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		The six most terrifying implications of the Harry Potter universe (cracked.com)		145
		More: Scary, Harry Potter, half bloods, potter, Voldemort, Dumbledore, Hermione Granger, fat lady, American South

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BohemianGraham		2012-03-14 03:08:08 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: BohemianGraham: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Oh, and another thing about the paintings. They had to be very specifically placed, because a painting subject could only move between their own paintings. For instance, Dumbledore could not move into a painting of anyone else.

Not true. They could visit other paintings, the Fat Lady ended up hiding in another painting after Sirius shredded hers. There's even mention of it in the book that some of the paintings go visit each other, and they're not of the same subject.

Only within the same building.

Yes, which isn't what you initially said. ;) Same subject paintings could move around from building to building, different subjects could only go within the same building.

The_Six_Fingered_Man		2012-03-14 03:10:15 PM

BohemianGraham: The_Six_Fingered_Man: BohemianGraham: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Oh, and another thing about the paintings. They had to be very specifically placed, because a painting subject could only move between their own paintings. For instance, Dumbledore could not move into a painting of anyone else.

Not true. They could visit other paintings, the Fat Lady ended up hiding in another painting after Sirius shredded hers. There's even mention of it in the book that some of the paintings go visit each other, and they're not of the same subject.

Only within the same building.

Yes, which isn't what you initially said. ;) Same subject paintings could move around from building to building, different subjects could only go within the same building.

Yes, I was incorrect in my original assertion.

born_yesterday		2012-03-14 03:17:18 PM

Fubini: Abner Doon: stevetherobot: #6. The People in Paintings Are Alive

I was under the impression that they weren't alive, they just appeared to be alive. A kind of magical Artificial Intelligence.

Alan Turing would like a word with you.

In short, what's the difference between AI that good, an actual living intelligence? How would you tell them apart? Is there morally any difference?

I always thought that the painting people were more or less frozen in time. You know they can learn facts (such as when they use painting people to transfer messages), but they can't learn new concepts and their personality doesn't change. It also appears that they don't think for themselves, but merely react to the circumstances around them, and even then are ultimately most content just sitting in their pictures being paintings.

You never see a painting person actively subvert someone, and you also never see a painting person try to help someone of their own initiative.

I think if you painted Voldemort, he'd just sit in his painting and get huffy at people. I don't think that painting Voldemort would even have the capacity to want to overthrow the wizarding world.

So the politics tab is infested with paintings from the world of Harry Potter?

MoronLessOff		2012-03-14 03:25:51 PM

stevetherobot: arcsecond: Optimal_Illusion: Now when someone creates a printed circuit that can either handle or create magical energy, we gots ourselves an apocolypse.

I would like to introduce you to Charles Stross and his "Laundry" series

There's also a comic fantasy novel, Grunts, in which the bad guys get their hands on modern human weapons and other tech and combine it with magic.

My caster, let me show you it.
media.animevice.com

LemSkroob		2012-03-14 03:31:18 PM

While it does not have any mind-warping consiquences, i have always wondered the following:

It seems just about anything can be done with magic, in HP or any other book around magical people. Fine, thats fantastic. Then why is it that 90% of the tasks that the characters set out to do they dont even think to use magic for?

need to walk to the other side of the campus? Why not just take the broom everywhere?

Worried about missing a commuter train to hogwarts? Why bother with that when anyone can either teleport/broom fly/enchant a car at any time they want?

Writing by hand? Why not use the enchanted quill every time???

Nowhere do they discuss things like a daily limit of spells or something like some magic-battery that has to be recharged to do more.

If anything can be done at any time by magic, why not use it???

Strolpol		2012-03-14 03:32:00 PM

Fano: Strolpol: I agree with #5, insofar as the wizards in Harry Potter are shockingly naive about the Muggle world. They don't even know what guns are (one of the Prophet's newspaper articles had to describe it as a "muggle wand for killing"). The problem isn't that they couldn't use magic to protect themselves, it's that they wouldn't even be aware that they needed to. I mean, Arthur Weasley spent his life studying Muggle stuff and still doesn't know how a freaking AIRPLANE works, so the average witch or wizard would be completely unaware of what a nuke was or that they needed to protect themselves.

Plus, I'm pretty sure Rowling herself has said that wizards would ultimately fall against Muggle weaponry.

I want a sequel with wizard al-Qaeda getting a magical WMD.

*hand goes up*

Since there are a fair number of "mudbloods" that come from non-wizarding families, shouldn't there be a number of wizards that have at least SOME knowledge of muggle tech? At least up to the time they were 11 or so. Granted, UK kids might not know the technical details of a gun, but I would imagine they'd remember a lot of other things. Or heck, maybe it just doesn't mean much when you've got a wicked cool spell that can do the same thing. Or maybe their old teachers, even the hip new ones beat it out of them.

The entire point of the series was that the Wizarding world largely ignored and was biased against anything that went against their long-established traditions, and that included marginalizing the opinions of half-bloods (and anything else that wasn't a pure-blooded wizard). They mistreated goblins, centaurs, elves, and all other manner of creatures. Dumbledore came to realize, after his youthful magical supremacy movement, that the wizarding world would have to change how it worked if it wanted to survive.

It's even worse when you consider that their community was already waning in size; Voldemort himself tries to stop the bloodshed in the last book because he knows that magical blood is already pretty thin, and the "pure-bloods" have screwed the gene-pool royally by marrying their cousins for generations. On top of that, despite the total lack of privacy afforded by magic, there is NOTHING in the way of a Child Protective Services for wizards. Children face abusive households and have no recourse for protection, despite the fact that magic could easily be used to track that kind of thing. Tom Riddle, Severus Snape, and Harry Potter all suffered for this.

r1niceboy		2012-03-14 03:38:55 PM

Terry Pratchett is one of the writers to actually imagine a magical world in which technology and magic coexist and are interchangeable. He does it as a joke, but the Gooseberry, iconographs, Hex, etc are magic instead of electronic. It's clever and something the Potter world could have been better having followed.

I recall reading it and wondering if the students at Hogwarts ever learn physics, English composition, math, cooking, woodworking, accounting, or anything else that would be somewhat practical even for wizards. I was left feeling somewhat unsatisfied with the whole thing, and especially the ministry careers, which appeared to be either folding bits of paper or doing fiddly magical things with little real application to the world they live in. It could, with a little spin, be used by right-wingers to scare the mouth breathers with the dangers of a too powerful government using it redundant bulk to cow the masses.

macadamnut		2012-03-14 03:52:07 PM

"No I haven't read it, because I'm a forty-year-old man."

Jim from Saint Paul		2012-03-14 04:02:24 PM

Fano: Since there are a fair number of "mudbloods" that come from non-wizarding families, shouldn't there be a number of wizards that have at least SOME knowledge of muggle tech

images2.fanpop.com

/not sure if srs

Uncle_Slacker		2012-03-14 04:03:24 PM

Still no mention of the inability to correct poor eyesight?

I mean c'mon, you can petrify someone and then un-petrify them, you can mend broken bones, fix teeth, you name it, there's a spell to rectify the situation... but you're going to need to wear these ugly-ass glasses because we can't fix THAT!

Also, you have a time turner but can't use it to save your parents, you have talking pictures but not one of your dead-ass parents... my nephew still comes up with questions I cannot answer.

hstein3		2012-03-14 04:04:03 PM

nocturn:
Dresden mentions again and again that belief fuels magic, almost defines it. This could be occurring on a personal level as well as a collective level--the wizards don't THINK it should work well with modern technology, so magic tends not to (even for people who think it should). You'll notice, though, there are regular exceptions--most often when Harry really, really needs a piece of technology to work, and when he's very distracted by other though ...

Not to up the nerd-level in this thread anymore, but this comes up a lot if you play the Dresden Files RPG, particularly for groups mixing mortals and wizards. This conversation played out at my table frequently:

"Okay, I use my cell phone to call our contact."

"Really? Your wizard friend there has been flinging fireballs for the last hour and you expect your cell phone to be functional?"

"And by that I mean I have a lead case in the trunk of my car filled with disposables. I get one of those."

" . . . Fine. Gimme a fate point."

/CSB

Jim from Saint Paul		2012-03-14 04:04:34 PM

LemSkroob: While it does not have any mind-warping consiquences, i have always wondered the following:

It seems just about anything can be done with magic, in HP or any other book around magical people. Fine, thats fantastic. Then why is it that 90% of the tasks that the characters set out to do they dont even think to use magic for?

need to walk to the other side of the campus? Why not just take the broom everywhere?

Worried about missing a commuter train to hogwarts? Why bother with that when anyone can either teleport/broom fly/enchant a car at any time they want?

Writing by hand? Why not use the enchanted quill every time???

Nowhere do they discuss things like a daily limit of spells or something like some magic-battery that has to be recharged to do more.

If anything can be done at any time by magic, why not use it???

Because that would piss off Mrs Weasly.

texdent		2012-03-14 04:05:17 PM

Uncle_Slacker: time turner but can't use it to save your parents

You have to spin it 300,000 times or something.

wippit		2012-03-14 04:07:20 PM

Technology + Magic... and you people are posting D&D?

RPG FAIL!!

www.hoboes.com

Consider this your redemption.

devilEther		2012-03-14 04:09:42 PM

macadamnut: [www.hecklerspray.com image 282x282]

"No I haven't read it, because I'm a forty-year-old man."

Don't give me that. You just have no imagination or sense of wonder. This is evinced by your dull, lifeless eyes.

Strolpol		2012-03-14 04:10:41 PM

Uncle_Slacker: Still no mention of the inability to correct poor eyesight?

I mean c'mon, you can petrify someone and then un-petrify them, you can mend broken bones, fix teeth, you name it, there's a spell to rectify the situation... but you're going to need to wear these ugly-ass glasses because we can't fix THAT!

Also, you have a time turner but can't use it to save your parents, you have talking pictures but not one of your dead-ass parents... my nephew still comes up with questions I cannot answer.

One of the Harry Potter Rifftrax has a great joke about that.

"Since we have magic and can clearly fix severe medical problems, shouldn't we get around to fixing eyesight or curing cancer?"

"NONSENSE! MORE VOMIT-FLAVORED JELLYBEANS!"

Glockenspiel Hero		2012-03-14 04:15:42 PM

LemSkroob: If anything can be done at any time by magic, why not use it???

I always liked the explanation that Stephen Brust uses in his Vlad universe. Yes, you can do basically anything with magic. The problem comes in that you have to concentrate on it all the time- you're tapping seriously destructive forces and losing concentration at the wrong time is bad.

Thus the complaints of the army while they march in the rain and mud- most of the soldiers could put up an umbrella spell trivially, but how embarrassing would it be to space out, lose control and get your brain turned to mush from an umbrella spell?

Morpheses		2012-03-14 04:20:22 PM

Glockenspiel Hero: LemSkroob: If anything can be done at any time by magic, why not use it???

I always liked the explanation that Stephen Brust uses in his Vlad universe. Yes, you can do basically anything with magic. The problem comes in that you have to concentrate on it all the time- you're tapping seriously destructive forces and losing concentration at the wrong time is bad.

Thus the complaints of the army while they march in the rain and mud- most of the soldiers could put up an umbrella spell trivially, but how embarrassing would it be to space out, lose control and get your brain turned to mush from an umbrella spell?

Agreed, Brust rocks this. In fact, Brust rocks in just about every way.

badaboom		2012-03-14 04:24:02 PM

Braindeath		2012-03-14 04:25:27 PM

stevetherobot: I always thought the problem was electronics. Older tech doesn't involve electronics, so it isn't affected by magical energy. The reason Odin and those like him could use electronics was because their power was distinct from magic.

That was my understanding. I assumed Harry has a different electronic field around him because of the magic. I know several people who have altered electrical fields because of being struck by lightening or illness and they kill electronics too. I could never figure out why Harry doesn't invest in some farking ruggerized tech or get some faraday bags for his friends. I would assume that would at least help a little bit.

nocturn: Dresden magic sticks mostly to EMP rules with some fudging as it appears magic in that universe can also screw up something non-electric but complicated, like an automatic weapon. But not always, only as Butcher requires it for plot development... :) However, Butcher is usually pretty good about stressing that Harry has to stay verrrry calm when being in the presence of anything electronic, and staying completely away from computers. I think they only thing Harry didn't have an issue with was the werewolves' SUV.

Butcher is kind of all the place in his writing. To be fair though, in Ex Machina automatic weapons are also considered technology enough that Hundred can control them. Harry should start carrying grenades. They would work.

hasty ambush		2012-03-14 04:28:44 PM

Ok I saw the movies and I noticed some things. FIrst off a wizard was assigned to protect the muggel prime minister, why? Wizards are not immune to technology like bullets. It would seem a few well armed SAS bodyguards would be sufficient. Also since the muggle prime minister is aware of the threat why not lend assistance to the magic world. It would seem that a Royal Marine Commando or better still a US Marine Expeditionary Unit would have tipped the ballance of power nicely in favor of the good guys who would make it possible for the muggle forces to "enter" their world.

This is all of course realizing they are just entertainment.

Honest Bender		2012-03-14 04:34:44 PM

Moroning: . I would much rather live in Harry's magical world, or in Dritzz's world, or Belgarath's world than here.

That's a pretty all or nothing gamble. You're either a regular Joe caught in a midevil world or you're an immortal apprentice to a God, granted the God-like power to manifest your will.

Tough call...

Mike Chewbacca		2012-03-14 04:35:57 PM

Strolpol: Tom Riddle, Severus Snape, and Harry Potter all suffered for this.

Well, IIRC Tom Riddle was born in 1926 (google is my friend). There wasn't even a MUGGLE CPS at that time.

texdent: Uncle_Slacker: time turner but can't use it to save your parents

You have to spin it 300,000 times or something.

And since you can't go FORWARD in time with the TT, you'd have to live through the years between when James and Lily were killed and whenever you left.

Honest Bender		2012-03-14 04:37:24 PM

Abner Doon: In short, what's the difference between AI that good, an actual living intelligence?

Well, just for starters, if it's an AI, then it means the souls of real people aren't eternally bound to the painting(s)... I'd say that's a pretty farking huge difference.

EdVenture		2012-03-14 04:39:34 PM

stevetherobot: #6. The People in Paintings Are Alive

I was under the impression that they weren't alive, they just appeared to be alive. A kind of magical Artificial Intelligence.

#5 has already been covered, but let me address the issue with modern weapons. It seems to me that the reason they don't fear modern weapons is because they can disable them magically. They don't have to understand what a nuclear bomb is because they can transform it into a sofa.

#4. A Magical Education Is Hardly an Education
We do know they have hospitals -- but only for the magically infirm, which makes us think that Harry Potter's world is one where no one understands the human body or how it functions, because they've never had to learn.

Wizards are able to treat illness and injury with magic. Madame Pomfrey was able to regrow the bones in Harry's arm, something that Muggle medicine is incapable of.

#3. There Are No Career Options

Just because you don't see them doesn't mean they don't exist.

#2. Harry's Magical Map, and Magical Invasion of Privacy

I'll buy that, but I imagine that if you knew someone had a magical map, you could figure out a magical countermeasure. (The Easter Egg of the map showing two students having sex was awesome.)

#1. In the Wizard World, Nothing Is Private; No One Is Safe
Harry, as an underage wizard, is not supposed to be using magic outside of his school, and so the Ministry of Magic wanted to make damn sure he knew that they had their eye on him, thanks to their ability to invisibly monitor everything he does, 24 hours a day. Job done, Ministry of Magic. Job done.

I imagine it wasn't so much monitoring everything he does as a general spell that detects the use of underage magical use. Something akin to the seismic monitoring stations that are used to detect nuclear explosions.

As for the other examples, those spells/potions were very difficult/dangerous to make. Some of them required extensive knowledge of the Dark Arts, which not everyone would have.

/I'm such ...

She explained the Ministry monitors the world for unexplained uses of magic. That's how they caught Harry floating his Aunt away. There were to be no wizards in the house other than Harry so it must be him being naughty. Hermione was able to get away with mending Harry's glasses in Diagon Alley because there are plenty of wizards there, no way to pin it on underage use.

nocturn		2012-03-14 04:39:53 PM

stevetherobot		2012-03-14 04:40:48 PM

hasty ambush: Ok I saw the movies and I noticed some things. FIrst off a wizard was assigned to protect the muggel prime minister, why? Wizards are not immune to technology like bullets. It would seem a few well armed SAS bodyguards would be sufficient. Also since the muggle prime minister is aware of the threat why not lend assistance to the magic world. It would seem that a Royal Marine Commando or better still a US Marine Expeditionary Unit would have tipped the ballance of power nicely in favor of the good guys who would make it possible for the muggle forces to "enter" their world.

This is all of course realizing they are just entertainment.

All a wizard would have to do to take out the SAS bodyguards would be to apparate in and cast a Petrificus Totalis spell on them immediately. They wouldn't be able to defend against such a thing the way a wizard can. Same goes for the Royal Marine Commando unit. Body armor wouldn't stop a spell and there are all sorts of spells that would take out their Muggle weapons all at once.

nocturn		2012-03-14 04:41:42 PM

whitey_d		2012-03-14 04:46:28 PM

Let's see if I can nail off some of these:

LemSkroob: While it does not have any mind-warping consiquences, i have always wondered the following:

It seems just about anything can be done with magic, in HP or any other book around magical people. Fine, thats fantastic. Then why is it that 90% of the tasks that the characters set out to do they dont even think to use magic for?

need to walk to the other side of the campus? Why not just take the broom everywhere?

The brooms aren't very easy to control and most walking is done within the castle, good chance you'd smack into each other. Also then you'd have to carry a broom around. Can't teleport within school grounds either.

Worried about missing a commuter train to hogwarts? Why bother with that when anyone can either teleport/broom fly/enchant a car at any time they want?

The idea if I remember right is that the castle is hidden, and not supposed to be easy to find. Plus it's pretty far away so it would be a long trip via broom/car. Also you're pretty visible to muggles on the ground and that kind of thing is frowned upon.

Writing by hand? Why not use the enchanted quill every time???

This one I have no idea. Expense maybe?

hasty ambush: Ok I saw the movies and I noticed some things. FIrst off a wizard was assigned to protect the muggel prime minister, why? Wizards are not immune to technology like bullets. It would seem a few well armed SAS bodyguards would be sufficient. Also since the muggle prime minister is aware of the threat why not lend assistance to the magic world. It would seem that a Royal Marine Commando or better still a US Marine Expeditionary Unit would have tipped the ballance of power nicely in favor of the good guys who would make it possible for the muggle forces to "enter" their world.

The idea of the wizard protector was to protect the prime minister from a magic attack and to inform him of goings on in the wizard world. Also the prime minister is supposed to be one of the few "muggles" that actually knows the wizard world exists. The wizards try to keep things on the down low as much as possible and having commando's and marines join in, kind of defeats that purpose.

hasty ambush		2012-03-14 04:46:59 PM

r1niceboy: Terry Pratchett is one of the writers to actually imagine a magical world in which technology and magic coexist and are interchangeable. He does it as a joke, but the Gooseberry, iconographs, Hex, etc are magic instead of electronic. It's clever and something the Potter world could have been better having followed.

Jane Foster: Describe exactly what happened to you last night.

Thor: Your ancestors called it magic... : ...but you call it science. I come from a land where they are one and the same

www.chud.com

Ghastly		2012-03-14 04:50:13 PM

Just imagine the hentai I could come up with using living paintings.

nocturn		2012-03-14 04:54:21 PM

Honest Bender: Abner Doon: In short, what's the difference between AI that good, an actual living intelligence?

Well, just for starters, if it's an AI, then it means the souls of real people aren't eternally bound to the painting(s)... I'd say that's a pretty farking huge difference.

The people in the paintings are either souls or ghosts, not 'AI'. I'd go for the former over the latter. People who loved Hogwarts so much they decided to stay behind and keep watch over things. You don't really see anything in the way of an administrative staff. Let's say the paintings fill that role.

hasty ambush		2012-03-14 05:00:07 PM

whitey_d:

hasty ambush: Ok I saw the movies and I noticed some things. FIrst off a wizard was assigned to protect the muggel prime minister, why? Wizards are not immune to technology like bullets. It would seem a few well armed SAS bodyguards would be sufficient. Also since the muggle prime minister is aware of the threat why not lend assistance to the magic world. It would seem that a Royal Marine Commando or better still a US Marine Expeditionary Unit would have tipped the ballance of power nicely in favor of the good guys who would make it possible for the muggle forces to "enter" their world.

The idea of the wizard protector was to protect the prime minister from a magic attack and to inform him of goings on in the wizard world. Also the prime minister is supposed to be one of the few "muggles" that actually knows the wizard world exists. The wizards try to keep things on the down low as much as possible and having commando's and marines join in, kind of defeats that purpose.

As oppose to the consequences for both the good wizards and muggles had the good wizards lost? At the minimum I would think the muggle PM would want to have at least a few Special Ops teams and maybe armed UAVs lending support tocover his basis. It would limit the number of muggels who become aware of the magic world to a manageable number. An SAS or SBS sniper team to take out Voldemort with a .50 cal or he gets put down by a Hellfire from a drone; maybe a cruise missile or JDAM through his bedroom window.

Technology is your friend.

stevetherobot		2012-03-14 05:15:15 PM

whitey_d: Worried about missing a commuter train to hogwarts? Why bother with that when anyone can either teleport/broom fly/enchant a car at any time they want?

The idea if I remember right is that the castle is hidden, and not supposed to be easy to find. Plus it's pretty far away so it would be a long trip via broom/car. Also you're pretty visible to muggles on the ground and that kind of thing is frowned upon.

One of the reasons Ron and Harry got in so much trouble for taking the flying car to Hogwarts was because they were seen by so many Muggles.

Magorn		2012-03-14 05:23:47 PM

Glockenspiel Hero		2012-03-14 05:30:06 PM

Ghastly: Just imagine the hentai I could come up with using living paintings.

Quick and dirty, just for you

public.gettysburg.edu

SteelDraco		2012-03-14 05:47:42 PM

hstein3: nocturn:
Dresden mentions again and again that belief fuels magic, almost defines it. This could be occurring on a personal level as well as a collective level--the wizards don't THINK it should work well with modern technology, so magic tends not to (even for people who think it should). You'll notice, though, there are regular exceptions--most often when Harry really, really needs a piece of technology to work, and when he's very distracted by other though ...

Not to up the nerd-level in this thread anymore, but this comes up a lot if you play the Dresden Files RPG, particularly for groups mixing mortals and wizards. This conversation played out at my table frequently:

"Okay, I use my cell phone to call our contact."

"Really? Your wizard friend there has been flinging fireballs for the last hour and you expect your cell phone to be functional?"

"And by that I mean I have a lead case in the trunk of my car filled with disposables. I get one of those."

" . . . Fine. Gimme a fate point."

/CSB

When I ran a Dresden Files game, one of the most sought-after items was a cell phone that got service ANYWHERE (up to inside an angelic citadel in the Nevernever they invaded for a jailbreak). It was made by a gnome changeling obsessed with pop culture technology, making magical versions of items from movies and stuff. He also provided them with a ghost trap from Ghostbusters at one point.

There was also a magic 8 ball that could answer questions posed to it with time magic, but it was restricted to the answers on a magic 8 ball. That wasn't made by the gnome guy, though - it was possessed by the spirit of a mage who had reinvented Time magic and paradoxed himself out of physical existence.

That was a fun game.

Arachnophobe		2012-03-14 06:08:09 PM

arcsecond: Optimal_Illusion: Now when someone creates a printed circuit that can either handle or create magical energy, we gots ourselves an apocolypse.

I would like to introduce you to Charles Stross and his "Laundry" series

Woo, new author for me! Looks very cool, nook wishlisted. Thank you!

Uchiha_Cycliste		2012-03-14 06:22:10 PM

palelizard: The English Major: scottydoesntknow: Isn't that a pretty common trope among magic-themed books/games/movies? Basically magic does everything technology was created for, so there's no need for technology when you have magic.

It's subverted in The Dresden Files, mostly because of the "hex effect" magic users have on machines and technology (only a Volkswagen Beetle is non-techy enough for Dresden to drive) but other members of the circle use modern technology (Odin, for example). So it's not as lazy as the Potterverse.

I think that's a consequence of belief in modern wizards, to an extent. Dresden mentions the major defining "works/won't work" split to be around WW2, or (in my opinion) the invention of nuclear weaponry. Since then, technology has improved in leaps and bounds and at an accelerating pace. The change in status quo may be happening too quickly for the world to really catch-up, in terms of collective belief.

Dresden mentions again and again that belief fuels magic, almost defines it. This could be occurring on a personal level as well as a collective level--the wizards don't THINK it should work well with modern technology, so magic tends not to (even for people who think it should). You'll notice, though, there are regular exceptions--most often when Harry really, really needs a piece of technology to work, and when he's very distracted by other thoughts (or critters), tech seems to function better.

Folks like Odin (and Gard) see the world differently than wizards do--most of the tech users are really old school, folk who have seen a lot of changes in the past and don't view modern tech as leaving behind the old world, but rather a natural progression of it.

FMA/FMA Brotherhood handles it well.

Uchiha_Cycliste		2012-03-14 06:27:30 PM

Oh god damnit, I just figured out why I so desperately wanted to throw the Codex Alera into this conversation... =/ I am disappoint.

milominderbinder		2012-03-14 06:46:00 PM

Writing by hand? Why not use the enchanted quill every time???

This one I have no idea. Expense maybe?

This was explained...cheating...the automatic pens can cheat so they are forbidden.

macadamnut		2012-03-14 06:53:39 PM

badaboom: [damianov.files.wordpress.com image 622x769]

I don't know about that.

Niveras		2012-03-14 08:08:49 PM

stevetherobot: #3. There Are No Career Options

Just because you don't see them doesn't mean they don't exist.

There also isn't much need for careers when you can just magic up whatever you want. You don't even need money. At best, a career would function as a way to fill time and to maintain social interactions without it being "hang out at the pub for 12 hours a day."

I never read the books, but it seemed implied that all the bad guys were basically aristocrats without public lives, except as a means of infiltration. I'm sure there are plenty of wizards who just live their days out in the boonies, maybe devoting themselves to magical pursuits, or maybe just doing whatever the fark they want because they're nigh on gods, or living among the normal population.

Jim_Callahan		2012-03-14 08:49:17 PM

wippit: Technology + Magic... and you people are posting D&D?

RPG FAIL!!

[www.hoboes.com image 294x372]

Consider this your redemption.

Meet. Raise.

upload.wikimedia.org

And I guess also

upload.wikimedia.org

Tempest2097		2012-03-14 09:46:51 PM

Honestly, one halfway decent chemical engineer could take out the entirety of that stupid wizard academy. Wizards not understanding how technology works means no EOD technicians and nobody recognizes explosives or would even know how to deal with thermite and hydrofluoric acid coming out of the ceiling. See fire fall from the ceiling? ICE MAGIC, oh wait it explodes. The fundamental problem of magic in most fictional universes is just how long it takes to train a wizard/witch/mage. You're looking at a PHD equivalence in terms of time investment, and if they can't deal with technology at all, they're awfully easy to kill. It's the classic longbow vs crossbow type argument right there. Sure, they both do the same job, but the longbowman needs a lot more training than the crossbowman. He does it better, but there are only so many longbowmen. Sooner or later you're bound to run out in a war.

Nix Nightbird		2012-03-14 09:52:12 PM

nocturn: Honest Bender: Abner Doon: In short, what's the difference between AI that good, an actual living intelligence?

Well, just for starters, if it's an AI, then it means the souls of real people aren't eternally bound to the painting(s)... I'd say that's a pretty farking huge difference.

The people in the paintings are either souls or ghosts, not 'AI'. I'd go for the former over the latter. People who loved Hogwarts so much they decided to stay behind and keep watch over things. You don't really see anything in the way of an administrative staff. Let's say the paintings fill that role.

You're wrong. Rowling herself referred to them as being unthinking, and only capable of spouting catchphrases and following limited instructions.

The movies might have misrepresented them a little bit, in the name of theatrics, but in the books it's very clear that paintings are not spirits or souls. They're more like the wizard world equivalent of a computer-generated character with limited AI. Think of them as if they're a combination of Siri and a videogame character. They have limited ability to interact, and they are not self-aware; They're just animated, interactive, vocal representations of someone; Frequently even fictional figures, or animals.

They're not that different from Wizard photos, which are essentially magical animated gifs. They just have a more complex spell behind their interactivity level.

r1niceboy		2012-03-14 10:30:56 PM

Tempest2097: Honestly, one halfway decent chemical engineer could take out the entirety of that stupid wizard academy. Wizards not understanding how technology works means no EOD technicians and nobody recognizes explosives or would even know how to deal with thermite and hydrofluoric acid coming out of the ceiling. See fire fall from the ceiling? ICE MAGIC, oh wait it explodes. The fundamental problem of magic in most fictional universes is just how long it takes to train a wizard/witch/mage. You're looking at a PHD equivalence in terms of time investment, and if they can't deal with technology at all, they're awfully easy to kill. It's the classic longbow vs crossbow type argument right there. Sure, they both do the same job, but the longbowman needs a lot more training than the crossbowman. He does it better, but there are only so many longbowmen. Sooner or later you're bound to run out in a war.

One disenfranchised squib could join the army, and then suggest shelling these particular coordinates where there's just some old ruins that no-one cares about.

d-fens99		2012-03-14 11:04:32 PM

Optimal_Illusion: Here's one of my concerns, even if Tech after WWII or so is stymied by particle interference (for all we know the Higgs Boson is the building block of Magic), there are still practical things some stories overlook. In one of the Myth books, Little Myth Marker, a game of Dragon Poker is thrown, in spite of all sorts of wards, charms, spells counter-spells, and the like to keep the very complicated card game on the up and up. Turns out, the actual cheat was regular old marked cards, because all the wizards playing were too used to being on guard for mystical forms of cheating not a single one (except for Skeeve, but it was much later, and he kicked himself for not catching it first thing) ever thought or knew of such a thing being used.

At least the article touched on the use of guns, look at the final confrontation between Avatar and Blackwolf in Wizards. Best wizard battle ever.

Now when someone creates a printed circuit that can either handle or create magical energy, we gots ourselves an apocolypse.

Just wanted to say that Wizards (new window) came out on Blu-Ray yesterday.

thisispete		2012-03-14 11:17:28 PM

Need_MindBleach: To defend the "medieval stasis" idea, humanity pretty much was in medieval stasis for a thousand years, and in "classical stasis" for thousands and thousands of years before that, with only an occasional new innovation or technology happening every hundred years or so. Of course, by the time the actual Middle Ages came about, the pace of innovation was getting faster and faster, but the really the norm for humanity isn't for one century to be completely different from the last, it's for change to happen so slowly that from a modern perspective, it might as well be in stasis.

Don't forget, global population only reached 1 billion around 1800, so the pace of innovation took some time to gather steam. Most people were living in small, rural populations too, so there wasn't the communication between people to refine new ideas and apply them in a practical manner - in Europe at least. In the Islamic world there was a great deal of innovation, likewise in China. It was really only when places like Venice started trading at a significant level that the Renaissance took off. The subsequent emergence of institutions like the Royal Society provided fora for the communication of new ideas.

I like how Terry Pratchett has blended magic and technology in the Discworld series. But he has created rules for himself to work in when it comes to magic (which I don't think Rowling did, aside for the need for secrecy from Muggles):

"For wizards magic is science. All magic follows certain rules and if one knows the rules then one can master magic. On example is the conservation of energy (referred to as conservation of reality). Simply speaking, things have to level out at the end. If something goes up, something else has to go down. An example of this was seen in The Light Fantastic where a wizard propels himself up the the Tower of Art by causing a stone to drop from the tower's roof. It is not too hard to turn a cat into a dog, because this is simply turning one existing thing into another one. But to create things out of nothing is totally different thing and almost impossible to do for a wizard. " - Discworld Wiki

tillerman35		2012-03-14 11:25:47 PM

The thing that always gets me is that there are all these advanced Wizarding technologies- but they never make them available to Muggles. We have a huge fuel crisis, people are fighting wars in the Middle East over the last scraps of oil lingering in the Earth. Why isn't there an entire cottage industry for Wizards and Witches to side-by-side apparate Muggles to and from wherever they need to go? Why isn't there a Flu-network node in EVERY house, Muggle or Wizarding? Why isn't there a huge Portkey network set up to yank people from any city to any other city by just grabbing the appropriate old shoe?

There are thousands of kids suffering from osteogenesis imprefecta. Shouldn't Skele-grow be made available to them? Isn't withholding it an act of incredible cruelty?

Mrs. Weasley is able to track all of her kids through something as simple as a kitchen clock. Yet, children are abducted every day.

An "engorgio" charm can blow a zuchinni up to dozens of times its original size. Yet, people are still starving in Africa (it is to be assumed).

People can be given gills, fins, and flippers. Shouldn't there be a bunch of rastafarian wizards on tropical islands zapping tourists so they can go diving?

I could go on. Nearly every Wizarding "technology" could be harnessed for the greater good of Humanity, the environment, or even for mere profit. Wizarding folk are selfish jerks for keeping these amazing benefits away from Muggles.

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