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(USA Today)   More and more doctors are standing up to parents who refuse to vaccinate their children and telling them to go fark themselves   (yourlife.usatoday.com) divider line 433
    More: Hero, whooping cough, vaccination schedule, vices, HPV Vaccine, pediatricians, vaccines, refuses, Brentwood  
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15803 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2012 at 9:51 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-13 10:25:32 AM
2 Things:

A) I've never had a Flu shot in my life, caught flu once or twice but had my OWN body fight it off.

B) Have gotten all the other needed vaccinations out there, cause i would really not prefer to get polio, and neither did my parents. I thank them a lot for that.

EXCEPT for the flue shot, which has been pointed out in this thread as being an erratic hit-and-miss chance of actually preventing the strains currently available, what precisely gives parents the idea that they know more about these vaccinations and the diseases they prevent in children than the doctors themselves? What precisely? Some Coont who said some shait on TV? Please link me a study or 5 which proves that vaccinations for X disease causes autism. I'll wait.

If you know better than doctors, why take them to hospital. You can save ALL that MONEY just curing your children yourself at home. The "as a parent" excuse is BS. You are not a doctor, and you're keeping your child's health hostage to such stupidity. Do you go up to the school bus driver and say "As a parent, i believe a different rout would be more beneficial to you"?

If i ever manage to bypass my social obstacles and manage to breed, i'll pump my kids with every conceivable vaccination there is. Preventative measures, ppl!
 
2012-03-13 10:25:55 AM
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/6991506/75537194#c75537194" target="_blank">gearfab_bastad</a>:</b> <i>Wait till your 6 month-old spends two days in intensive care with a 106 degree fever because doctors like to give three vaccinations in a single shot. Maybe, just maybe everything the medical establishment tells you isn't on the up and up. Even doctors disagree. When I asked the doctor at Dell Children's in Austin if a vaccine can cause a reaction like that - even though our personal pediatrician said it could not - he said "sure, we see it all the time."</i>

This happened to me. I had a violent reaction and almost died because of the triple vaccine combination. Fortunately, I survived and I didn't wind up with autism... but I do have a debilitating neurological disorder, so who knows, right? I truly doubt there is any connection and vaccines are good, but I have to be careful when I get boosters. My doctor will only do one at a time.
 
2012-03-13 10:27:20 AM

Rootus: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Screw the parents. Who are they to say what can be done to their kids.

Fark, you scare me.

I think kids should be immunized, but it's not up to me, and it's not up to you.

Absolutely! Liberty for everyone. Including the people who don't want to be exposed to someone who hasn't been vaccinated. So go ahead, don't vaccinate your kids. But accept the consequences like an adult -- your choices for doctors, schools, etc, may be considerably more limited as a result. Liberty goes both ways.


Absolutely. Public schools should not allow kids who are not vaccinated to enroll.
 
2012-03-13 10:27:25 AM

SpinStopper: I have a couple of friends who are VERY much still on the Jenny McCarthy Vaccination Autism bandwagon. They have a kid with autism, and they KNOW that vaccines caused it. Don't confuse them with facts or logic, 'cause you'll just piss them off and prove how ignorant YOU are ;)


filmdrunk.uproxx.com
 
2012-03-13 10:27:32 AM

Janusdog: PlatinumDragon: *saving throw against antivax trolls*

The Wakefield "research" was a complete fraud, never mind a ridiculously small sample.

I'll take my discomfort with social settings and tendency to shut everyone else out over pertussis and polio any day of the week. Maybe one of these parents who yammers on about "families suffer the paaaaaaain of autism!" should try asking their "broken" child whether they'd prefer tetanus, assuming they still believe a causal relationship exists between some unidentified component of some vaccines when a correlational one still hasn't been demonstrated.

Almost daily I wish Andrew Wakefield would get measles and wind up sterile, right before dying in a fire. As much as Jenny McCarthy is responsible for facilitating child death, he is patient zero of the retard epidemic.


I actually do wish so. Do you know why he published his paper? He had developed his own measles vaccine but didn't get the production contract. It was a professional hatchet job in an attempt to push his alternative vaccine. It didn't have quite the desired effect, but boy did it bring about a whole host of other bullshiat.

The laboratory involved didn't even use FARKING CONTROLS. And that wasn't the biggest issue.
 
2012-03-13 10:28:00 AM

qorkfiend: ringersol: if you're not going to trust science and medicine, wtf are you at the doctor's office for in the first place?

A more pertinent question has never been asked.


Because they love doctors when doctors tell them what they want to hear and get them services.

I used to do some assessments of children with autism. We had two kinds of parents. The parents that grieved but nearly immediately became interested in what the science was telling them about autism. And then we had wackjobs that kept delaying getting their kid evidence-based behavioral help because they were looking for some "toxin" or some miracle cure. Meanwhile their kid fell further and further behind in speech, which was the #1 predictor of improvement and future independence in kids with autism. But no...they would rather just test their hair, give them random MRIs, tell us we didn't know what we were talking about when it came to chelation, and of course...it's because the doctor gave them the MMR.

All these people will do is find doctors who are as wack as they are. And they exist, I've met them.
 
2012-03-13 10:28:52 AM

SpinStopper: thisisyourbrainonFark: Time to post this Penn & Teller linkage again, I see.

Link (new window)

Thanks. I've tried to use that same argument, but nowhere near as effectively as they did ;)




I don't care on which side they fall, Penn & Teller are a bunch of opinionated loudmouths and not scientists. They are wrong as often as they are right.
It's entertainment not peer reviewed science. Stick to sawing ladies in half.
 
2012-03-13 10:29:44 AM

Smoking GNU:

If you know better than doctors, why take them to hospital. You can save ALL that MONEY just curing your children yourself at home. The "as a parent" excuse is BS. You are not a doctor, and you're keeping your child's health hostage to such stupidity. Do you go up to the school bus driver and say "As a parent, i believe a different rout would be more beneficial to you"?

If i ever manage to bypass my social obstacles and manage to breed, i'll pump my kids with every conceivable vaccination there is. Preventative measures, ppl!


That's great. I'm going to piss off a lot of people on facebook riffing on that.

As a parent, I feel that measles are caused by some type of African voodoo curse. This is not to be confused with the mumps which, as a parent, I feel is caused by the mummy's curse. Totally different.
 
2012-03-13 10:29:59 AM

Splinshints: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I think kids should be immunized, but it's not up to me, and it's not up to you.

"I don't think people should be able to fire automatic weapons indiscriminately in public, but it's not up to me, and it's not up to you."

You don't have to right to do whatever you want when what you're doing has no discernible benefit and poses obvious risks to innocent bystanders. This is not a new concept.



Your analogy skills suck.
 
2012-03-13 10:30:22 AM
Anti-vax is a modern mental disorder caused by generational amnesia.

Ask an older person to recall pre-1960s America where the fear of polio, measles, mumps, etc claimed family members and friends regularly. Heck, I remember kids and aduts with braces on their legs in the early '70s.

This latter day ignorance of medical advances which have spared millions of people from death or life-long disability is testament to our failed educational system and media to remind us of the past.
 
2012-03-13 10:30:27 AM

SpinStopper: I have a couple of friends who are VERY much still on the Jenny McCarthy Vaccination Autism bandwagon. They have a kid with autism, and they KNOW that vaccines caused it. Don't confuse them with facts or logic, 'cause you'll just piss them off and prove how ignorant YOU are ;)


I have an uncle like this, minus the autistic kid. He thinks Dr. Wakefield is the victim of a smear campaign from Big Pharma (BOOGA BOOGA). You're not allowed to argue about this topic with him until you've read ALL of the "research articles" linking vaccines to autism. If you ever talk to them about this again ask them to fill in the blank:

1) Give kids autism
2) __________
3) Profit

I've never gotten a straight answer. Just a lot of changing the subject.
 
2012-03-13 10:30:33 AM

Gabrielmot: xsarien: I got the flu shot in November (or so) and still wound up with the flu. This isn't the fault of the vaccine not doing its job, it's what I'm presuming to be the vaccine's inability to defend against several days of close contact with co-workers who come to work coughing and wheezing instead of staying home like they're supposed to.

/ Admittedly, not a medical professional
// Just seems reasonable that the flu shot isn't meant to be bulletproof
/// If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me, and call me a jerk

Flu shots, IMO, are pointless unless you have a weakened immune system, are a child, or elderly. Why? Well, flu shots are typically made to attack *last year's flu virus* and may not affect any new mutated versions of the flu virus you encounter after your shot.

Now there *is* a small chance that the same strain of flu from last year is still around and it will help you fight it, but stop being a pansy and let your immune system do what it was designed for. -Seriously, if we can't let our bodies fight small things like the flu, we're just making it more dangerous when there *isn't* a flu shot next time. -Same thing goes for hand sanitation out there not being used by someone doing surgery. Any idea why we have resistant bacteria now? And the same thing can be said about the overuse of antibiotics... You don't need them for a cold, suck it up and get some orange juice.

On the other hand, immunizations for children for serious things like mumps, measles, rubella, etc. are obviously important and very necessary. -Try not to compare these to flu shots.


There is mounting evidence that a bad case of the flu will have life long negative health consequences, not to mention the issue of in utero exposure. And then there are issues of the flu aggravating other chronic conditions, etc.

You're comparison between antibiotics and the flu vaccine doesn't hold water.

/I know, citation needed... I'm at work, I shouldn't even be here....
 
2012-03-13 10:30:48 AM

SpinStopper: thisisyourbrainonFark: Time to post this Penn & Teller linkage again, I see.

Link (new window)

Thanks. I've tried to use that same argument, but nowhere near as effectively as they did ;)


No problem. Pretty damn hard to refute.
 
2012-03-13 10:31:31 AM
The argument about autism is a valid one.

There are other issues here, too. What about people who are going to get shingles having never experienced chicken pox? What happens to the next generation of people who don't have the immune systems to fight off a simple cold because their bodies don't ever have to deal with this stuff?

I'm sure I'll get flamed by someone because "science said so" but, until I see real facts and not just some liquid that was thrown together to make people feel better about their snowflakes not getting something that's NOT life-threatening, I will not be convinced.
 
2012-03-13 10:32:02 AM

xsarien: I got the flu shot in November (or so) and still wound up with the flu. This isn't the fault of the vaccine not doing its job, it's what I'm presuming to be the vaccine's inability to defend against several days of close contact with co-workers who come to work coughing and wheezing instead of staying home like they're supposed to.

/ Admittedly, not a medical professional
// Just seems reasonable that the flu shot isn't meant to be bulletproof
/// If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me, and call me a jerk


I had the same problem. Got the flu shot at work, but had to work a 28 hour shift because a storage array went down.

No sleep+stress+lack of good nutrition= compromised immune system
 
2012-03-13 10:32:34 AM

Wicked Chinchilla: Janusdog: PlatinumDragon: *saving throw against antivax trolls*

The Wakefield "research" was a complete fraud, never mind a ridiculously small sample.

I'll take my discomfort with social settings and tendency to shut everyone else out over pertussis and polio any day of the week. Maybe one of these parents who yammers on about "families suffer the paaaaaaain of autism!" should try asking their "broken" child whether they'd prefer tetanus, assuming they still believe a causal relationship exists between some unidentified component of some vaccines when a correlational one still hasn't been demonstrated.

Almost daily I wish Andrew Wakefield would get measles and wind up sterile, right before dying in a fire. As much as Jenny McCarthy is responsible for facilitating child death, he is patient zero of the retard epidemic.

I actually do wish so. Do you know why he published his paper? He had developed his own measles vaccine but didn't get the production contract. It was a professional hatchet job in an attempt to push his alternative vaccine. It didn't have quite the desired effect, but boy did it bring about a whole host of other bullshiat.

The laboratory involved didn't even use FARKING CONTROLS. And that wasn't the biggest issue.


Yes, I know that he was interested in getting pharma contracts, which is part of the reason why his license was stripped. I believe he is hiding out in Texas now and travels the US with a trail of people kissing his ass.

Orac from Respectful Insolence (new window) rips on him all the time. I enjoy reading it, until his legion of buttmonkeys show up to tell everyone they're wrooooooong about Andy!
 
2012-03-13 10:32:39 AM

gearfab_bastad: Wait till your 6 month-old spends two days in intensive care with a 106 degree fever because doctors like to give three vaccinations in a single shot. Maybe, just maybe everything the medical establishment tells you isn't on the up and up. Even doctors disagree. When I asked the doctor at Dell Children's in Austin if a vaccine can cause a reaction like that - even though our personal pediatrician said it could not - he said "sure, we see it all the time."


So Sarah Palin is automatically president?
 
2012-03-13 10:33:08 AM

MightyPez: a storage array went down.


EMC causes the flu! i KNEW it!
 
2012-03-13 10:33:30 AM
Whee, anecdotal evidence! I'll see your autistic vaccinated kid and raise you my friend with five kids: the first four vaccinated on schedule, and the youngest a victim of the Jenny McCarthy insanity, not vaccinated on shedule. One of these children is autistic. Guess which one.

/Rain Man was eventually fully vaccinated.
//after the diagnosis, though
 
2012-03-13 10:33:34 AM

hinten: SpinStopper: thisisyourbrainonFark: Time to post this Penn & Teller linkage again, I see.

Link (new window)

Thanks. I've tried to use that same argument, but nowhere near as effectively as they did ;)



I don't care on which side they fall, Penn & Teller are a bunch of opinionated loudmouths and not scientists. They are wrong as often as they are right.
It's entertainment not peer reviewed science. Stick to sawing ladies in half.


You know how I know you didn't watch the video?
 
2012-03-13 10:33:56 AM

lohphat: Anti-vax is a modern mental disorder caused by generational amnesia.

Ask an older person to recall pre-1960s America where the fear of polio, measles, mumps, etc claimed family members and friends regularly. Heck, I remember kids and aduts with braces on their legs in the early '70s.

This latter day ignorance of medical advances which have spared millions of people from death or life-long disability is testament to our failed educational system and media to remind us of the past.


Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. And a lot of innocent people will die.
 
2012-03-13 10:34:21 AM

funzyr: The argument about autism is a valid one.

There are other issues here, too. What about people who are going to get shingles having never experienced chicken pox? What happens to the next generation of people who don't have the immune systems to fight off a simple cold because their bodies don't ever have to deal with this stuff?

I'm sure I'll get flamed by someone because "science said so" but, until I see real facts and not just some liquid that was thrown together to make people feel better about their snowflakes not getting something that's NOT life-threatening, I will not be convinced.


How is that smallpox working out for you? Polio?

The eradication of these diseases is directly attributable to vaccines. It's not imaginary.
 
2012-03-13 10:35:53 AM

funzyr: What about people who are going to get shingles having never experienced chicken pox?


There's a vaccine for that.
 
2012-03-13 10:35:55 AM

HectorSchwartz: boob and tylenol - .8mL right then and there. It'll cut down on the fever and soreness - - - Which isn't really a big deal unless you like to sleep, because a 6 month old with two sore thighs doesn't sleep.


Truth. But if you think that's fun, wait until they start teething. Good times. Mine's almost 2.
 
2012-03-13 10:36:59 AM

Janusdog: All these people will do is find doctors who are as wack as they are


That right there is a huge part of the problem. Doctors are a lot like engineers in this respect. Most of us are sane rational people but being completely crazy doesn't always prevent us from doing our job. I've met engineers who use formulas based on hard science but deny evolution. I've met engineers who thought that the President was Kenyan and out to enact Islamic law on America. I know two people who work where I do who were referred to a reflexology clinic by their doctor, although that may just be smart way to get around the rules saying they can't prescribe a placebo.
 
2012-03-13 10:37:10 AM

seadoo2006: Thunderpipes: Aarontology: As an adult, I can be held legally liable for knowingly spreading disease.

We should hold parents who don't vaccinate their kids to the same standards.

Well, they could only spread disease to people who are not vaccinated, correct?

Sucks giving my little boy the shots, but I am a reasonable person. You really do have to be a farking moron to not do it. He got 3 of em at 6 months, was not a happy camper. Stick a boob in his mouth, he is fine.

Already gave him the liberalism shot, he has a job at 7 months old.

You know, I was about " " this close from complementing you on the first troll-free post of your tenure here on Fark, but then the last line puts you right back in troll status.

Sigh, oh well, one can certainly still hope ...


Wait, you consider that trolling? Do you even know what trolling is?
 
2012-03-13 10:37:10 AM

discgolfguru: HectorSchwartz: boob and tylenol - .8mL right then and there. It'll cut down on the fever and soreness - - - Which isn't really a big deal unless you like to sleep, because a 6 month old with two sore thighs doesn't sleep.

Truth. But if you think that's fun, wait until they start teething. Good times. Mine's almost 2.


Frozen bagels. Best things evar.
 
2012-03-13 10:37:18 AM
I think its funny that she speaks about her patients who are vaccinated coming in to her office thinking they're safe against a disease that someone else in the waiting room may have.

They are vaccinated, right? Shouldn't that make them feel safe enough?

Nevermind. Im staying out of this shiatstorm.

/trolling on FARK.
//always a fun thread
///vaccinated
 
2012-03-13 10:37:18 AM

BurnShrike: lohphat: Anti-vax is a modern mental disorder caused by generational amnesia.

Ask an older person to recall pre-1960s America where the fear of polio, measles, mumps, etc claimed family members and friends regularly. Heck, I remember kids and aduts with braces on their legs in the early '70s.

This latter day ignorance of medical advances which have spared millions of people from death or life-long disability is testament to our failed educational system and media to remind us of the past.

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. And a lot of innocent people will die.


The reason that this ignorance exists, especially in America, is that science and math (and probability) are for "geeks". Innumeracy and scientific illiteracy is horrifying. Do you know that we in the US are second LAST in acceptance of evolution? Do you know who is last? Turkey.

Until the general public stops trying to eliminate "pointy headed intellectualism", yes, people are going to die and suffer from things that are completely preventable.
 
2012-03-13 10:37:25 AM

SmellsLikePoo: Gabrielmot: xsarien: I got the flu shot in November (or so) and still wound up with the flu. This isn't the fault of the vaccine not doing its job, it's what I'm presuming to be the vaccine's inability to defend against several days of close contact with co-workers who come to work coughing and wheezing instead of staying home like they're supposed to.

/ Admittedly, not a medical professional
// Just seems reasonable that the flu shot isn't meant to be bulletproof
/// If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me, and call me a jerk

Flu shots, IMO, are pointless unless you have a weakened immune system, are a child, or elderly. Why? Well, flu shots are typically made to attack *last year's flu virus* and may not affect any new mutated versions of the flu virus you encounter after your shot.

Now there *is* a small chance that the same strain of flu from last year is still around and it will help you fight it, but stop being a pansy and let your immune system do what it was designed for. -Seriously, if we can't let our bodies fight small things like the flu, we're just making it more dangerous when there *isn't* a flu shot next time. -Same thing goes for hand sanitation out there not being used by someone doing surgery. Any idea why we have resistant bacteria now? And the same thing can be said about the overuse of antibiotics... You don't need them for a cold, suck it up and get some orange juice.

On the other hand, immunizations for children for serious things like mumps, measles, rubella, etc. are obviously important and very necessary. -Try not to compare these to flu shots.

There is mounting evidence that a bad case of the flu will have life long negative health consequences, not to mention the issue of in utero exposure. And then there are issues of the flu aggravating other chronic conditions, etc.

You're comparison between antibiotics and the flu vaccine doesn't hold water.

/I know, citation needed... I'm at work, I shouldn't even be here....


The Great Influenza: The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History by John Barry does a decent job of illustrating this anecdotally ( I know..not data..) The rest of what you said is true though, I am just too lazy to search for the studies ATM...

People need to keep in mind that the average flu season kills approximately 30,000 people a year in the United States. Not sickens, kills. Influenza is a sickness that knocks you on your ass for several days at a time. That sniffle you kicked in 2 days with a bit of a cough was a cold.
 
2012-03-13 10:37:56 AM

Smoking GNU: 2 Things:

A) I've never had a Flu shot in my life, caught flu once or twice but had my OWN body fight it off.

B) Have gotten all the other needed vaccinations out there, cause i would really not prefer to get polio, and neither did my parents. I thank them a lot for that.

EXCEPT for the flue shot, which has been pointed out in this thread as being an erratic hit-and-miss chance of actually preventing the strains currently available, what precisely gives parents the idea that they know more about these vaccinations and the diseases they prevent in children than the doctors themselves? What precisely? Some Coont who said some shait on TV? Please link me a study or 5 which proves that vaccinations for X disease causes autism. I'll wait.

If you know better than doctors, why take them to hospital. You can save ALL that MONEY just curing your children yourself at home. The "as a parent" excuse is BS. You are not a doctor, and you're keeping your child's health hostage to such stupidity. Do you go up to the school bus driver and say "As a parent, i believe a different rout would be more beneficial to you"?

If i ever manage to bypass my social obstacles and manage to breed, i'll pump my kids with every conceivable vaccination there is. Preventative measures, ppl!


My wife was actually part of some of the research that went into this. She is the one arguing against our kids being vaccinated. She is the one who knows a lot more about this than the doctors, and I probably know more about the varicella zoster virus than most parents.

There are risks, because this is a herpes virus. These last forever. (Despite what my brother may think.)
 
2012-03-13 10:38:22 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: lohphat: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Screw the parents. Who are they to say what can be done to their kids.

Fark, you scare me.

I think kids should be immunized, but it's not up to me, and it's not up to you.

Yay! The defender of ignorance and disease has arrived!

Yay, the stupid fark that has no reading comprehension.

Re-read my post.


I did.

I stand by my statement. It IS up to us to actively shun and exclude these people from society.
 
2012-03-13 10:38:56 AM

moonage daydream: Thunderpipes:

Already gave him the liberalism shot, he has a job at 7 months old.

You know, I was about " " this close from complementing you on the first troll-free post of your tenure here on Fark, but then the last line puts you right back in troll status.

Sigh, oh well, one can certainly still hope ...

Wait, you consider that trolling? Do you even know what trolling is?


What part of that isn't trolling?
 
2012-03-13 10:39:15 AM
I've never seen a better example of "white people problems" than this topic. People are raising a stink because their doctors want to give their kids vaccinations.
 
2012-03-13 10:39:31 AM

Kit Fister: Sad part is, a friend's kid, who is a doctor, is not going to vaccinate his kid. WTF?!


Kids a doctor already? Kids got a kid too!!!
 
2012-03-13 10:40:36 AM
HotWingConspiracy Ever meet one of those folks who were first in line for the polio vaccine????

Yea, they were placed in an iron lung machine.......right next to those who actually contracted polio without the vaccine.

If you are going to play researcher at least try and learn about the polio vaccine variations that were used in the beginning.
 
2012-03-13 10:40:45 AM

funzyr: The argument about autism is a valid one.


No. No, it farking isn't. It never was.
 
2012-03-13 10:40:50 AM

Janusdog: funzyr: The argument about autism is a valid one.

There are other issues here, too. What about people who are going to get shingles having never experienced chicken pox? What happens to the next generation of people who don't have the immune systems to fight off a simple cold because their bodies don't ever have to deal with this stuff?

I'm sure I'll get flamed by someone because "science said so" but, until I see real facts and not just some liquid that was thrown together to make people feel better about their snowflakes not getting something that's NOT life-threatening, I will not be convinced.

How is that smallpox working out for you? Polio?

The eradication of these diseases is directly attributable to vaccines. It's not imaginary.


Strawman argument?

namegoeshere: funzyr: What about people who are going to get shingles having never experienced chicken pox?

There's a vaccine for that.


7/10. Good show.
 
2012-03-13 10:41:27 AM

funzyr: The argument about autism is a valid one.


No, it isn't.

The original 'research' was fraudulent.
No further studies have shown any connection between vaccines and autism.
This argument is done.


funzyr: There are other issues here, too. What about people who are going to get shingles having never experienced chicken pox? What happens to the next generation of people who don't have the immune systems to fight off a simple cold because their bodies don't ever have to deal with this stuff?

I'm sure I'll get flamed by someone because "science said so" but, until I see real facts and not just some liquid that was thrown together to make people feel better about their snowflakes not getting something that's NOT life-threatening, I will not be convinced.


Chickenpox kills people. Not many, perhaps, but it can kill. There seems to be an increase in shingles in populations that vaccinate. You'd have to do the maths to decide what chances you'd like to take with your life vs possible shingles later. Keep in mind that if you're not vaccinated and survive the disease (very likely) you still have the chance of shingles later.
 
2012-03-13 10:41:44 AM
Good
 
2012-03-13 10:41:45 AM

thisisyourbrainonFark: hinten: SpinStopper: thisisyourbrainonFark: Time to post this Penn & Teller linkage again, I see.

Link (new window)

Thanks. I've tried to use that same argument, but nowhere near as effectively as they did ;)



I don't care on which side they fall, Penn & Teller are a bunch of opinionated loudmouths and not scientists. They are wrong as often as they are right.
It's entertainment not peer reviewed science. Stick to sawing ladies in half.

You know how I know you didn't watch the video?


What does that have to do with what I am saying?
Do you know how I know that you didn't comprehend what I wrote?
 
2012-03-13 10:42:26 AM

Janusdog: funzyr: The argument about autism is a valid one.

There are other issues here, too. What about people who are going to get shingles having never experienced chicken pox? What happens to the next generation of people who don't have the immune systems to fight off a simple cold because their bodies don't ever have to deal with this stuff?

I'm sure I'll get flamed by someone because "science said so" but, until I see real facts and not just some liquid that was thrown together to make people feel better about their snowflakes not getting something that's NOT life-threatening, I will not be convinced.

How is that smallpox working out for you? Polio?

The eradication of these diseases is directly attributable to vaccines. It's not imaginary.


Except, there have been recent reports of both diseases appearing in immigrant populations, who don't want to vaccinate their kids due to government mistrust. Back in the 60's, I remember being told we couldn't come to school until all of us kids got our vaccinations. Don't they do that anymore?

/no kids
//stupid Jenny McCarthy
 
2012-03-13 10:42:28 AM

gadian: funzyr: The argument about autism is a valid one.

No. No, it farking isn't. It never was.


How so?
 
2012-03-13 10:42:45 AM

Egoy3k: Janusdog: All these people will do is find doctors who are as wack as they are

That right there is a huge part of the problem. Doctors are a lot like engineers in this respect. Most of us are sane rational people but being completely crazy doesn't always prevent us from doing our job. I've met engineers who use formulas based on hard science but deny evolution. I've met engineers who thought that the President was Kenyan and out to enact Islamic law on America. I know two people who work where I do who were referred to a reflexology clinic by their doctor, although that may just be smart way to get around the rules saying they can't prescribe a placebo.


I don't know about your last point. I went to school in public health with a lot of physicians, and they were getting this complementary medicine stuff pounded in their head.

I don't particularly care if someone wants to spend their own money on acupuncture, or Chinese weeds, or cupping (although, how dumb are you?). I do care when they won't treat their kids or pets appropriately because of woo. And the woo lobby has done a good job of obscuring the science so even decent doctors refer sometimes.

Right now I have my personal trainer after me to try chiropractic for my shoulder tear. She tells me he moves her shoulder around so it pops out and back in and it's awesome! It took me a year to rehab my shoulder through PT and training to avoid surgery, so no thanks.

There's just no reasoning with people sometimes.
 
2012-03-13 10:43:20 AM

BurnShrike: The very fact that people are questioning the safety of a vaccine that prevents a horrible, horrible disease (such as polio) with regard to the extremely small chance of having a reaction to it, just goes to show how effective our vaccine program has been. If you'd actually witnessed the devastation this one disease has caused throughout history, there is no way you would not vaccinate your kids.


It's just another example of the anti-intellectualism and baseless sense of superiority that has invaded the American mindset.

Never mind the enormous and historically unprecedented advances that modern science has given us, some guy who claims he's a scientist told me otherwise, so everybody else is wrong!

For 99,750 years fire, basic stone and metal tools, and simple wood and stone housing was virtually the entirety of human advancement. In the 250 years after that we have conquered diseases that we not only didn't know about for the prior ninety nine thousand years, but stem from a view of the biological world that most of our predecessors couldn't even dream of. Men and women of science have given us the ability to reconstruct our damaged bodies in incredible ways, to turn wounds and diseases that were previously a death sentence into something you pop a pill smaller than a penny to cure. To outright prevent crippling disease by simply rubbing a small, soluble, nicely-scented bar between our hands after using the toilet.

In a few generations we went from being victims of our planet to ruling it on the molecular level.

But fark all that. Clearly supermodels and angry stay at home moms who never done anything more significant than spread their legs are much more qualified than all these people with all their amazing accomplishments and education and data because somebody on the radio said so.

I wish I was British. Calling people like that "farking wankers" sounds so much better than anything American I have for them....
 
2012-03-13 10:43:46 AM

Gothnet:

Chickenpox kills people. Not many, perhaps, but it can kill. There seems to be an increase in shingles in populations that vaccinate. You'd have to do the maths to decide what chances you'd like to take with your life vs possible shingles later. Keep in mind that if you're not vaccinated and survive the disease (very likely) you still have the chance of shingles later.


That's what I was trying to say.
 
2012-03-13 10:44:03 AM

funzyr: until I see real facts and not just some liquid that was thrown together to make people feel better about their snowflakes not getting something that's NOT life-threatening, I will not be convinced


If you think that a vaccine is 'thrown together' you are gravely mistaken. Also farking polio, measles, mumps and rubella are all serious conditions that can kill or sterilize people who contract them.

this no a case of trying to prevent discomfort it's a case of preventing crippling, serialization and DEATH. If you don't understand the consequences of these diseases maybe you aren't informed enough to take an aspirin without assistance, let alone give medical advice.
 
2012-03-13 10:44:16 AM
Don't vaccinate me, Breaux
 
2012-03-13 10:44:41 AM

funzyr: namegoeshere: funzyr: What about people who are going to get shingles having never experienced chicken pox?

There's a vaccine for that.

7/10. Good show.


Oh noes! Someone refuted my argument by pointing out the obvious flaw! They must be trolling!! (new window)
 
2012-03-13 10:44:57 AM

namegoeshere: Frozen bagels. Best things evar.


For teething? Tell me more. I've only just got past the first 9 weeks and am finally getting some sleep but realise that teething's a biatch!
 
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