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(Gamma Squad)   The Dark Tower returns from the dead, Friendo   (gammasquad.uproxx.com) divider line 83
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4942 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 13 Mar 2012 at 12:56 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-13 04:42:11 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: FeedTheCollapse: AdmirableSnackbar: I was just saying that I find myself consistent with both artists as liked the entire Dark Tower series and I like all of Metallica's albums (St. Anger being the obvious exception).


Hey! I liked St. Anger.

Load and Re-Load are a different story....
 
2012-03-13 04:50:23 PM  

BigMevy: AdmirableSnackbar: FeedTheCollapse: AdmirableSnackbar: I was just saying that I find myself consistent with both artists as liked the entire Dark Tower series and I like all of Metallica's albums (St. Anger being the obvious exception).

Hey! I liked St. Anger.

Load and Re-Load are a different story....


Nothing on the studio release of St Anger is worth shiat, but the songs are reconfigured live with solos and without the ridiculous drums and are okay.
 
2012-03-13 04:51:56 PM  
At first I was like fark YOU STEPHEN KING! and then I realized this was about a movie, not him starting the story again. Then I was like AHHHHHHHHHHH COOL!
then I remembered how the book ended and again I was like fark YOU STEPHEN KING!


Just started reading one of his collections of short stories this morning. Man I love Stephen King. fark seriously, fark him.
 
2012-03-13 04:52:42 PM  

BigMevy: AdmirableSnackbar: FeedTheCollapse: AdmirableSnackbar: I was just saying that I find myself consistent with both artists as liked the entire Dark Tower series and I like all of Metallica's albums (St. Anger being the obvious exception).

Hey! I liked St. Anger.

Load and Re-Load are a different story....


Based on this and your previous post about the Dark Tower, I don't think we're going to get along very well.

/Seriously? You liked St. Anger? What's wrong with you?
 
2012-03-13 05:23:02 PM  

helper_monkey: I don't know if I can say Wizard and Glass was my favorite of the series, but I also really liked it. In fact, I have always thought that it would make a great stand-alone movie if Hollywood didn't think it could do the whole series.

Cut off the beginning with Blaine and the end with Flagg, add a few bits of the flashback scenes from The Gunslinger and just tell the story of the young gunslingers and what happened in Mejis. I think it could work really well if done carefully.


That's pretty much what they did with the Gunslinger Born comic book series, and it worked wonderfully. I actually kind of liked the streamlined comic take on the story a bit better than the original novel.

zogworld.com

If they adapted it into a movie, it would make a great self contained starting point for a movie series. If the movie did well they could continue the series, if it didn't then the audience wouldn't be left hanging.

I still think the best bet for a movie series is to begin it with Roland having the Horn with him, so any changes they have to make to the story for the purposes of adapting it to a different medium are explained in-universe, plus it gives them the option to change up the ending if they want. The neat part is that the movie series would then be a sequel to the books instead of an adaptation.
 
2012-03-13 05:28:35 PM  

Mad_Radhu: helper_monkey: I don't know if I can say Wizard and Glass was my favorite of the series, but I also really liked it. In fact, I have always thought that it would make a great stand-alone movie if Hollywood didn't think it could do the whole series.

Cut off the beginning with Blaine and the end with Flagg, add a few bits of the flashback scenes from The Gunslinger and just tell the story of the young gunslingers and what happened in Mejis. I think it could work really well if done carefully.

That's pretty much what they did with the Gunslinger Born comic book series, and it worked wonderfully. I actually kind of liked the streamlined comic take on the story a bit better than the original novel.

[zogworld.com image 640x486]

If they adapted it into a movie, it would make a great self contained starting point for a movie series. If the movie did well they could continue the series, if it didn't then the audience wouldn't be left hanging.

I still think the best bet for a movie series is to begin it with Roland having the Horn with him, so any changes they have to make to the story for the purposes of adapting it to a different medium are explained in-universe, plus it gives them the option to change up the ending if they want. The neat part is that the movie series would then be a sequel to the books instead of an adaptation.


Hmmm...I haven't read comics in a long time but I may have to check that out if I can find it. I looked up some info online and it appears that Jae Lee did the artwork. If that's correct, then he has come a long way from the occasional X-Men issue he used to do back in the day. His artwork then was borderline incomprehensible.
 
2012-03-13 05:32:02 PM  
Since there are some metal heads in here, here's a pertinent album:

ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2012-03-13 05:32:19 PM  

helper_monkey:
Hmmm...I haven't read comics in a long time but I may have to check that out if I can find it. I looked up some info online and it appears that Jae Lee did the artwork. If that's correct, then he has come a long way from the occasional X-Men issue he used to do back in the day. His artwork then was borderline incomprehensible.


It's some really nice artwork.

www.reviewbusters.net

I highly recommend the series.
 
2012-03-13 05:42:58 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Time Traveling Bunnies: AdmirableSnackbar: I thought (and still think) that Thomas Jane would be great.

Are we dreamcasting again? Here's my picks:

Roland: agree with Thomas Jane
Susannah: Zoe Saldana
Eddie: Jeffrey Donovan (Burn Notice)
Jake: maybe the kid from Walking Dead?
Walter: Michael Emerson/Kevin Spacey

Oy: Wishbone (from Wishbone)

Are you kidding me? WTF is this shiat? Moose (Eddie from Frasier) has to be Oy.


Roland: Sigourney Weaver
Susanna: Laurence Fushburne
Eddie: John Cusack
Jake: any kid from Glee
Walter: Hodgeman!
Oy: Yoda
 
2012-03-13 05:43:09 PM  
I liked it.

/Yes, the ending too.

//link doesn't work for me...
 
2012-03-13 05:46:33 PM  

Time Traveling Bunnies: I enjoyed Wizard and Glass but it seems like everyone else always hates it. It was cool to see an adventure of young Roland and his buds. It was like the short story King wrote earlier. Little Sisters of Eluria maybe?

That said I can't wait for this and The Stand remake.


Not sure about The Stand remake, but you're right on with W&G (book 4). It's a tough read compared with the first three, but highly underrated in quality. It brings some happiness and brightness to Roland's past, making the darkness of the rest of the series that much darker.
 
2012-03-13 05:55:03 PM  
 
2012-03-13 05:55:12 PM  

dj_spanmaster: Time Traveling Bunnies: I enjoyed Wizard and Glass but it seems like everyone else always hates it. It was cool to see an adventure of young Roland and his buds. It was like the short story King wrote earlier. Little Sisters of Eluria maybe?

That said I can't wait for this and The Stand remake.

Not sure about The Stand remake, but you're right on with W&G (book 4). It's a tough read compared with the first three, but highly underrated in quality. It brings some happiness and brightness to Roland's past, making the darkness of the rest of the series that much darker.


I like W&G, I just thought it was a overly long for what is essentially a sidestory.

AdmirableSnackbar: My overall point is that the first three books are seen by some fans as unimpeachable - and I get that, everything is awesome when you're 12, even moreso when it stays with you and retains its value as you age like the first three books did for so many. Nothing could live up to those three books for some people, and by and large those are the people who are the most vocal with their feelings on the last three books. Did the quality dip? In some ways yes but not a whole hell of a lot. Certainly not enough to draw the venom that some have for them.




eh, that's The New Simpsons defense. I'll admit that the latter books get more scorn than they really should, but the above defense doesn't really dispute any of the otherwise rather noticeable dips in quality towards the end.
 
2012-03-13 06:12:12 PM  

FeedTheCollapse: eh, that's The New Simpsons defense. I'll admit that the latter books get more scorn than they really should, but the above defense doesn't really dispute any of the otherwise rather noticeable dips in quality towards the end.


I only wish that people could better explain what they believe the "noticeable dips in quality" might be. Instead I see people post vague, nonsensical dreck like BigMevy did above. But apparently two people going from their day-to-day lives to full-fledged gunslingers in a matter of a few weeks (three if you count Jake) when it took Roland a decade-plus of training - that makes perfect sense. That's my point. If you want to look for crap, you can find it in all seven books of the series. For some reason people only focus on the last four books.
 
2012-03-13 06:23:02 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: FeedTheCollapse: eh, that's The New Simpsons defense. I'll admit that the latter books get more scorn than they really should, but the above defense doesn't really dispute any of the otherwise rather noticeable dips in quality towards the end.

I only wish that people could better explain what they believe the "noticeable dips in quality" might be. Instead I see people post vague, nonsensical dreck like BigMevy did above. But apparently two people going from their day-to-day lives to full-fledged gunslingers in a matter of a few weeks (three if you count Jake) when it took Roland a decade-plus of training - that makes perfect sense. That's my point. If you want to look for crap, you can find it in all seven books of the series. For some reason people only focus on the last four books.


I'd say Baron Harkonnen explained it fairly well. On top of that, i would add that Wolves of the Calla felt overly long, yet the last 3 books as a whole felt rather rushed (particularly the last book). The first 4 books may not be perfect (though I think at least the first book is unimpeachably great) as they do suffer from the typical King-ism of staying in one place for too long, especially W&G, but the flaws are much more pronounced in the last 3 books.
 
2012-03-13 06:38:50 PM  

FeedTheCollapse: AdmirableSnackbar: FeedTheCollapse: eh, that's The New Simpsons defense. I'll admit that the latter books get more scorn than they really should, but the above defense doesn't really dispute any of the otherwise rather noticeable dips in quality towards the end.

I only wish that people could better explain what they believe the "noticeable dips in quality" might be. Instead I see people post vague, nonsensical dreck like BigMevy did above. But apparently two people going from their day-to-day lives to full-fledged gunslingers in a matter of a few weeks (three if you count Jake) when it took Roland a decade-plus of training - that makes perfect sense. That's my point. If you want to look for crap, you can find it in all seven books of the series. For some reason people only focus on the last four books.

I'd say Baron Harkonnen explained it fairly well. On top of that, i would add that Wolves of the Calla felt overly long, yet the last 3 books as a whole felt rather rushed (particularly the last book). The first 4 books may not be perfect (though I think at least the first book is unimpeachably great) as they do suffer from the typical King-ism of staying in one place for too long, especially W&G, but the flaws are much more pronounced in the last 3 books.


The Baron made three points:

1) That the trek never went anywhere other than an Earth-like planet/setting. Why did he expect it to? The Gunslinger was trying to go to a place in his own world. That's like being pissed that Star Wars never involved Earth - it's an unrealistic expectation based on nothing contained in any part of the story.

2) That King beat the reader over the head with the 19s. I agree with that. It's a valid criticism. Baron goes over the top with it but the underlying point is a valid complaint.

3) That King inserting himself in the story was OK, but Jake dying for him was not. I also won't defend King for writing himself into the series (I personally wish he had written it, as it seemed to be his own therapy, and then deleted it and picked a different path), but once you're OK with that happening then how can you not be OK with Jake dying to save his life? It fits the narrative and makes sense.

So Baron makes three points about the last four books, only one and a half of which are valid (and the one is overdone). I could probably find just as many criticisms, if not more, in the first three books - if I really wanted to. But I don't, because I can sit back and enjoy something that I like for what it is instead of whining about how it's not what I want it to be.
 
2012-03-13 06:49:22 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: BigMevy: AdmirableSnackbar: FeedTheCollapse: AdmirableSnackbar: I was just saying that I find myself consistent with both artists as liked the entire Dark Tower series and I like all of Metallica's albums (St. Anger being the obvious exception).

Hey! I liked St. Anger.

Load and Re-Load are a different story....

Based on this and your previous post about the Dark Tower, I don't think we're going to get along very well.

/Seriously? You liked St. Anger? What's wrong with you?


Weird, apparently my last response was so awesome it disappeared in a cloud somewhere. Yes, I liked St. Anger. I think my liking of it was largely affected by the fact I hadn't heard any of it till I watched "Some Kind of Monster" which I found facinating. Maybe seeing the making of, as it were, ended up affecting my overall opinion of it. I get that lots of long time die-hard fans were really worked up over that one though. Either out of bitterness over Newstead leaving, or because of the guys showing their vulnerability by confessing all to a shrink in a very un-metal way. Regardless, that's my 2 bits on it. It had some great riffs and a lot of feeling in it that I felt was lacking in Load and ReLoad. And I felt more connected to it I guess because of James recognizing his addictions and getting help, as I've had some experience with that.

Take it as you will.

AdmirableSnackbar: FeedTheCollapse: eh, that's The New Simpsons defense. I'll admit that the latter books get more scorn than they really should, but the above defense doesn't really dispute any of the otherwise rather noticeable dips in quality towards the end.

I only wish that people could better explain what they believe the "noticeable dips in quality" might be. Instead I see people post vague, nonsensical dreck like BigMevy did above. But apparently two people going from their day-to-day lives to full-fledged gunslingers in a matter of a few weeks (three if you count Jake) when it took Roland a decade-plus of training - that makes perfect sense. That's my point. If you want to look for crap, you can find it in all seven books of the series. For some reason people only focus on the last four books.


Sure, you can always find holes in any story. I'm not sure what part you considered dreck, and yes I may have been a little vague. In my defense this argument is an old one, and I've put more effort into it before. I frankly don't have the desire to get balls-deep into it once again. Overall as a series I still love the Dark Tower, and am looking forward to this new book he's doing on it as one of my biggest disappointments (other than CK's weak demise) was the lack of follow-up on what happened to Roland after the events of his young life from Wizard and Glass. I had fully expected more of that somewhere in the last few books, and was pretty put out when I realized it wasn't there. So at least we have that to look forward to.
 
2012-03-13 07:23:24 PM  

Time Traveling Bunnies: kroonermanblack: kronicfeld: socalnewwaver: most of the people who actually read the books don't like (or get) the ending

It couldn't just be that we thought it was a trite, eminently-predictable cop-out. No, no, we are just far too ignorant and unenlightened to embrace its majesty.

This. Enjoyed the novels.

Hated the ending so much. But it's how king 'ends' all his novels I've read.

I liked the final ending to the book. The battle and spidery things leading up to it? Not so much.

I don't advocate the burning of many books, but Song of Susannah was an abomination. I would rather read a leaflet on Famous Jewish Sports Legends.


i1135.photobucket.com
 
2012-03-13 07:44:09 PM  
Aaron Paul could be a possible Eddie Dean.
 
2012-03-13 08:01:11 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: FeedTheCollapse: AdmirableSnackbar: FeedTheCollapse: eh, that's The New Simpsons defense. I'll admit that the latter books get more scorn than they really should, but the above defense doesn't really dispute any of the otherwise rather noticeable dips in quality towards the end.

I only wish that people could better explain what they believe the "noticeable dips in quality" might be. Instead I see people post vague, nonsensical dreck like BigMevy did above. But apparently two people going from their day-to-day lives to full-fledged gunslingers in a matter of a few weeks (three if you count Jake) when it took Roland a decade-plus of training - that makes perfect sense. That's my point. If you want to look for crap, you can find it in all seven books of the series. For some reason people only focus on the last four books.

I'd say Baron Harkonnen explained it fairly well. On top of that, i would add that Wolves of the Calla felt overly long, yet the last 3 books as a whole felt rather rushed (particularly the last book). The first 4 books may not be perfect (though I think at least the first book is unimpeachably great) as they do suffer from the typical King-ism of staying in one place for too long, especially W&G, but the flaws are much more pronounced in the last 3 books.

The Baron made three points:

1) That the trek never went anywhere other than an Earth-like planet/setting. Why did he expect it to? The Gunslinger was trying to go to a place in his own world. That's like being pissed that Star Wars never involved Earth - it's an unrealistic expectation based on nothing contained in any part of the story.

2) That King beat the reader over the head with the 19s. I agree with that. It's a valid criticism. Baron goes over the top with it but the underlying point is a valid complaint.

3) That King inserting himself in the story was OK, but Jake dying for him was not. I also won't defend King for writing himself into the series (I personally wish he had wri ...


Here's a little list I came up with for why the quality declined in the last 3 books.

1. As stated by the other guy, you get beat over the head with the number 19. Over and over and over.

2. Trying to shoehorn characters from other books or stories. Father Callahan, dude from "Everything's Eventual (I can't remember his name), and the other guy from Hearts in Atlantis, the kid whose drawings become real from Insomnia.

3. He seemed to drag things out with Susannah. He spends all this time in Wolve's of the Calla and a fair chunk of Song of Susannah telling you how fast the baby is coming, yet it seems to drag on and on.

4. One of the bad ass villains he builds up throughout numerous books (Flagg) not only goes out like a biatch, but it turns out he's a bit of a simpering fool as well. I've heard arguments to the effect of "Well he does in every other book he turns up in too" which do make a sort of sesnse, but it doesn't excuse the subservient fool turn he does near his end.

5. The other bad ass villain he builds up, the Crimson King goes out like a real biatch.

6. Roland's demon spawn, out like a biatch as well.

7. The epic battle that should come at the end of such a journey just doesn't happen.

8. Pop culture thrown into the books not as subtle hints to a connection to our world or others like from the previous books, but reworked as silly weapons and villains. Snitches that are bombs, lightsabers, mechanical riders that look like Doctor Doom.

I was ok with him inserting himself into the story, I actually found that mildly interesting. And I was ok with the ending. As someone above stated, it's the only ending that fit.
 
2012-03-13 09:19:37 PM  
I am into the idea of these becoming movies, and an HBO adaptation would also kick much ass.

However, I am not keen on King having a hand in production, he is farking inept when it comes to adapting his stories to film.
 
2012-03-13 09:50:10 PM  
Put Frank Darabont in charge of this.

You're welcome.
 
2012-03-13 10:42:16 PM  
As for the remake of The Stand, I'm betting they skimp on it, and ruin the whole thing. It was a mini-series because that's what was needed to tell just the bare-bones version of the story. And, there will never be a better Stu Redman than Gary Sinise. Even worse, what if they go all "Rob Zombie" and try to humanize The Walkin Dude.

Nothing good will come of the Dark Tower Series if it consists of any less than 10 movies. Even with animation, they'll have to cut out way too much of the story, and it'll come off as a masturbatory salute to the Avid Reader to anybody who read the entire series. Yeah, I read it. And enjoyed every last word. From King writing his self into the story, to Blaine the train, to all the references to the story in Kings other works. To take issue with his imaginings is analogous to saying you have to be at the library in 26 minutes.


cdn3.sbnation.com
Were you not entertained?
 
2012-03-13 10:50:08 PM  
well-of-souls.com
 
2012-03-13 10:53:54 PM  

BigMevy: Weird, apparently my last response was so awesome it disappeared in a cloud somewhere. Yes, I liked St. Anger. I think my liking of it was largely affected by the fact I hadn't heard any of it till I watched "Some Kind of Monster" which I found facinating. Maybe seeing the making of, as it were, ended up affecting my overall opinion of it. I get that lots of long time die-hard fans were really worked up over that one though. Either out of bitterness over Newstead leaving, or because of the guys showing their vulnerability by confessing all to a shrink in a very un-metal way. Regardless, that's my 2 bits on it. It had some great riffs and a lot of feeling in it that I felt was lacking in Load and ReLoad. And I felt more connected to it I guess because of James recognizing his addictions and getting help, as I've had some experience with that.


No, I only hated it because it sounded like shiat. I liked the concept of no solos, but I just can't listen to those terrible drums. It just sounds like shiat to me. I think they should have tried that for one song but not for an album and I don't see how they could have possibly listened to that and thought it sounded good. I tried very hard to like that album but just couldn't do it - and I figured if I couldn't, as hard as I tried, then nobody could.

Sure, you can always find holes in any story. I'm not sure what part you considered dreck, and yes I may have been a little vague. In my defense this argument is an old one, and I've put more effort into it before. I frankly don't have the desire to get balls-deep into it once again. Overall as a series I still love the Dark Tower, and am looking forward to this new book he's doing on it as one of my biggest disappointments (other than CK's weak demise) was the lack of follow-up on what happened to Roland after the events of his young life from Wizard and Glass. I had fully expected more of that somewhere in the last few books, and was pretty put out when I realized it wasn't there. So at least we have that to look forward to.

I just find it funny that people seem to think that if a major character dies then they went out like a biatch. The Crimson King actually has the perfect plan to beat Roland even if he has gone completely insane (as nearly everyone who has mentioned CK in SK's works has said). All CK had to do was wait Roland out, and Roland beats him by doing the one thing that SK beat us over the head with that is Roland's weakness - he thinks around corners and solves the riddle. It's not about CK as much as it is about Roland keeping his head with the Tower in reach and calling him and out-thinking his opponent to finally win the Tower.

Again, I'm not saying that there aren't valid criticisms of any of the books. What I am saying is that the criticisms of the final three (or four) books always seem contrived and/or overlook how similar - if not more damning - criticisms could be made about the first three books.
 
2012-03-13 11:11:08 PM  

FLMountainMan: THIS. While Full Dark, No Stars was great, 11/22/63 was just awful. I've read everyone of his books and 11/22/63 is the only one I actually considered giving up on. And having finished it, I wish I had quit at around page 200. Sheer crap.


Wow. I guess there really is no accounting for taste.
 
2012-03-14 02:46:50 AM  
I can't forgive King for the revised edition of the gunslinger. It's worth going out and seeking the unrevised edition because it is one of the best things Stephen King has ever written.

Someone is praising the gunslinger comic book? fark that piece of shiat. Love the artwork but the dialogue is like Stephen King filtered through someone who is severely retarded.

If the movies follow the style of the first four books they could be glorious.
 
2012-03-14 11:23:47 AM  

Andric: FLMountainMan: THIS. While Full Dark, No Stars was great, 11/22/63 was just awful. I've read everyone of his books and 11/22/63 is the only one I actually considered giving up on. And having finished it, I wish I had quit at around page 200. Sheer crap.

Wow. I guess there really is no accounting for taste.


Or low expectations.
 
2012-03-14 03:56:01 PM  

HAMMERTOE: Nothing good will come of the Dark Tower Series if it consists of any less than 10 movies. Even with animation, they'll have to cut out way too much of the story, and it'll come off as a masturbatory salute to the Avid Reader to anybody who read the entire series. Yeah, I read it. And enjoyed every last word. From King writing his self into the story, to Blaine the train, to all the references to the story in Kings other works. To take issue with his imaginings is analogous to saying you have to be at the library in 26 minutes.


frankly, even with my disappointment with the last few books, I'm excited over the prospect of a Dark Tower movie because I think they will skim out some of the more egregious parts of the book. I'm not quite sure why some people insist of a word-for-word adaptation of books made into movies as what works in one medium doesn't work in the other; not to mention that the track record for literal adaptations of King's works are a bit hit or miss.
 
2012-03-14 05:39:37 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: While I would love to see a Dark Tower movie series, why oh why cast Javier Bardem as Roland? Nothing about JB seems to fit Roland, but maybe that's just me.


No, it's not just you. I think he would be a terrible choice for Roland.
 
2012-03-14 06:48:33 PM  

FLMountainMan: Or low expectations.


Yeah, that must be it. I really just like everything.
 
2012-03-15 10:33:26 AM  

Andric: FLMountainMan: Or low expectations.

Yeah, that must be it. I really just like everything.


...or you pick stupid fights like this. I thought 11/22/63 sucked. You think it didn't. How are you ever going to prove to me that it didn't? You can't. So the only thing you can do is try to puff up your own sense of self-worth by attacking me for liking a different style of art than you. Applied universally, this will ultimately leave you a) unfulfilled, or b) socially isolated, or c) both. Why not ask why the other person thought it sucked? Or ask what they thought of a passage that you think is good?

Embrace diversity.
 
2012-03-15 01:19:21 PM  
weren't there guys like this?

images.wikia.com
 
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