from that point to an unanswerable question. No one is going to perfectly answer where all "corporate" funds are being used for, and no one is going to answer were all "Jewish" funds are being used for. (quotes seriously used to highlight how dumb the conflations are)

Frankly, your point does a teriffic job of highlighting *exactly* my point on why these conflations are stupid, and why people making a point on corporate money are making this error.
 
2012-03-17 11:17:34 AM
winterwhile:
actually they still have 50B to pay back, so your p&l statement is Farkin wrong

Southwest Airlines has shareholders too, no?
 
2012-03-17 11:22:04 AM

Party Boy: You have slid on from that point to an unanswerable question. No one is going to perfectly answer where all "corporate" funds are being used for, and no one is going to answer were all "Jewish" funds are being used for. (quotes seriously used to highlight how dumb the conflations are)


I'm honestly stunned by your inability to answer a simple question. Do you really not know that donating to political parties is donating to that party's election campaigns? Do you not realize that there are legal limitations on what donations can be used for?

Party Boy: Frankly, your point does a teriffic job of highlighting *exactly* my point on why these conflations are stupid


The only person conflating private donations to a party with corporate lobbyists writing their own regulations is you, hoss.
 
2012-03-17 11:24:12 AM

sprawl15: I'm honestly stunned by your inability to answer a simple question. Do you really not know that donating to political parties is donating to that party's election campaigns? Do you not realize that there are legal limitations on what donations can be used for?


Because its a bullshiat question. Haim Saiban himself has made donations beyond this context.

You farked up, here.

sprawl15: There's a fundamental flaw in your argument: you're only looking at campaign donations
 
2012-03-17 11:24:50 AM

Notabunny: So, the take-home lesson here is that socialism is more profitable than capitalism?


It is for the NFL.
 
2012-03-17 11:24:57 AM

Mugato: Has the GOP done anything that wasn't hypocritical /embarrassing/ psychotic/ perverted in like the last decade? And I ask this as a former republican.


^ this, really. I think there's a lot in the core conservative/republican platform which could be sensible, but their asinine abandonment of that for things which are hateful and hypocritical sickens me.
 
2012-03-17 11:26:10 AM
i112.photobucket.com
 
2012-03-17 11:26:43 AM

Raharu: winterwhile: MisterRonbo: winterwhile: born_yesterday: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Parthenogenetic: I am a middle class white Christian man living in the Midwest who works in the auto industry. I witnessed this total failure of a bailout firsthand.

That...that was beautiful sir.

Thanks for that post, P.

those who work at Southwest airlines, that grew because Air Florida and Eastern went under

Have something to say to you......

we make a P&L statement work, your Government Motors has yet to do that

General Motors showed a net profit if $7.6 billion last year.

Facts, how do they work?

actually they still have 50B to pay back, so your p&l statement is Farkin wrong

[Non-Freeper Citation Needed]


It's basic accounting! If you have a loan, you have to offset the entire loan amount, much like regular citizens with car loans and mortgages! If you only make $50,000 a year, but you have a $300,000 mortgage, obviously you lost $250,000 that year.
 
2012-03-17 11:30:31 AM

qorkfiend: Raharu: winterwhile: MisterRonbo: winterwhile: born_yesterday: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Parthenogenetic: I am a middle class white Christian man living in the Midwest who works in the auto industry. I witnessed this total failure of a bailout firsthand.

That...that was beautiful sir.

Thanks for that post, P.

those who work at Southwest airlines, that grew because Air Florida and Eastern went under

Have something to say to you......

we make a P&L statement work, your Government Motors has yet to do that

General Motors showed a net profit if $7.6 billion last year.

Facts, how do they work?

actually they still have 50B to pay back, so your p&l statement is Farkin wrong

[Non-Freeper Citation Needed]

It's basic accounting! If you have a loan, you have to offset the entire loan amount, much like regular citizens with car loans and mortgages! If you only make $50,000 a year, but you have a $300,000 mortgage, obviously you lost $250,000 that year.


if you post losses but don't have debt, are you still doing well in business?
 
2012-03-17 11:31:08 AM

Party Boy: Mugato: They're like James Bond villains only not as cool and with severe sexual issues disguised as some kind of religious piety.

I imagine this whole trend from the southern strategy to Lee Atwater, to the populism of today and then I tuen around and notice while the left has been making commentary on this, they've stared into the abyss.


Mugato: both parties are slaves to their corporate masters

Well, here's where the butthurt starts. Ready? I simply dislike this argument. its intellectually lazy. First, theres a buffet of motives - and this whole "corporate" thing ignores the ideological. Second, you have to connect specific people to specific actions in a specific context.

If you want to have a side discussion on this, cool. If not, I'm truncating myself on here - painfully.


Can I rent you to explain this to my relatives?

/Their religion - Reagan > Rand > Current GOP hopeful > Jesus
 
2012-03-17 11:32:19 AM

Party Boy: Because its a bullshiat question. Haim Saiban himself has made donations beyond this context.


Every bit of 'evidence' you provided falls into that context. If you'd like to talk about whatever rambling ideas are floating through your head, you have to let me know first.

Then again, don't let me know, because it still absolutely fails to be relevant. Jewish donations have nothing to do with Boeing promising to keep their Kansas plant open if only Congress chooses them for KC-X. Jewish donations have nothing to do with industry lobbyists writing their own regulations. Jewish donations have nothing to do with manipulation of contracting law via information/technical asymmetry. Jewish donations have nothing to do with the RIAA/MPAA pushing extremely draconian copyright enforcement. Jewish donations have nothing to do with the health insurance industry directly manipulating the PPACA. Even if you were absolutely right about your little staked out plot of stupid, it would still be completely irrelevant since nobody's farking talking about their donations but you. They could be evil lizard people donating in the most sinister way possible, and it still wouldn't have shiatall to do with lobbying and the overly corporate culture in Congress.
 
2012-03-17 11:35:42 AM

mrlewish: Seems like the GOP sees 1984 as an instruction manual.

"The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them....To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies - all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth"

[www.jim3dlong.com image 500x670]


Karl Rove admitted this, point blank, in an interview. He said that by the time the Democrats could respond to one thing they put out, they were onto the next two things. Facts didn't matter, only perception.
 
2012-03-17 11:37:11 AM

markie_farkie: GOP before BP disaster: "Obama's killing the oil industry with too much regulation and oversight"

GOP immediately after BP disaster: "Obama isn't spending enough time regulating the oil industry, look what happened!!"


Correction: "Why is it taking Obama so long to fix the leak!" The GOP would never think regulation is a viable way of preventing disasters.
 
2012-03-17 11:43:02 AM

mrlewish: Seems like the GOP sees 1984 as an instruction manual.

....with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth"


This is the part the GOP seems most skilled at.
 
2012-03-17 11:44:25 AM

digistil: Can I rent you to explain this to my relatives?


Borrow at will.


Sometimes you meet someone married to a paradigm and is willing to fight you for years. Finally, when the evidence mounts over time, the shiatty paradigm will eventually break. Sometimes it takes years.

sprawl15: Boeing promising to keep their Kansas plant open if only Congress chooses them for KC-X


Ok, now we are getting somewhere. This can be an effort to

Party Boy: connect specific people to specific actions in a specific context.

However, you are not going to be able to make this a point on all corporations. This would be much like in how you cannot look at Sheldon Adelson or Eric Cantor, or Haim Sabam as all Jews.

See?
 
2012-03-17 11:50:30 AM

Without Fail: Mugato: They're like James Bond villains only not as cool and with severe sexual issues disguised as some kind of religious piety.

I'm pretty sure it is largely insecurity.

Those who call the GOP 'big dicks' have never seen them naked?

/I have never taken a poll.


I haven't either

NTTAWWT
 
2012-03-17 11:51:15 AM

Party Boy: Ok, now we are getting somewhere.


Why am I not surprised to see you need the same point posted to you multiple times before you actually read it?

Party Boy: However, you are not going to be able to make this a point on all corporations.


Of course you can, since the problem is a systemic one rather than a problem with a specific corporation. Something as extreme as elimination of all donations does nothing to change this, because the method of collaboration exists outside of it...that's why your babbling about donations is so totally farking stupid. The system needs to change to prevent this kind of action from occurring, and until and unless it changes corporations will always use every loophole and trick they can - they'd be stupid not to.

Party Boy: This would be much like in how you cannot look at Sheldon Adelson or Eric Cantor, or Haim Sabam as all Jews.


Who the fark is doing this? Seriously, what voice in your head is telling you that anyone gives half a shiat about how much and to whom Jews donate? You're really, really beating the shiat out of that strawman.
 
2012-03-17 11:51:39 AM

Kurmudgeon: Hypocrisy, it's either wing's bread and butter.


Fxd
 
2012-03-17 11:54:35 AM
shotimesports.com
 
2012-03-17 11:59:01 AM
God, I just LOVE the GOP's stance on the auto-industry bailout. No matter how they spin it, each time they try you can almost feel more votes going to Obama in November. Thanks for handing Obama the industrial Midwest! If they were smart, they'd just STFU about it altogether, since they don't have a leg to stand on. But just like Republicans, they'll keep farking that chicken all the way to November.

Take this, all their bullshiat on women's issues, the religious nonsense and you'd almost think they were intentionally sabotaging themselves. "We're going to make ourselves unappealing to everyone but old, wjote. male racists! We can't lose!"

Did someone convince these assholes Mississipi is worth 300 electoral votes this year?
 
2012-03-17 12:00:40 PM

mrlewish: Seems like the GOP sees 1984 as an instruction manual.

"The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them....To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies - all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth"

[www.jim3dlong.com image 500x670]


The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''
 
2012-03-17 12:03:48 PM

markie_farkie: GOP before BP disaster: "Obama's killing the oil industry with too much regulation and oversight"

GOP immediately after BP disaster: "Obama isn't spending enough time regulating the oil industry, look what happened!!"


In a full 360, the new talking point is. "Obamas regulations in the Gulf are causing the high gas prices."
 
2012-03-17 12:06:24 PM

eraser8: MisterRonbo: General Motors showed a net profit if $7.6 billion last year.

Facts, how do they work?

The better the US does, the more depressed Republicans seem to get.

Why, Republicans? Why do you hate America?


The GOP seems to have bet strongly against the American economy. This is definitely a wise move, because we know the American economy has never recovered.
 
2012-03-17 12:06:25 PM

sprawl15: Of course you can


When you make this problem, you run into a host of issues.

Lets make it another turn. This time on a distasteful use of your methodology on elected officials and groups lobbying them to make a disturbing conflation thats quite bigoted
Eric Cantor: the new Republican majority will serve as a check on the Administration....the Republican majority understands the special relationship between Israel and the United States

Cantor: we need to make sure that this president is also going to stand by Israel and not allow his administration to somehow speak contrary to what our ally thinks is in its best interest."

Gabrielle Giffords: "This is "an opportunity to send someone to Congress who's going to work for Israel,

Congressmen traveling to Israel, courtesy of AIPAC

junkets to Israel, paid for by the American Israel Education Foundation

The Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) and the Center for Security Policy (CSP). And just as was the case two decades ago, dozens of their members have ascended to powerful government posts, where their advocacy in support of the same agenda continues, abetted by the out-of-government adjuncts from which they came. Industrious and persistent, they've managed to weave a number of issues--support for national missile defense, opposition to arms control treaties, championing of wasteful weapons systems, arms aid to Turkey and American unilateralism in general--into a hard line, with support for the Israeli right at its core.
Using this methodology, how would you like what you would say here?

its ugly and intellectually lazy to make conflations. You cannot take these incidents and make a claim about the whole.
 
2012-03-17 12:10:04 PM
Next thing you know, 0bama will be taking credit for killing Bin Laden.
 
2012-03-17 12:16:05 PM

Party Boy: When you make this problem, you run into a host of issues.


No. No you do not.

You're beating a strawman, yet again.

Party Boy: This time on a distasteful use of your methodology


Maybe you should learn what the methodology is before rambling about it. You really have no idea, do you?

Party Boy: its ugly and intellectually lazy to make conflations.


What conflations? "The system has problems" isn't conflating anything. You're picking a specific subset, saying that the systemic problems apply to them (when the systemic problems have nothing to do with individual action, that's why they're systemic), then drawing a false parallel to bigotry because you chose a subset that historically often has bigotry applied to it. It's classical begging of the question and pandering. And when you're called out on it, you don't address or consider anything brought to you, you just ramble farther down your own rabbit hole. It's pathetic.

Did you forget to log in as Death to New Rome or something?
 
2012-03-17 12:17:50 PM

sprawl15: No. No you do not.


So, you are going to take a Boeing example (and one we did not flesh out) to speak for all corporations

You probably cant take that example to speak for all of boeing.
 
2012-03-17 12:18:14 PM

mat catastrophe: With any luck, we are witnessing the death of America's right-wing party which will leave us with America's center-right party and another player TBA.


The demise isn't going to be pretty. They wont die quietly and they'll take some good people down with them. But you're right.
 
2012-03-17 12:18:48 PM
Is there a single republican alive who's not a lying sack of shiat? It seems to be the only pillar of the GOP's schizophrenic platform.
 
2012-03-17 12:25:44 PM

Party Boy: sprawl15: No. No you do not.

So, you are going to take a Boeing example (and one we did not flesh out) to speak for all corporations


Again, you're confused as to the methodology. I'm not looking at what Boeing did as The Problem and extending it to all corporations, I'm looking at the systemic influence of corporations and using Boeing as an example effect of the systemic problem. That's why this question:

Party Boy: You probably cant take that example to speak for all of boeing.


is just as totally farking stupid as your rambling about Jewish private donations.
 
2012-03-17 12:26:01 PM

sprawl15: .


Look. You are going to need to walk away from the conflation. If you want to make a claim about the whole, you are going to need evidence for the whole - not some assertion with some examples. No weasle words with "many" or "most." You don't know "most" without a detailed analysis of the whole.

Good luck with that. Thats going to be a whole bunch of work.
 
2012-03-17 12:27:56 PM

sprawl15: systemic influence of corporations


Party Boy: you are going to need evidence for the whole - not some assertion with some examples


You have a whole bunch of work to get at this assertion.
 
2012-03-17 12:28:08 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Is there a single republican alive who's not a lying sack of shiat? It seems to be the only pillar of the GOP's schizophrenic platform.


The party of Atwater and Rove wouldn't know the truth if it hit them in their totalitarian asses.l
 
2012-03-17 12:28:26 PM

Party Boy: You are going to need to walk away from the conflation.


You were just as stupid when you were rambling about Jews, but it was a lot funnier. Try to stick to that in the future, so people can at least get a giggle before ignoring you.
 
2012-03-17 12:29:31 PM

sprawl15: You were just as stupid


This is the point where you have run out of argument.
 
2012-03-17 12:32:35 PM
You're stupid.
No you're stupid.
Ya but you're stupider.
No you're the stupidest.

LOL
 
ecl
2012-03-17 12:32:37 PM
gayparis.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-03-17 12:33:03 PM

Party Boy: sprawl15: You were just as stupid

This is the point where you have run out of argument.


Your inability to understand the argument doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You simply don't know what the fark you're talking about, and you won't bother climbing down off your high horse long enough to listen. You didn't even realize I mentioned Boeing until 10 posts later, when I re-mentioned them...and even then, you were a condescending shiat about how I finally came up with a specific example. Why should I bother explaining anything to someone so dense, who has such pride in their own ignorance? It would be more productive and less painful to go slam my dick in a car door for the next hour.
 
2012-03-17 12:34:58 PM
"Republicans and in fact most Americans recognize thatcredit is owed to the men and women who work on the line and build the cars, and those engineers who brought us world class cars and trucks designed for a global economy believe the union workers are nothing more than communist thugs who think Obama is their savior and hate America," according to Schostak.

/accuracy, blah, blah.
 
2012-03-17 12:35:29 PM
i219.photobucket.com
 
2012-03-17 12:36:25 PM

sprawl15: It would be more productive and less painful to go slam my dick in a car door for the next hour.


Have fun with that. I'll go do something less destructive.
 
2012-03-17 12:39:40 PM
GOP in 2009: "Obama's auto industry bailouts are socialism"
GOP in 2010: "Obama's auto industry bailouts are a huge failure"
GOP in 2012: "Why is Obama taking credit for bailing out the auto industry?"

"JEWS"

/got it
 
2012-03-17 12:40:29 PM

winterwhile: MisterRonbo: winterwhile: born_yesterday: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Parthenogenetic: I am a middle class white Christian man living in the Midwest who works in the auto industry. I witnessed this total failure of a bailout firsthand.

That...that was beautiful sir.

Thanks for that post, P.

those who work at Southwest airlines, that grew because Air Florida and Eastern went under

Have something to say to you......

we make a P&L statement work, your Government Motors has yet to do that

General Motors showed a net profit if $7.6 billion last year.

Facts, how do they work?

actually they still have 50B to pay back, so your p&l statement is Farkin wrong


GM only took out $6.7 billion in loans. And paid it back.

You're thinking of equity (stock). Note that debt and equity are not the same.

When and how much of that gets paid back depends on when the Treasury decides to sell it. Out of GMs hands.

Seriously, you don't know the difference between loaning money and buying a chunk of the company, and then blather that other people can't read a p&l statement?
 
2012-03-17 12:40:38 PM

Mistymtnhop: mat catastrophe: With any luck, we are witnessing the death of America's right-wing party which will leave us with America's center-right party and another player TBA.

The demise isn't going to be pretty. They wont die quietly and they'll take some good people down with them. But you're right.


I really have no idea where the other party would be able to position themselves to take a significant amount of the vote. The Democrats have been gravitating towards a 'moderate' position on nearly everything; while there are plenty of people who would disagree with them, I just can't see the various wings ever being able to team up enough to get a significant portion of the vote.
 
2012-03-17 12:44:27 PM
i've almost got it

obviously, the jewish people snidely provoked hitler into slaughtering as many jewish people as possible

hitler liked cars

therefore ... it's the jewish people's fault

qed
 
2012-03-17 12:46:21 PM
s2.hubimg.com
 
ecl
2012-03-17 12:48:43 PM

21-7-b: i've almost got it

obviously, the jewish people snidely provoked hitler into slaughtering as many jewish people as possible

hitler liked cars

therefore ... it's the jewish people's fault

qed


Hitler was a secret Jew. He knew to make a new Jewish world he would have to throw a few million Jews under the bus. Sneaky Jews.
 
2012-03-17 12:49:58 PM
clever bastard
 
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