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(MIT)   MIT wants to build a better parking lot   (web.mit.edu ) divider line
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11259 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2012 at 1:29 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-14 10:47:29 AM  
FTFA: Among other effects, plentiful and cheap parking keeps urban areas locked into a car dependency with social, economic and aesthetic drawbacks.

Yes, because cutting back on infrastructure used by automobiles has proven soooooo successful at getting people off the road in the past.

/*rolls eyes*
//people are gonna drive, stop trying to pretend otherwise and deal with it
 
2012-03-14 12:20:28 PM  
1) Create self driving car
2) Have car drive itself around while I get drunk in the bar
3) No more parking lots.
 
2012-03-14 12:47:09 PM  
/rant

The very first thing that needs to be done is never let anyone that has never driven a car design the lot...
The 'power centres' around here have dead end rows, or have lanes that don't line up confusing everyone and creating bottlenecks. There's one that has spaces about the right size for a fleet of fiat 500's another has nice wide spots, but the rows are too close together, anything lager than a mid size has a hard time getting in or out.

/rant off
 
2012-03-14 01:36:03 PM  
Well you could make a seven story building that had green house on top.
 
2012-03-14 01:36:06 PM  
Because they are tired of having to park the car in Harvard Yard.
 
2012-03-14 01:36:29 PM  
Ben-Joseph found himself confronted with the problem of explaining to students why parking lots are so often nothing but vast fields of asphalt occupying prime urban and suburban real estate.

Low building costs and overhead.

Next?
 
2012-03-14 01:37:42 PM  
We need more of those lots with sensors in each space and indicators at the end of each row telling you how many spaces are down that way. They really cut down on people prowling around looking for spaces.
 
2012-03-14 01:38:27 PM  
HailRobonia Because they are tired of having to park pahk the car cah in Harvard Hahvahd Yard. Yahd.


FTFY
 
2012-03-14 01:38:32 PM  

This text is now purple: Ben-Joseph found himself confronted with the problem of explaining to students why parking lots are so often nothing but vast fields of asphalt occupying prime urban and suburban real estate.

Low building costs and overhead.

Next?


"Moreover, the economics of parking lot construction means that surface parking lots, where the whole lot is on ground level, occupy a large footprint because they are relatively cheap to build - four times less expensive than parking garages and six to eight times less expensive than underground parking lots. "

And for chrissakes, here it is.
 
jvl
2012-03-14 01:39:01 PM  
FTFA: Parking lots are indeed ubiquitous in the United States: They take up one-third of the surface area in some major cities.

Bullpoop. Unless by "city" you mean an incorporated town with lots of business parks where the workers live in the neighboring town which has way less parking lots; for example, some of the office park cities in the Silicon Valley. The surface area of a metro region never approaches that.
 
2012-03-14 01:39:25 PM  
Use more porous surfaces to absorb rainwater. Don't use asphalt, which makes it super-hot in summer. Plant shade trees. Use larger turn radii on the ends of rows. Favor motorbike and bicycle parking near the door, with some shelter, if only from trees.

I hate the fake-out that you get when pulling up to park near a building entrance, and due to regs they've got 2-3 rows of un-used handicapped spaces in front, that you thought, from a distance, were open spots. I am 100 percent for the handicapped access thing, but jayzus, some places have way more allotted accessible slots than they will ever really need at any hour of the day. They go unused 90 percent of the time.
 
2012-03-14 01:40:12 PM  

SurfaceTension: FTFA: Among other effects, plentiful and cheap parking keeps urban areas locked into a car dependency with social, economic and aesthetic drawbacks.

Yes, because cutting back on infrastructure used by automobiles has proven soooooo successful at getting people off the road in the past.

/*rolls eyes*
//people are gonna drive, stop trying to pretend otherwise and deal with it


Only if you don't provide them viable alternatives. I park at the edge of DC and take the Metro (subway) in almost every time. Partially because there isn't enough parking, partially because they have an efficient, generally on time metro system. Though if I take my entire family in on the weekends, its cheaper and easier just to drive in and park.
 
2012-03-14 01:40:58 PM  
Better parking lots and parking structures are designed all the time, and have been since before WWII. The improved designs just aren't used.

Contractors like doing things the way they've previously done things. Planning committees like to approve things like the other things they've already approved. Everyone assumes motorists will just be confused by anything new and different.

Beyond that, there's a lot of lazy Who Gives A Fark that goes on by the people who actually get parking structures planned and built. If you use three parking ramps in a month, probably at least one of them, you'll notice, has a horrible design that impedes traffic, makes the structure appear full even when many spaces are still empty, etc.

Do you think whoever approved that terrible design got in trouble for it? Of course not. And so nothing changes. There's no incentive to change it.
 
2012-03-14 01:41:30 PM  
Costco parking lot is not bad. wide spaces..

I like trees in lots, but I don't want to reduce the number of spaces for said trees.

Parking lots are not somewhere one hangs out really. Design should be mindful of this. Ease of egress should be priority #1 not astectics.

Dude has too much time on his hands...maybe he should invent something round that would make it easier for objects to travel on.
 
jvl
2012-03-14 01:42:01 PM  

This text is now purple: Ben-Joseph found himself confronted with the problem of explaining to students why parking lots are so often nothing but vast fields of asphalt occupying prime urban and suburban real estate.

Low building costs and overhead.

Next?


Whoa there big fella. Stop trying to answer an economics question with economics. That is NOT how things are done in landscape design classes at Professional Universities.
 
2012-03-14 01:42:24 PM  
They're highlighting the Porter Sq. parking lot as a success?!? That thing is a total mess, my lady and I refer to it as the parking lot from hell and avoid it like the plague.
 
2012-03-14 01:44:37 PM  

SurfaceTension: FTFA: Among other effects, plentiful and cheap parking keeps urban areas locked into a car dependency with social, economic and aesthetic drawbacks.

Yes, because cutting back on infrastructure used by automobiles has proven soooooo successful at getting people off the road in the past.

/*rolls eyes*
//people are gonna drive, stop trying to pretend otherwise and deal with it


Not that simple. "Deal with it" doesn't just mean "throw more parking spots at the problem." See this LA magazine feature (new window) -- it's a long read, pretty good, which highlights Donald Stroup, the author of "The High Cost of Free Parking."
 
2012-03-14 01:47:07 PM  
Dammit, Romney! You had your chance!
 
2012-03-14 01:52:21 PM  

Joelogon: Not that simple. "Deal with it" doesn't just mean "throw more parking spots at the problem." See this LA magazine feature (new window) -- it's a long read, pretty good, which highlights Donald Stroup, the author of "The High Cost of Free Parking."


"Gehry's auditorium may be wonderful, says Shoup, but it is also a fine example of poor planning. "

Well of course it is. You already said "Gehry."
 
2012-03-14 01:56:18 PM  
Are they going to pave paradise to do it?
 
2012-03-14 01:57:17 PM  
They plant trees in new parking lots all the time. And when I say trees, I mean those 4 feet tall sticks that they call trees. You know, those things that will either die in a year or take so long to mature to a state where they are enjoyable that by the time they do, they cut them down because they are redoing the lot.
 
2012-03-14 01:57:41 PM  

MindStalker: Only if you don't provide them viable alternatives. I park at the edge of DC and take the Metro (subway) in almost every time. Partially because there isn't enough parking, partially because they have an efficient, generally on time metro system.


I live in DC as well, and you ARE joking, aren't you? It may have been that at one time, but lately, at least it seems to me during rush hour, the system is anything but on-time and efficient. And weekends, when you have to wait up to 25 minutes for a train, a 3-train ride back to my car (red->yellow->blue->franconia/springfield) can be brutal.

And that's not to mention the horrible traffic you have to go through just to GET to one of the outlying stations. For me it's a 20-30 minute drive just to get there.

/take the bus downtown and metro to my work most days, and slug home
 
2012-03-14 01:59:57 PM  

SurfaceTension: MindStalker: Only if you don't provide them viable alternatives. I park at the edge of DC and take the Metro (subway) in almost every time. Partially because there isn't enough parking, partially because they have an efficient, generally on time metro system.

I live in DC as well, and you ARE joking, aren't you? It may have been that at one time, but lately, at least it seems to me during rush hour, the system is anything but on-time and efficient. And weekends, when you have to wait up to 25 minutes for a train, a 3-train ride back to my car (red->yellow->blue->franconia/springfield) can be brutal.

And that's not to mention the horrible traffic you have to go through just to GET to one of the outlying stations. For me it's a 20-30 minute drive just to get there.

/take the bus downtown and metro to my work most days, and slug home


Ok, ok, we're not Europe. Yes I cheat, I park on the green line.
 
2012-03-14 02:08:05 PM  
You can get grant money for almost anything.
 
2012-03-14 02:14:58 PM  

Any Pie Left:

I hate the fake-out that you get when pulling up to park near a building entrance, and due to regs they've got 2-3 rows of un-used handicapped spaces in front, that you thought, from a distance, were open spots. I am 100 percent for the handicapped access thing, but jayzus, some places have way more allotted accessible slots than they will ever really need at any hour of the day. They go unused 90 percent of the time.


The number of handicapped parking spaces is determined as a percentage of the overall number of spaces in the lot (typically 2%) and are positioned near the handicapped accessible entrance/egress points of the building as dictated by the ADA code. There are also cases in which the local jurisdictional specifications are more conservative and override the ADA regs, resulting in even more handicapped spaces being required.

/civil engineer
//hates asphalt oceans as much as the next guy, if not more so.
///slashies kinda look like directional parking spaces
 
2012-03-14 02:18:18 PM  
What about a glass one? We haven't made one of those in a while.
 
2012-03-14 02:19:26 PM  
Here's my contribution, available for use and released to the public domain with no claim for ownership. Under each painted line, a row of vertical spikes approximately 3 inches long actuated by air cylinder or linear actuator. Tie the system to motion detectors so no one gets on through their feet. Every 10-15 minutes cycle the spikes up and then back down. Eventually we'll build a society that cares about parking inside the lines...
 
2012-03-14 02:19:49 PM  
Well of course they do, they're feeling the effect of letting all those women and Asians go to school there...
 
2012-03-14 02:20:39 PM  
Blanco, I think I already covererd all you said by saying 'due to regs'.
 
2012-03-14 02:21:31 PM  
Speaking of handicapped spaces, anyone else notice Walmarts changing the layout of handicapped spaces (as to where there were 3 or so 'traditional' spaces) they have one "sideways" space now? Kind of pointless, if you ask me.
 
2012-03-14 02:23:11 PM  
FTA: Indeed, one problem with parking spaces is that we seem to have too many of them.

That's definitely the problem I have when parking in the Boston/Cambridge area...
 
2012-03-14 02:25:28 PM  
Does it involve extreme heat and pressure? Sand?
 
2012-03-14 02:30:20 PM  

SurfaceTension: I live in DC

No you don't.

3-train ride back to my car (red->yellow->blue->franconia/springfield) can be brutal.
 
2012-03-14 02:31:30 PM  

This text is now purple: Well of course it is. You already said "Gehry."


I snickered 'cuz I am looking at a Gehry building outside my window.
 
2012-03-14 02:33:56 PM  
This is probably the best known parking structure:

www.nybits.com

Wright is probably still chuckling about that one somewhere.

If you want people to remember your parking structure put up one of these.

www.inautonews.com

Probably a lot harder for the parking meth heads to smuggle a Ferrari California out for a joy ride from one of those.

www.thecoolist.com
 
2012-03-14 02:34:59 PM  

Any Pie Left: Blanco, I think I already covererd all you said by saying 'due to regs'.

I was all set to go on a rant about how ridiculous many of the design specifications can be when I realized I was actually putting my self to sleep with that tripe. As usual my engineer brain spits out four words to every one that is actually necessary to convey an idea. Brevity ftw.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-03-14 02:54:54 PM  
Handicap parking rules are a miniature version of the general parking rules Shoup criticizes. They're extrapolations of wild guesses with little relation to reality.
 
2012-03-14 02:56:03 PM  

moothemagiccow: SurfaceTension: I live in DC
No you don't.

3-train ride back to my car (red->yellow->blue->franconia/springfield) can be brutal.


Oh, please...The Greater Washington, D.C. Metro Area is a helluva lot harder to type than DC. And it isn't one of those great, all-important life-or-death matters anyway.
 
2012-03-14 02:56:05 PM  

SurfaceTension: FTFA: Among other effects, plentiful and cheap parking keeps urban areas locked into a car dependency with social, economic and aesthetic drawbacks.

Yes, because cutting back on infrastructure used by automobiles has proven soooooo successful at getting people off the road in the past.

/*rolls eyes*
//people are gonna drive, stop trying to pretend otherwise and deal with it


Perhaps the densest post I've read today.

1, What you say is completely wrong.
2. Building bigger/faster roads to alleviate traffic ends up doing exactly the opposite. Make room for more cars, more people drive more cars more often. Traffic increases.
 
2012-03-14 03:06:20 PM  
All right I'll say it, I hate having trees in parking lots. The design committee always picks a pretty tree that will shed plant debris all over the cars below. If not then the damn nesting birds will crap all over the cars. The spaces need to be large enough to deal with trucks and the thing almost every lot misses is a safe walk way to let people get from their cars to the building without playing dodge the car. The one thing I will agree with is a solar collector that doubles as a sun shade, that is a great idea, but it has to be large enough to keep the sun off of the car, probably the lines should be East West to make that easy. For an MIT guy he seems pretty slow, maybe he is Harvard or BC and enrolled in a special ed class at MIT.
 
2012-03-14 03:07:47 PM  

robbiex0r: 2. Building bigger/faster roads to alleviate traffic ends up doing exactly the opposite. Make room for more cars, more people drive more cars more often. Traffic increases.


Lol what? Yeah, traffic increases on that road but it alleviates congestion from other roads along the same route. People don't go out and buy cars just because they know of some sweet road with no traffic.
 
2012-03-14 03:20:28 PM  
This book sounds absolutely retarded commentary about parking lots.

'Some lots have trees. People like trees'

BRILLIANT!
 
2012-03-14 03:31:41 PM  
I live next to one of the multiparkers in this city. It's farking nuts.

Multiparker (new window, Spanish, images of it)

/can only afford street parking
 
2012-03-14 03:34:09 PM  
what a parking lot designer might look like:

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-03-14 03:36:44 PM  

robbiex0r: SurfaceTension: FTFA: Among other effects, plentiful and cheap parking keeps urban areas locked into a car dependency with social, economic and aesthetic drawbacks.

Yes, because cutting back on infrastructure used by automobiles has proven soooooo successful at getting people off the road in the past.

/*rolls eyes*
//people are gonna drive, stop trying to pretend otherwise and deal with it

Perhaps the densest post I've read today.

1, What you say is completely wrong.
2. Building bigger/faster roads to alleviate traffic ends up doing exactly the opposite. Make room for more cars, more people drive more cars more often. Traffic increases.


People have been saying that here in the DC Greater Washington, DC-Northern Virginia-Maryland region for 30 years, and guess what...the farking cars are STILL HERE. Only to make matters worse, the density everyone said would work in places like Montgomery and Fairfax counties (the burbs "served" by Metro) makes it impossible to now build the roads to deal with the cars that ARE here, much less deal with the cars that are coming as the area population grows.

Believe me, I use what meager transit there is (and telework one day a week), but it is so ill-designed to be practically useless for much of the population.

Not to mention driving on the weekends is insane too.
 
2012-03-14 03:41:22 PM  

dragonfli: Speaking of handicapped spaces, anyone else notice Walmarts changing the layout of handicapped spaces (as to where there were 3 or so 'traditional' spaces) they have one "sideways" space now? Kind of pointless, if you ask me.


This is probably due to a relatively recent revision to the ABA/ADA codes that requires the first HC space to be "Van Accessible" which requires an additional 3' of total width between the parking space and the access aisle. It used to be all you needed was an 8' wide space and a 5' wide access aisle, the new code requires either an 11' wide space and 5' wide access aisle, OR an 8' wide space with an 8' wide access aisle.
 
2012-03-14 03:45:28 PM  

SurfaceTension: moothemagiccow: SurfaceTension: I live in DC
No you don't.

3-train ride back to my car (red->yellow->blue->franconia/springfield) can be brutal.

Oh, please...The Greater Washington, D.C. Metro Area is a helluva lot harder to type than DC. And it isn't one of those great, all-important life-or-death matters anyway.


If you live in Fairfax County be proud of it and say "I live in Fairfax County." If you live in Prince William or Spotsylvania, stick with "I live in DC."
 
2012-03-14 03:47:49 PM  

SurfaceTension: robbiex0r: SurfaceTension: FTFA: Among other effects, plentiful and cheap parking keeps urban areas locked into a car dependency with social, economic and aesthetic drawbacks.

Yes, because cutting back on infrastructure used by automobiles has proven soooooo successful at getting people off the road in the past.

/*rolls eyes*
//people are gonna drive, stop trying to pretend otherwise and deal with it

Perhaps the densest post I've read today.

1, What you say is completely wrong.
2. Building bigger/faster roads to alleviate traffic ends up doing exactly the opposite. Make room for more cars, more people drive more cars more often. Traffic increases.

People have been saying that here in the DC Greater Washington, DC-Northern Virginia-Maryland region for 30 years, and guess what...the farking cars are STILL HERE. Only to make matters worse, the density everyone said would work in places like Montgomery and Fairfax counties (the burbs "served" by Metro) makes it impossible to now build the roads to deal with the cars that ARE here, much less deal with the cars that are coming as the area population grows.

Believe me, I use what meager transit there is (and telework one day a week), but it is so ill-designed to be practically useless for much of the population.

Not to mention driving on the weekends is insane too.


And you honestly believe that building roads/parking lots to facilitate MORE driving is going to solve the problem?
 
2012-03-14 03:48:56 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: robbiex0r: 2. Building bigger/faster roads to alleviate traffic ends up doing exactly the opposite. Make room for more cars, more people drive more cars more often. Traffic increases.

Lol what? Yeah, traffic increases on that road but it alleviates congestion from other roads along the same route. People don't go out and buy cars just because they know of some sweet road with no traffic.


That is not the way it works, stop being obtuse.
 
2012-03-14 03:51:39 PM  
Well, that was a stupid nonarticle. "There should be better parking lots, but I have goose egg when it comes to ideas on how to create them."

Um, good for you?
 
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