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(CBC)   After firing coach Ron Wilson and hiring Randy Carlyle, the Toronto Maple Leafs are on a tear. Just kidding, they are 1-5 since the new coach and are 10 points out from a playoff spot   (cbc.ca) divider line 51
    More: Obvious, Maple Leafs, Randy Carlyle, Mikhail Grabovski, Southeast Division, Mikael Samuelsson, Sean Bergenheim, Luke Schenn, Jose Theodore  
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148 clicks; posted to Sports » on 14 Mar 2012 at 8:29 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-14 07:06:56 AM
And this surprises who, exactly?
 
2012-03-14 08:33:05 AM

gopher321: And this surprises who, exactly?

 
2012-03-14 08:44:43 AM
Tank Nation!

We're just hoping for the first top 5 pick in a long time.

We're going to forget the fact that Schenn was drafted 5th overall...ok?
 
2012-03-14 08:47:38 AM
Golf Leafs Golf!
 
2012-03-14 08:49:39 AM
Too bad the Cup isn't awarded in October.
 
2012-03-14 08:50:28 AM
When the leafs were first in the league in points and phil kessel had something like 8 goals in 5 games at the start of the year, I made two bets.

Kessel scores
Toronto still misses the playoffs.



*snicker*
 
2012-03-14 08:51:34 AM

poisonedpawn78:
Kessel scores less than 41 goals




FTFM
 
2012-03-14 09:02:26 AM
Washington, Tampa, and Florida all won last night.

Last night sucked for me as a fan of the Sabres (who, unlike the Leafs, are on a tear and do have a chance of sneaking in).
 
2012-03-14 09:04:24 AM
Looks good on the Toronto fans and media who were calling for Wilsons head. Just goes to show that you can't make lemonade out of shiat.
 
2012-03-14 09:08:56 AM
The only bright spot for the Leafs is Carter Ashton. Yea there were a couple of costly penalties last night, but he seemes to be about the only one buying in to the Carlyle program.
Hey the Marlies are in the playoffs.
 
2012-03-14 09:11:54 AM

DrSieb: Tank Nation!


I came up with an idea on hfboards once about how to make the end of the season count for something for cellar teams and simultaneously exciting for the fans. Because the last 10 games or so are always a writeoff for nearly half the league and that's bad for business.

The problem is that as soon as teams are eliminated from the playoffs, they have no further reason to try and win (other than they want to keep their jobs). But fans want them to lose so they can improve for next year. The NHL wants all 82 games of every team to be important. So there needs to be a new mechanism to make every game count toward something. How to do this?

Howabout introducing a new stat that I call the PAE stat: Points After Elimination. As soon as a team is mathematically eliminated, every game they play thereafter counts toward the PAE stat (since regular points don't mean anything anymore). The team that finishes first in the PAE stat gets the first overall pick in the draft. This way high draft picks must be earned, but only after a team has been eliminated from the playoffs first. No lottery -- teams are sorted by their PAE standings. Teams that have no PAE stats use their regular point standings, and are sorted with all the playoff teams accordingly.

Why this system works: The worst teams are going to be eligible for PAE accumulation first (some of them may even have up to 15-20 games to accrue PAE), but winning is the key to good draft position, not losing (and if they're losing so much they're out of the playoffs with 20 games to go it's not that much of an advantage anyway). Teams that are fighting for playoff spots until the bitter end won't have many games to accrue PAE and that's perfectly fine. The emphasis here is to make every game important whether you're fighting for a playoff spot or a draft pick.

I can see a few cons with this system -- for instance, if a team wants to game the season and lose purposely in January and February so they can enter PAE territory early, but I seriously can't see any team legitimately doing that. Entire teams/managements would clean house if they even thought about packing it in 40 games into the season.

Another con is that teams out of contention tend to bring up their prospects and AHL affiliates to give them some pro experience and make the rest of the season a teaching exercise. They won't do this if there's something worth fighting for under the PAE system, which might hurt player depth and experience (but then again, what kind of depth could the bottom feeding teams possibly have).

And it would probably result in less fire sales at trading deadlines if losing teams still have something to play for. They would rather keep their franchise players in order to win the PAE standings than sell them off for used puck bags.

But the pros far outweigh the cons. Instead of shutting down and coasting, Edmonton, Columbus and Montreal would still hustle in every game because they would all be working hard to win the Yakupov sweepstakes, and fans in all cities would still be interested because there's a new stat metric that they can look at every day that their team has a reasonable chance of winning.

Thoughts?
 
2012-03-14 09:23:51 AM
Tanking is a myth.

Players and coaches never play to lose. They have more self-respect than that. A GM may call up prospects and not ice the best possible line-up, but I don't consider that tanking, since playing prospects serves an important developmental purposes.

Teams don't intentionally tank. Bad teams lose a lot at the end of the season for the same reason that they lost early in the season. Because they suck.
 
2012-03-14 09:29:01 AM

Ishkur: [...]Another con is that teams out of contention tend to bring up their prospects and AHL affiliates to give them some pro experience and make the rest of the season a teaching exercise. They won't do this if there's something worth fighting for under the PAE system, which might hurt player depth and experience (but then again, what kind of depth could the bottom feeding teams possibly have)[...].
Thoughts?


The four call-up rule after the trade deadline has already restricted this point anyway. I kinda like this plan of yours.
The problem I see is the whole point of the current scheme is ultimately parity, which is good for the NHL as a whole, and by favouring the best of the worst, the actually worst is left wallowing in the basement. How about giving the first overall to your system then back to a lottery for the next four and standings for the balance.
 
2012-03-14 09:41:45 AM
I wish I could enjoy a little schadenfreude at the expense of our friends in Toronto, but I just can't bring myself to do it considering how shiatty the Bruins have been playing since... well, since January.

Looks like it might be one and done for them this year if things don't turn around soon... Too many injuries, too little fight.

Not that upset about it, though. After last year, I told myself I wasn't going to get greedy. Since I was a teenager, I've been saying I just want to see the Bruins win the Cup once before I'm too old to enjoy it and I did. So...

Oh, what the hell...

Thank You, Kessel!
Let's Go, Bruins!
 
2012-03-14 09:49:55 AM

Ishkur: Howabout introducing a new stat that I call the PAE stat: Points After Elimination. As soon as a team is mathematically eliminated, every game they play thereafter counts toward the PAE stat


Mathematical elimination, even for the worst team in the conference only happens at about game 74 or so.

Even the Leafs won't be mathematically eliminated until about game 77.

How does your PAE stat apply when teams don't play the same number of games after being eliminated?
 
2012-03-14 09:53:24 AM
Leafs blowing at least have given us Leafs Beefs (NSFW language).
 
2012-03-14 10:00:31 AM
Another problem with "PAE" is that we already have Pts, W, L, OTL, and ROW.

The last thing the NHL needs is to add yet another column to the standings that means something.

IMO, they need to go back in the other direction and simplify. W-L-T was good enough for decades. It would be good enough now. The NHL should never have bought into this idea that there's something inherently wrong with ties, but they did, and as a result the point system and the standings are a complete clusterfark.
 
2012-03-14 10:09:45 AM
Panthers finally score some goals. Got to keep getting the 2 points. The way Boston's been playing, if the Panthers can put together a little winning streak (Hint to Florida: That means more than 2 wins in a row), they could actually grab the 2nd spot. However, being a Panthers fan, I am not holding my breath.

Of course, you can never count on the Isle for anything. I mean, really. Up 4-1, and lose 5-4 in a shootout??

At least they shut up the obnoxious Leafs fans here in South Florida. I cannot express how happy I was after the Leafs fans exited the game after Bergy's goal ("one hit wonder", huh, Mike Milbury??)
 
2012-03-14 10:11:13 AM

Doc Daneeka: IMO, they need to go back in the other direction and simplify. W-L-T was good enough for decades. It would be good enough now. The NHL should never have bought into this idea that there's something inherently wrong with ties, but they did, and as a result the point system and the standings are a complete clusterfark.


100%, unequivocally, this.

My Calgary Flames are in a three-way tie for eighth spot in the West. With the multitude of tie-breaker rules, I have no idea where they stand with Phoenix, San Jose, and Colorado.

The other frustrating thing is as the race tightens even more, games tied in the third period make me extra anxious. Last night's OT win over San Jose still netted San Jose a point and kept them right there with us in the standings.

If a game goes to a shootout, we might as well have lost in OT, since the tie-breaker will deduct the extra shootout points. It's utterly maddening.


Naturally, I have to blame someone for this and I blame Brian Burke. He was the one talking about how "shootouts are coming" and I have no doubt he was a vocal proponent of the shootout.

I also hated his comments the other day from the GMs meeting about no-touch icing and how the European game "looks terrible, the puck gets iced and everyone stands around for the whistle". Well asshole, how about this:

- that eliminates horrific injuries sustained on icing races
- every icing isn't a race, there's plenty of times that NHL players stand around and wait for the whistle.

To sum, f*ck Brian Burke and his f*cking shootouts.
 
2012-03-14 10:12:42 AM

keylock71: I wish I could enjoy a little schadenfreude at the expense of our friends in Toronto, but I just can't bring myself to do it considering how shiatty the Bruins have been playing since... well, since January.

Looks like it might be one and done for them this year if things don't turn around soon... Too many injuries, too little fight.

Not that upset about it, though. After last year, I told myself I wasn't going to get greedy. Since I was a teenager, I've been saying I just want to see the Bruins win the Cup once before I'm too old to enjoy it and I did. So...

Oh, what the hell...

Thank You, Kessel!
Let's Go, Bruins!



I had some event I had to go to so thankfully I didn't have to witness that complete shiatshow last night. I stepped outside to have a smoke and looked at the score on my phone. 4-0. End of the 1st. Fark.

This reminds me of that stretch either last year or the year before when they had the record losing streak. Give up multiple goals early, and try to play catch up with an anemic offense.

Thankfully, my GF had such a good time at the last Bruins/Panthers game, I bought us tickets in the corner on the glass for tomorrow night's game. My excuse is that I bought them a few weeks ago.

I'm not exactly looking forward to the game nonetheless.
 
2012-03-14 10:12:52 AM

Kellner21: Of course, you can never count on the Isle for anything. I mean, really. Up 4-1, and lose 5-4 in a shootout??


Heh, it was wonderful.
 
2012-03-14 10:13:40 AM

Doc Daneeka: Another problem with "PAE" is that we already have Pts, W, L, OTL, and ROW.

The last thing the NHL needs is to add yet another column to the standings that means something.

IMO, they need to go back in the other direction and simplify. W-L-T was good enough for decades. It would be good enough now. The NHL should never have bought into this idea that there's something inherently wrong with ties, but they did, and as a result the point system and the standings are a complete clusterfark.


Isn't that the reasoning for all of these extra points for OT and SO losses? So as many teams as possible have a shot at a playoff spot for as long as possible?

I always figured the 3pt win, 2pt ot win and 1pt so win would be better. When a 3 game win streak could mean a 9 point swing then anything could happen in the final 5 games.

/go flames.
 
2012-03-14 10:16:19 AM
Why at the beginning of every period in Toronto are the front 5-10 rows behind the bench empty?

I thought candians liked hockey
 
2012-03-14 10:21:56 AM

keylock71: I wish I could enjoy a little schadenfreude at the expense of our friends in Toronto, but I just can't bring myself to do it considering how shiatty the Bruins have been playing since... well, since January.


I would like to say that it was the Canucks that stopped the Bruins streak cold, and it's not the first time that's happened this season. The Hawks, Sharks, Predators and of course the Red Wings all had really healthy streaks going at one point, until they met the Canucks and the streaks just stopped dead. And some of them haven't recovered since.

But with Boston, I don't think its the Canucks game that turned their season south. I think it was Tim Thomas stiffing the President..... but in doing so he stiffed up his teammates instead.
 
2012-03-14 10:25:03 AM

fatalvenom: I had some event I had to go to so thankfully I didn't have to witness that complete shiatshow last night. I stepped outside to have a smoke and looked at the score on my phone. 4-0. End of the 1st. Fark.

This reminds me of that stretch either last year or the year before when they had the record losing streak. Give up multiple goals early, and try to play catch up with an anemic offense.

Thankfully, my GF had such a good time at the last Bruins/Panthers game, I bought us tickets in the corner on the glass for tomorrow night's game. My excuse is that I bought them a few weeks ago.

I'm not exactly looking forward to the game nonetheless.


Wasn't even five minutes into the game and they were down 3-0... I sat through the whole thing, too flipping between NESN and NBC Sports. Mostly because I was stoned off my gourd and there was nothing else on. : )
 
2012-03-14 10:25:05 AM

Rev.K: How does your PAE stat apply when teams don't play the same number of games after being eliminated?


That's the beauty of it. The last place team has the advantage of PAE eligibility first. So Columbus might have 9 or 10 games to accumulate PAE points while Toronto only has maybe 5 or 6, as they should be because they're a worse team.

But I do agree with your assessment that maybe it might not be a worthy thing to record considering most teams only have a handful of games to make it. It was just a thought experiment.
 
2012-03-14 10:26:14 AM

Ishkur: keylock71: I wish I could enjoy a little schadenfreude at the expense of our friends in Toronto, but I just can't bring myself to do it considering how shiatty the Bruins have been playing since... well, since January.

I would like to say that it was the Canucks that stopped the Bruins streak cold, and it's not the first time that's happened this season. The Hawks, Sharks, Predators and of course the Red Wings all had really healthy streaks going at one point, until they met the Canucks and the streaks just stopped dead. And some of them haven't recovered since.

But with Boston, I don't think its the Canucks game that turned their season south. I think it was Tim Thomas stiffing the President..... but in doing so he stiffed up his teammates instead.


Many people said the same thing about the Thomas situation at that time and I agreed.

Just another reason for me to hate teabaggers.
 
2012-03-14 10:27:23 AM

Doc Daneeka: Another problem with "PAE" is that we already have Pts, W, L, OTL, and ROW.
The last thing the NHL needs is to add yet another column to the standings that means something.


PAE is just regular points, since after a team is mathematically eliminated the points don't mean anything anymore.

So they're sorted into a new table with their remaining games, and new teams join them as the season systematically eliminates them.
 
2012-03-14 10:27:45 AM

MugzyBrown: Why at the beginning of every period in Toronto are the front 5-10 rows behind the bench empty?

I thought candians liked hockey


We do, However the first 5-10 rows in the ACC are owned by a bunch of rich dickwads in 1000 dollar suits who spend most of their time in VIP sushi bars watching the stock ticker. It's like Lakers games reversed, celebs get tickets to be seen in LA while in Toronto bankers buy tickets to sit in private restaurants.
 
2012-03-14 10:40:54 AM

Ishkur: keylock71: I wish I could enjoy a little schadenfreude at the expense of our friends in Toronto, but I just can't bring myself to do it considering how shiatty the Bruins have been playing since... well, since January.

I would like to say that it was the Canucks that stopped the Bruins streak cold, and it's not the first time that's happened this season. The Hawks, Sharks, Predators and of course the Red Wings all had really healthy streaks going at one point, until they met the Canucks and the streaks just stopped dead. And some of them haven't recovered since.

But with Boston, I don't think its the Canucks game that turned their season south. I think it was Tim Thomas stiffing the President..... but in doing so he stiffed up his teammates instead.


Eh... I think it's mostly due to injuries to key players, myself. Everybody was crowing about the depth of the Bruins earlier in the season, but when it came time to demonstrate it, they weren't able to. Caron's come along nicely, but I really haven't been impressed with the depth.

I'm sure the Thomas distraction didn't help, but from most accounts, the team has been well aware of Thomas' political views for some time.
 
2012-03-14 10:45:24 AM

keylock71:
I'm sure the Thomas distraction didn't help, but from most accounts, the team has been well aware of Thomas' political views for some time.


Yeah, but he wasn't making them public and turning the media focus onto himself when the team was visiting the White House. That may have pissed a few people off.
 
2012-03-14 10:53:26 AM

Ishkur: Doc Daneeka: Another problem with "PAE" is that we already have Pts, W, L, OTL, and ROW.
The last thing the NHL needs is to add yet another column to the standings that means something.

PAE is just regular points, since after a team is mathematically eliminated the points don't mean anything anymore.

So they're sorted into a new table with their remaining games, and new teams join them as the season systematically eliminates them.


Your concept is interesting, but how do you go about determining mathematical elimination? Suppose Toronto (for example) gets mathematically eliminated by another team's win while they're on the ice, does somebody have a clock that says "Game Y ended at 10:32 EDT, Toronto's game ended at 10:37 EDT, so therefore Toronto gets PAE tonight"?
 
2012-03-14 10:55:35 AM

buckeyebrain: Ishkur: Doc Daneeka: Another problem with "PAE" is that we already have Pts, W, L, OTL, and ROW.
The last thing the NHL needs is to add yet another column to the standings that means something.

PAE is just regular points, since after a team is mathematically eliminated the points don't mean anything anymore.

So they're sorted into a new table with their remaining games, and new teams join them as the season systematically eliminates them.

Your concept is interesting, but how do you go about determining mathematical elimination? Suppose Toronto (for example) gets mathematically eliminated by another team's win while they're on the ice, does somebody have a clock that says "Game Y ended at 10:32 EDT, Toronto's game ended at 10:37 EDT, so therefore Toronto gets PAE tonight"?


Another thought:

....which then tells me that Western teams (or teams that happen to have a West Coast swing at the end of the season) have a bit of an advantage.
 
2012-03-14 10:56:06 AM

Flappyhead: Yeah, but he wasn't making them public and turning the media focus onto himself when the team was visiting the White House. That may have pissed a few people off.



When Shawn Thornton did his weekly radio spot when this was at full-burn, you could tell by his response to questions about it that he and his other teammates weren't exactly thrilled about Tim not making the trip.
 
2012-03-14 10:56:40 AM
When are Leafs fans going to finally be fed up enough to tell ownership to fix things or they'll stop buying tickets?
 
2012-03-14 10:59:25 AM

UNC_Samurai: When are Leafs fans going to finally be fed up enough to tell ownership to fix things or they'll stop buying tickets?


If actual Leafs fans had control of seasons tickets you'd have a point.
 
2012-03-14 11:01:15 AM

fatalvenom: Flappyhead: Yeah, but he wasn't making them public and turning the media focus onto himself when the team was visiting the White House. That may have pissed a few people off.


When Shawn Thornton did his weekly radio spot when this was at full-burn, you could tell by his response to questions about it that he and his other teammates weren't exactly thrilled about Tim not making the trip.


No doubt... Extremely selfish move on Thomas' part. The worst part was he wouldn't answer questions on it, so his team mates got stuck with the questions, as well.
 
2012-03-14 11:15:40 AM
1-5 is a on a tear for the leafs, just so you know subby
 
2012-03-14 11:18:34 AM

MugzyBrown: Why at the beginning of every period in Toronto are the front 5-10 rows behind the bench empty?

I thought candians liked hockey


Because the rich, corporate clowns who can afford those seats are still swilling their scotch and eating their sushi. They don't let you go to your seat while the play is on, you have to wait for a whistle.

Don't confuse the people who sit in the platinum seats with actual Leaf fans.
 
2012-03-14 11:21:21 AM

Mr.Tangent: Looks good on the Toronto fans and media who were calling for Wilsons head. Just goes to show that you can't make lemonade out of shiat.


The team is shiatty but that doesn't change the fact that Ron Wilson is a terrible coach.
 
2012-03-14 11:23:19 AM

keylock71: fatalvenom: Flappyhead: Yeah, but he wasn't making them public and turning the media focus onto himself when the team was visiting the White House. That may have pissed a few people off.


When Shawn Thornton did his weekly radio spot when this was at full-burn, you could tell by his response to questions about it that he and his other teammates weren't exactly thrilled about Tim not making the trip.

No doubt... Extremely selfish move on Thomas' part. The worst part was he wouldn't answer questions on it, so his team mates got stuck with the questions, as well.


Honestly I think not answering questions about his comments is more damaging then making them. Like you said, it left his team holding the bag but it also gave himself carte blanche to make more, which he did when he posted his abortion/birth control comment on his Facebook page.
 
2012-03-14 11:23:59 AM

keylock71: Eh... I think it's mostly due to injuries to key players, myself. Everybody was crowing about the depth of the Bruins earlier in the season, but when it came time to demonstrate it, they weren't able to. Caron's come along nicely, but I really haven't been impressed with the depth.


I think a lot of Boston's pluggers were playing over their heads too. Boston fans/media often liked to crow about the fact that they have no marquee players and four scoring lines. Well, no marquee players mean no dependable scoring threat. Did you seriously think for awhile that you had that many 30+ goal scorers on the team? They had a hot streak, like getting a card rush in poker, but now things are returning to statistical equilibrium. Boston's good, but they're not THAT good.

It's like when the Leafs stormed out of the gates and led the league in November... you know why? Because Kessel, MacArthur, Grabovski and Lupul were all on pace for 35-40 goals at that point. Did anyone outside of Leafs fans reasonably think they were going to keep up that pace? ...they're not THAT good.
 
2012-03-14 11:52:42 AM

buckeyebrain: Your concept is interesting, but how do you go about determining mathematical elimination? Suppose Toronto (for example) gets mathematically eliminated by another team's win while they're on the ice, does somebody have a clock that says "Game Y ended at 10:32 EDT, Toronto's game ended at 10:37 EDT, so therefore Toronto gets PAE tonight"?


A conditional check is made at 9:00am every morning (when there's no hockey). If the team is mathematically eliminated at that hour, they are eligible for PAE. If not, then they keep playing until they are. Nightly games can not affect PAE eligibility in real time (too many extraneous factors, time zones, etc.).
 
2012-03-14 11:53:35 AM
Is it just me, or does it look like Turco filled his goalie pants with a big load a shiat last night?

www.boston.com
 
2012-03-14 12:18:19 PM

fatalvenom: Is it just me, or does it look like Turco filled his goalie pants with a big load a shiat last night?

[www.boston.com image 580x385]


Heh... It's a distinct possibility considering the way he played.
 
2012-03-14 12:23:13 PM

keylock71: fatalvenom: Is it just me, or does it look like Turco filled his goalie pants with a big load a shiat last night?

[www.boston.com image 580x385]

Heh... It's a distinct possibility considering the way he played.



Haha...I just noticed this. Check out the B's fan directly to the right of Turco's head.

He's obviously telling Turco to "GTFO"
 
2012-03-14 12:32:08 PM

fatalvenom: Is it just me, or does it look like Turco filled his goalie pants with a big load a shiat last night?

[www.boston.com image 580x385]


This was pointed out on Uni Watch a couple of days ago. He's still using his Stars gear.
 
2012-03-14 12:32:56 PM

fatalvenom: Haha...I just noticed this. Check out the B's fan directly to the right of Turco's head.

He's obviously telling Turco to "GTFO"


Nice... Yep. That's an emphatic "GTFO" if I've ever seen one.
 
2012-03-14 07:17:57 PM
Oldie but a goodie
a2.myastralmediaradio.com
 
2012-03-14 08:26:48 PM
Ah, the Maple leafs. Hockey's biggest source of amusement to fans of other teams.
 
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