muck4doo: You're not going to answer the question, are you?

I answered the question.

You asked, "So you are a libertarian?"

I answered,

"To an extent I'm a libertarian. But, equally, I'm a utilitarian.

"I don't believe in formulaic or dogmatic responses."

As I noted, I've answered TWO questions to your one... even as you avoided the questions I put to you.

So, here are the questions again: if freedom of action is about libertarianism v authoritarianism, why did you basically equate libertarianism with conservatism?

Do you have a definition of conservative/conservatism that doesn't confuse the two issues?

And, while we're on the subject, if you'll be so kind, please answer my previous question: I consider myself a liberal...but, I believe in what you claim to believe. So why do you consider those feelings to be conservative? Why don't you consider them to be liberal?

Of course, you should keep in mind that I'm not looking to score points. I'm looking to get an understanding of your philosophy.

muck4doo: By the way. Left or right can be authoritarian or libertarian.

I'm not sure what your point here is. But, your claim DOES call out for you to answer the questions that you've done your very best to avoid: if that's so, why did you basically equate libertarianism with conservatism?

Do you have a definition of conservative/conservatism that doesn't confuse the two issues?

muck4doo: If you need further explaining...

I'm not asking for an explanation, I'm asking for a few straightforward answers...which you have yet to provide: if freedom of action is about libertarianism v authoritarianism, why did you basically equate libertarianism with conservatism?

Do you have a definition of conservative/conservatism that doesn't confuse the two issues?

And, while we're on the subject, if you'll be so kind, please answer my previous question: I consider myself a liberal...but, I believe in what you claim to believe. So why do you consider those feelings to be conservative? Why don't you consider them to be liberal?

Why are you doing your level best to avoid answering these very, very simple questions?

Slut Walkesha. Let's do it.

GAT_00: Honestly, from my perspective, there isn't much difference between libertarianism and conservatism.

I'm trying to get an idea of what people mean when they describe themselves with these terms. I'm not looking for what the people who self-identify believe or disbelieve when it comes to actual policy. I'm just looking at this -- for the moment -- from a definitional standpoint.

I know the distinction isn't all that obvious. But, it is real.

spman: Nadie_AZ: spman: It'd be nice if the headline was accurate and read "GOP state senator wants to outlaw divorce, but I guess fair reporting is too much to ask sometimes. Yeah, one nutjob says something outrageous and all of sudden it becomes the platform of the entire party. Logic, how does it work?

Every session of Congress, Chuck Rangel introduces a bill to reinstate the Military Draft. Does that mean that the Democrats want all your kids to be drafted and serve in the military? Granted, it'd probably do those basement dwellers a lot of good, but I digress.

I suppose if we saw democratic state senators around the nation pushing for the draft and forcing young people to go to war, you'd have a point. But we don't.

As we've got state senators in several states (and a presidential candidate) pushing a very anti-woman stance lately, it's led many to conclude that this IS the GOP platform.

Those same women voted overwhelmingly for that presidential candidate you're talking about

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2012/03/why-republi c an-women-vote-for-santorum.html

There's a lot of crazy people out there with a lot of crazy opinions. Wake me up when state actually passes a law banning divorce, hell, wake me up when one even makes it to a vote.

Of course, in 2009, the Teahadists were just crazy people with crazy opinions, and douchebags like you were yawning, saying "when one of them actually makes it into serious contention for office, wake me up..." Don't try to deny it, I knew plenty of Republicans--some of them right here on Fark--who were insisting that the Tea Party was 1/4 crazy nutjobs and 3/4 libs stirring the pot.

And now dummies like you are playing the same song again. Only this time, your precious GOP is going swirling down the toilet while you sit on the deck and play your out-of-tune anthem. I'd laugh except you're taking the country with you.

what_now: But really, when the left complains about the "war on women" they're just biatching for no reason.

There is no "War on Women". It's all fake and manufactured by the Democrats. At least, I just heard Bill O' Reilly say this, as I was flipping through the channels.

You can't explain that!

muck4doo: I believe that's essential to wanting the government not dictating to you what you want to do with your life. You are right though in that is also what a lot liberals want. That's why I brought up authoritarianism versus liberalism.

Typo?

muck4doo: what_now: muck4doo: what_now: spman: Every session of Congress, Chuck Rangel introduces a bill to reinstate the Military Draft. Does that mean that the Democrats want all your kids to be drafted and serve in the military? Granted, it'd probably do those basement dwellers a lot of good, but I digress.

I do.

I think everyone should serve their country for a few years- in military, park service, teach for America etc etc. I think it would improve our country greatly.

Rangel does this because he wants middle class white people will be less farking bloodthirsty if it was their kids going to die for no particular reason.

*facepalm*

You're a well known lib here. Thanks for proving my point.

/Can we start recognizing the difference between authoritarians and libertarians anytime soon on Fark?
//I doubt it.
///Everyone is too focused on the left/right part of the spectrum

There's no way that's any sort of controversial opinion, btw.

Did I say that? There are lots of authoritarians here that feel the same way. I didn't say it was controversial.

How is that authoritarian? Are you one of those people who think taxes are theft and children shouldn't have to go to school?

muck4doo: I believe that's essential to wanting the government not dictating to you what you want to do with your life. You are right though in that is also what a lot liberals want. That's why I brought up authoritarianism versus liberalism.

It's interesting that you wrote "liberalism" when the earlier dichotomy was between authoritarianism and libertarianism.

In any case, I find conservatism to be naturally antithetical to freedom. Richard Loving and Mildred Jeter's marriage was made illegal by definitionally conservative laws that prohibited people from living according to their own consciences simply because of bigotry and tradition. Laws prohibiting marriage equality are definitionally conservative and antithetical to freedom.

It is NOT liberal -- in fact, it is absolutely illiberal -- to prohibit people from doing things that hurt absolutely no one but, possibly, the person making the choice. Is it conservative? Not necessarily. But, with conservatism -- in a definitional sense -- it's always a possibility.

muck4doo: Would you consider GAT a liberal?

When dealing with people, rather than ideas or definitions, I tend to preface terms like liberal and conservative with a little phrase: self-identified. I don't hold people to definitions found in dictionaries, or to definitions I thought of myself, because putting people into boxes like that tends not to work. If a person wants to put HIMSELF in that box, cool. I'm not going to do it for him. Policies? Sure. People? No.

The Why Not Guy: muck4doo: As long as you get to decide what is hate speech.

I love how you turn a story about a Conservative wanting to ban divorce into "Liberals want to run my life and he's not really a Conservative anyway."

"It's all about me and how THEY'RE ruining my life because I'm special."

GAT_00: Those are Republican.

Huh? He asked you about the core ideals of libertarians and conservatives, so you give him a list of what you think are the core beliefs of a third group that is neither?

Via Infinito: At least we're not in a country where you have to commit suicide because the court ordered you to marry your rapist and live with his family instead of punishing him.

Wow, that's as good as the time the abusive alcoholic I was with told me "at least I am not on crack".

I mean, I guess there are silver linings, but... if that's the best silver lining we can come up with, we're in trouble.