There's already a book (new window)on the subject.

It's profitable, and it serves the interest of some segments of society.

/It's a national embarrassment.

Obvious tag in solitary confinement?

An awful lot of prisons are not privately run. This accusation has been around almost longer than privatized prisons. How it's profitable for the state is not made clear.

Ricardo Klement: An awful lot of prisons are not privately run. This accusation has been around almost longer than privatized prisons. How it's profitable for the state is not made clear.

By criminalizing everything, it's made the police and the state supreme. It is in the best interest of police departments to bust a lot of drug crimes because anything that could have been purchased with drug money is kept by those departments, allowing them to become wealthier, purchase more stuff, militarize their swat teams, you name it. Bust a lot of small fish and eventually you get a lot of big fish.

Then there's the social aspect. By busting a lot of petty drug users, you get them permanently off the government teat, once they are out of prison. They cannot collect any kind of poverty assistance (drug charges mean you cannot receive welfare, food stamps, housing assistance, whatever). They can be legally discriminated against in the job market. If you are on public assistance, you cannot have an ex-drug offender living in your home, so families are often broken up, because one parent with drug charges cannot live with the rest of the family. It keeps the poor trapped in poverty, all while other people can blame them for their downfall because it was their choice to use the drugs in the first place (forgetting of course, that if so many drugs and drug related behaviors were treated as addictions, rather than criminal behavior, they wouldn't be in jail in the first place).

When laws end up making criminals out of 70 or 80% of any population - black, white, brown, citizens, whatever, - they are BAD laws.

Outstanding claims require outstanding proof. This all sounds conspiracy-theorish to me and I'm going to need some evidence other than "follow the money".

GAT_00: Well then as long as there is still one state owned prison there isn't a problem!

You're missing the point. What is the motivation for a state without private prisons to have high incarceration rates? It seems as if we were perfectly capable of incarcerating a huge number of people before profit became a motive. That would suggest there's another problem.

GAT_00: Kimothy: When laws end up making criminals out of 70 or 80% of any population - black, white, brown, citizens, whatever, - they are BAD laws.

Not to mention there's the small disparity when crime is decreasing yet more people are imprisoned every year. We imprison a greater percentage of our population than any other country in the world.

Clearly, the system is totally fine.

False dichotomy.

GAT_00: Kimothy: When laws end up making criminals out of 70 or 80% of any population - black, white, brown, citizens, whatever, - they are BAD laws.

Not to mention there's the small disparity when crime is decreasing yet more people are imprisoned every year. We imprison a greater percentage of our population than any other country in the world.

Clearly, the system is totally fine.

China still has us beat. USA! USA!

Ricardo Klement: Outstanding claims require outstanding proof. This all sounds conspiracy-theorish to me and I'm going to need some evidence other than "follow the money".

GAT_00: Well then as long as there is still one state owned prison there isn't a problem!

You're missing the point. What is the motivation for a state without private prisons to have high incarceration rates? It seems as if we were perfectly capable of incarcerating a huge number of people before profit became a motive. That would suggest there's another problem.

Who cares if it is a conspiracy or something else. Doesn't locking up such a huge percentage of the population seem a bit ridiculous? When did America become a country of criminals?

There is a ton of recent research about the criminalization of common behaviors. We arrest 8 year olds for fighting on the playground. We have police officers in schools because the things we did as kids - you know, where we learned our lesson and moved on - are now criminal behaviors that follow them for LIFE.

Again, I have to ask - when did America become a country of criminals?

GAT_00: Kimothy: China still has us beat. USA! USA!

Actually, not by population percentage. We're ahead by a long shot there.

Awesome. We're the best at EVERYTHING. Including locking up our peeps. USA! USA!

//They still execute more than us, right?

GAT_00: Ricardo Klement: It seems as if we were perfectly capable of incarcerating a huge number of people before profit became a motive.

We imprison more people today than ever before, and the number of people imprisoned increases every year, as does the number of private prisons. The trend accelerated when private prisons came into existence.

The War On Crime started the problem and private prisons accelerated it. Never mind the problem with people taking plea bargains because they don't know how to properly navigate the system and unable to prove their innocence because they're going up against an anonymous undercover detective who said they sold something 6 months ago, and then they get picked up in a sweep.

The system is designed to put more people in prison every year, innocence be damned.

How does incarceration look if you were to decriminalize drug use?

Ricardo Klement: GAT_00: Ricardo Klement: It seems as if we were perfectly capable of incarcerating a huge number of people before profit became a motive.

We imprison more people today than ever before, and the number of people imprisoned increases every year, as does the number of private prisons. The trend accelerated when private prisons came into existence.

The War On Crime started the problem and private prisons accelerated it. Never mind the problem with people taking plea bargains because they don't know how to properly navigate the system and unable to prove their innocence because they're going up against an anonymous undercover detective who said they sold something 6 months ago, and then they get picked up in a sweep.

The system is designed to put more people in prison every year, innocence be damned.

How does incarceration look if you were to decriminalize drug use?

State governments would have a lot of money for things other than maintaining the prison system.

This experiment has already been done, with great success, in other countries. Portugal dropped to one of the lowest drug-use rated countries in the world when they decriminalized all drugs and dedicated the money to addiction and drug treatment. Costs less, benefits the population more.

Ricardo Klement [TotalFark]
How does incarceration look if you were to decriminalize drug use?

Cut by at least half and If the example of Portugal holds up to any extent in the US ;drug addiction will be reduced along with the crimes surrounding drugs. The problem comes with all of the people employed to wage war on people and drugs would need jobs and people not arrested and incarcerated because of sanity coming into public policy would need work.

eurotrader: Ricardo Klement [TotalFark]
How does incarceration look if you were to decriminalize drug use?

Cut by at least half and If the example of Portugal holds up to any extent in the US ;drug addiction will be reduced along with the crimes surrounding drugs. The problem comes with all of the people employed to wage war on people and drugs would need jobs and people not arrested and incarcerated because of sanity coming into public policy would need work.

I can just see the politicians justifying our harsh penalty system by saying "where would all the prison guards and police work if we let so many people out of jail?"

//Don't think you are saying that - just can see THEM saying it.

King Something: Police would rather have 1,000 innocent people be locked up and their lives ruined than one guilty person set free for any reason.

The police don't imprison people. Judges do.

Kimothy [TotalFark]

If want to feel real disgust for the system look at John Lovell and the prop 19 mess. The primary reason he lobbied against it at the same time he advise governments on how to get Federal funding to wage war on pot is to continue to be paid. Nothing more than greed and disregard for humanity

The comments in TFA are just a beacon of enlightenment.

If the stat in TFA is true and 1 in 9 executed prisoners were found innocent, that is beyond inexcusable.

eurotrader: Ricardo Klement [TotalFark]
How does incarceration look if you were to decriminalize drug use?

Cut by at least half and If the example of Portugal holds up to any extent in the US ;drug addiction will be reduced along with the crimes surrounding drugs. The problem comes with all of the people employed to wage war on people and drugs would need jobs and people not arrested and incarcerated because of sanity coming into public policy would need work.

Seems to me that would be the right first step, then.

More of us must speak up. We must take responsibility for human suffering and despair even when we are conditioned not to see it. We need to challenge ourselves to work toward meaningful solutions, like rehabilitation and reform. We need to talk about the ugliest chapters of our history; we need to talk about race and poverty. Most of all we need to talk about injustice. Because until we confront injustice, I believe its stain will shadow all of our accomplishments.



or we could watch more american idol.

People do NOT want to look around them and see how f*cked up things really are. Just look at what's happened to the OWS movement - they just ask for a chance to have a discussion and frequently get a 2am off camera beat down for it.

WhyteRaven74: How about making private prisons illegal? That would be a nice start.

sure, you could try that...but the private prison industry would spend millions to lobby against you. And I wouldn't put it past a few corrupt law enforcement types to throw you or your family into a cell to shut you down.

Mugato: If the stat in TFA is true and 1 in 9 executed prisoners were found innocent, that is beyond inexcusable.

You misread that, not that a correct reading makes it LOADS better.

Mugato: If the stat in TFA is true and 1 in 9 executed prisoners were found innocent, that is beyond inexcusable.

That was the big [citation needed] moment of the article.

I guess I might have misread it too.

Ricardo Klement: An awful lot of prisons are not privately run. This accusation has been around almost longer than privatized prisons. How it's profitable for the state is not made clear.

You mean besides seized property auctions? Besides linking convictions with bonuses? Besides to the Congresscritters who bring home bacon to their districts in the form of prisons? Besides corruption? Besides making the War on Drugs a way to pad out police retirement pensions? Besides the contracts to even state run prisons by private firms who donate to their favorite Congresscritters?

It's not just for profit prisons, but a whole prison industry at this point.

hubiestubert: Ricardo Klement: An awful lot of prisons are not privately run. This accusation has been around almost longer than privatized prisons. How it's profitable for the state is not made clear.

You mean besides seized property auctions?

Most crimes do not include this. They don't seize your property for burglary. And they get to do that even if you aren't imprisoned.

Besides linking convictions with bonuses?

How does the state profit from that?

Besides to the Congresscritters who bring home bacon to their districts in the form of prisons?

I thought they were too busy bringing MIC jobs to their districts.

Besides corruption?

That's vague and unspecific.

Besides making the War on Drugs a way to pad out police retirement pensions?

Then the War on Drugs is profitable, not imprisonment.

GAT_00: CruiserTwelve: King Something: Police would rather have 1,000 innocent people be locked up and their lives ruined than one guilty person set free for any reason.

The police don't imprison people. Judges do.

That's a dumb thing to say when you can't get hauled in front of a judge unless the police decide you've committed a crime.

I've always wondered if the cops in Luzerne County were ever questioned about their role in the court house corruption scandal. Either the cops were complete idiots (they HAD to know a 100% conviction rate in all cases was hinky) or they were in on the scam. Every kid they brought in went to jail, every time and every cop involved just shrugged and went 'meh'.

Or, wait, no, because they committed crimes and are now paying for them.

Tatsuma: Or, wait, no, because they committed crimes and are now paying for them.

Of course! And behaviors that were perfectly acceptable even 20 years ago haven't been criminalized AT ALL!

Kimothy: Of course! And behaviors that were perfectly acceptable even 20 years ago haven't been criminalized AT ALL!

Infanticide was a perfectly acceptable behavior not so long ago, and yet it is now criminalized.

Values in a society changes, sometimes for the best.

that's why, hopefully in a near future, simple possession of marijuana will not be seen as a crime worth sending people to jail for, either fines or nothing at all.

Tatsuma: Or, wait, no, because they committed crimes and are now paying for them.

Arrested for resisting arrest is such a heinous crime. Let's lock them up.

Ricardo Klement: GAT_00: Ricardo Klement: It seems as if we were perfectly capable of incarcerating a huge number of people before profit became a motive.

We imprison more people today than ever before, and the number of people imprisoned increases every year, as does the number of private prisons. The trend accelerated when private prisons came into existence.

The War On Crime started the problem and private prisons accelerated it. Never mind the problem with people taking plea bargains because they don't know how to properly navigate the system and unable to prove their innocence because they're going up against an anonymous undercover detective who said they sold something 6 months ago, and then they get picked up in a sweep.

The system is designed to put more people in prison every year, innocence be damned.

How does incarceration look if you were to decriminalize drug use?

"Michelle Alexander says that many of the gains of the civil rights movement have been undermined by the mass incarceration of blacks in the war on drugs." (click: On Fresh Air from WHYY)