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(USA Today)   More and more doctors are standing up to parents who refuse to vaccinate their children and telling them to go fark themselves   (yourlife.usatoday.com) divider line 433
    More: Hero, whooping cough, vaccination schedule, vices, HPV Vaccine, pediatricians, vaccines, refuses, Brentwood  
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15813 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2012 at 9:51 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-13 11:27:00 AM  

StubePT: My feeling is that parents just want SOMETHING - ANYTHING - to blame. They had a scapegoat, but it was taken away. And rather than admit to being duped, they would rather continue the lie than admit that they are powerless when it comes to how their child develops genetically.


This is exactly what it is.
 
2012-03-13 11:27:19 AM  

Wicked Chinchilla: sigpop: Wait till your 6 month-old spends two days in intensive care with a 106 degree fever because doctors like to give three vaccinations in a single shot. Maybe, just maybe everything the medical establishment tells you isn't on the up and up. Even doctors disagree. When I asked the doctor at Dell Children's in Austin if a vaccine can cause a reaction like that - even though our personal pediatrician said it could not - he said "sure, we see it all the time."

I have a similar story. My two year old didn't react well to the heap of vaccinations given in one visit. We spent a week in the hospital with a platelet count of 2k and she was diagnosed with ITP. She didn't respond to the standard treatments and had problems for about two years. She spent a few more days in the children's oncology ward for more treatments.

Spread the vaccinations out. There is no need to give multiple shots all in one appointment. Some of them are combinations of multiple vaccines, themselves, compounding the issue.

ITP is a blood clotting disorder that often follows a viral infection. It was coincidence, not the vaccine. The bolded part is also irrelevant. Once again, your child is exposed more to antigens by touching a single door knob than any of those combo shots. People have a higher chance of getting nerve damage from the injection itself (through nurse accident/error) than anything out of the components of the vaccine which is one huge reason why combo vaccines are a great idea.


I would love for you to compile all of your posts on this thread into an intro for any vaccination thread. Calm dispassionate statements of FACT stated in a reasonable tone has slapped the snot out of some of the ignorant views posted here.

Good on you!

And>>>


KatjaMouse [TotalFark]



Your statement

"Good point. And Catholics do tend to get offended when you tell them to stop spraying staff infected holy water over their sick loved ones in a hospital." gave me the creeps, I never thought about that before, similar to the holy water dipping station as you enter the church...... EEEEEWWWWWWW!

Thanks for the nightmares (and ammunition) to gross folks out.
 
2012-03-13 11:30:40 AM  

Janusdog: This text is now purple: namegoeshere: gearfab_bastad: Wait till your 6 month-old spends two days in intensive care with a 106 degree fever because doctors like to give three vaccinations in a single shot. Maybe, just maybe everything the medical establishment tells you isn't on the up and up. Even doctors disagree. When I asked the doctor at Dell Children's in Austin if a vaccine can cause a reaction like that - even though our personal pediatrician said it could not - he said "sure, we see it all the time."

Better a high fever from which they recover than polio, smallpox, mumps, etc. from which they die or are permanently, severely disabled.

No one has been inoculated against smallpox for decades.

Because it's been declared eradicated. Because of vaccination.


I get that. But the argument that we need vaccines to ward of smallpox is... antiquated. Hell, the vaccine stocks are essentially the only remaining smallpox vectors.
 
2012-03-13 11:32:26 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Screw the parents. Who are they to say what can be done to their kids.

Fark, you scare me.

I think kids should be immunized, but it's not up to me, and it's not up to you.


It's up to you if you vaccinate your kids. It's up to the rest of us if we want to expose ourselves and our kids to a living petri dish raised by a dumbass .
 
2012-03-13 11:33:27 AM  

Cythraul: Why can't we do this more often with people who deny science and facts? It could radically change the current U.S. political landscape.


Why can't we do this more often with people who use incredibly simplistic methods to categorize people?
 
2012-03-13 11:33:57 AM  

RembrandtQEinstein: You might not like their decisions that doesn't matter, that is the price of freedom. It doesn't help anything to be snarky or look down your noses at the people you consider ignorant. If you really wanted to help you would be polite, provide evidence, and hope you are convincing enough. Otherwise you are just being a dick.



And what about when you encounter those that deliberately spread misinformation for their own gain? (Wakefield)
Or indeed those that spread misinformation under false illusions, and then belligerently defend these illusions in the face of contradictory fact? (McCarthy)
And what about times when, like with global warming or evolution, you can't help but step back and marvel at the clinical grade stupidity that's flowing from them? And how it repeats, time and time and time again despite each and every minute point being precisely and exactly refuted?

In a clinical setting with a physician, you're right, and it sounds like you had a great doctor. On the internet... bah, the internet is for snark, and if the record shows anti-vaxxers getting their asses handed to them in factual debate, so much the better. There's no arguing with people who don't believe in evidence and facts, but at least when they can be exposed for such then others who prefer actual knowledge over fear and conjecture can see that the 'debate' is yet another clash of reason vs. superstition.
 
2012-03-13 11:33:59 AM  

KatjaMouse: Good point. And Catholics do tend to get offended when you tell them to stop spraying staff infected holy water over their sick loved ones in a hospital.


You realize you can bless a container of distilled water, right?

/Come on people, this is fundamental anti-vampire dogma.
 
2012-03-13 11:34:22 AM  

FLMountainMan: Cythraul: Why can't we do this more often with people who deny science and facts? It could radically change the current U.S. political landscape.

Why can't we do this more often with people who use incredibly simplistic methods to categorize people?


You sound like a Republican. lawlz.
 
2012-03-13 11:34:22 AM  

RembrandtQEinstein: Look I think the anti vaccine crowd are generally a bunch of idiots. My cool story:

My wife was on the jenny mccarthy bandwagon for a while and I humored her for a little while. We didn't get vaccinations at the hospital but on our first doctor's visit the doctor said that hospitals use lower quality vaccine because it is cheaper. I have no idea whether or not that is correct. Also he gave us a list of vaccines and told us the severity and statistical chances of each outcome. So he talked to us like adults, gave us his facts, showed us what to research to figure it out for ourselves. And we eventually got all of the shots but he told us that it was OK to spread them out over several visits, to minimize the possibility of side effects from any one series of shots. Maybe he was just patronizing us or maybe he wanted to charge for multiple visits. The point is that he got the shots in my kids and made my wife comfortable with the whole thing without being preachy or condescending.

The reality is that life is too complicated to know anything for certainty, and the group of people who you implicitly trust are in the exact position to abuse that trust. The only thing a person can do is make decisions for themselves based on the information they have, and it is the job of parents to do the same for their kids.

You might not like their decisions that doesn't matter, that is the price of freedom. It doesn't help anything to be snarky or look down your noses at the people you consider ignorant. If you really wanted to help you would be polite, provide evidence, and hope you are convincing enough. Otherwise you are just being a dick.



That part is BS. All vaccines go through the same approval process from the FDA. If they are approved, they are safe to use, end-of-story. There isn't a less safe, or more safe brand of vaccines as these aren't used car parts. They are injections that must be almost perfectly sterile and correctly assembled/grown.

The rest of it was your doctor being a good neighborhood doctor and addressing your concerns. Whether or not there actually is an increase in risk from the current vaccine schedule vs. spreading it out (there isn't, its reviewed annually by a panel of vaccine experts and pediatricians), you as parents perceived a potential risk and he did very well to calm your concerns. I have zero problems with anything that went on because, in the end, everyone got vaccinated which is the most important thing.
 
2012-03-13 11:34:47 AM  

KatjaMouse: Skarekrough: I live near Attleboro, MA and every few years we hear news of some poor kid dying because rather than put their faith in science being able to save or help the kid they decide the better option is to hold hands and pray.

Well, let's be real, that's one particular group of Christians, not Christians in general. Jehovah's Witnesses are especially derpy when it comes to the sciences. And anything fun too.


I was raised as a Catholic so I know that not all Christians are like that.

But I do know that all people, including Christians, should have some basic concept of common sense and an ability and willingness to separate fact from derp when it comes to making big decisions.....like with your kid.

When I was a kid I remember there was a "Christian Science Reading Room." Every year I would help out my Father (a local Veterinarian) by asking business to hang up signs for a Rabies Clinic he would do with the help of the town.

The vaccines were discounted, it was an all-day sort of event, they weren't checking animal licenses....just show up and get your pet a rabies shot so they don't have to cut the animals brain out to check if something happens and it bites a kid.

But every year those snapperheads in the Christian Science Reading Room would say the same thing; "I'm sorry. This isn't something that I can support."

Seriously? You can support some animal having it's brains shipped off to the lab because of an unfortunate accident?

It isn't about "most people." It's about the small percentage of folks who refuse to embrace facts and reality screwing it up for the rest of us.

And honestly, if you want to live in the middle of nowhere so that the odds are slim to none that anyone is ever affected by it then great. Buy land. Build the compound. I don't care.

But if you're in the general populace then your bad decisions effect the rest of us.
 
2012-03-13 11:36:29 AM  

hinten: thisisyourbrainonFark: hinten: thisisyourbrainonFark: hinten: SpinStopper: thisisyourbrainonFark: Time to post this Penn & Teller linkage again, I see.

Link (new window)

Thanks. I've tried to use that same argument, but nowhere near as effectively as they did ;)



I don't care on which side they fall, Penn & Teller are a bunch of opinionated loudmouths and not scientists. They are wrong as often as they are right.
It's entertainment not peer reviewed science. Stick to sawing ladies in half.

You know how I know you didn't watch the video?

What does that have to do with what I am saying?
Do you know how I know that you didn't comprehend what I wrote?

Oh, I comprehend that you're taking issue with a completely common-sense argument. I also comprehend that you're not very bright. Enjoy your ignorance.

Ignorance of what?

I take issue with following the "common sense" of a pair of wizards that are as likely to be wrong as they are right sometimes.
Follow the magicians, I hope it works out for you.


You should watch the video because the "wizards" aren't the only people in that video.
 
2012-03-13 11:36:50 AM  

SweetDickens: HotWingConspiracy Ever meet one of those folks who were first in line for the polio vaccine????

Yea, they were placed in an iron lung machine.......right next to those who actually contracted polio without the vaccine.

If you are going to play researcher at least try and learn about the polio vaccine variations that were used in the beginning.


OMG you're so right. That totally negates everything the polio vaccine has done for us. You should intentionally give your kids polio to really rub my nose in it.
 
2012-03-13 11:38:52 AM  
www.cdc.gov



Bears repeating
 
2012-03-13 11:39:41 AM  

Gothnet: gearfab_bastad: Wait till your 6 month-old spends two days in intensive care with a 106 degree fever because doctors like to give three vaccinations in a single shot. Maybe, just maybe everything the medical establishment tells you isn't on the up and up. Even doctors disagree. When I asked the doctor at Dell Children's in Austin if a vaccine can cause a reaction like that - even though our personal pediatrician said it could not - he said "sure, we see it all the time."

Citation needed.

There are adverse reactions to vaccination, but AFAICT three shots at once makes no difference, and 'all the time' is pretty unlikely. Don't you think there would be a lot more stories, and from people who aren't crazy-whacko-dingbats, if this happened 'all the time' ?

As it is, most kids get nothing like that, and compared to the real possibility of DEATH from the childhood diseases this stuff protects against...

I'm sorry you had a stressful time, but anecdotes are not and never will be data.


and we all know that data can never be corrupted.

please stop questioning the establishment.

don't you know that when you hear an opposing view or example, you are to ram your head up your ass and call them dingbats? that way you can discount anything you don't agree with.

science. it's not like religion at all.
 
2012-03-13 11:40:19 AM  

Cythraul: FLMountainMan: Cythraul: Why can't we do this more often with people who deny science and facts? It could radically change the current U.S. political landscape.

Why can't we do this more often with people who use incredibly simplistic methods to categorize people?

You sound like a Republican. lawlz.


Better than just sounding ignorant. Seriously. How simple-minded are you that every single issue you face you have to label those who disagree with you as being members of some political party and therefore marginalized? I actually lobby for the left and have done more to promote progressive causes in the last three months than your lifetime of impotent monkey-at-a-keyboard whining. And that experience of lobbying reinforced what is obvious to most people in this thread - political parties aren't your favorite goddamned football team and their supporters aren't automatically your friends or your enemies.

I'm pro-vaccine, but I wish people like you would just sit down, shut up, and let the grown-ups talk. You're the ultimate tu quoque argument.
 
2012-03-13 11:41:17 AM  
"Some kids do have a weaker immune system," she said. "In Morgan's case, her immune system was compromised. I don't know why. She wasn't able to handle the load. As a parent, I believe there are several factors in autism -- different cases. But in our case, I still strongly believe that was a factor in her autism."

Based. On. What. Evidence. Anything whatsoever? A SINGLE CASE of partial correlation? You see a blue car and "strongly believe" that all cars are blue? Really? Not really, right? This is all a sick joke?

/cries in corner
 
2012-03-13 11:41:21 AM  

inner ted: and we all know that data can never be corrupted.

please stop questioning the establishment.

don't you know that when you hear an opposing view or example, you are to ram your head up your ass and call them dingbats? that way you can discount anything you don't agree with.

science. it's not like religion at all.



Please provide me some opposing data, papers, studies etc.
Will be happy to change opinion.
 
2012-03-13 11:44:08 AM  

MzUnderstood: Well... one more.

My midwife's first two kids NOT vaccinated. Third one was on her second set. All went to bed normal. Third one woke up sick. Died a week later from meningitis. Other two who were not vaccinated did not get it. God's will? Natural selection? Vaccination induced? Who knows?


My friend raised two identical twins. One was vaccinated and one was not (he s a suck fark). 20 years later the vaccinated one was killed by a pimp for not paying the hooker. He blames the vaccination to this day. . . .
 
2012-03-13 11:44:35 AM  
And another thing: Why do these journalists insist on getting "both sides" of the issue? "Hmm... we've heard from several respected doctors on the subject, we must now give equal time to a random wacko who believes that anecdote equals data."
 
2012-03-13 11:45:08 AM  

SpectroBoy: [www.cdc.gov image 380x230]


Bears repeating


Indeed.

I always like the smallpox example. It killed two million people out of an infected population of 15 million people in 1967. It is estimated to have killed 300-500 million people during the 20th century alone.

Approximate infections for 2012? 0. Approximate deaths? 0. Why? It was declared eradicated in 1979 following an aggressive vaccination campaign.

This is a virus that has existed through all of human history. It is THE disease responsible for devastating entire Empires of people in the New World. And we killed it.

Vaccination Works.
 
2012-03-13 11:45:31 AM  
Ok, I lied, here's another one that was posted on fb right after I trolled here for a moment. What a co-inky-dink.

http://www.NaturalNews.com/Vaccines_Get_the_Full_Story.html

The admins just green this stuff to watch the shiat fly. Oh, and give all you farkers something to do.

Somewhere back in all these posts was someone saying that adverse reactions, like 106º fevers don't happen all the time, as the Doc said. Well. Sorry to tell you, yes, they do. Visit any mommy blog to find out. You're obviously not a mom or a parent.

/soapbox
//get off now
///does anyone really give a shiat about this?
 
2012-03-13 11:48:22 AM  

FLMountainMan: Cythraul: FLMountainMan: Cythraul: Why can't we do this more often with people who deny science and facts? It could radically change the current U.S. political landscape.

Why can't we do this more often with people who use incredibly simplistic methods to categorize people?

You sound like a Republican. lawlz.

Better than just sounding ignorant. Seriously. How simple-minded are you that every single issue you face you have to label those who disagree with you as being members of some political party and therefore marginalized? I actually lobby for the left and have done more to promote progressive causes in the last three months than your lifetime of impotent monkey-at-a-keyboard whining. And that experience of lobbying reinforced what is obvious to most people in this thread - political parties aren't your favorite goddamned football team and their supporters aren't automatically your friends or your enemies.

I'm pro-vaccine, but I wish people like you would just sit down, shut up, and let the grown-ups talk. You're the ultimate tu quoque argument.


I knew that would upset you.

I don't really care about your opinions by the way. I refer to my original statement about people choosing to ignore scientific facts about vaccinations. Pretty simple to me, hence my simple statement.

Have a nice day.
 
2012-03-13 11:48:29 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: If the parents don't want to vaccinate, then the parents wishes MUST be respected. Either doctors must respect patient wishes............................ or doctors should be allowed to make judgement calls during ALL procedures, including abortion, even if that means the doctor decides not to administer.


I hope you are trolling. But just in case...

The difference is that gays, blacks, etc are NOT A THREAT TO OTHER PATIENTS whereas un-vaccinated children may be.

Please TRY to understand before responding.
 
2012-03-13 11:48:57 AM  
The FACT that vaccines work to prevent disease is totally incontrovertible. Even if they do cause autism, by not getting them you are essentially saying that you are OK WITH HAVING YOUR CHILD FARKING DIE OR BECOME DISFIGURED DO TO A PREVENTABLE DISEASE. Would you rather have an autistic kid or dead baby?
 
2012-03-13 11:49:02 AM  

MzUnderstood: Somewhere back in all these posts was someone saying that adverse reactions, like 106º fevers don't happen all the time, as the Doc said. Well. Sorry to tell you, yes, they do. Visit any mommy blog to find out. You're obviously not a mom or a parent.



Yes, because Mommy's are always compiling data about the frequency of such things, and certainly don't suffer from any sort of confirmation bias, and most certainly people wouldn't only post on mommy blogs when there's a problem.

Just remember, Mommy knows best! Population statistics are for bad, bad little boys who don't love the Mommy!
 
2012-03-13 11:49:06 AM  

MzUnderstood: Ok, I lied, here's another one that was posted on fb right after I trolled here for a moment. What a co-inky-dink.

http://www.NaturalNews.com/Vaccines_Get_the_Full_Story.html

The admins just green this stuff to watch the shiat fly. Oh, and give all you farkers something to do.

Somewhere back in all these posts was someone saying that adverse reactions, like 106º fevers don't happen all the time, as the Doc said. Well. Sorry to tell you, yes, they do. Visit any mommy blog to find out. You're obviously not a mom or a parent.

/soapbox
//get off now
///does anyone really give a shiat about this?


Really? A mommy blog? Random hens gathered together to tell anecdotes as opposed to scientifically collected data on the fact? Those "blogs" won't be happy until we're all walking around in self contained bubbles wearing 6" of padding. For the children.
 
2012-03-13 11:50:45 AM  

funzyr: The argument about autism is a valid one.

There are other issues here, too. What about people who are going to get shingles having never experienced chicken pox? What happens to the next generation of people who don't have the immune systems to fight off a simple cold because their bodies don't ever have to deal with this stuff?

I'm sure I'll get flamed by someone because "science said so" but, until I see real facts and not just some liquid that was thrown together to make people feel better about their snowflakes not getting something that's NOT life-threatening, I will not be convinced.


You show me peer reviewed evidence of your claims, and I'll hand in my MD. Patients like you make my life, and the life of my colleagues miserable because no matter what we present to you or how we apporach this problem with you, your delusions never seem to waver. I'm thinking of starting the next anti-vaccine parent I meet on seroquel. Fix their delusions and their generally obnoxious demanour to boot.
 
2012-03-13 11:51:08 AM  

This text is now purple: KatjaMouse: Good point. And Catholics do tend to get offended when you tell them to stop spraying staff infected holy water over their sick loved ones in a hospital.

You realize you can bless a container of distilled water, right?


I do know this. I was raised Catholic (didn't stick though). However there are hundreds of anecdotes a year about patients yo-yoing while under hospital care, usually getting worse after a relative or friend leaves and they've walked in on said relative on another visit sprinkling water that was gathered from the church font that morning. I actually have a cousin who did this! She and her mom would get water from the church, take to her grandfather who was laid up in an old folks home and spray it over him until staff told her to knock it off. Her mother called up my dad as he was something of the family patriarch and my father called her everything short of retard over the phone.

/these relatives are in the especially derpy part of Florida
//dad is lucky to have gotten out at all
 
2012-03-13 11:51:52 AM  

Belias: And another thing: Why do these journalists insist on getting "both sides" of the issue? "Hmm... we've heard from several respected doctors on the subject, we must now give equal time to a random wacko who believes that anecdote equals data."


God forbid they be called biased and the "Lamestream Media".
 
2012-03-13 11:52:29 AM  

MzUnderstood: Visit any mommy blog to find out. You're obviously not a mom or a parent.


I'm a daddy, not a mommy. But, I sure as hell don't need to go to any blog to proclaim my parenting virtues, condemn others, or listen to anyone else try to extol their own. I also don't want to hear about how special anyone else's snowflake is, or listen to their idiotic ramblings. I'm not a doctor, so I tend to follow the advice prescribed by those who have been properly educated and practice medicine on a daily basis. Do reactions to vaccines occur? Sure, it's a possibility, and quite rare. So no, they don't happen "all the time", but from "time to time", on occasion, across the TENS OF MILLIONS of children being vaccinated. Besides, you are going to hear more people going "OMG OMG OMG MY SICK BABY" instead of "Just got vaccine today. Everything's copasetic". And the negative stuff gets more attention anyways.
 
2012-03-13 11:52:50 AM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Jenny McCarthy has killed more children kittens than the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.


///Fixed it for ya
 
2012-03-13 11:53:03 AM  

discgolfguru: HectorSchwartz: boob and tylenol - .8mL right then and there. It'll cut down on the fever and soreness - - - Which isn't really a big deal unless you like to sleep, because a 6 month old with two sore thighs doesn't sleep.

Truth. But if you think that's fun, wait until they start teething. Good times. Mine's almost 2.


He already has two lowers, they came in right at 4 months. It wasn't pretty. He followed the book to the letter. Started drooling A LOT, next day got diaper rash and fever, next day, BAM, there's a tooth. Two weeks later, same thing.
 
2012-03-13 11:53:46 AM  

fmk040: funzyr: The argument about autism is a valid one.

There are other issues here, too. What about people who are going to get shingles having never experienced chicken pox? What happens to the next generation of people who don't have the immune systems to fight off a simple cold because their bodies don't ever have to deal with this stuff?

I'm sure I'll get flamed by someone because "science said so" but, until I see real facts and not just some liquid that was thrown together to make people feel better about their snowflakes not getting something that's NOT life-threatening, I will not be convinced.

You show me peer reviewed evidence of your claims, and I'll hand in my MD. Patients like you make my life, and the life of my colleagues miserable because no matter what we present to you or how we apporach this problem with you, your delusions never seem to waver. I'm thinking of starting the next anti-vaccine parent I meet on seroquel. Fix their delusions and their generally obnoxious demanour to boot.


Not only will the seroquel fix there delusions, it will probably make them gain weight as well so they will be less likely to reproduce because no one will want to fark their fat ass. I like your thinking.
 
2012-03-13 11:54:34 AM  

MzUnderstood: Visit any mommy blog to find out.


No. I'm fairly certain that the more time spent on mommy blogs talking about the little darling's poopy, eye color, or temper tantrums is less time spent being an effective mommy. Compound that with confirmation bias, end of the world panic, and catty mommies trying to one up each other. I'm too good a parent to visit a mommy blog. Fark is, at least occasionally, educational.
 
2012-03-13 11:55:37 AM  

MzUnderstood: Ok, I lied, here's another one that was posted on fb right after I trolled here for a moment. What a co-inky-dink.

http://www.NaturalNews.com/Vaccines_Get_the_Full_Story.html

The admins just green this stuff to watch the shiat fly. Oh, and give all you farkers something to do.

Somewhere back in all these posts was someone saying that adverse reactions, like 106º fevers don't happen all the time, as the Doc said. Well. Sorry to tell you, yes, they do. Visit any mommy blog to find out. You're obviously not a mom or a parent.

/soapbox
//get off now
///does anyone really give a shiat about this?


Its a mommy blog. You automatically have a selection bias because people who had problems have a far greater incentive to post and ask for advice than someone whose kid had no reactions at all.

The Doctor is also facing a selection bias because he is treating patients who requires help. He is also at a large children's hospital so he is going to get a higher degree of specialized cases when parents push the red panic button and burn rubber to the ER as opposed to their neighborhood doc. You know who don't require help and far outstrip severe reactions? People with zero or minor reactions.

The plural of anecdote isn't data.

Severe reactions to vaccines are reportable illness, which means incidence of it occuring is required/recomended to be sent onward to CDC/NIH or someone (not sure who). Because of record keeping involved with numbers of vaccines bought/used we also know the total number of doses given out in a given year. THIS is data. Every single year a panel of experts reviews this data and asks the question: "do we need to change the schedule?"

Every. Single. Year.

This stuff isn't pulled out of a hat or determined via dartboard. Its cold, dispassionate numbers and statistics. I know, from personal experience, that it sucks to be on the receiving end of an unlikely event. But the fact that it happened to YOU doesn't increase the odds of it occuring to the person next to you. Everyone rolls the dice everyday. Depending on your body, immune system, or health the odds are more, or less, in your favor.

Good Luck. Thats Life.
 
2012-03-13 11:56:00 AM  
well we can just take the recent pertussis outbreaks as an example. Funny that they are occurring in people that have ALREADY BEEN VACCINATED AGAINST IT. But everyone should get vaccines because they are effective.

Its amazing to me that so many people are so willing to be spoon-fed bullshiat and pseudoscience by a for-profit medical establishment, most of which is now designed to push drugs for the pharm companies. But go on, get all your shots, dummies. dumb people are easier to control anyway. now where did I put that remote?
 
2012-03-13 11:56:29 AM  
color me unconvinced

i1057.photobucket.com

doesn't seem worth it
owie! owie!
 
2012-03-13 11:57:16 AM  
these discussions get me so frustrated, because it is obvious that a lot of people don't understand how vaccines work.

"I got a flu shot, but still got the flu, wtf?"
well, yeah. if you're exposed to the flu virus, that's that. the vaccine will lessen the severity and duration of your illness, but it's not a magic shield that prevents the virus from getting into your body, especially if you're surrounded by coughing, germy co-workers. Influenza is a pretty nasty virus - there's a reason we vaccinate for it, because it is quite capable of killing people (old people, in particular) and leading to complications like pneumonia.

the flu virus is also one of the most rapidly mutating viruses (HIV is the worst), so it's very possible that if you DO get sick, even after a flu shot, that you contracted one of the other strains. remember the Swine Flu panic? H1N1 flu? that wasn't some crazy mutant flu - it was one of the alternate forms of the flu virus that happened to peak during the summer (non-flu season) and caused severe disease in a different population (young adults, rather than old people).

/grad student in immunology
//knows what's up
 
2012-03-13 11:59:52 AM  

wantingout: well we can just take the recent pertussis outbreaks as an example. Funny that they are occurring in people that have ALREADY BEEN VACCINATED AGAINST IT. But everyone should get vaccines because they are effective.

Its amazing to me that so many people are so willing to be spoon-fed bullshiat and pseudoscience by a for-profit medical establishment, most of which is now designed to push drugs for the pharm companies. But go on, get all your shots, dummies. dumb people are easier to control anyway. now where did I put that remote?


5/10? Maybe 6/10?
 
2012-03-13 11:59:58 AM  

wantingout: well we can just take the recent pertussis outbreaks as an example. Funny that they are occurring in people that have ALREADY BEEN VACCINATED AGAINST IT. But everyone should get vaccines because they are effective.

Its amazing to me that so many people are so willing to be spoon-fed bullshiat and pseudoscience by a for-profit medical establishment, most of which is now designed to push drugs for the pharm companies. But go on, get all your shots, dummies. dumb people are easier to control anyway. now where did I put that remote?




Pertussis can still be caught by those who have been vaccinated, especially when it's a number of years after vaccination. Those who have been vaccinated tend to suffer milder attacks and be older and less likely to die from it. Pertussis boosters are also available and quite effective.

Sorry, what was your point?
 
2012-03-13 12:01:02 PM  

wantingout: well we can just take the recent pertussis outbreaks as an example. Funny that they are occurring in people that have ALREADY BEEN VACCINATED AGAINST IT. But everyone should get vaccines because they are effective.

Its amazing to me that so many people are so willing to be spoon-fed bullshiat and pseudoscience by a for-profit medical establishment, most of which is now designed to push drugs for the pharm companies. But go on, get all your shots, dummies. dumb people are easier to control anyway. now where did I put that remote?


I don't think you're one to be talking about pseudoscience. Do us all a favor and stay home and don't contaminate the rest of us.

Pertussis outbreaks are showing up in babies and parents who haven't gotten their shots or boosters. Shots do wear off, you know. It would behoove you not to be such a moron.
 
2012-03-13 12:02:34 PM  

fmk040: funzyr: The argument about autism is a valid one.

There are other issues here, too. What about people who are going to get shingles having never experienced chicken pox? What happens to the next generation of people who don't have the immune systems to fight off a simple cold because their bodies don't ever have to deal with this stuff?

I'm sure I'll get flamed by someone because "science said so" but, until I see real facts and not just some liquid that was thrown together to make people feel better about their snowflakes not getting something that's NOT life-threatening, I will not be convinced.

You show me peer reviewed evidence of your claims, and I'll hand in my MD. Patients like you make my life, and the life of my colleagues miserable because no matter what we present to you or how we apporach this problem with you, your delusions never seem to waver. I'm thinking of starting the next anti-vaccine parent I meet on seroquel. Fix their delusions and their generally obnoxious demanour to boot.


Seroquel gives them the diabeetus. Then you'll have to deal with that crapton of noncompliance.
 
2012-03-13 12:03:02 PM  
I encourage you all to vaccinate yourselves and your children.
 
2012-03-13 12:03:25 PM  

MzUnderstood: Ok, I lied, here's another one that was posted on fb right after I trolled here for a moment. What a co-inky-dink.

http://www.NaturalNews.com/Vaccines_Get_the_Full_Story.html

The admins just green this stuff to watch the shiat fly. Oh, and give all you farkers something to do.


Oh hell, any idiot who believes what they read on Natural News deserves what they get. So go buy more vitamins and pretend germ theory doesn't exist. Just keep your filthy child out of my schools and waiting rooms.
 
2012-03-13 12:04:01 PM  

kidgenius: wantingout: well we can just take the recent pertussis outbreaks as an example. Funny that they are occurring in people that have ALREADY BEEN VACCINATED AGAINST IT. But everyone should get vaccines because they are effective.

Its amazing to me that so many people are so willing to be spoon-fed bullshiat and pseudoscience by a for-profit medical establishment, most of which is now designed to push drugs for the pharm companies. But go on, get all your shots, dummies. dumb people are easier to control anyway. now where did I put that remote?

5/10? Maybe 6/10?


Routine environmental exposure carries with it much less viral load than someone who wasn't vaccinated with a hacking cough sharing a room with you for 10 minutes. Vaccines give your body a head start, but if you are massively exposed to a large enough extent it undoes the advantage. You ever see a slow motion video of someone sneezing? Every single droplet has truckloads of virus.
/Sweet dreams....
 
2012-03-13 12:07:36 PM  

This text is now purple: namegoeshere: gearfab_bastad: Wait till your 6 month-old spends two days in intensive care with a 106 degree fever because doctors like to give three vaccinations in a single shot. Maybe, just maybe everything the medical establishment tells you isn't on the up and up. Even doctors disagree. When I asked the doctor at Dell Children's in Austin if a vaccine can cause a reaction like that - even though our personal pediatrician said it could not - he said "sure, we see it all the time."

Better a high fever from which they recover than polio, smallpox, mumps, etc. from which they die or are permanently, severely disabled.

No one has been inoculated against smallpox for decades.


Because it WORKED!! Neat how that happens, huh? And guess what will never happen with any other preventable major illness as long as there are antivax idiots out there!
 
2012-03-13 12:08:05 PM  

Gothnet: budrojr: The whole vaccine thing is still very much under scientific review.

What do you even mean by this?
If you mean that (like evolution) we have an overwhelming body of evidence that vaccines are effective and are, in fact, probably the single greatest life saver the human race has ever seen BUT we need to constantly examine and review them to see if they can be made better.... I agree.

If you mean "ugh, the science isn't decided maaaan" and you mean to hold open the option that vaccines, in the general case, are ineffective or a net negative, then you're utterly delusional.


The first paragraph. The second paragraph would be delusional. I was hoping people would interpret what I thought was obvious, but I constantly forget this is FARK (as evidenced by some later posters).

And I did have to give myself a -1 for mentioning a natural news article. I hated to do it, but it did have a point.

Vaccines are a great thing people. The benefits far outweigh the risks. Doesn't meant they're perfect. They could be made better. That's all I'm trying to say.
 
2012-03-13 12:10:17 PM  
I think all parents who refuse to vaccinate on non medical grounds should be required to sign an legal document to that effect. A document that can be pulled out and used to prosecute them for abuse should their child contract a disease that causes them harm or death. Perhaps if there were consequences attached to ignorant and misinformed decisions that more parents would be inclined to do the right thing in the first place.
 
2012-03-13 12:10:59 PM  

inner ted: science. it's not like religion at all.


Correct, it's not. You can actually do experiments and research yourself - develop a hypothesis, design tests, document everything, publish your results for review and criticism.

I realize that requires a bit more effort than just going with your gut and flinging poo on the Internet, but you can actually participate in scientific research and help determine facts and develop working theories, as opposed to just screaming "NO U".
 
2012-03-13 12:11:53 PM  

Xenomech: Thunderpipes: Already gave him the liberalism shot, he has a job at 7 months old.

Ah, child slavery...the calling card of conservatism.


Well played.
 
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