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(Mirror.co.uk)   Nanny State has CCTV cameras installed at gas stations that will automatically stop the pump if an uninsured car tries to fill up   (mirror.co.uk) divider line 244
    More: Interesting, CCTV cameras, gas stations, DVLA  
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10455 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2012 at 12:11 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-14 12:46:05 AM
It makes sense to encourage people to make more responsible decisions. I'd like to see this expanded to so-called 'deadbeat dads'. If the database sees you owe money, the price of fuel is doubled or tripled and the excess is paid back to your ex at tax time. Sometimes people need a nudge to do the right thing.
 
2012-03-14 12:46:11 AM
I never would have imagined that Mad Max was really just a prescient documentary.
 
2012-03-14 12:46:22 AM

one of Ripley's Bad Guys: FTA:One in 25 drivers in the UK do not have insurance - one of the worst records in western Europe.


Most states would be glad to get down to 8%, let alone 4%.
 
2012-03-14 12:47:26 AM

Kurmudgeon: That's sure going to make it tricky filling up a gas can for the lawn mower.


I was thinking the same thing. What if you run out of gas and have to hike to the station to fill your can? Are they just going to turn you away if you forget to bring proof of insurance?
 
2012-03-14 12:48:25 AM

CujoQuarrel: There is no way I would live in that country.

And we must work to keep America from turning into that.


Turning into?

*snort*

The US leads the way in this shiat, they just don't have the coolest technology. Deny you gas? No, we'll taze the bejesus out of you instead.
 
2012-03-14 12:48:28 AM
Why is this closed circuit? Everyone should be able to enjoy this potental comedy gold!
 
2012-03-14 12:48:38 AM
profile.ak.fbcdn.net
 
2012-03-14 12:50:15 AM

gweilo8888: CujoQuarrel: There is no way I would live in that country.

And we must work to keep America from turning into that.

Turning into?

*snort*

The US leads the way in this shiat, they just don't have the coolest technology. Deny you gas? No, we'll taze the bejesus out of you instead.


But I enjoy that part.......
 
2012-03-14 12:51:22 AM
That's it, folks, Just keep giving away your freedoms in silence.

Don't think for one second this won't be tried here in the States. Only a matter of time.
 
2012-03-14 12:52:12 AM

CujoQuarrel: gweilo8888: CujoQuarrel: There is no way I would live in that country.

And we must work to keep America from turning into that.

Turning into?

*snort*

The US leads the way in this shiat, they just don't have the coolest technology. Deny you gas? No, we'll taze the bejesus out of you instead.

But I enjoy that part.......


Yeah... Sure, we'll let you fill up your tank, IF you can make it through our gauntlet of tazers!
 
2012-03-14 12:54:55 AM
So...either people will evade this new obstacle, or there will be more abandoned cars on the road. Yeah, sounds about right for a "good" governmental idea.
 
2012-03-14 12:55:24 AM

Ken VeryBigLiar: one of Ripley's Bad Guys: FTA:One in 25 drivers in the UK do not have insurance - one of the worst records in western Europe.

Most states would be glad to get down to 8%, let alone 4%.


A little research on Google shows that 1 out of 7 U.S. motorists are uninsured. The two states with the highest rates of uninsured are Mississippi (28%) and New Mexico (26%)
 
2012-03-14 12:57:07 AM

Animatronik: Beats having a drone take out the offending vehicle.

Whoo-hoo, Im getting all nostalgic for thr 20th century.


Oo, I like that idea better!
 
2012-03-14 12:57:32 AM
I am insured no matter what car I drive. My car is in the shop and I had to borrow a friend's car...

Bet the camera screws that up.

Expired tabs are a whole other story.
 
2012-03-14 12:58:46 AM

Surool: I am insured no matter what car I drive. My car is in the shop and I had to borrow a friend's car...

Bet the camera screws that up.

Expired tabs are a whole other story.


Music tab feels your pain...
 
2012-03-14 12:59:51 AM
1984 was written about England

/Just a reminder
//across the pond the US is worse and Canada is not far behind
/// 1984 was 10 years ago
 
2012-03-14 01:01:45 AM
What would have happened if they tried this 20, 30, 50 years ago?
 
2012-03-14 01:02:48 AM

Kurmudgeon: That's sure going to make it tricky filling up a gas can for the lawn mower.


Not if it is insured, and taxes paid. I guess they won't be selling electric cars in Britain.
 
2012-03-14 01:04:16 AM

cmb53208: Ken VeryBigLiar: one of Ripley's Bad Guys: FTA:One in 25 drivers in the UK do not have insurance - one of the worst records in western Europe.

Most states would be glad to get down to 8%, let alone 4%.

A little research on Google shows that 1 out of 7 U.S. motorists are uninsured. The two states with the highest rates of uninsured are Mississippi (28%) and New Mexico (26%)


I thought it was in poor taste to say they'd "kill" for single digits. Then again the uninsured idiots out there were great tools to motivate people to get Personal Liability Umbrellas when I worked in Personal Lines...
 
2012-03-14 01:04:41 AM

Sgygus: Insurance should be paid for by the gallon, at the pump.

/a good old idea that never seems to go anywhere




A good idea if you're trying to generate more insurance fraud.
 
2012-03-14 01:07:45 AM

Kraftwerk Orange: [i55.tinypic.com image 379x214]


www.dallasdancemusic.com
 
2012-03-14 01:08:37 AM

davidphogan: I worked at a gas station. The owners would make us pay when someone drove off after filling up, but we weren't allowed to change the rules to require customers to pay first.

If the owners are still allowed to charge me for $30 cause some asshole drive off with a tank of gas and I couldn't stop them (I wasn't allowed to try) I'm okay with this. That or go with the easy answer, and require people pre-pay?


1. If it reduced your pay below minimum wage they can't- Federal law- and in California this is illegal no matter what your wage is. In other States it depends on the laws
 
2012-03-14 01:08:59 AM

Little.Alex: Sgygus: Insurance should be paid for by the gallon, at the pump.

/a good old idea that never seems to go anywhere



A good idea if you're trying to generate more insurance fraud.


No its a really good idea, pay $10 for a gallon of gas, get instant insurance, drive car out of station and into your brother in laws van full of family members.....everyone sues.....Profit.
 
2012-03-14 01:11:22 AM

tankjr: Kraftwerk Orange: [i55.tinypic.com image 379x214]

[www.dallasdancemusic.com image 180x135]


We thank you for your insightful and well-reasoned argument, but it is a school day tomorrow and you shouldn't be up this late.
 
2012-03-14 01:15:33 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: CujoQuarrel: gweilo8888: CujoQuarrel: There is no way I would live in that country.

And we must work to keep America from turning into that.

Turning into?

*snort*

The US leads the way in this shiat, they just don't have the coolest technology. Deny you gas? No, we'll taze the bejesus out of you instead.

But I enjoy that part.......

Yeah... Sure, we'll let you fill up your tank, IF you can make it through our gauntlet of tazers!


Ohhh Ohhhh. Me first me first .............
 
2012-03-14 01:17:48 AM
These boxes must be really tough. Around here they'd end up meeting Mr Sledgehammer.
 
2012-03-14 01:17:53 AM
So it's like waiting on the lotto/scratch off people.
 
2012-03-14 01:25:01 AM

gweilo8888: You know, I was about to say I was all for this... until I actually thought about it for ten seconds.

* You're out driving in BFE, and have accidentally let your insurance lapse yesterday. Insurance company didn't get you on the phone with a reminder yet. You let the tank run down because you know you can grab some later, pull into the station in a bad neighborhood and... no gas. You gon' get beaten and raped because you had to walk home through the bad neighborhood, all because you went a day over on the insurance. (OK, maybe the cut off isn't a day, but the point is, there is a cutoff somewhere and that cutoff decision is made by a computer that is unaware of individual circumstance, not to mention prone to error.)

* You don't renew your insurance or tags, because you don't actually drive your car any more. (Maybe you're elderly.) Then your loved one has a medical emergency and... oh shiat, the phone's out of battery. You get on the road to take them to hospital yourself, and the car runs out of gas. There's a gas station, but it's closed and you're blocked from getting gas at the pump. Your loved one slowly dies in the car while you walk to the nearest neighborhood and start banging on doors.

This rule, frankly, is idiotic because it has no get-out clause, and no nuance. Scan tags and pull over cars that are driving without insurance. Do NOT deny people the ability to get out of an emergency situation, especially when we all know damned well that somebody who really does have insurance will also be prevented from getting gas due to a typo / other clerical error.


Ok, now let us pretend that the ridiculous hypotheticals you have presented actually ever happen.

Compare to the figures in the article: "around 160 people are killed and 23,000 injured by uninsured and untraced drivers every year."

Are you seriously suggesting that your scenarios (or similar) would happen 23,000 times a year? Or even 160?

Yes I am aware even if this system was in every servo in the UK it wouldn't completely eliminate the above, but it would still prevent more injuries and deaths than cause inconvenient anomalies of circumstance.
 
2012-03-14 01:28:00 AM
I'm watching you, naughty boy....

t0.gstatic.com

//lawn... stay off
 
2012-03-14 01:29:10 AM

davidphogan: readbot42: woah, so I could all like, pull up to a gas pump with a tanker truck, get a few thousands gallons, drive off, and the attendant would have to pay?? WTF, that's SCTV kinda shaite. ;-)

I had an RV drive off on me and had to pay something like $90, and at that time gas was about $1.20/gallon. It was farking bullshiat.

~
WOAH! $90 at $1.20/gallon??

Imagine if it was $90 at $1.50/gallon.
 
2012-03-14 01:36:41 AM

Big Ramifications: davidphogan: readbot42: woah, so I could all like, pull up to a gas pump with a tanker truck, get a few thousands gallons, drive off, and the attendant would have to pay?? WTF, that's SCTV kinda shaite. ;-)

I had an RV drive off on me and had to pay something like $90, and at that time gas was about $1.20/gallon. It was farking bullshiat.
~
WOAH! $90 at $1.20/gallon??

Imagine if it was $90 at $1.50/gallon.


I LOL at that one, but to be fair to him, when gas was $1.20/gallon, $90 was worth more than it is today.

Also, when I was stationed in England, I was amazed at what those people had to put up with. I would just shake my head and tell them their country needed a revolution.
 
2012-03-14 01:39:47 AM
Stick around, Amerika, it will happen here soon.

England is like a time machine, everything they do there now happens here later.

\\\ Sad.
 
2012-03-14 01:40:45 AM
images.wikia.com

i can see a black market for gas sold in pale blue shoe-boxes
 
2012-03-14 01:46:16 AM
The primary offensiveness of this is that it's pretty clearly an excuse to track the movements of people that have committed no crime without warrant or cause. Since they do that in the UK regardless, I suppose in context its no worse than being a surveillance state in the first place.
 
2012-03-14 01:57:37 AM

Sgygus: Insurance should be paid for by the gallon, at the pump.

/a good old idea that never seems to go anywhere


That's how it works in NZ. (new window)

Of course, we have an awful government-owned accidental personal injury insurance system that is one of the best-value and best-performing schemes in the world.

Never fear, the current right wing government is busy trying to privatise it.
 
2012-03-14 01:59:21 AM

lewismarktwo: 9beers: I like it. Keeping uninsured motorists off the road is a good thing.

Pretty soon they will cross reference the credit card with the list of insured drivers for the car. In Angland everyone who drives the car has to be listed on the insurance.


No, they don't. My insurance for the car I own lets me legally drive any car, as long as that car has it's own insurance. I don't have to be listed on that cars insurance.

Does mean the Police have to more or less trust us since we do not have to carry any insurance, registration, driving licence etc. If we are stopped the cops can ask our name and address and check that with the records but we don't have to show them anything.
 
2012-03-14 01:59:29 AM
You WILL buy insurance or you will not drive!


Man, why didn't I buy stock in insurance so many years ago? What more can you ask for? "I have the Government make sure you buy our product and we keep the profits". Insurance rules the world.

It's one thing to be forced to pay into a plan that you are definitely going to get a return in the end one way or another, such as (the idea) of Social Security and Medicare. (The idea because the reality is run by thieves.)

But it's another to be forced to buy insurance so somebody's company can profit, and choose to not cover someone for whatever reason they fathom.

We are already slaves.
 
2012-03-14 02:01:06 AM
Bring this to America!
 
2012-03-14 02:01:17 AM

CujoQuarrel: There is no way I would live in that country.

And we must work to keep America from turning into that.


Americans must carry their driving licence with them when they drive. That seems weird and Orwellian to us. Swings and roundabouts.
 
2012-03-14 02:06:47 AM

davidphogan: I worked at a gas station. The owners would make us pay when someone drove off after filling up, but we weren't allowed to change the rules to require customers to pay first.

If the owners are still allowed to charge me for $30 cause some asshole drive off with a tank of gas and I couldn't stop them (I wasn't allowed to try) I'm okay with this. That or go with the easy answer, and require people pre-pay?


davidphogan: readbot42: woah, so I could all like, pull up to a gas pump with a tanker truck, get a few thousands gallons, drive off, and the attendant would have to pay?? WTF, that's SCTV kinda shaite. ;-)

I had an RV drive off on me and had to pay something like $90, and at that time gas was about $1.20/gallon. It was farking bullshiat.


davidphogan: I'm sure not every company is that bad, but they refused to put up more cameras than their insurance required, refused to make people pay at the pump or prepay so incidents like that could happen, and other shenanigans I probably shouldn't specifically mention since I'm posting under my name.


I'm pretty sure I would have stole $40 worth of shiat every time I got docked $30. That shiat shouldn't be encouraged.

olddinosaur: England is like a time machine, everything they do there now happens here later.


Then you should probably pay more attention to what happened to her empire.
 
2012-03-14 02:11:14 AM

Stoker: You WILL buy insurance or you will not drive!

Man, why didn't I buy stock in insurance so many years ago? What more can you ask for? "I have the Government make sure you buy our product and we keep the profits". Insurance rules the world.

It's one thing to be forced to pay into a plan that you are definitely going to get a return in the end one way or another, such as (the idea) of Social Security and Medicare. (The idea because the reality is run by thieves.)

But it's another to be forced to buy insurance so somebody's company can profit, and choose to not cover someone for whatever reason they fathom.

We are already slaves.



You don't have to have insurance. You can put down a 250K GBP bond in place of insurance.

But you WILL make some provision in case you destroy someone else's property or life. You don't have to insure yourself or your vehicle, you MUST insure against harming others as a condition of road use.

I have no problem with this.
 
2012-03-14 02:12:40 AM

ArcadianRefugee: tankjr: Kraftwerk Orange: [i55.tinypic.com image 379x214]

[www.dallasdancemusic.com image 180x135]

We thank you for your insightful and well-reasoned argument, but it is a school day tomorrow and you shouldn't be up this late.


t.qkme.me
 
2012-03-14 02:17:35 AM

DssDevl: That's it, folks, Just keep giving away your freedoms in silence.


Just curious, what freedom is being given up here?
 
2012-03-14 02:17:38 AM

Jim_Callahan: The primary offensiveness of this is that it's pretty clearly an excuse to track the movements of people that have committed no crime without warrant or cause. Since they do that in the UK regardless, I suppose in context its no worse than being a surveillance state in the first place.


We don't have to carry any ID, licence etc when driving. Swings and roundabouts.

And there are nowhere near the number of cameras that some people think. There have been lots of high profile crimes where if they did have the CCTV people think they have they could have been solved in a heartbeat.

Think about it. Cameras can detect uninsured or untaxed cars instantly. (Happened to me once. I'd just bought a car and didn't have the paperwork to buy the tax. I went past a police car on a motorway and they instantly pulled out, pulled me over and said "Why haven't you got any tax?")
But 1 in 8 cars on the road are uninsured. So clearly they have not been detected by any cameras. So the "camera on every street" myth is obviously just that, a myth.
 
2012-03-14 02:20:01 AM

knbwhite: Big Ramifications: davidphogan: readbot42: woah, so I could all like, pull up to a gas pump with a tanker truck, get a few thousands gallons, drive off, and the attendant would have to pay?? WTF, that's SCTV kinda shaite. ;-)

I had an RV drive off on me and had to pay something like $90, and at that time gas was about $1.20/gallon. It was farking bullshiat.
~
WOAH! $90 at $1.20/gallon??

Imagine if it was $90 at $1.50/gallon.

I LOL at that one, but to be fair to him, when gas was $1.20/gallon, $90 was worth more than it is today.

Also, when I was stationed in England, I was amazed at what those people had to put up with. I would just shake my head and tell them their country needed a revolution.

~
Fair call. Hadn't considered that.

Everybody is a winner!
 
2012-03-14 02:20:26 AM
Gord, it's kinda sad that the Brits who so gallantly stood up against the Kaiser, and then the Nazis at such an enormous cost to safeguard freedom in the world are now so willing to roll over in the face of the actual realization of Orwell's nightmare without so much as a whimper.
 
2012-03-14 02:22:12 AM
This is a stupid idea. You know that all this is going to do is cause problems because the records aren't going to be updated in a timely fashion. So you are going to have people who have insurance not being able to get gas because either the insurance company farked up or the government farked up. Either that or you are going to have delays in the system that turn a 5 minute stop for gas into a 20 minute stop. I would hate to be the customer service phone monkey that has to field these calls all day. The officials that come up with this shiat never stop and think about this type of stuff.
 
2012-03-14 02:24:17 AM

Sgygus: Insurance should be paid for by the gallon, at the pump.

/a good old idea that never seems to go anywhere


That would actually be more fair to drivers, so we obviously can't have that.

What's next? having people pay for phone data by the byte?
 
2012-03-14 02:24:37 AM

taurusowner: This just goes to show, when you give the government the ability to do something, they eventually will do it. FTA "Currently the system is designed to deter motorists from driving off without paying for petrol." That's how they sold it to the public. That's how they got the system in place.

When deciding if any government power is just or not, don't evaluate it in terms of how it is supposed to be used, or the best case scenario. Instead, evaluate it based on how it will be used in the worst way by the worst people. Because it eventually will. Only once you've done that, and you still think the government needs that power, should you vote to give it to them.

"There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."


Newsletter, if you please. Thx
 
2012-03-14 02:24:58 AM
Wait a sec.

In CA you can't get gas without pre-paying by card or cash. What's a "drive-off" if you mandate pre-pay?

You must carry a record of insurance while driving unless stopped by a LEO.

Why not just mandate proof of insurance with the annual renewal and skip the cameras?
 
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