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(MSNBC)   The family that was kicked off the JetBlue flight for unruly kids has a hard time controlling them on The Today Show   (today.msnbc.msn.com ) divider line
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31948 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Mar 2012 at 11:01 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-12 07:42:55 PM  
I had a tantrum on a plane once, and then all of the sudden my butt hurt and I remember a steely 9 hours of silence.

So weird.
 
2012-03-12 07:56:15 PM  
The lady even admits that when she finally got her child under control and in her seat, she turned to the flight attendant and said "I have her strapped in, can we go now" and the flight attendent said "the decision has already been made". So clearly they had been warned before to get their child under control, and took their sweet time doing so. She tries to say earlier "she was already in her seat when they said we have to leave" then says "I put her in her seat and asked can we go now". She isn't even consistent with her story.
 
2012-03-12 08:14:19 PM  

WalMartian: I can remember the days when another adult would punish you if your parents weren't around. We didn't go into a neighbor's yard unless asked to, etc. I also know you'd be up to your elbows in a shiatstorm if you attempted to punish or verbally correct someone else's child these days.

Example: Last year, my adult daughter and I were in line outside Allen Fieldhouse in Lawrence waiting for the start of a KU Men's Basketball game. There's always a couple lines of people waiting at the doors in order to get a good seat in the general admission sections.

Standing in front of us was a mother and two boys - I'd guess they were maybe 5 and 7 yrs old. The boys were restless, running around, jumping, etc. Mom was glued to her cell phone. I had endured the disruption of the two boys running and jumping until they reached the point of chasing each other around their mother, going in between their mom and I. There are probably 30+ people standing in three lines abreast in a pretty tiny space just outside the doors. At about the 10th or 11th orbit around mom, I finally asked if they would please stop. You'd think I asked them to lick dog crap off my shoes. I was lectured by mom, glared at by the boys, and once that was done the mom made derogatory comments about me to the boys knowing full well I could hear her.

Now, imagine what would have happened if I'd actually done something like whack them on the butt as they ran by, or grabbed them to stop them? I'd be sitting in jail in Lawrence.

I understand being proud of your children - I'm a mom, too - but what I can't understand is how we've lost the good sense to realize our kids act up and bother others??


I've always found tripping kids like that to be good punishment. Next time they round your feet just stick your leg up. They fall over, you and everyone laughs and the kids go back to hanging around Mum's leg.
 
2012-03-12 08:27:06 PM  

JerkStore: Fizics: I'm not going to lie, I agree with this woman in principle. People are going to complain the first chance they get, as soon as the opportunity presents itself. My daughter is only six years-old and sometimes cannot control her actions like an adult, and sometimes she needs to express herself and yes, may in fact disturb those around her; but this is the cost of living in a progressive society. She is very musically gifted, so my husband and I have been encouraging to express herself to others through song and on the plane she quickly becomes the darling of the people around her.

I guess I'm just trying to say we should show a little tolerance and consideration for others.

Meaning consideration for you and your kid, right?

I suspect that you're mistaken about the "darling of the people around her" part and confusing it with polite tolerance on the part of strangers.

I'll bet you a year of Total Fark that your kid isn't enchanting, you were simply [inadvertently] counting on the kindness of others to absolve you of the responsibility of caring for your "gifted" child (aren't they all?), then justifying it by telling people they need to be more tolerant.

/3-year-old and 6-year-old, I know how the game is played. You're doing it wrong.


I'll bet you a year of TF that you completely missed the point of that post.

/Hint: He doesn't have a kid.
 
2012-03-12 08:31:56 PM  

raubtier: I had a tantrum on a plane once, and then all of the sudden my butt hurt and I remember a steely 9 hours of silence.

So weird.


THIS

My mother didn't threaten my brother and I with a slap. She promised. In a low voice, with clenched teeth and fire in her eyes. It was simply prudent to settle the hell down.
Also, she never spanked us once we hit a certain age. Then it was groundings, extra chores and losing privileges like getting to eat dinner. As we got older, we needed less discipline. A smack isn't abuse. It is a way to bring ya "back to Jebus".

/"See what happens when you show your ass in public."
 
2012-03-12 09:38:52 PM  

Diogenes: They should have hired a Jet Blue flight attendant to walk on set in the middle of the interview and say, "Alright, you guys need to leave."


Its those sudden explosive unexpected shouts of strangled laughter as you try to process what youve just read and still LOL that hurt the most, you Magnificent Bastard.
 
2012-03-12 09:41:31 PM  

brigid_fitch: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Maybe I'm no pediatrician, but I question Mommy's judgement skills with regards to her pwecious widdle snowfwake's level of dsruptiveness.

Seriously. Only 15 seconds into the interview, the kid's squirming & bugging Dad and Mom's completely ignoring her, focused on Lauer, leaving Dad to try to quiet her. Shut the fark up, Mom, and say, "Sorry--we'll have to do this another time" and take your kid offstage and tell her you're going home. Right now. Or, at the very least, have Dad take the kid away. Either way, don't ignore or encourage a kid who's obviously acting up.


Jesus, people. Those looked like two completely normal kids. Even fairly well-behaved. What do you expect from other parents? Do you want to see the father smack the kid for talking?

They're on the farkING TODAY SHOW! What do you want them to do? Walk off? Are you serious? They did fine.

Parenting is HARD. Flying with children is difficult. In fact, we've only done it once. But this summer, they're the ring-bearer and flower girl at my sister's wedding. There may be a tantrum. It sucks, but it's part of life. We'll do our best to control them. And for all the people who have suggested that it's the problem: no, we won't farking hit them. How will that help?
 
2012-03-12 09:48:17 PM  

WalMartian: I can remember the days when another adult would punish you if your parents weren't around. We didn't go into a neighbor's yard unless asked to, etc. I also know you'd be up to your elbows in a shiatstorm if you attempted to punish or verbally correct someone else's child these days.

Example: Last year, my adult daughter and I were in line outside Allen Fieldhouse in Lawrence waiting for the start of a KU Men's Basketball game. There's always a couple lines of people waiting at the doors in order to get a good seat in the general admission sections.

Standing in front of us was a mother and two boys - I'd guess they were maybe 5 and 7 yrs old. The boys were restless, running around, jumping, etc. Mom was glued to her cell phone. I had endured the disruption of the two boys running and jumping until they reached the point of chasing each other around their mother, going in between their mom and I. There are probably 30+ people standing in three lines abreast in a pretty tiny space just outside the doors. At about the 10th or 11th orbit around mom, I finally asked if they would please stop. You'd think I asked them to lick dog crap off my shoes. I was lectured by mom, glared at by the boys, and once that was done the mom made derogatory comments about me to the boys knowing full well I could hear her.

Now, imagine what would have happened if I'd actually done something like whack them on the butt as they ran by, or grabbed them to stop them? I'd be sitting in jail in Lawrence.

I understand being proud of your children - I'm a mom, too - but what I can't understand is how we've lost the good sense to realize our kids act up and bother others??


I had to yell at some other dad's five year old the other day at the playground when his kid pushed my one year old daughter down on purpose. Some people do NOTHING. One of my best friends did nothing when his three year old daughter tried to punch my five month old son several years ago. I don't get it. I was livid. I've never hit my kids, but they know when they're in trouble.
 
2012-03-12 09:52:26 PM  
Persnickety:
Yes you are right, by no means were they perfect and I had to give them a swat on the rear at times. What I was saying was they learned how to act in public at a young age.
 
2012-03-12 09:55:31 PM  

ktybear: WalMartian: I can remember the days when another adult would punish you if your parents weren't around. We didn't go into a neighbor's yard unless asked to, etc. I also know you'd be up to your elbows in a shiatstorm if you attempted to punish or verbally correct someone else's child these days.

Example: Last year, my adult daughter and I were in line outside Allen Fieldhouse in Lawrence waiting for the start of a KU Men's Basketball game. There's always a couple lines of people waiting at the doors in order to get a good seat in the general admission sections.

Standing in front of us was a mother and two boys - I'd guess they were maybe 5 and 7 yrs old. The boys were restless, running around, jumping, etc. Mom was glued to her cell phone. I had endured the disruption of the two boys running and jumping until they reached the point of chasing each other around their mother, going in between their mom and I. There are probably 30+ people standing in three lines abreast in a pretty tiny space just outside the doors. At about the 10th or 11th orbit around mom, I finally asked if they would please stop. You'd think I asked them to lick dog crap off my shoes. I was lectured by mom, glared at by the boys, and once that was done the mom made derogatory comments about me to the boys knowing full well I could hear her.

Now, imagine what would have happened if I'd actually done something like whack them on the butt as they ran by, or grabbed them to stop them? I'd be sitting in jail in Lawrence.

I understand being proud of your children - I'm a mom, too - but what I can't understand is how we've lost the good sense to realize our kids act up and bother others??

I've always found tripping kids like that to be good punishment. Next time they round your feet just stick your leg up. They fall over, you and everyone laughs and the kids go back to hanging around Mum's leg.


Yup. And if Mom of the Year talks smack about you tripping her kid, you claim a leg cramp or stretch and point out that if the crotchfruit wasnt running wild like a little heathen it would still be upright. Point this out in a very loud voice and youre liable to get a round of applause. Worst case, MOTY will STFU.
 
2012-03-12 09:56:50 PM  
White people with crotchlings, scrotch droppings, sex trophy problems.

The BELT!

STFU and SIT DOWN!

Fark! Stop making stupid, self centered shiatheads!
 
2012-03-12 10:11:14 PM  

Hipchewy1: You are a moron if you think being a good parent means the kids need to be spanked.


You're a moron if you think that being a good parent means not punishing your children in a way they understand for unacceptable behavior. The result is what you see on the video clip - children who are completely out of control and parents who are their hostages. You look at that family and there is no question who is in charge -- the kids. The parents are completely ineffectual and are too pussified to assert their authority.

You can't reason with a toddler. Their little brains aren't that intellectually developed yet. Taking away privileges doesn't work because toddlers live entirely in the moment. A sharp smack on the behind and a stern word gets their attention (and compliance) a LOT more effectively than hours of pleading or bribery. Once they get to be about 8 then you can start trying to reason with them and using loss of privileges as a punishment, but until then.
 
2012-03-12 10:16:00 PM  

nopokerface: The wife is clearly in charge of the family dynamic. What did you expect?


No, the toddlers are in charge.

I'll concur that the wife has her husband's balls in her purse, but she's not in charge of shiat except maybe pegging dispensation.
 
2012-03-12 10:25:44 PM  

Fizics: I guess I'm just trying to say we should show a little tolerance and consideration for others.


That goes both ways, sparky.

Show some consideration for the people around you and teach your little snowflake to STFU instead of being an annoying little AW.

There's a time and a place for everything. You want to teach your kid to sing? That's great - at the appropriate time and in the appropriate place. Public transportation is not the appropriate time and place.
 
2012-03-12 11:07:45 PM  
Neither of my kids pull this crap in public (though they do from time to time at home). Why? Because the one or two times they DID try it, they received an eye-opening lesson in how quickly I can completely drop whatever we were doing and warp home where they can spend as much time as they wish sitting in the corner screaming. Temper tantrum in public means instant abort. It really sucked the time I had to walk out of a store without $100 of groceries, but you only have to pay this price once or twice. Then they start GETTING it.

I'm stunned that some people think the kids need a beating. This is a complete failure of parenting, why would you take it out on the toddler?
 
2012-03-12 11:28:29 PM  
I'm stunned that some people think the kids need a beating. This is a complete failure of parenting, why would you take it out on the toddler?

Because they deserve it?

Seriously, the whole crux of this discussion is this: just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. Sure, you CAN bring your 11-month-old to Le Cirque or DaSilvano, but why would you? These are examples of restaurants that are inappropriate for children. And sure, you CAN bring your 11-month-old or your toddler on a flight to T&C or Aruba, but why would you? These are places FOR ADULTS WHO LEAD BUSY HARRIED LIVES AND WANT TO RELAX. They ( and I mean my wife and I) do not want to listen to your little Timmy Poopy Pants have a meltdown in the palapa next to us. Why is this so farking hard for you people to understand?

If you choose to have children, guess what- you've relegated yourself to places like applebee's, McDonald's, Disney cruises and the like. Bringing them to adult-oriented places IS SIMPLY NOT APPROPRIATE.

Capice?
 
2012-03-12 11:35:01 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: gulogulo: Pray 4 Mojo: My family is having a large reunion in Hawaii in June. My siblings and their legals thought it would be convenient and neat to meet up together and fly over on the same flight... with their awesome collection of crotchfruit (aged 1.5 - 20). Unfortunately, I ended up scheduling a very important email that day and had to take another flight. If you are flying to Honolulu from LAX on June 16th... sucks to be you.

I'm that aunt, so it's all good.

We should get together and not make babies.

Crosswords or something... scrabble maybe.


Sounds a-ok to me, as long as you're ok with a 30-something that does what she wants.
 
2012-03-12 11:39:54 PM  

UncleFriendly: Parenting is HARD. Flying with children is difficult. In fact, we've only done it once. But this summer, they're the ring-bearer and flower girl at my sister's wedding. There may be a tantrum. It sucks, but it's part of life.


I get that kids can't always be controlled, but it's a part of your life. Why does it have to be a part of mine, too? If I want to sleep, if I -need- to sleep on a flight, why should your kids take priority over that? I didn't make the decision to have them.
 
2012-03-12 11:43:54 PM  
"There were no more flights that night, so we had nowhere to stay..."

That Makes No Sense.
 
2012-03-12 11:56:06 PM  

darch: I'm stunned that some people think the kids need a beating. This is a complete failure of parenting, why would you take it out on the toddler?

Because they deserve it?

Seriously, the whole crux of this discussion is this: just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. Sure, you CAN bring your 11-month-old to Le Cirque or DaSilvano, but why would you? These are examples of restaurants that are inappropriate for children. And sure, you CAN bring your 11-month-old or your toddler on a flight to T&C or Aruba, but why would you? These are places FOR ADULTS WHO LEAD BUSY HARRIED LIVES AND WANT TO RELAX. They ( and I mean my wife and I) do not want to listen to your little Timmy Poopy Pants have a meltdown in the palapa next to us. Why is this so farking hard for you people to understand?

If you choose to have children, guess what- you've relegated yourself to places like applebee's, McDonald's, Disney cruises and the like. Bringing them to adult-oriented places IS SIMPLY NOT APPROPRIATE.

Capice?


No, not capice. My social obligation to you is designed by me, not you, and here it is. I will do the best I can to raise a child who behaves respectfully and appropriately in the adult world. I will do this by exposing him to the adult world so he can learn the rules. Part of this education is enforcement of immediate consequences for bad behavior. An example of such a consequence would be instant removal from a restaurant when misbehavior begins. I'm talking within ten seconds. Unfortunately you'll never get to see proof that this works, because I've only ever had to do it twice and I don't anticipate needing to do it again. If I do, oh well. I guess you'll suffer a whole ten seconds of mild discomfort as I strike a balance between your desire for happiness and my desire to teach my child how to be a member of society, precisely SO he does not engage in the behaviors you dislike so much.

You can not explain social customs to a child from a theoretical basis, it's like talking gibberish. You also cannot beat knowledge into them as if it's absorbed through the skin somehow. Like it or not, social behavior must be learned and it doesn't help you, me, or anybody else if I stick my head in the sand and pretend that if I forget about it it will just sort of happen on its own.

I will not short-cut this process by smacking the shiat out of my child simply because your life would be slightly more convenient if I did. Believe me, you would not be happy with the adult end-result of such a strategy.
 
2012-03-13 12:02:06 AM  
The parents should have brought toys to keep the kids occupied. You can't expect two toddlers to just sit still like adults for an interview. If they had brought a baggie of Cheerios or a light up toy they could have avoided this.
 
2012-03-13 12:02:14 AM  

Magook: I was spanked and screamed at as a kid. Congratulations, Dad, you turned me into a doormat who was way too eager to please, afraid to disagree with anyone, and deathly afraid of confrontation. It took a very long time for me to even be able to form my own opinions, let alone *gasp* break a rule.


I was spanked and screamed at as a kid. Congratulations, Dad, you turned me into someone who never took shiat from anyone ever again after she left your house.

/I think it has to do with the substrate. YMMV.
 
2012-03-13 12:03:18 AM  

awgsilyari: No, not capice. My social obligation to you is designed by me, not you, and here it is. I will do the best I can to raise a child who behaves respectfully and appropriately in the adult world. I will do this by exposing him to the adult world so he can learn the rules. Part of this education is enforcement of immediate consequences for bad behavior. An example of such a consequence would be instant removal from a restaurant when misbehavior begins. I'm talking within ten seconds. Unfortunately you'll never get to see proof that this works, because I've only ever had to do it twice and I don't anticipate needing to do it again. If I do, oh well. I guess you'll suffer a whole ten seconds of mild discomfort as I strike a balance between your desire for happiness and my desire to teach my child how to be a member of society, precisely SO he does not engage in the behaviors you dislike so much.


Or you know, teach them good behavior in kid friendly environments before you bring them to places where adults are there to relax. That's just respectful to the other people around you. We are not your training ground. There are appropriate places to do that that don't include subjecting everyone else to your kids' training.
 
2012-03-13 12:08:18 AM  
And I swear to god, the most effective discipline I ever remember as a kid was having a stranger yell at me for my bad behavior. Nothing grilled it into me more that I was being a brat and I better shape up. Terrifying.
 
2012-03-13 12:10:55 AM  

gulogulo: UncleFriendly: Parenting is HARD. Flying with children is difficult. In fact, we've only done it once. But this summer, they're the ring-bearer and flower girl at my sister's wedding. There may be a tantrum. It sucks, but it's part of life.

I get that kids can't always be controlled, but it's a part of your life. Why does it have to be a part of mine, too? If I want to sleep, if I -need- to sleep on a flight, why should your kids take priority over that? I didn't make the decision to have them.


No, you didn't. But you do live in a society. Children are part of that. Go live in the woods or something if you never want to come in contact with that portion of humanity.

It's not like we're talking about kids in bars or R movies or anything. It's transportation. Your need for a nap doesn't come before my need to get from point A to point B. I'll try to keep them quiet. I'll bounce them and shush them, try to keep them calm. My son didn't make a peep the one time we flew with him. But it could happen, and turning the plane around is ludicrous.
 
2012-03-13 12:19:28 AM  

gulogulo: awgsilyari: No, not capice. My social obligation to you is designed by me, not you, and here it is. I will do the best I can to raise a child who behaves respectfully and appropriately in the adult world. I will do this by exposing him to the adult world so he can learn the rules. Part of this education is enforcement of immediate consequences for bad behavior. An example of such a consequence would be instant removal from a restaurant when misbehavior begins. I'm talking within ten seconds. Unfortunately you'll never get to see proof that this works, because I've only ever had to do it twice and I don't anticipate needing to do it again. If I do, oh well. I guess you'll suffer a whole ten seconds of mild discomfort as I strike a balance between your desire for happiness and my desire to teach my child how to be a member of society, precisely SO he does not engage in the behaviors you dislike so much.

Or you know, teach them good behavior in kid friendly environments before you bring them to places where adults are there to relax. That's just respectful to the other people around you. We are not your training ground. There are appropriate places to do that that don't include subjecting everyone else to your kids' training.


The world is the only training ground there is. There is no "child world." Too bad for you, I guess.

Do I take my children to places that are clearly designed to allow adults to relax? That would require me to be a douche. Since I'm not a douche, I'm not sure what you're worried about. An airplane is not one of those places.
 
2012-03-13 12:26:10 AM  

Fizics: My daughter is only six years-old and sometimes cannot control her actions like an adult, and sometimes she needs to express herself and yes, may in fact disturb those around her; but this is the cost of living in a progressive society.


Oh no, don't make this a political thing. I'm as Liberal as they come and even I believe children should be seen, not heard.
 
2012-03-13 12:27:16 AM  

UncleFriendly: It's not like we're talking about kids in bars or R movies or anything. It's transportation. Your need for a nap doesn't come before my need to get from point A to point B. I'll try to keep them quiet. I'll bounce them and shush them, try to keep them calm. My son didn't make a peep the one time we flew with him. But it could happen, and turning the plane around is ludicrous.


Why is it ludicrous? Because it inconveniences you? If 85-90% of the people wanted your kid to shut up then I'd think it's pretty sane decision for a business to please the majority of their customer base rather make accomadations for you, alone.
 
2012-03-13 12:28:46 AM  

awgsilyari: Do I take my children to places that are clearly designed to allow adults to relax? That would require me to be a douche. Since I'm not a douche, I'm not sure what you're worried about. An airplane is not one of those places.


So, you think a 5+ hour plane ride is a good place for a child? Or a vacation spot meant primarily for adults, not kids? Fair enough, if you ascribe to this 'takes a village' idea, then I get to take part in their discipline, too. Fair is fair.
 
2012-03-13 12:30:51 AM  
Oh, and I think doing away with this 'lap child' business would end a lot of the problems. If people have to pay an adult price for their kid, they'll probably think twice about spending that money and bringing them on a flight.
 
2012-03-13 12:35:53 AM  
You know what, children are afraid of strangers, especially mean looking ones. If parent's wouldn't freak out when I tell their children to be quite and instead let me do their dirty work for them we would all be much happier. Parents, stop with the "don't you tell me how to raise my child" bullcrap and use us to your own advantage.

Conversely, I was in a pretty nice restaurant a few months ago with my wife and sure enough we get seated right next to a table with two kids (maybe 8 and 10). We are both thinking that we are going to have to put up with kid crap all night. Instead they were both as well behaved as I've ever seen. Before they left I made sure to compliment them and their parents. You see, strangers will also give you kudos as well.
 
2012-03-13 12:37:26 AM  

gulogulo: UncleFriendly: It's not like we're talking about kids in bars or R movies or anything. It's transportation. Your need for a nap doesn't come before my need to get from point A to point B. I'll try to keep them quiet. I'll bounce them and shush them, try to keep them calm. My son didn't make a peep the one time we flew with him. But it could happen, and turning the plane around is ludicrous.

Why is it ludicrous? Because it inconveniences you? If 85-90% of the people wanted your kid to shut up then I'd think it's pretty sane decision for a business to please the majority of their customer base rather make accomadations for you, alone.


It's not 85-90% that would want a crying kid to shut up. It's 100%. I want my kids to shut up even more than you.

It's life. I'm not sequestering myself in my house for eight years because my kids may disturb you.

You're basically saying people should never take kids on planes. Ridiculous. I remember being on a plane years ago when I was still single, no kids. A toddler across the aisle was so worked up and terrified that he barfed all over himself. Was I annoyed and disgusted? Of course. But what can I do? I live in a society.
 
2012-03-13 12:38:30 AM  

gulogulo: awgsilyari: Do I take my children to places that are clearly designed to allow adults to relax? That would require me to be a douche. Since I'm not a douche, I'm not sure what you're worried about. An airplane is not one of those places.

So, you think a 5+ hour plane ride is a good place for a child? Or a vacation spot meant primarily for adults, not kids? Fair enough, if you ascribe to this 'takes a village' idea, then I get to take part in their discipline, too. Fair is fair.


You can seriously suggest that people who happen to be parents shouldn't travel all you want, and yet you're still insane.

People like you talk about this stuff as if I care. I do what I can to keep my kids from cramping your style, I really seriously do. But when it comes to my fundamental right to go out in the world with my children at my side, sorry. No compromise. I try to make reasonable calls, but those calls are up to me.
 
2012-03-13 12:39:22 AM  

DreamWeaver: yves0010: Hipchewy1: jehovahs witness protection: This is what happens when parents refuse to spank their snowflakes.

You are a moron if you think being a good parent means the kids need to be spanked.

Spanking is the lazy mans way of teaching children.

Spanking is a perfectly good punishment when done right. It isnt lazy and in todays day. It is still one of the best ways to punish a child. Grounding with all the toys kids have now a days doesnt work. Did not work for me when I was grounded back in the 90s. Now getting my ass spanked did cause it said "Dont do this or you will be punished."

My larents ground3d me in my bedroom. With an snes and n64. They were some of my favorite days.

They eventually had to start locking me in the bathroom. (I hid a gameboy in there for those occasions).


Did the same thing. I had the 64 and a GameBoy Color.
 
2012-03-13 12:41:42 AM  

UncleFriendly: gulogulo: UncleFriendly: It's not like we're talking about kids in bars or R movies or anything. It's transportation. Your need for a nap doesn't come before my need to get from point A to point B. I'll try to keep them quiet. I'll bounce them and shush them, try to keep them calm. My son didn't make a peep the one time we flew with him. But it could happen, and turning the plane around is ludicrous.

Why is it ludicrous? Because it inconveniences you? If 85-90% of the people wanted your kid to shut up then I'd think it's pretty sane decision for a business to please the majority of their customer base rather make accomadations for you, alone.

It's not 85-90% that would want a crying kid to shut up. It's 100%. I want my kids to shut up even more than you.

It's life. I'm not sequestering myself in my house for eight years because my kids may disturb you.

You're basically saying people should never take kids on planes. Ridiculous. I remember being on a plane years ago when I was still single, no kids. A toddler across the aisle was so worked up and terrified that he barfed all over himself. Was I annoyed and disgusted? Of course. But what can I do? I live in a society.


Nope. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying you do it in stages..can your kid sit quietly for a couple of hours and keep himself entertained? Ok. Time to try a plane ride. And, of course, why should I suffer for your choices and have no say in it? You may decided to have kids, so why should you feel like those 8 years aren't justified? If not, I should be able to take part in the discipline if you insist on putting it in my sphere, no? You want to live in society without any consequence for troubling the people around you. To you it's no big deal I lose sleep,b ut to me, when I'm staring down an hour an half drive when I land, it's a major problem and potentially making it unsafe for others on the road because you feel entitled. Now I try to be patient and plan ahead, taking responsibility for what I know I need. I bring noise-cancelling head phones, but when a kid is unruley for hours, even those don't work.
 
2012-03-13 12:43:00 AM  

awgsilyari: People like you talk about this stuff as if I care. I do what I can to keep my kids from cramping your style, I really seriously do. But when it comes to my fundamental right to go out in the world with my children at my side, sorry. No compromise. I try to make reasonable calls, but those calls are up to me.


Ok, so I can yell at your child without you getting all offended then if they're bothering me.
 
2012-03-13 12:47:25 AM  

gulogulo: awgsilyari: People like you talk about this stuff as if I care. I do what I can to keep my kids from cramping your style, I really seriously do. But when it comes to my fundamental right to go out in the world with my children at my side, sorry. No compromise. I try to make reasonable calls, but those calls are up to me.

Ok, so I can yell at your child without you getting all offended then if they're bothering me.


If you yelled at my kid, you'd be yelling at a kid for no reason since he never does anything to annoy anybody. Therefore, you'd look like a psychotic if you actually did it. I'm not particularly worried about this absurdly hypothetical situation.
 
2012-03-13 12:48:15 AM  

gulogulo: UncleFriendly: gulogulo: UncleFriendly: It's not like we're talking about kids in bars or R movies or anything. It's transportation. Your need for a nap doesn't come before my need to get from point A to point B. I'll try to keep them quiet. I'll bounce them and shush them, try to keep them calm. My son didn't make a peep the one time we flew with him. But it could happen, and turning the plane around is ludicrous.

Why is it ludicrous? Because it inconveniences you? If 85-90% of the people wanted your kid to shut up then I'd think it's pretty sane decision for a business to please the majority of their customer base rather make accomadations for you, alone.

It's not 85-90% that would want a crying kid to shut up. It's 100%. I want my kids to shut up even more than you.

It's life. I'm not sequestering myself in my house for eight years because my kids may disturb you.

You're basically saying people should never take kids on planes. Ridiculous. I remember being on a plane years ago when I was still single, no kids. A toddler across the aisle was so worked up and terrified that he barfed all over himself. Was I annoyed and disgusted? Of course. But what can I do? I live in a society.

Nope. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying you do it in stages..can your kid sit quietly for a couple of hours and keep himself entertained? Ok. Time to try a plane ride. And, of course, why should I suffer for your choices and have no say in it? You may decided to have kids, so why should you feel like those 8 years aren't justified? If not, I should be able to take part in the discipline if you insist on putting it in my sphere, no? You want to live in society without any consequence for troubling the people around you. To you it's no big deal I lose sleep,b ut to me, when I'm staring down an hour an half drive when I land, it's a major problem and potentially making it unsafe for others on the road because you feel entitled. Now I try to be patient and plan ahead, taking responsibility for what I know I need. I bring noise-cancelling head phones, but when a kid is unruley for hours, even those don't work.


I'm not taking my kids on a red eye. I am reasonable. Sleep at night.
 
2012-03-13 12:51:46 AM  

awgsilyari: gulogulo: awgsilyari: People like you talk about this stuff as if I care. I do what I can to keep my kids from cramping your style, I really seriously do. But when it comes to my fundamental right to go out in the world with my children at my side, sorry. No compromise. I try to make reasonable calls, but those calls are up to me.

Ok, so I can yell at your child without you getting all offended then if they're bothering me.

If you yelled at my kid, you'd be yelling at a kid for no reason since he never does anything to annoy anybody. Therefore, you'd look like a psychotic if you actually did it. I'm not particularly worried about this absurdly hypothetical situation.


Hence I said, "if they are bothering me," hence misbehaving..you act like I'd just yell at any kid who was just existing. And I'm nearly positive you're a liar now..because unless he's paralyzed and mute, he's done something to bother other people. I have plenty of experience with kids.
 
2012-03-13 12:55:26 AM  
[

UncleFriendly: I'm not taking my kids on a red eye. I am reasonable. Sleep at night.


Not everyone's schedule works like this, particularly people who are traveling for business to make an early morning meeting. There is some expectation that they'll be able to have a quiet plane ride. No one that I know gets on a plane expecting rowdiness. That said, it's more of the "oh well, I'll go where i want and you just have to deal with my child as he comes" attitude that gets to me. I am patient. I do not yell at parents, and like I said, I have experience with kids so I get how difficult it can be. There's a limit to that patience, and yes, there are places parents just don't need to take their kids before they're ready to sit quietly.
 
2012-03-13 12:55:28 AM  

gulogulo: awgsilyari: People like you talk about this stuff as if I care. I do what I can to keep my kids from cramping your style, I really seriously do. But when it comes to my fundamental right to go out in the world with my children at my side, sorry. No compromise. I try to make reasonable calls, but those calls are up to me.

Ok, so I can yell at your child without you getting all offended then if they're bothering me.


It works better if you show them your penis. Shuts 'em right up. I have eyes and teeth tattooed on mine to make it really scary.
 
2012-03-13 01:03:11 AM  

gulogulo: awgsilyari: People like you talk about this stuff as if I care. I do what I can to keep my kids from cramping your style, I really seriously do. But when it comes to my fundamental right to go out in the world with my children at my side, sorry. No compromise. I try to make reasonable calls, but those calls are up to me.

Ok, so I can yell at your child without you getting all offended then if they're bothering me.


Do you understand that "bothering me" is really subjective?
 
2012-03-13 01:03:46 AM  

gulogulo: [UncleFriendly: I'm not taking my kids on a red eye. I am reasonable. Sleep at night.

Not everyone's schedule works like this, particularly people who are traveling for business to make an early morning meeting. There is some expectation that they'll be able to have a quiet plane ride. No one that I know gets on a plane expecting rowdiness. That said, it's more of the "oh well, I'll go where i want and you just have to deal with my child as he comes" attitude that gets to me. I am patient. I do not yell at parents, and like I said, I have experience with kids so I get how difficult it can be. There's a limit to that patience, and yes, there are places parents just don't need to take their kids before they're ready to sit quietly.


My kids are well behaved. They're generally very calm. They don't scream in public. But it's always a possibility, especially for the little one if she gets scared. We normally do very well at calming her.

You think it would be reasonable to say to my sister "sorry we can't make your wedding. There may be people trying to sleep on the plane"?
 
2012-03-13 01:03:56 AM  

gulogulo: awgsilyari: gulogulo: awgsilyari: People like you talk about this stuff as if I care. I do what I can to keep my kids from cramping your style, I really seriously do. But when it comes to my fundamental right to go out in the world with my children at my side, sorry. No compromise. I try to make reasonable calls, but those calls are up to me.

Ok, so I can yell at your child without you getting all offended then if they're bothering me.

If you yelled at my kid, you'd be yelling at a kid for no reason since he never does anything to annoy anybody. Therefore, you'd look like a psychotic if you actually did it. I'm not particularly worried about this absurdly hypothetical situation.

Hence I said, "if they are bothering me," hence misbehaving..you act like I'd just yell at any kid who was just existing. And I'm nearly positive you're a liar now..because unless he's paralyzed and mute, he's done something to bother other people. I have plenty of experience with kids.


I suppose he's bothered a few people. I think he accidentally bumped into somebody once. That person didn't turn around and scream at him though.

Are you imagining running around, yelling, throwing things, smearing substances on things, that kind of thing? Nope. I do get that stuff at home for certain, but in public he knows better. I don't know how exactly, but he "catches my drift." Maybe it's because children aren't inherently evil? Who knows.

And unless your experience with kids includes being the parent of one, you have very, very little experience. You have no idea the horrors we shield you from, hidden away at home where nobody knows.
 
2012-03-13 01:10:09 AM  

awgsilyari: gulogulo: awgsilyari: gulogulo: awgsilyari: People like you talk about this stuff as if I care. I do what I can to keep my kids from cramping your style, I really seriously do. But when it comes to my fundamental right to go out in the world with my children at my side, sorry. No compromise. I try to make reasonable calls, but those calls are up to me.

Ok, so I can yell at your child without you getting all offended then if they're bothering me.

If you yelled at my kid, you'd be yelling at a kid for no reason since he never does anything to annoy anybody. Therefore, you'd look like a psychotic if you actually did it. I'm not particularly worried about this absurdly hypothetical situation.

Hence I said, "if they are bothering me," hence misbehaving..you act like I'd just yell at any kid who was just existing. And I'm nearly positive you're a liar now..because unless he's paralyzed and mute, he's done something to bother other people. I have plenty of experience with kids.

I suppose he's bothered a few people. I think he accidentally bumped into somebody once. That person didn't turn around and scream at him though.

Are you imagining running around, yelling, throwing things, smearing substances on things, that kind of thing? Nope. I do get that stuff at home for certain, but in public he knows better. I don't know how exactly, but he "catches my drift." Maybe it's because children aren't inherently evil? Who knows.

And unless your experience with kids includes being the parent of one, you have very, very little experience. You have no idea the horrors we shield you from, hidden away at home where nobody knows.


We had an incident in our house we refer to as the Trail of Smears...
 
2012-03-13 01:58:13 AM  
I'm laughing at the comments from the "beat the children" group, 90% of whom obviously do not have children of their own... the other 10% will be left in whatever old-folks home medicare is willing to spring for.

If you teach your children "hey, I'll control you with my superior physical strength", don't be surprised when they turn the table and mind-fark you when your old and feeble and their mature and capable.

Not that that should matter... being a parent isn't about getting anything on the comeback.

Oh... and these parents didn't do anything wrong by not "spanking their child into submission" (you do realize that's impossible given the time frame of 6 minutes mentioned in the article... a 2-year old child will cry for longer than that if you spank them)..

THey did something wrong by bringing children of this age to Turks and Somewherefaristan..... morons... you just don't travel that long with kids of that age... and if you do and your two-year old throws a tantrum on the plane and the airline kicks you off the plane, it's not the two-year old's fault... it's not the airline's fault... it's YOUR fault for being a stupid parent...

Suck it up and try on the next flight in the morning, but fer chrissakes, don't go on national TV and whine about it... ya just look like a dumbarse.
 
2012-03-13 06:42:15 AM  
Angry Birds. End of Story.
 
2012-03-13 08:08:35 AM  
Evidentally her definition of "under control" is different than mine. Neither of them seemed to think twice about the fact that the kids were disrupting the interview. I doubt they ever think twice about how annoying it is to everyone around them that their kids contantly squirm & make noise.

I hope I never end up on the same flight with them.
 
2012-03-13 08:18:52 AM  

Frederick: gulogulo: awgsilyari: People like you talk about this stuff as if I care. I do what I can to keep my kids from cramping your style, I really seriously do. But when it comes to my fundamental right to go out in the world with my children at my side, sorry. No compromise. I try to make reasonable calls, but those calls are up to me.

Ok, so I can yell at your child without you getting all offended then if they're bothering me.

Do you understand that "bothering me" is really subjective?


I was kind of using the actual story of the article as a baseline for that, in addition to the descriptions of what bothering me was before.
 
2012-03-13 08:26:26 AM  

UncleFriendly: My kids are well behaved. They're generally very calm. They don't scream in public. But it's always a possibility, especially for the little one if she gets scared. We normally do very well at calming her.

You think it would be reasonable to say to my sister "sorry we can't make your wedding. There may be people trying to sleep on the plane"?


First of all, if your kids are that well behaved then it's pretty obvious you're not the kind of parent that this article is about and my comments are not really relevant to your situation. I'll repeat, I have no problem with kids, but there are times when parents feel this certain sense of entitlement that the rest of the world is just obligated to put up with their kids tantrums too. If you want to bring them with you, fine, but a business gets to decide too whether or not your kids are disruptive to their other customers and business and are allowed to ask you to leave. Again, doesn't sound like that's a problem for you, but I don't know why you find that so outrageous.

And it's not like it's your only choice to fly or not with your kids. I didn't take my first plane ride until I was 10 yo, and I wasn't exactly homebound, nor were my parents. Again, since your kids are so well behaved it's likely fine for you to fly.
 
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