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(Des Moines Register)   In Iowa, a barber has to take 2100 hours of school to legally cut somebody's hair. But a professional piercer can pierce anyone anywhere, and there's no regulation whatsoever   (desmoinesregister.com) divider line 170
    More: Asinine, Iowa, West Des Moines, continuing educations, 39th state, cultural practice, age of majority, National Conference of State Legislatures, Sioux City  
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5395 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Mar 2012 at 7:50 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-03-11 08:32:40 PM

BSABSVR: badhatharry: BSABSVR: badhatharry: You're right subby. We don't need to regulate barbers.

Just out curiosity, is there anything you don't do stupidly?

I make sure my tattoo artist knows what he is doing. I don't need a government agency to do it for me.

Not my point. Again you have proven yourself stupid. Seriously. Is there anything, I mean anything at all that you know or do well?


You don't have a point. You are stupid.
 
2012-03-11 08:34:19 PM
2100 hours is goddamn absurd. It shouldn't take that long to cover basic first aid for cuts and sanitation as to not spread filth and lice.
 
2012-03-11 08:34:19 PM

ghare: Evilsmurf: badhatharry: You're right subby. We don't need to regulate barbers.

The Democrat solution: Maybe we should regulate piercing studios.
The Republican/Libertarian solution: We don't need all these regulations on barbers.

As the libbiest lib that ever libbed - 2100 hours is WAY too much training to cut hair.


Agreed, but there should be some training required for cutting hair.
 
2012-03-11 08:40:24 PM
there money to be made in finding reasons to charge people for being employed

next up in the near future - background checks (and fees) from newspaper delievery boys
 
2012-03-11 08:40:50 PM
for whatever reasons some states erased the wide line between men's barber shop & a pretty much full service beauty salon. the old school ear snippers are the last of a breed for many.

2.bp.blogspot.com



hotlink
 
2012-03-11 08:40:53 PM

badhatharry: BSABSVR: badhatharry: BSABSVR: badhatharry: You're right subby. We don't need to regulate barbers.

Just out curiosity, is there anything you don't do stupidly?

I make sure my tattoo artist knows what he is doing. I don't need a government agency to do it for me.

Not my point. Again you have proven yourself stupid. Seriously. Is there anything, I mean anything at all that you know or do well?

You don't have a point. You are stupid.


Oh get a room, you two.
 
2012-03-11 08:42:01 PM

Mentalpatient87: moonage daydream: We sell piercing jewelry at my job, as well as the needles and equipment necessary to perform them. It's pretty stupid how often I see people coming in with actual pearl earrings shoved through their lips, or infected cartilage piercings done with a gun at Claire's, or the like. A lot of times they ask us why it's so infected, and they grow angry when you explain to them why getting some dude to just poke a needle in your lip and follow it with a stud earring is the most retarded idea ever.

I also like when they're looking for a very specific piece of jewelry, and they want ME to put it in for them. I tell them they should go back to their original piercer because they will do it for free and probably have the specific length and gauge you're looking for (oh yeah, most of them don't know shiat about gauges. "IT'S A SMALL ONE." Compared to what?) and they say "Oh I didn't go to a piercing place, my boyfriend's cousin's girlfriend did it for me at a party the other week".

Bleh, biatchfest is over now.

/just got off work

Where do you work, Spencer's?


A privately-owned sex shop/head shop. Kind of like Spencer's, I guess, but we don't allow kids.
 
2012-03-11 08:43:08 PM

taurusowner: moonage daydream: We sell piercing jewelry at my job, as well as the needles and equipment necessary to perform them. It's pretty stupid how often I see people coming in with actual pearl earrings shoved through their lips, or infected cartilage piercings done with a gun at Claire's, or the like. A lot of times they ask us why it's so infected, and they grow angry when you explain to them why getting some dude to just poke a needle in your lip and follow it with a stud earring is the most retarded idea ever.

I also like when they're looking for a very specific piece of jewelry, and they want ME to put it in for them. I tell them they should go back to their original piercer because they will do it for free and probably have the specific length and gauge you're looking for (oh yeah, most of them don't know shiat about gauges. "IT'S A SMALL ONE." Compared to what?) and they say "Oh I didn't go to a piercing place, my boyfriend's cousin's girlfriend did it for me at a party the other week".

Bleh, biatchfest is over now.

/just got off work

Well, those people are adults. Being an adult means making decisions on your own, and dealing with the consequences on your own. If they got their boyfriend's cousin's girlfriend to shove a screw driver through their hand just for laughs, as long as it was truly their decision, let them do it. Government is meant to protect you from malicious and unwanted harm from others. Not from yourself, and not from your own stupidity.


If you noticed, I didn't say one thing or another about what the government should or shouldn't do. All I said was that people are plenty farking stupid and do stupid things to their bodies.
 
2012-03-11 08:43:39 PM

Evilsmurf: ghare: Evilsmurf: badhatharry: You're right subby. We don't need to regulate barbers.

The Democrat solution: Maybe we should regulate piercing studios.
The Republican/Libertarian solution: We don't need all these regulations on barbers.

As the libbiest lib that ever libbed - 2100 hours is WAY too much training to cut hair.

Agreed, but there should be some training required for cutting hair.


Why should there be? I would like to know why you think consenting adults need the permission of a bureaucracy in order to cut hair. I honestly would like to know why you like the idea of giving politicians that kind of power over your own choices, and more to the point, why you want to see others constrained by politicians.

I mean this in the most serious and least hyperbolic "MURICA" way possible. What about freedom to act how you see fit, so long as unwilling harm does not come to others, scares you so much? DO you really feel safer and more comfortable with life when you have the hand of another guiding your choices? Up to the point where you would seek to put everyone under that hand, just to placate yourself?
 
2012-03-11 08:47:35 PM

bindlestiff2600: there money to be made in finding reasons to charge people for being employed

next up in the near future - background checks (and fees) from newspaper delievery boys


What's a "newspaper delievery boy"?
 
2012-03-11 08:48:24 PM

Manfred J. Hattan: Or at least reduce the regulation to a test on how not to overapply perm solution, sanitary practices (including treatment of minor cuts), waste disposal, &ct. Most of these regulations started because of some real health risk before blowing up into massive training and regulationy schemes whose primary effect is to restrict competition.


Exactly. There is a reason most people already in the industry support these regs, because they get grandfathered in. The purpose is not to protect the public but to protect those already in the industry from competition. This happens all over the place. I had to take a 2 hour training course for the state of Minnesota to be able to sling CAT-5 through a building. The course was 100% high voltage stuff. Nothing to do with networking or low-voltage communications wiring that I actually do. A complete waste of my time, but just enough to provide a barrier to entry to keep people who would only do intermittent work in Minnesota from crossing the border into Minnesota to compete.

(What was really funny was how someone in the class pointed out that the new electrical regulations for running conduit will put them in violation of fire regulations stating that the conduit must be run as close to the ceiling as possible while the new electrical regs say to mount it "x" down from the ceiling so the roofers don't but roofing nails through the conduit. So now it is impossible to run conduit in Minnesota and be in compliance of both fire and electrical regulations.)

Absent any regulations, if someone is a crappy barber they are not going to last long in the business. Barber shops live and die on repeat business and no barber is going to retain someone who is incompetent and drives their steady customers elsewhere.
 
2012-03-11 08:49:32 PM
So in other words, barbers in Iowa are better trained at their profession that most Farkers.
 
2012-03-11 08:53:07 PM

Hector Remarkable: 2,100 hours somehow seems like a lot of training to cut hair. And continuing education? In case, what, you forget how to cut hair? New technological developments in hair cutting?


Apparently, there's much more to this profession than cutting hair.

30.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-03-11 08:53:12 PM
So, take away the regulation on the barber, and let the free market work it out.
 
2012-03-11 08:56:41 PM

taurusowner: Evilsmurf: ghare: Evilsmurf: badhatharry: You're right subby. We don't need to regulate barbers.

The Democrat solution: Maybe we should regulate piercing studios.
The Republican/Libertarian solution: We don't need all these regulations on barbers.

As the libbiest lib that ever libbed - 2100 hours is WAY too much training to cut hair.

Agreed, but there should be some training required for cutting hair.

Why should there be? I would like to know why you think consenting adults need the permission of a bureaucracy in order to cut hair. I honestly would like to know why you like the idea of giving politicians that kind of power over your own choices, and more to the point, why you want to see others constrained by politicians.

I mean this in the most serious and least hyperbolic "MURICA" way possible. What about freedom to act how you see fit, so long as unwilling harm does not come to others, scares you so much? DO you really feel safer and more comfortable with life when you have the hand of another guiding your choices? Up to the point where you would seek to put everyone under that hand, just to placate yourself?


I like the idea that my barber knows how to make sure I don't get hair lice because they know the proper methods for sanitary cleaning of their tools. I like knowing that my Doctor went to medical school and passed his residency. I like knowing that my lawyer went to an accredited law school and passed the bar exam. I like knowing that people who I employ to provide services for me actually know what the fark they are doing. Government regulation is the best way of doing it to make sure everything is standardized by these conditions.

To answer your question government regulations prevent unwilling harm from coming to people.
 
2012-03-11 08:56:54 PM

Tergiversada: The other thing that freaks me out are the Latino parents who go to WalMart and want their little baby girl's ears pierced when she's about five days old.


Actually several cultures do something similar. And it probably has to do with the same reasoning for circumcisions by 8 days - it is going to hurt, they are going to cry, so why not do it when they are crying pretty much non-stop anyway?
 
2012-03-11 09:00:27 PM
SharkTrager
2012-03-11 08:47:35 PM
bindlestiff2600: there money to be made in finding reasons to charge people for being employed
next up in the near future - background checks (and fees) from newspaper delievery boys
What's a "newspaper delievery boy"?

heh- well maybe not (localy they still have newspaper delivery (adults - often with vans)) thats a dieing category indeed.
 
2012-03-11 09:00:29 PM
Why does a barber need 2100 hours of training in Iowa? the same reason they need thousands of hours in Kentucky, or Texas.

Pell grants.

Pell grants can only be used for accredited schools, and no self respecting accredited institution of higher learning or technical training can get students qualified for Pell grants if they have a measly number of hours in the course. But I do think it's a good idea that a barber knows why they keep the combs in the blue stuff.
 
2012-03-11 09:03:23 PM

Crosshair: Manfred J. Hattan: Or at least reduce the regulation to a test on how not to overapply perm solution, sanitary practices (including treatment of minor cuts), waste disposal, &ct. Most of these regulations started because of some real health risk before blowing up into massive training and regulationy schemes whose primary effect is to restrict competition.

Exactly. There is a reason most people already in the industry support these regs, because they get grandfathered in. The purpose is not to protect the public but to protect those already in the industry from competition.


Louisiana recently regulated florists. You have to have a freaking license to be a florist. It was pushed by the florist association to limit competition.
 
2012-03-11 09:08:17 PM
What a well-trained barber may look like. (new window)

/he didn't want to be a barber, anyway
 
2012-03-11 09:09:53 PM

traylor: Hector Remarkable: 2,100 hours somehow seems like a lot of training to cut hair. And continuing education? In case, what, you forget how to cut hair? New technological developments in hair cutting?

Apparently, there's much more to this profession than cutting hair.

[30.media.tumblr.com image 500x369]


*shakes tiny fist*
 
2012-03-11 09:10:51 PM
I was about to weigh in with a flurry of moral indignation and then I remember that when I was a young lad in Iowa, I got my ear pierced by a waitress that used her Big Boy Restaurant nametag to do the deed.

We sterilized it with fire and alcohol but still, I wasn't the sharpest arrow in the quiver.
 
2012-03-11 09:10:56 PM
Someone needs to start a Piercing Union and raise the bar of entry into the market.
 
2012-03-11 09:11:18 PM

proteus_b: there's a name for people who go to school for 2100 hours... they're called doctors...

/ironically, medical procedures were performed by barbers, once upon a time...


There are 2000 hours in a work year. 50 x 40. (2 weeks vacation.) Are you saying the doctor you go to has been to school for a year and 2.5 weeks? Hollywood Upstairs Medical School grad, is he?
 
2012-03-11 09:11:52 PM

Evilsmurf: taurusowner: Evilsmurf: ghare: Evilsmurf: badhatharry: You're right subby. We don't need to regulate barbers.

The Democrat solution: Maybe we should regulate piercing studios.
The Republican/Libertarian solution: We don't need all these regulations on barbers.

As the libbiest lib that ever libbed - 2100 hours is WAY too much training to cut hair.

Agreed, but there should be some training required for cutting hair.

Why should there be? I would like to know why you think consenting adults need the permission of a bureaucracy in order to cut hair. I honestly would like to know why you like the idea of giving politicians that kind of power over your own choices, and more to the point, why you want to see others constrained by politicians.

I mean this in the most serious and least hyperbolic "MURICA" way possible. What about freedom to act how you see fit, so long as unwilling harm does not come to others, scares you so much? DO you really feel safer and more comfortable with life when you have the hand of another guiding your choices? Up to the point where you would seek to put everyone under that hand, just to placate yourself?

I like the idea that my barber knows how to make sure I don't get hair lice because they know the proper methods for sanitary cleaning of their tools. I like knowing that my Doctor went to medical school and passed his residency. I like knowing that my lawyer went to an accredited law school and passed the bar exam. I like knowing that people who I employ to provide services for me actually know what the fark they are doing. Government regulation is the best way of doing it to make sure everything is standardized by these conditions.

To answer your question government regulations prevent unwilling harm from coming to people.


you don't have to go to law school to pass the bar.
and what kind of a nitwit are you that you care about whether your barber has 2100 hours of training rather than he be required to keep his place of business clean and sanitary?
you are a little scared man and stupid to boot.
 
2012-03-11 09:12:08 PM
http://www.safepiercing.org/
 
2012-03-11 09:13:32 PM

Crosshair: Manfred J. Hattan: Or at least reduce the regulation to a test on how not to overapply perm solution, sanitary practices (including treatment of minor cuts), waste disposal, &ct. Most of these regulations started because of some real health risk before blowing up into massive training and regulationy schemes whose primary effect is to restrict competition.

Exactly. There is a reason most people already in the industry support these regs, because they get grandfathered in. The purpose is not to protect the public but to protect those already in the industry from competition. This happens all over the place. I had to take a 2 hour training course for the state of Minnesota to be able to sling CAT-5 through a building. The course was 100% high voltage stuff. Nothing to do with networking or low-voltage communications wiring that I actually do. A complete waste of my time, but just enough to provide a barrier to entry to keep people who would only do intermittent work in Minnesota from crossing the border into Minnesota to compete.

(What was really funny was how someone in the class pointed out that the new electrical regulations for running conduit will put them in violation of fire regulations stating that the conduit must be run as close to the ceiling as possible while the new electrical regs say to mount it "x" down from the ceiling so the roofers don't but roofing nails through the conduit. So now it is impossible to run conduit in Minnesota and be in compliance of both fire and electrical regulations.)

Absent any regulations, if someone is a crappy barber they are not going to last long in the business. Barber shops live and die on repeat business and no barber is going to retain someone who is incompetent and drives their steady customers elsewhere.


And if the purpose was to make you happy, it would be a waste. But the purpose is to make the guy you are slinging cable for happy. The point of 2-hour barriers to entry is to weed out the complete farktards. I, as the guy getting cable strung, am assured that you are at least responsible enough to show up and take a 2-hour class. While 2100 hours is most likely too long (I have no idea what they cover in that time, so I don't know what constitutes a reasonable number of hours), part of the point is to make sure the state is doing due diligence on the applicant. If they made it a Wild West free-for-all, somebody would complain the state was giving their imprinteur to completely unqualified people. So, the state sets it up where you have to want it enough to jump through a few hoops. Then it adds in a couple of hoops to weed out the borderline cases. Thus, anyone who gets the gold-star certificate is probably not Uncle Carl's inbred retard cousin, but a guy you would actually trust to play with your computer/electric grid and/or hold sharp objects around your head
 
2012-03-11 09:17:59 PM
It's about money and not training.
 
2012-03-11 09:18:55 PM

bmihura: 2,100 hours of training to cut hair?

I cut my own hair quite well with roughly 0 hours of training.


*checks profile*

No, you don't.
 
2012-03-11 09:19:23 PM
One of my clients is a cosmotology college. They spend a lot of time deaing with the chemicals used in hair coloring, straightening, nail treatments, etc.

Of course, they also spend a lot of time dealing with how to show up on time, not make yourself look like a complete tard, and how not to get fired over what seem like, to me, simple common sense things. The classes are filled with some of the most broken people I have ever seen, though there are a few exceptions and those people usually go on to own their own businesses.

It costs $11,000.

I think a simply barber should be able to get a particular license, and then have different levels, but the training itself is an industry and they lobby hard to keep that barrier in place.
 
2012-03-11 09:21:46 PM

bmihura: 2,100 hours of training to cut hair?

I cut my own hair quite well with roughly 0 hours of training.


So now we know you're

(a) probably male and

(b) wear a simple buzz cut, probably 1/2" or shorter

That doesn't mean that being able to produce all the other hairstyles and handle sharp equipment used on multiple people doesn't require some training.

//Though, that said, 2100 hours is probably a throwback to when you'd go to the barber to get shaved with a straight razor. I know in Texas that's actually the explicit difference between a "barber" (can shave you) and a "stylist" (cannot shave you), with the latter requiring significantly less training for cert.
 
2012-03-11 09:24:00 PM

bmihura: BSABSVR: bmihura: 2,100 hours of training to cut hair?

I cut my own hair quite well with roughly 0 hours of training.

Pics or it didn't happen.

To be fair, I'm a guy who uses an Oster electric trimmer to shave my entire head to 1/16" or so about every three days ;) There are no skills needed in my case. No pic needed, you can imagine it.


Aw, you ruined my cheap shot. :-)
 
2012-03-11 09:24:39 PM
2100 hours does seem excessive, the average is somewhere between 1200-1600 hours. The continuing education is to keep up to date on sanitation practices and current trends or new methods. In Texas, at least, you need 2 hours each of sanitation, laws and rules, and something related to cutting/color/etc. This (new window) is what goes into 1500 hours of school.

I really wouldn't trust an unlicensed person to cut my hair, mostly because there's no guarantee they even know how to sanitize their tools.

The states you should be worried to get haircuts in are the ones that don't have a practical test (like Florida).
 
2012-03-11 09:28:01 PM

proteus_b: there's a name for people who go to school for 2100 hours... they're called doctors...

/ironically, medical procedures were performed by barbers, once upon a time...


Because they had the sharpest blades around and used them frequently and well. Considering the most popular medical procedure a few hundred years ago was bleeding someone, a sharp blade is all you really needed.


/the familiar barber pole came into being as a drying rack for bloody rags
 
2012-03-11 09:31:32 PM

bindlestiff2600: there money to be made in finding reasons to charge people for being employed

next up in the near future - background checks (and fees) from newspaper delievery boys


Let me guess how much the fee will be....

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-03-11 09:33:08 PM
I know there are some licensed pilots on fark.

Remind me again how many hours you need for a license to fly a plane.....
 
2012-03-11 09:35:22 PM

lenfromak: Hector Remarkable: 2,100 hours somehow seems like a lot of training to cut hair. And continuing education? In case, what, you forget how to cut hair? New technological developments in hair cutting?

You save a lot cutting your own hair, if you don't count the therapy.

Likely some rich Des Moines guy back in 1912 got a bad haircut and, as a result, lobbied relentlessly to get passed the barber laws you have there today. Of course, I made that up, but something like it would explain some of the professional licensure laws that we see across the country that seem to make little sense.


Why is no one coming to my optional Barber College? I know, I'll grease some politicians to make it mandatory.
 
2012-03-11 09:36:20 PM
Tergiversada:

Those people are creepy. They're the ones who always look like they fell down the stairs while holding a tacklebox. The other thing that freaks me out are the Latino parents who go to WalMart and want their little baby girl's ears pierced when she's about five days old.

I can't get that mental image out of my head... and I continue to snicker. Well played.
 
2012-03-11 09:41:08 PM
I'm going to take a guess that a lot of the barber/hair stylist training is in regards to things like blood precautions, sanitation (anti-fungals, etc), and chemical safety for things like bleach, dyes, etc. 2100 hours sounds like a lot, but its basically 1 year of vocational school.

Piercing is potentially much more dangerous in terms of infections and other harm to the customer (piercing too shallow, too deep, etc), especially when you start getting into more extreme body modifications. I don't know what the minimum of training should be, but there should be basic licensing/training requirements and probably regular health department inspections.
 
2012-03-11 09:42:07 PM

Tergiversada: The other thing that freaks me out are the Latino parents who go to WalMart and want their little baby girl's ears pierced when she's about five days old.


Yeah... i worked at a walmart in a small town with a large mexican population. The hispanic girl who worked in the jewelry dept was equally weirded out by that and had no explanation, but she couldnt exactly refuse.
 
2012-03-11 09:42:26 PM
2100 hours? That is asinine.

What does the piercing have to do with anything?
 
2012-03-11 09:42:58 PM
Trade licensing is more of a traditional effort to restrict the number of practitioners and keep income high than achieve any meaningful regulation.

Obviously, body piercers have not felt the economic pressure to band together to drive out competition to protect profits.
 
2012-03-11 09:43:10 PM

newton: I know there are some licensed pilots on fark.


You can get a private helicopter license with 40 hours of flight time.
 
2012-03-11 09:44:14 PM

newton: I know there are some licensed pilots on fark.

Remind me again how many hours you need for a license to fly a plane.....


That's a fairly generic question. 40 hours to be a private pilot flying a small car with wings. How many hours of training did you need to drive a 6000-lb SUV to make sure you wouldn't run over a kid that didn't run out into the street? Maybe one including the driving test you took as a teenager?

/2100 hours for a barber is still ridiculous
 
2012-03-11 09:45:15 PM
At some point my daughter is going to want to get her ears pierced. It is going to be interesting trying to find a good piercer who doesn't look like they fell into a tackle box. Oh the joys of parenthood.

Of course the reason for a hair sylist needing 2100 hours of training is to reduce the number of stylists out there. It is one step down from taxi medallions.

Are there any certifications or something like that for piercers?
 
2012-03-11 09:46:59 PM
hotoffpress.files.wordpress.com
"Who's the barber here?"
 
2012-03-11 09:49:37 PM
TheGreatGazoo


See my previous post.
 
2012-03-11 09:49:58 PM

newton: I know there are some licensed pilots on fark.

Remind me again how many hours you need for a license to fly a plane.....


I soloed at 10 hours, which means the instructor got out of the aircraft and I took off and flew around by myself. I still can't believe it. Others do it at 9 hours, 11 hours or whatever their instructor is comfortable with. My dad soloed it at about 7 hours, IIRC, but he was doing carrier training in WWII. They didn't fark around during wartime. Get 'em in the air ASAP.

Anyway, minimum flight time under FAR Part 141 for a fixed-wing private pilot is 35 hours.
 
2012-03-11 09:50:34 PM

TheGreatGazoo: At some point my daughter is going to want to get her ears pierced. It is going to be interesting trying to find a good piercer who doesn't look like they fell into a tackle box. Oh the joys of parenthood.

Of course the reason for a hair sylist needing 2100 hours of training is to reduce the number of stylists out there. It is one step down from taxi medallions.

Are there any certifications or something like that for piercers?


Some advice: go to the tacklebox person. That person knows the need for sanitation first hand, knows what size can be put where, how to select non-allergenic jewelry and whatnot.

Alternatively, go to a place that employs someone with that many piercings and pick the other person working. They pierce each other, after all.
 
2012-03-11 09:51:00 PM

MadAzza: newton: I know there are some licensed pilots on fark.

Remind me again how many hours you need for a license to fly a plane.....

I soloed at 10 hours, which means the instructor got out of the aircraft and I took off and flew around by myself. I still can't believe it. Others do it at 9 hours, 11 hours or whatever their instructor is comfortable with. My dad soloed it at about 7 hours, IIRC, but he was doing carrier training in WWII. They didn't fark around during wartime. Get 'em in the air ASAP.

Anyway, minimum flight time under FAR Part 141 for a fixed-wing private pilot is 35 hours.


I mean, for a private pilot certification. Sorry for the incomplete explanation.
 
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