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(Indecision Forever)   "Screwing up your life is the American way" (sponsored link)   (indecisionforever.com) divider line 156
    More: Obvious, Americans, National Federation of Independent Business, Affordable Care Act  
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12184 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Mar 2012 at 12:01 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-12 01:22:28 PM

JackieRabbit: Holy Christ. Did NOBODY notice that this is a spoof article from Comedy Central?


I did. In fact, not only did I notice that, I also noticed the link in the second paragraph that goes to a blog post on the same subject at Think Progress, which in turn cited this article (new window) in the Los Angles Times.

Sometimes I notice things. Like how aggravating it is to have to go rummaging through a big pile of click to get to the straight report.
 
2012-03-12 01:23:21 PM

That Masked Man: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Superjew: Came in for idiot Farkers exclaiming shock at the $5k bankruptcy without realizing that was just a small part of the total debt.

Left unbelievably satisfied.

FTA: The lead plaintiff in the legal case against the Affordable Care Act filed for bankruptcy after accruing nearly $5,000 in medical debt. According to the Los Angeles Times, plaintiff Mary Brown was uninsured last fall when her husband's medical bills stacked up to $4,500. That, combined with other debt they had accumulated, led the couple to file for
bankruptcy:

Small portion? Citation? The article wasn't very well written, but it looks more likely it's $4500 from hubby's issues last fall, and nearly $5k total. There certainly isn't anything to suggest that it's just a "small" portion.

Either way doesn't change the irony that someone who led the charge against the HRA of 2010 ended up bankrupt from medical bills, regardless of the amount of debt. I would argue that the inherent problems with the current system are more obvious the more money these people had. If they had $3k, that's one thing, but if they had $1 million and still went bankrupt that shows that under the current system nearly everyone is an illness/injury away from financial ruin.

Citation:

Lawyers who represent Brown dispute the significance of her bankruptcy. They say her unpaid medical bills were only a small part of her debts and did not cause her bankruptcy. They say that she and her husband owe $55,000 to others, including credit card companies. And they say her financial troubles were caused by the failure of her auto repair shop.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/08/nation/la-na-healthcare-plain t iff-20120309


Every party needs a pooper, and that is why we invited you. You just couldn't let them have their "if you had a single drop of alcohol then it was an alcohol related accident type logic" thread.
 
2012-03-12 01:23:54 PM

JackieRabbit: Holy Christ. Did NOBODY notice that this is a spoof article from Comedy Central?


http://www.latimes.com/health/la-na-healthcare-plaintiff-20120309,0,6 6 57163.story

It's a real story.
 
2012-03-12 01:26:00 PM
boollette.free.fr

/MAN, I've gotten a lot of mileage out of this gif...especially lately.
 
2012-03-12 01:26:16 PM
tgregory
Health insurance could be like car insurance

Required by law in every state?
 
2012-03-12 01:36:59 PM
Canadian health care anecdote for the hell of it.

A midwife throughout my fiancee's pregnancy. $0 (we were planning a home birth for ideological reasons)
A delivery room at a hospital when we were advised that the home birth probably wouldn't be safe. $0
Emergency (within 5 minutes of saying 'yes') C-section when it was becoming obvious that the little bugger wouldn't come out on his own. $0
3 days in a private recovery room. $0.

In fact, the only cost was parking ($15 per day) and food for me.

Yes, you're gonna find universal health care coverage horror stories, but in our experiences with 3 emergency hospital visits in the last four years; her ectopic pregnancy in '08, my broken ankle in '09 and the birth of our son last year, if you need the care, you're going to get it.

I acknowledge that Canadians pay more taxes and have the luxury of a neighbour to the south who handles the practical majority of our defense, but still, whenever I hear someone harping against universal healthcare, I shake my head.
 
2012-03-12 01:41:05 PM

umad:
Every party needs a pooper, and that is why we invited you. You just couldn't let them have their "if you had a single drop of alcohol then it was an alcohol related accident type logic" thread.


I was just about to ratchet the derp up to 11 instead of making a short and clear point, but then I noticed the LA Times article I was looking for was the second google result. I'll work on taking my game to the next level from here on out.
 
2012-03-12 01:41:09 PM
factoryconnection Smartest
Funniest
2012-03-12 01:07:37 PM


doubled99: Ha ha! I'm for free health care for all because I'm deeply sympathetic and a humanitarian.
This biatch doesn't agree pay her debts, driving up the cost for everyone else, and yet is suing to block reforms that would help both her and everyone else, so fark her! Hope she dies!(nobody said this) Ha ha!

FTFY. Sorry that the oppressed right wing has been insulted.




Never voted republican in my life but nice try!
I remember you now. You've been stupid in many threads.
Besides, you're a goddamn bore as well.
Please refrain from commenting or addressing me again.
 
2012-03-12 01:44:11 PM

Vtimlin: kisseswookies: 5K? Pffft! I racked up 20K for my hospital visits. What an amateur. Still haven't filed for bankruptcy, and I guarantee I make less an hour than she does.

The "other debt" was the reason. She said her point is that she doesn't want the government telling her what to do. I agree with her on that. Its not ironic and it doesn't in any way show that she wouldn't have filed for bankruptcy, that story had little to do with Obama care.


False outrage since it has worked so well in the past they just use it until the morons catch on, I doubt they ever will since they love to feel superior even when they lose.
 
2012-03-12 01:46:14 PM

HelloNeuman: steamingpile: pxlboy: schadenfreude
[shahd-n-froi-duh] Origin
scha·den·freu·de
[shahd-n-froi-duh] Show IPA
noun
satisfaction or pleasure felt at someone else's misfortune.
Origin:
1890-95;

Spin the left wing deep fark, you used to be cool.

Can we keep bullshiat like this in the left cheering section? Better known as the fark politics tab? The moron is strong in that tab and if you spend a lot of time there it spreads, as evidenced by what fark has sunk too the past few years.

No you shrunked


I did? Last time I checked I am the same height I always have been.....
 
2012-03-12 01:46:47 PM
I'm sure the tards in this story were all hot and heavy to attack Iraq, a country which was no threat to the US, and was never responsible for so much as a broken American window, yet these same "citizens" will defend to the death their right to be exploited and killed by Wall St.

America is now just too stupid to survive.
 
2012-03-12 01:53:51 PM

Nexzus: Canadian health care anecdote for the hell of it.

A midwife throughout my fiancee's pregnancy. $0 (we were planning a home birth for ideological reasons)
A delivery room at a hospital when we were advised that the home birth probably wouldn't be safe. $0
Emergency (within 5 minutes of saying 'yes') C-section when it was becoming obvious that the little bugger wouldn't come out on his own. $0
3 days in a private recovery room. $0.

In fact, the only cost was parking ($15 per day) and food for me.

Yes, you're gonna find universal health care coverage horror stories, but in our experiences with 3 emergency hospital visits in the last four years; her ectopic pregnancy in '08, my broken ankle in '09 and the birth of our son last year, if you need the care, you're going to get it.

I acknowledge that Canadians pay more taxes and have the luxury of a neighbour to the south who handles the practical majority of our defense, but still, whenever I hear someone harping against universal healthcare, I shake my head.


In emergency situations its great but in instances where you need prolonged health care you will have horror stories, our old ex-in laws came from germany to get cancer treatment because he was told they couldn't get him in until 8-10 months. He was told if he started aggressive treatment immediately he had an 80-90% chance, if not he had a 50/50 chance, he had money so he came to the states for 8 months to get treatment, that was 6 years ago and he's cancer free while coming over here every year for check ups.

Immediate or emergency has never been an issue for healthcare, but don't have a disease that builds over time because you will be at the back of the line.
 
2012-03-12 01:56:34 PM

socodog: $4500 was able to bankrupt them? That's stupid and these people are an outlier statistic.

Something more empirical, please.


I'm pretty sure that would bankrupt everyone in Northern Nevada easily.
 
2012-03-12 01:59:53 PM

Nexzus: I acknowledge that Canadians pay more taxes and have the luxury of a neighbour to the south who handles the practical majority of our defense, but still, whenever I hear someone harping against universal healthcare, I shake my head.


You have to understand how the collective American mind works.

I heard somebody from the Canadian health ministry on CBC a couple of years ago say that yes, Canadians have to wait for non-emergency procedures, but they accept this because all Canadians get the same level of service regardless of wealth.

Americans will accept getting screwed over and farmed for whatever we're worth as long as we can believe that someone else, somewhere, is getting worse. Equality isn't really what we're about.
 
2012-03-12 02:02:15 PM

That Masked Man: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/08/nation/la-na-healthcare-plain t iff-20120309


See, I like that. Thank you. A real response to clear something up. After reading that, yes, the medical bills were only a small portion of the problem. But as I read that I couldn't help but laugh more at what a dumbshiat this person is. She farked herself every way possible, and still hasn't learned her lesson.

And they say her financial troubles were caused by the failure of her auto repair shop.

So, she owned a business, but didn't incorporate it? That's a small price to pay to separate your personal finances from the business so that this type of thing doesn't happen. She farked herself by being short-sighted.

Brown, reached by telephone Thursday, said the medical bills were her husband's. "I always paid my bills, as well as my medical bills," she said angrily.

He's your spouse? They're your bills as well, don't tell me you pay all your bills when you aren't paying all your bills.

"I never said medical insurance is not a necessity.

You never said that, but you railed against making it mandatory.

"It should be anyone's right to what kind of health insurance they have."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a provision that you can choose another insurance policy through a private company instead if you wish?

"I believe that anyone has unforeseen things that happen to them that are beyond their control," Brown said.

Yeah, dumbass, that's what insurance is for.

"Who says I don't have insurance right now?"

She's trying to imply that she now has insurance, but won't actually tell us whether she now has insurance?

But when U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson declared the mandate unconstitutional in January 2011, he pointed to Mary Brown's complaint. "She is a small-business owner" who "does not believe the cost of health insurance is a wise or acceptable use of her resources," he said.

Now that's just funny. I wonder if insurance on the building is a wise use of resources, or insuring their tools from theft is wise. Again, farked herself by being short-sighted.

But by then, Brown's small auto repair shop near Panama City, Fla., had closed, and she and her husband had filed a Chapter 7 bankruptcy petition. Brown said in the petition that her only income was $275 a month in unemployment benefits.

So apparently UI premiums weren't a wise use of resources either. Had they incorporated the business, each of them take a salary, and pay the UI premiums, they would probably max out UI payout. In WI you max it out at about $360/wk if you made more than about $45k last year. Again, she farked herself by being short-sighted.

The business group's lawyers say they weren't backing away from their bankrupt plaintiff. "She wants to continue in the case. And as long as she doesn't want healthcare, she qualifies as a plaintiff in our mind," Harned said.

I assume he meant to say "health insurance" since she obviously has no problem seeking out care. That combined with the statements she made, quoted above, is just awesome.
 
2012-03-12 02:10:43 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: He's your spouse? They're your bills as well, don't tell me you pay all your bills when you aren't paying all your bills.


Another reason never to get married.
 
2012-03-12 02:15:13 PM
"Screwing up your life is the American way"

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
 
2012-03-12 02:16:02 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Don't Troll Me Bro!: He's your spouse? They're your bills as well, don't tell me you pay all your bills when you aren't paying all your bills.

Another reason never to get married.


===========

I'll bet you dollars to donuts that the people in this story are against gay marriage.
 
2012-03-12 02:25:09 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: He's your spouse? They're your bills as well, don't tell me you pay all your bills when you aren't paying all your bills.


Maybe you are confused since you live so close to Canada, but this is America dammit. The difference is that around here, his bills are his bills and her bills are his bills.
 
2012-03-12 02:42:05 PM

tgregory: Health insurance could be like car insurance if the government would get out.


yes....because a neuro surgeon make about the same as a mechanic and it's cost about the same to do a lung transplant as it is to change out your CV joint.
 
2012-03-12 03:01:52 PM

tgregory: Headso: tgregory: You don't use car insurance to get gas, get new tires, or change the oil do you? Why should you have to have insurance for a check-up or to treat the common cold? You have insurance to cover unforeseen "accidents". With the government involvement in creating HMOs, etc... they've now almost made it impossible to afford care otherwise.

If you see a car on the side of the road that is broken down it doesn't illicit the same reaction as if you see a person dying on the side of the road. We have Hippocratic oaths nobody takes an oath to replace leaky brake lines if someone brings in a car with them.


Yes. Human life is more important than a car. I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. Insurance should be held by the person, not employer, and should be affordable enough so that if an accident does occur they are covered. That's how health insurance could be the same as car insurance. Why some of you all went on a human vs vehicle comparison I'm not sure.


A Dark Evil Omen: tgregory: One doesn't need to understand the complete history of something to know that forcing people to participate in a plan that you personally may agree with isn't the right approach in a free society. C'mon now. Use your head.

You're willfully ignorant if you don't see the correlation between government involvement in industries and increased costs. Not to mention governments have no business being involved in such industries - if you are a part of a free society. If you want a totalitarian society where the opinions of others dictate the lives of everyone, sure. Government option is the only option.

Oh, shut the fark up. Go move to Rapture if you don't want to participate in democratic society.

We're not a democratic society. We're a constitutional republic with democratically elected officials. Might be wise to understand where you're coming from before speaking.


I thought we were an autonomous collective...
 
2012-03-12 03:11:25 PM

ashinmytomatoes: tgregory: Headso: tgregory:

I thought we were an autonomous collective...


and now we see the violence inherent in the system

/watery tart
 
2012-03-12 03:11:51 PM

SuperNinjaToad: tgregory: Health insurance could be like car insurance if the government would get out.

yes....because a neuro surgeon make about the same as a mechanic and it's cost about the same to do a lung transplant as it is to change out your CV joint.


Doctors have it easy: they only have to deal with one make and two models.
 
2012-03-12 03:43:13 PM
Only $5,000 in debt? Pfft. When they get up to the $50,000 mark, gimme a call.
 
2012-03-12 03:47:01 PM

czei: SuperNinjaToad: tgregory: Health insurance could be like car insurance if the government would get out.

yes....because a neuro surgeon make about the same as a mechanic and it's cost about the same to do a lung transplant as it is to change out your CV joint.

Doctors have it easy: they only have to deal with one make and two models.


content.internetvideoarchive.com

/agrees, goes to the vet
 
2012-03-12 03:52:16 PM

Headso: tgregory: Insurance should be held by the person, not employer, and should be affordable enough so that if an accident does occur they are covered. That's how health insurance could be the same as car insurance. Why some of you all went on a human vs vehicle comparison I'm not sure.

And if you don't have health insurance or your insurance doesn't cover you? Are you refused treatment like your car would be at the mechanic?


You just park your body in the yard until your next paycheck, duh
 
2012-03-12 03:53:03 PM

Curse of the Goth Kids: JackieRabbit: Holy Christ. Did NOBODY notice that this is a spoof article from Comedy Central?

I did. In fact, not only did I notice that, I also noticed the link in the second paragraph that goes to a blog post on the same subject at Think Progress, which in turn cited this article (new window) in the Los Angles Times.

Sometimes I notice things. Like how aggravating it is to have to go rummaging through a big pile of click to get to the straight report.


My point remains. The Think Progress blog post (like most blog posts and the LA Times) is ridiculous and CC was making fun of it.
 
2012-03-12 03:59:05 PM

Coelacanth: Only $5,000 in debt? Pfft. When they get up to the $50,000 mark, gimme a call.


Yeah. Why the holy hell are they allowed to discharge a paltry amount like $5,000 when the average student loan debt is $25,000? College grads are expected to flip burgers to pay it back (even though those wages aren't enough to ever do so), and these ignorant morans aren't expected to swing $5,000 for a medical emergency their ideology says they should be prepared for?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-03-12 04:15:40 PM

tgregory: A Dark Evil Omen: tgregory: A Dark Evil Omen: tgregory: Health insurance could be like car insurance if the government would get out. human lives were anything like cars.

FTFY, smart guy.


You don't use car insurance to get gas, get new tires, or change the oil do you? Why should you have to have insurance for a check-up or to treat the common cold? You have insurance to cover unforeseen "accidents". With the government involvement in creating HMOs, etc... they've now almost made it impossible to afford care otherwise.

Oh, look, someone else who doesn't know the history of health insurance. Not to mention that you "insurance should only cover emergency care!" toolboxes are exactly backward on what brings and keeps costs down. How is it you can hold a strong opinion on something you know literally less than nothing about?


One doesn't need to understand the complete history of something to know that forcing people to participate in a plan that you personally may agree with isn't the right approach in a free society. C'mon now. Use your head.

You're willfully ignorant if you don't see the correlation between government involvement in industries and increased costs. Not to mention governments have no business being involved in such industries - if you are a part of a free society. If you want a totalitarian society where the opinions of others dictate the lives of everyone, sure. Government option is the only option.


It is mandatory because people would just wait until they got sick before getting insurance, thereby screwing the people who do pay. Trying to make it into a "freedom" issue is as silly as "death panels".
 
2012-03-12 04:19:27 PM

tgregory: Health insurance could be like car insurance if the government would get out.


What, required by law, excessively expensive, and something you should never have to use anyway?
 
2012-03-12 04:33:28 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: tgregory: A Dark Evil Omen: tgregory: Health insurance could be like car insurance if the government would get out. human lives were anything like cars.

FTFY, smart guy.


You don't use car insurance to get gas, get new tires, or change the oil do you? Why should you have to have insurance for a check-up or to treat the common cold? You have insurance to cover unforeseen "accidents". With the government involvement in creating HMOs, etc... they've now almost made it impossible to afford care otherwise.

Oh, look, someone else who doesn't know the history of health insurance. Not to mention that you "insurance should only cover emergency care!" toolboxes are exactly backward on what brings and keeps costs down. How is it you can hold a strong opinion on something you know literally less than nothing about?


Back when insurance was for emergencies health insurance was easily affordable. Now that it has to pay for everything no one can afford the premiums. Maybe you can provide something to back up your assertions.
 
2012-03-12 04:35:37 PM

Vtimlin: kisseswookies: 5K? Pffft! I racked up 20K for my hospital visits. What an amateur. Still haven't filed for bankruptcy, and I guarantee I make less an hour than she does.

The "other debt" was the reason. She said her point is that she doesn't want the government telling her what to do. I agree with her on that. Its not ironic and it doesn't in any way show that she wouldn't have filed for bankruptcy, that story had little to do with Obama care.


And if you are going to file anyway you might as well throw in all the debt you have.
 
2012-03-12 04:56:36 PM
Everyone wants to talk insurance when the real problem is health care costs too much. Health insurance would be cheep if health care was cheep.

Health care is expensive because we have completely separated the payment of health care from the receiving of health care. It no coincidence that the only procedures that have gone down in costs in the last 20 years are those which people have to pay for out of their own pocket.

Any form of single payer is going to make this problem worse not better. Everyone will feel they have the right to go to the hospital and demand to be taken care of no matter weather they have any real problems or not.

The solution should be to reverse the steps we took to get here. Have congress mandate that the only tax deductible form of insurance is HSA. This puts patients back in the loop of deciding weather they really need something or not. It also eliminates the need for "death panels". Grandpa can decide for himself if he wants to blow the 50k he built up in his HAS over his lifetime for another 6 months of hospital stay 1/2 of which he will be in a coma before he dies or go home and die in a month and leave the money to his kids, The way things are now he will hang on because either insurance has to pay for it or under any form of single payer the government does.

This also allows the HSA accounts to be portable when you change jobs or if you want to provide your own insurance.
 
2012-03-12 05:05:05 PM

pdee: Any form of single payer is going to make this problem worse not better.


Every civilized nation on earth disagrees with you.
Try not to shiat yourself while thinking about that too hard.
 
2012-03-12 05:17:21 PM

sharkbeagle: Plenty of people who sacrificed their kids on the Obama altar went broke too. In fact most of Obama's base, the poor, the black, the angry, the stupid, are far far FAR worse off now than they were before. But that won't stop them from voting for him again.


Can you, with a straight face, name anyone else that is running and is going to be on the ticket, is backed by a major party, AND is actually likely to do a better job for the country than Obama has? I'm only asking you to name one - and you should probably say why it is you feel they will do a BETTER job than Obama.

Now, keep in mind, I did not vote for Obama. I am not a Democrat. (When I take those online polls they indicate that I seem to be a left leaning libertarian. I guess that sounds right and seems evidenced by my usual third party voting habits but they are online polls so, who knows?)
 
2012-03-12 05:21:49 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: pdee: Any form of single payer is going to make this problem worse not better.

Every civilized nation on earth disagrees with you.
Try not to shiat yourself while thinking about that too hard.


Not that I'm going to argue the point (I'm in favor of single payer) but that, as a response, is idiotic at best and doesn't actually mean anything. None of those nations are our nation, none of them have had this in place long enough to accept as being valid sources for meaningful discussion, and every civilized nation on Earth has a history of agreeing to all sorts of stupid things. You should seek professional help if you think your comment is, in any way, forwarding the conversation and, in fact, we'd prefer it if you'd not opine further on the subject lest your effort to 'help' actually make it more difficult.

As for meaningful statistics? Call me when they've matured enough so that their regulations haven't changed in, I don't know, a couple hundred years.
 
2012-03-12 05:36:00 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: pdee: Any form of single payer is going to make this problem worse not better.

Every civilized nation on earth disagrees with you.
Try not to shiat yourself while thinking about that too hard.


Really. Can you point to any nation with universal health care whose costs have gone down after implementation?
 
2012-03-12 05:51:03 PM

pdee: Really. Can you point to any nation with universal health care whose costs have gone down after implementation?


You mean the fact that the US's healthcare spending per capita is not only higher than any other developed nation but also rising faster doesn't tell you that our system is totally inferior to other countries' socialized care? Then I don't know what will. Whatever cherry picked factoid you think is going to make our failure of a healthcare system seem less like the turd that it is doesn't stand up to reality.
 
2012-03-12 06:11:38 PM

That Masked Man: Lawyers who represent Brown dispute the significance of her bankruptcy. They say her unpaid medical bills were only a small part of her debts and did not cause her bankruptcy. They say that she and her husband owe $55,000 to others, including credit card companies. And they say her financial troubles were caused by the failure of her auto repair shop.


$4,500 would still account for 7.5% of their debt. That's not exactly trivial.

Specific numbers aside, it shows them as paragons of responsibility whose advice we should value when it comes to financial decisions and risk management topics... right?
 
2012-03-12 06:11:47 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: pdee: Really. Can you point to any nation with universal health care whose costs have gone down after implementation?

You mean the fact that the US's healthcare spending per capita is not only higher than any other developed nation but also rising faster doesn't tell you that our system is totally inferior to other countries' socialized care? Then I don't know what will. Whatever cherry picked factoid you think is going to make our failure of a healthcare system seem less like the turd that it is doesn't stand up to reality.


The USA has far higher rates of obesity, diabetes, drug use and many other health problems as compared to other countries. I suppose universal health care will make everyone get thin, stop using drugs, lower their blood sugar, stop drinking, stop eating fast food, stop smoking, exercise regularly and shoot rainbows out of their collective asses.

News flash USA =/= the rest of the world. UnspokenVoice had it correct. Dont post again until you grow up.
 
2012-03-12 06:21:53 PM

pdee: News flash USA =/= the rest of the world. UnspokenVoice had it correct. Dont post again until you grow up.


I ignored him a long time ago because he expressed the same disdain for facts as you do.

Well, bye.
 
2012-03-12 06:22:58 PM

A Dark Evil Omen:
Know how I know you know nothing about the history of health insurance?


How's this for knowledge? - How did health coverage come about? Well, back during WWII wage caps were put in place to prevent cost increases/'gouging' when war industry was expanding exponentially even as the military was sucking young men out of the job pool. Still, industry needed ways to attract workers. Solution: Offer benefits! Medical care had finally reached the point it was generally safer than not having it, plus many companies started setting up and staffing small medical clinics to provide service. For one thing, if left to their own devices, many workers wouldn't pay and therefore be unable to work for longer periods of time - remember, due to the wage caps workers were much more valuable than their pay.

Ultimately, these small clinics weren't able to keep up with expanding specialized technology, and the in-house clinics combined with the workman's comp, which was actually insurance, to provide coverage at dedicated facilities such as hospitals. Somehow the 'insurance' part of workman's comp was kept.

This system worked better for large industries that kept workers employed for whole careers. In today's society of mobile workforces, and big businesses primed to drop tens of thousands of jobs at the drop of a hat, I see businesses providing healthcare coverage* as a net liability, not a benefit. I'd prefer a carefully regulated(substantially differently than today) private healthcare market, where most healthcare comes out of specialized savings accounts for the purpose, and insurance being just that - for when the savings account is depleted by a serious illness or injury. As a note - I view our current system as so utterly screwed up that a universal public healthcare system would still be substantially superior. Our system carefully takes the worst aspects of a free market and universal coverage and combines them.

*Because it's not insurance
 
2012-03-12 06:25:55 PM

ProfessorOhki: That Masked Man: Lawyers who represent Brown dispute the significance of her bankruptcy. They say her unpaid medical bills were only a small part of her debts and did not cause her bankruptcy. They say that she and her husband owe $55,000 to others, including credit card companies. And they say her financial troubles were caused by the failure of her auto repair shop.

$4,500 would still account for 7.5% of their debt. That's not exactly trivial.

Specific numbers aside, it shows them as paragons of responsibility whose advice we should value when it comes to financial decisions and risk management topics... right?


Let's be serious. You know the article was slanted to seem as if the medical costs were the cornerstone reason for default, and the only reason this is a discussion-worthy bankruptcy revolves around the inclusion of medical costs, not the personal responsibility or lack thereof by the obviously retarded borrower(s?). People are free to take the advice of whomever they like, but if you are listening to a failed small business owner who is only in the news for being broke and ignorant you have much larger problems than a poor position on health care mandates.
 
2012-03-12 06:43:09 PM
To anyone who says health insurance is a waste of money, may I share this little anecdote. Mr. Chick works at a hospital in a low income neighborhood. Management fully expects that at least 40% of all ER patients are uninsured and will never pay. That's 40% of ER patients that the hospital won't see a dime from. Of the 60% left, around 90% are on medicaid, which in the state of Illinois is 18 months behind on payments to hospitals. Some days I'm not sure how they can keep the doors open, they're bleeding money at such a rapid rate.
 
2012-03-12 07:00:40 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: She mad.
Notice how she's marrie but says she pays HER bills. Way to throw your old man under the bus, sweetie. I'm sure he's happy that he chose you.


Yeah, I noticed that too. biatch.
 
2012-03-12 07:04:02 PM

That Masked Man: ProfessorOhki: That Masked Man: Lawyers who represent Brown dispute the significance of her bankruptcy. They say her unpaid medical bills were only a small part of her debts and did not cause her bankruptcy. They say that she and her husband owe $55,000 to others, including credit card companies. And they say her financial troubles were caused by the failure of her auto repair shop.

$4,500 would still account for 7.5% of their debt. That's not exactly trivial.

Specific numbers aside, it shows them as paragons of responsibility whose advice we should value when it comes to financial decisions and risk management topics... right?

Let's be serious. You know the article was slanted to seem as if the medical costs were the cornerstone reason for default, and the only reason this is a discussion-worthy bankruptcy revolves around the inclusion of medical costs, not the personal responsibility or lack thereof by the obviously retarded borrower(s?). People are free to take the advice of whomever they like, but if you are listening to a failed small business owner who is only in the news for being broke and ignorant you have much larger problems than a poor position on health care mandates.


Of course it was slanted; it's Comedy Central and the humor of the article comes from the ironic juxtaposition. Though, I'd argue that personal responsibility or the lack thereof is key to the entire health insurance argument. It highlights that many of the loudest folks on the issue are the ones least capable of even taking care of themselves, let alone recommending how the country as a whole should go about it.

/I guarantee there were those who championed this lady
//They probably still do
 
2012-03-12 07:33:01 PM
Wow, a lot of people either didn't rtfa or are idiots.

$5000 in medical bills was PART of her debt. So it's not derderderrrrr bankrupt over 5000 dollars, omgz!

That being said, fark her, she got what she deserved (well, actually not, since she is going bankrupt). Farkin' biatch.
 
2012-03-12 07:51:24 PM

That Masked Man: Lawyers who represent Brown dispute the significance of her bankruptcy. They say her unpaid medical bills were only a small part of her debts and did not cause her bankruptcy. They say that she and her husband owe $55,000 to others, including credit card companies. And they say her financial troubles were caused by the failure of her auto repair shop.


Which makes her exactly the type of person that causes us to benefit as a whole from universal healthcare. Cover her and her idiot husband decently and up to a point in order to prevent an endless string of emergency room visits and other discharged debt being dumped on everyone else.

Even ignoring insurance companies, unless we start doing credit checks at the emergency room and on the owners of the phones used to call 911, then we already have a system in which some people are paying for other people's healthcare. Beyond that stage we have a choice: set things up in a manner that makes sense and minimizes costs to everyone, or pretend this cost-sharing doesn't exist.
 
2012-03-12 08:08:00 PM

steamingpile: In emergency situations its great but in instances where you need prolonged health care you will have horror stories, our old ex-in laws came from germany to get cancer treatment because he was told they couldn't get him in until 8-10 months. He was told if he started aggressive treatment immediately he had an 80-90% chance, if not he had a 50/50 chance, he had money so he came to the states for 8 months to get treatment, that was 6 years ago and he's cancer free while coming over here every year for check ups.

Immediate or emergency has never been an issue for healthcare, but don't have a disease that builds over time because you will be at the back of the line.


Yes, death panels I'm sure. All systems, including ours, have coverage issues with cancer and serious illnesses. And, like ours if I remember correctly, Germans can purchase private insurance above and beyond the universal system, so its not exactly like we had a situation with some pitable wealthy Germans forced to receive healthcare like the common man.

You might not be aware, but we have healthcare lines here in a variety of ways. There are things that aren't covered by various plans. There are preferred physician restrictions and the like. If you don't think that results in delays in treatment and reductions in quality for shiattier health plans, then you live a fantasy world.
 
2012-03-12 09:34:22 PM

Fissile: I'm sure the tards in this story were all hot and heavy to attack Iraq, a country which was no threat to the US, and was never responsible for so much as a broken American window, yet these same "citizens" will defend to the death their right to be exploited and killed by Wall St.

America is now just too stupid to survive.


words of a farker posting to the wrong thread. maroon.
 
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