give him over to the Afghani people. He is no longer deserving of US Justice.

It was only a matter of time before something like this happened. We lost a lot of people from our supposed allies turning their guns on us and several more over this stupid Koran incident. Between that and a rIdiculous ROE over there someone was gonna snap and go apeshiat on these people.

Glitchwerks: PlatinumDragon: Afghan officials are claiming more than one was involved, and that they were laughing and appeared drunk.

This is rapidly going downhill.

Jesus Christ.

Try him in Afghan court, and put the death penalty on the table. This is the ONLY way they will save face in this nightmare. Otherwise they are wasting their time even apologizing for this. No debate, no discussion, just give him to the mob. Otherwise they might as well just hand Afghanistan back over to the Taliban. The people won't accept anything but Afghan justice.

At least his actions can be explained by mental illness, unlike the Afghans who killed people over their book of fairy tales being burned.

9beers: beer4breakfast: Most Americans are ignorant about other cultures and how the US is viewed. They are ignorant about the destruction that is caused in their name by the US military. And then they are genuinely perplexed when the blow back finally makes it back to them.

I don't agree with any of that.

Americans are culturally isolated. They need a passport to visit any country, which few have. Few speak a second language, and even fewer have much grasp of history. They also lack the curiosity to overcome this because they feel the US is the greatest country on earth. This is why the narrative for waging war is shaped in terms of good vs. evil by politicians, because Americans as a whole are ignorant enough to actually believe it.

the_chief: I don't care.

You should, but I'm not surprised that you don't. People in this country care about very little that happens beyond their own front doors. This man wears the uniform of the US Army, and this is what he's doing in our country's name, to a sovereign country's citizens.

It's an offense and an affront to every American. It shames us all.

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: RussianPooper: SkinnyHead: Dinki: Great. Now Obama will have to offer another apology (which he should), and the wingnuts will roll out their Obama apologizing derp train.

Obama was warned that apologizing the way he did would have a very negative effect on morale. Bad things happen when morale is low like that.

You must be quite limber, because that is an incredible stretch.

Actually it's not. The rank and file despise Obama and I'm certain that Koran apology didn't help one bit.

Don't you dare speak for me.

I am in the United States Army, I am a Registered Democrat, I voted for President Obama and plan to vote for him again, I know many fellow servicemembers who did and will do it again.

Yeah, a whole lot who are conservatives too, probably more of them than they are of us, but don't try and paint everybody in uniform with one brush.

What we all have in common is we volunteered to put on this uniform and go in harms way, our only unifying political ideology is patriotism, not conservatism.

Go back to your bridge, troll.

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: Satanic_Hamster: Predictions:
Right wing radio hosts and Congressional leaders will declare this guy a hero.
American soldiers will die as a result of this guys actions.
If he gets out of prison, he'll become the next Senator from South Carolina.

He is a hero, at least in my book.

That's because you're just a filthy jihadist, yourself. You are morally identical to Al Qaeda, to have that attitude. Either we ARE morally better than those slime, which means we are to NEVER act like them or we are free to pull shiat like going from house to house, murdering civilians in some perverted "revenge" fantasy enactment, at which point we are morally identical to the slime in Al Qaeda. Which is it, Buckwheat?

beer4breakfast: Americans are culturally isolated. They need a passport to visit any country, which few have. Few speak a second language, and even fewer have much grasp of history. They also lack the curiosity to overcome this because they feel the US is the greatest country on earth. This is why the narrative for waging war is shaped in terms of good vs. evil by politicians, because Americans as a whole are ignorant enough to actually believe it.

THIS

I know people who are convinced that America is the only country to have skyscrapers, indoor plumbing, and medicine.

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: I would know personally what the rank and file thinks of Obama because I've been in for 13 years and those who support Obama are VERY few and far between. So yeah, that broad brush is fairly effective here.

I would have said I respect your views seeing as how you are, or at least you claim you are, actually serving but since you acted like the one or 2 other self-righteous leftys I know around here.......well........

The liberals in uniform, just like the atheists and pagans in uniform I know, tend to keep their personal views (be they religious or political) quiet because they know that blowhards will give them grief over it. We aren't as open about our beliefs because we know that intolerant farktards would make our lives hell.

So, you don't respect my views, and even imply I'm not actually in the military, because I actually bother to say them and they aren't the RNC/FOX News party line, and say them nicer than the conservatives did (but still forcefully)? That makes me "self righteous"? It's treatment like that why anybody who isn't a Republican Christian tends to just STFU and keep to themselves in the Army (or USAF, or USMC, or USCG, or USN. . .)

Igor Jakovsky: And we already have some soldiers from that rouge unit that were killing civilians for sport on trial.

/time to vote RON PAUL and get the fark out now.

There, fixed that for you. Bolded for emphasis.

People who think they'll be electing King Emperor Lord High Ron Paul the First of the United States, who will magically execute his will to fix all problems, domestic and foreign, and create a land of magical sunshine and candy-smelling farts are both deluded and ignorant of the three branches of the Federal Government, as well as just as annoying as the right-wing theocrats who blame Gays and the Mooslems for every street light that blows a bulb.

jehovahs witness protection: The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii

Please don't quote that guys garbage. People have that douche on ignore for a reason.

BudTheSpud: Glitchwerks: PlatinumDragon: Afghan officials are claiming more than one was involved, and that they were laughing and appeared drunk.

This is rapidly going downhill.

Jesus Christ.

Try him in Afghan court, and put the death penalty on the table. This is the ONLY way they will save face in this nightmare. Otherwise they are wasting their time even apologizing for this. No debate, no discussion, just give him to the mob. Otherwise they might as well just hand Afghanistan back over to the Taliban. The people won't accept anything but Afghan justice.

In my opinion, they 'should' hand him over to the Afghans, no ifs, ands or buts about it. Just give em over and tell his family that he surrendered his right to an American court by acting as he did.

If the situation was reversed and an Afghan soldier killed American citizens, I sincerely doubt we'd let the Afghans try him in an Afghani court.

What do you expect to happen when you send 18 year olds to a worthless part of the country with allies that turn around and shoot your friends?

Those people bring absolutely nothing to the table and we shouldn't be there. F**k politicians for starting these pointless wars

Predictions:
Right wing radio hosts and Congressional leaders will declare this guy a hero.
American soldiers will die as a result of this guys actions.
If he gets out of prison, he'll become the next Senator from South Carolina.

9beers: At least his actions can be explained by mental illness, unlike the Afghans who killed people over their book of fairy tales being burned.

Killing people over make believe sky wizards isn't a mental illness?

Coelacanth: beer4breakfast: Americans are culturally isolated. They need a passport to visit any country, which few have. Few speak a second language, and even fewer have much grasp of history. They also lack the curiosity to overcome this because they feel the US is the greatest country on earth. This is why the narrative for waging war is shaped in terms of good vs. evil by politicians, because Americans as a whole are ignorant enough to actually believe it.

THIS

I know people who are convinced that America is the only country to have skyscrapers, indoor plumbing, and medicine.

The other day Santorum said that nothing changed in human existence for 2000 years, then America came along and gave us modern life. Yeah, nothing happened to improve the human condition for 2000 years... no major advancements.... right. Sad thing is people just eat that shiat up. This country is fixated on making ourselves believe that we are gods compared to the rest of civilization, no matter what lies we must tell ourselves, no matter how bad the cognitive dissonance, many of us will do/say anything to hold onto our false beliefs.

BronyMedic: It does not matter what the Afgani people want. He committed a crime as an American Soldier, under American Jurisdiction, while serving in a zone of active conflict. According to the rules of the UCMJ, he is the jurisdiction of the United States alone.

And the Afghan people don't give a flying fark what the UCMJ says. Why on earth should they?

Do you for one moment think that any Americans would be satisfied if the situation were reversed, with the US under occupation from the "ChiComs" and some random PLA soldier who doesn't speak more than 2 words of English and has been contemptuous of "whitey" for months came and shot up some God-fearing Christian family in a rural "true America" town?

The law is what the law is, but politics don't always work like that.

Heck, there's all kinds of bad PR even around the various peacetime US bases, when military personnel behave badly and they're not handed over to the local civilian authorities fast enough, and that's just for garden variety jail.

Similarly all the talk about how the Afghans are crazy because they riot over the burning of a Koran - it's not just about the burning of a Koran. That's only the merest straw that finally tips things over the edge. It's just symbolic of all the rest of the shiat that's constantly going on - occupation.

And of course absolutely it's going to suck for all the rest of the foreign (including US) military troops over there too, not that they're the main victims in this at all but yeah, it's not fair to them either.

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Osama bin Laden is dead, and he wasn't even in Afghanistan. Why the fark are we still there?

mltain: Ain't payback a biatch!


I wish there was a "Stupid" button as well as a "Smart" and "Funny" one.

I had a friend who argued they could start a world war with a video camera, a Koran, a full bladder, a full bowel and YouTube.

I told them they were full of shiat. Now I'm not so sure anymore.

CharlieBrown: We killed Osama. Time to GTFO.

We should have been out of that entire area, not just Afghanistan, years ago, and I hold both Bush and Obama accountable for that. Neither were winnable wars, because we weren't fighting a people, we were fighting an ideology. An ideology that will continue to exist no matter how many people are slaughtered.

According to the Wikipedia the U.S. military hasn't executed anyone since 1961, but it's still an available punishment for murder.

Two-step solution for this:

1. Rapid court martial and execution

2. GTFO

I don't know how you could continue to have American soldiers in the presence of armed Afghan 'allies' after this, given the treatment of revenge in their culture.

Unfortunately, if history shows us anything, it's that this buy will barely even see the inside of a prison cell. They'll hold him for six months, have a farce of a trial, slap him with Time Served, and then maybe, if they're feeling particularly harsh, discharge him. Maybe.

Look up My Lai. Notice how much prison time anyone served.

Preserved_Killick: Both sides are guilty of demonizing the other side and in equal portions

Yeah, this is pretty demonstrably false, but whatever helps you feel better about yourself.

I hear he has already been contacted by the IDF and offered a job.

El Freak: Mrbogey: Satanic_Hamster: Right wing radio hosts and Congressional leaders will declare this guy a hero.

I notice that whenever something bad happens like this the Left starts talking about how much the right-wing must like it. Then when they're shown to be wrong they pretend as if they were right and go about making more equally wrong predictions.

Have you ever stopped to realize that you're as awful as the people you hate and only by a stroke of luck did you end up on the left-wing posting on Fark and not on the right-wing posting on Stormfront?

Based on past experience, he made a pretty logical prediction. I've never met a conservative that didn't mindlessly worship the troops and treat each individual soldier as infallible demigods.Unless, of course, one of those troops turns out to be one of them godless homoqueers or something.

I'm sick of people pretending that there's an equal amount of hate and vitriol coming from the left and the right in this country. There's not. There is nothing, NOTHING, coming from the American left that even approaches the level of hatred and vitriol that the right has been spewing out on a daily basis for the past 20 years or so.

OWS and the anti-war rallies were plenty vitriolic. Half of fark posts and facebook news feeds (both sides) are essentially saying "if you disagree with me, you're an idiot, a monster or ignorant." Of course this isn't true, but most people believe it . Both sides are guilty of demonizing the other side and in equal portions. Both sides may not recognize this because each side feels righteous about their anger.

SkinnyHead: Dinki: Great. Now Obama will have to offer another apology (which he should), and the wingnuts will roll out their Obama apologizing derp train.

Obama was warned that apologizing the way he did would have a very negative effect on morale. Bad things happen when morale is low like that.

The only thing I will agree with you on is that he shouldn't apologize. He should hand over the soldier to Afghan authorities and put the death penalty by firing squad on the table. The average Afghan will not accept anything less. I don't know how I can emphasize this any more than that. Blood for blood. That's all they understand over there. Either they execute this guy, or the Afghanis will go apeshiat once the news spreads and there will be plenty more violence. The righties are kidding themselves if they think this will just blow over, and the lefties are kidding themselves if empty apologies and military court-martials are going to calm things down.

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: Guess_Who: rev. dave: I would like someone who knows this better than me to give me more information about the culture of deployed troops and their leaders.
Is mental illness still thought of as a character weakness that one must hide or was that never really an issue?
What happens when a well trained combat soldier is left too long with a serious mental illness in the field?

How does one express anger in a healthy way while deployed, healthy means not using violence or weapons as stress relief?

As someone who spent 3 /12 years over there. I can say doing something like what he did was always talked about, just never done. Until now of course. I know what was going on in his head. The district where that happened is full of hardcore Taliban supporters. Sad to see a soldier snap like that.

Finally a somewhat sane comment here.

I agree completely. However this is not unexpected due to the state of affairs over there. From what friends tell me it's not pretty at all.

This same shiat happened in Nam, and it's going to keep happening in Afghanistan. You take sheltered, civilized boys, send them to some unspeakable shiathole full of savages, with vague instructions to intervene in quarrels between those savages, and no achievable objective - and they'll eventually go nuts and start killing every Goddamn thing they see.
Works every time.

I believe our soldiers are heroes, for fighting when I'm not.

But I wholly agree: this man's hands should be bound behind his back, and he should be delivered in a cart to the local courts. It's the only way to prevent this blowing up in our faces, and I'm depressed that he won't be handed over for fitting punishment.

Carth: GBB: Carth: 9beers: At least his actions can be explained by mental illness, unlike the Afghans who killed people over their book of fairy tales being burned.

Killing people over make believe sky wizards isn't a mental illness?

Not according to the 90% of the world's population that believes in a sky wizard of some sort.

Is mass delusion classified as a mental illness?

It's pretty strange how we classify 'illness'.

If we accept that 90% of the world now believes in a 'sky wizard' and, historically, that number was even higher; it would be pretty easy to make an argument that people *lacking faith* are the ones suffering from a mental illness.

Normally, it's not enough for something to be 'rare', it isn't an illness unless it puts you at some sort of disadvantage; but I'm pretty sure enough people would argue that lacking a type of religious faith would put you at a disadvantage. I have read studies that found people could tolerate higher levels of pain while saying a prayer than doing most anything else.

PonceAlyosha: Thisbymaster: It is sad and bad for any hope of peace.

The only hope for peace is for us to farking leave Afghanistan to the farking Afghans. Why the fark are we there? Bin Laden was in farking Pakistan, the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, why does Afghanistan matter?

-------------------------

That's the exact question no U.S. political leader or pundit will answer truthfully. There is no hope for any military or civil resolution as long as we continue to occupy and kill their citizens. Whether or not they are terrorists or civilians, provoked or unprovoked, it doesn't matter. We are the occupiers and there is no imminent threat. We should not be there.

rev. dave: I would like someone who knows this better than me to give me more information about the culture of deployed troops and their leaders.
Is mental illness still thought of as a character weakness that one must hide or was that never really an issue?
What happens when a well trained combat soldier is left too long with a serious mental illness in the field?

How does one express anger in a healthy way while deployed, healthy means not using violence or weapons as stress relief?

As someone who spent 3 /12 years over there. I can say doing something like what he did was always talked about, just never done. Until now of course. I know what was going on in his head. The district where that happened is full of hardcore Taliban supporters. Sad to see a soldier snap like that.

Mugato: Sun Worshiping Dog Launcher: During my days of Warcraft, I found all too often that if douchebaggery was being committed, especially if it involved some level of cowardice, it was going to be a Paladin doing it. Being able to wear plate, bubble and heal to full health and/or bubble and hearth seemed to attract far more asshats than the rogue class did.

Oh, the headline is a WoW thing. Thanks.

/hates it when I don't get a headline

It's actually a generic table-top/RPG reference, of which WOW is one. It's more likely a DnD reference, as WOW paladins don't have any mechanism for alignment restrictions.

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: Satanic_Hamster: Predictions:
Right wing radio hosts and Congressional leaders will declare this guy a hero.
American soldiers will die as a result of this guys actions.
If he gets out of prison, he'll become the next Senator from South Carolina.

He is a hero, at least in my book.

American Soldiers are being killed over a farking book that got thrown in the trash by mistake, not to mention all the deaths at the hands of our supposed allies who have been turning their guns on us.

Even after all this, if he ran for Senate I'd still vote for him before any Democrat.

A little blatant, especially with the name.

I know you think you're being funny, but I really wish they'd ban people like you by IP address. Trolling accounts aren't funny, it's just moronic.

Thisbymaster: It is sad and bad for any hope of peace.

The only hope for peace is for us to farking leave Afghanistan to the farking Afghans. Why the fark are we there? Bin Laden was in farking Pakistan, the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, why does Afghanistan matter?

It is sad and bad for any hope of peace. But so many will forget the bombs that are set off by Taliban and other terrorists that killed hundreds more women and children included. But this just underscores the idea that we need to get out of that worthless sand bowl. Let them fight and kill each other until there is no one left.

Lane83: I read the comments on the Fox News version of the story.

Ow. My soul.

I wonder what Fox News comments would look like (or, hell, let's say Torygraph given the scenario I'm about to lay out) if the people under occupation were American, the books that had been disposed of were Bibles, and the occupying troops were primarily Chinese. Imagine the reaction to PLA "stabilization" troops going out and shooting up a small Alabama town.

This is what people wanted, right? Taking off the gloves and waging real war?

Hold on, a guy from 2ID did this one month before I go 20K down the road to train ASVN? Thanks asshole.

So this is where our colonialist policy gets us? The goddamned Bushnell Carbineers had more honor than our disgraced military.

dryknife: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Osama bin Laden is dead, and he wasn't even in Afghanistan. Why the fark are we still there?

[images.smh.com.au image 420x266]

and

I went over to FOX just to read the comments. I shall not biatch about the quality of discourse on this board for at least one week. It's NUTS over there.

The guy needs to be tried, and possibly executed. You can't just let people plan their own massacres, and yeah, 14 is a damned massacre. I'm sad about this one all around, from the families of the needlessly killed to the soldiers family. Sucks all around.

NewportBarGuy: He should do it, but in an election year? Come on, you know your country better than that. He'd be crucified as wasting the lives of thousands of Americans with nothing to show for it or abandoning their "mission" or whatever.

And that's my problem. Obama's been prioritising avoidance of personal political backlash over the lives of the soldiers out there.

He was elected to lead, not to duck out of the difficult decisions because Republican blowhards would blow harder.

Court martial and public execution. Problem solved.

how are we the "good guys" again?

a pox on all killers.

Nice going, yanks. You gonna give him a slap on the wrist like you did William Calley? Or maybe award him a medal like the captain of the USS Vincennes who shot down an Iranian airliner and killed 290 people, including 66 children?

DArque Bishop: BronyMedic: Bfett20: give him over to the Afghani people. He is no longer deserving of US Justice.

Sure thing. That's totally a legal standard we want to set. Question, on that note. I'm going to go out on a limb her and say you're either a Christian, Atheist/Agnostic, or Jew. Are you cool with us turning you over to Iran, Egypt, Pakistan, Sudan, Qatar, or any other country which has a law against apostasy?

No, because I have never been to any of those countries that you listed other than the United Arab Emirates, so I wouldn't be subject to their justice systems. In addition, I have never been nor claimed to be Muslim, so apostasy doesn't apply to me.

On the other hand, this guy was in their country when he committed his crime against their people. I believe the right thing to do IS to hand him over to them, as they are a sovereign country and he did not commit his crime while following superiors' orders.

Surely you could have come up with a better comparison?

Good news!

Since you've been to the UAE, you're good to go! (To the UAE). Apostasy is a death sentence there too.

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: Satanic_Hamster:
He is a hero, at least in my book.


Even after all this, if he ran for Senate I'd still vote for him before any Democrat.

That is what is what makes you mentally insane. Cheering the deaths of innocent human beings and
holding the murderer up as a hero. How the hell can you sleep at night?

Silverstaff: The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: I would know personally what the rank and file thinks of Obama because I've been in for 13 years and those who support Obama are VERY few and far between. So yeah, that broad brush is fairly effective here.

I would have said I respect your views seeing as how you are, or at least you claim you are, actually serving but since you acted like the one or 2 other self-righteous leftys I know around here.......well........

The liberals in uniform, just like the atheists and pagans in uniform I know, tend to keep their personal views (be they religious or political) quiet because they know that blowhards will give them grief over it. We aren't as open about our beliefs because we know that intolerant farktards would make our lives hell.

So, you don't respect my views, and even imply I'm not actually in the military, because I actually bother to say them and they aren't the RNC/FOX News party line, and say them nicer than the conservatives did (but still forcefully)? That makes me "self righteous"? It's treatment like that why anybody who isn't a Republican Christian tends to just STFU and keep to themselves in the Army (or USAF, or USMC, or USCG, or USN. . .)

No, it's your attitude not your beliefs that make you self-righteous. You could have easily made your point without name-calling but you had to go straight there.

Igor Jakovsky: acefox1: RidgeRacerZX6: [www.bikeland.info image 622x348]

Nicely done. Breaker Morant should be required viewing for everybody.

If you've never seen it, it's on Netflix Streaming. Go watch it.

It's scary to me that its lessons seem to get more applicable with each passing year.

Im going to watch this now after reading a bit more about it on IMDB, thanks

After you watch that one, watch Gallipoli. The ending scene is actually based in reality. There was written testimony to its accuracy.

/those crazy Australians and their war movies

When we kill civilians - Rogue soldier.
When they kill civilians - All Muslims are evil.

Got it.

accelerus: if you put someone for 10 years in a sand pit where they watch as mindless religious farks blow themselves and everyone else up over a book or sky wizard.... you'd probably lose your mind a bit too..

What about the people who have lived their all of their lives? Would you say that living in that environment is a good-enough reason for them to join the Taliban and commit senseless acts of murder?

accelerus: if you put someone for 10 years in a sand pit where they watch as mindless religious farks blow themselves and everyone else up over a book or sky wizard.... you'd probably lose your mind a bit too.

it sucks yes, and is probably the best example of why we have NO BUSINESS in that F'd up part of the world. It's been in dispute for centuries, CENTURIES. Did we think we could just stroll in wave the us flag and everyone would start enjoying the sweet life?

The guy in the article has problems, but if some of my best buddies got murdered because they threw a book in the trash... I'd probably lose my mind as well.

Why are you trying so hard to explain and even justify this person's actions? He "has problems" but you can see yourself on his position? Really? If he mass murdered people in the United States I doubt you'd be so understanding.

I'm not surprised at all. More I am shocked it doesnt happen more often. The guys while trained are sent over to another country and in some cases really try to help build it to be a better nation only to be shot at repeatedly and have their friends killed because of something outside anyone's control. Stress will build before you crack and only see other people as not human. We were really just fighting a battle in afganistan and iraq, having the rich be a little greedy and trying to build up that country back to 1970 level of culture. If the US wanted a war and I mean a real war it would just be murder. You dehumanize the enemy to the point that they get treated as nothing but animals. Japan did that in WWII, Germany to jews in WWII, USSR to Berlin in WWII, South Korea is guilty of that with the north and Vietnam saw that happen more than once honestly by the US. Today's "war crimes" would be considered mild compared to what would be done if the US really lost control over their soldiers, same with Russia or any any other fighting force. Soldiers WILL break, a solo soldier shooting in a couple houses in a village is pretty mild honestly compared to what they could do if pushed hard enough or if they had a group.

The thing is I am explaining is if the military really loses control of its forces it would be like this but with many many more shootings, raping, etc. Why do you think no one wants to invade North Korea now and days? You think 100% of those soldiers are just going to switch over to the country that won a war? Hell no, quite a few will totally snap and you will have more than just a few thousand doing just what this guy did but in China, Russia, South Korea and even in North Korea on his own people.

I feel sorry for everyone involved, the dude obviously snapped from stress of being there and or something and the people whos family members that were killed are just regular people who didnt choose to be born into a shiathole country full of idiots. It especially sucks when kids are the victims, children are the same no matter where they're from.

BudTheSpud: mltain: Ain't payback a biatch!


I wish there was a "Stupid" button as well as a "Smart" and "Funny" one.

A "troll" button would get more use that Smart or Funny.

Not least because Fark has more trolltastic comments than Smart or Funny comments, but still.

if you put someone for 10 years in a sand pit where they watch as mindless religious farks blow themselves and everyone else up over a book or sky wizard.... you'd probably lose your mind a bit too.

it sucks yes, and is probably the best example of why we have NO BUSINESS in that F'd up part of the world. It's been in dispute for centuries, CENTURIES. Did we think we could just stroll in wave the us flag and everyone would start enjoying the sweet life?

The guy in the article has problems, but if some of my best buddies got murdered because they threw a book in the trash... I'd probably lose my mind as well.

The entire thing is a lost cause -- just imagine the 1.3 TRILLION dollars that have been spent over there that could have gone to upgrading our electrical grid, aging bridges, or other things we need. Instead we spent it all on a people that hate us and have nothing to show for it but death.

BronyMedic: BudTheSpud: You really think the Afghan people are going to accept that?

It does not matter what the Afgani people want. He committed a crime as an American Soldier, under American Jurisdiction, while serving in a zone of active conflict. According to the rules of the UCMJ, he is the jurisdiction of the United States alone.

Are you sure that he committed his crimes while acting as a US Soldier? Seems to me that he was off-duty. I would HOPE that his responsibilities do not include shooting civilians! Let's pray that military distances itself from this atrocity by pulling out the "outside the scope of his duties" mantra.

If I am not mistaken, Panetta has already voiced this exact phrase. Give him to the Afghanis if he was not soldiering for the US when he did it.

Right now theres probably thousands of folks in Afghanistan getting ready to riot in the country over this. The military has a huge PR mess on their hands. The way they handle this could end up deciding the outcome of this whole war.

Any hopes of winning the hearts and minds of the people depends on how they percieve justice being served to this guy. The military would be smart to not take anything off the table right now.

From an article on MSNBC...

"This is an anti-human and anti-Islamic act," said Khan. "Nobody is allowed in any religion in the world to kill children and women."



O RLY?

Anyone remember when Bush apologized to Iraq for the soldier that used the Koran as target practice?

No?

9beers: Basically, fark what the Afghan people want.

And you wonder why we are in this mess in the first place...

BronyMedic: The idea that an American Citizen is "No longer deserving of US Justice", a constitutional right, is a dangerous slippery slope


Soldiers do not have the same Constitutional rights as civilians. UCMJ outlines their rights.

Satanic_Hamster: Predictions:
Right wing radio hosts and Congressional leaders will declare this guy a hero.
American soldiers will die as a result of this guys actions.
If he gets out of prison, he'll become the next Senator from South Carolina.

Meanwhile Bradley Manning is in solitary confinement 23 hours a day for supposedly putting people's lives in danger.

GungFu: Nutsac_Jim: He was probably offended at something. Apparently, in soth Asia being offended means you can kill someone legally. No problem, next case...


I take it you mean South Asia. If so...

South Asia?

Get a map, ffs, western infidel.

Pick one, Capt. Rotsky (new window).

I hope enjoyed your 12 minutes of feeling smug about yourself.

So, like... How is this guy different from every other active duty member of the military who are either directly or indirectly responsible for murdering civilians? It's kind of the whole reason they're there.

/Graveyard of empires

pippi longstocking: So let me get this straight, getting a bunch of poor stupid impressionable young men and giving them a license to kill and the firepower to level a country is going to create sociopathic behavior? I mean who the hell foresaw this?

Nobody, apparently.
You know, Nam would have been worth it if we'd learned anything from it.

DavidVincent: Don't hold your breath waiting for the Republicans or the Democrats to get us out mid-east wars.

Oh, I'm not. But I'm not expecting a racist, Dominionistic creationist who expresses the desire to do things which wouldn't even be possible even with the executive powers given to him as the President of the United States.

Hince, I refer to his supporters trying to get him elected as Emperor King Admiral High First Lord Ron Paul of the United States, esq.

Silverstaff: The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: RussianPooper: SkinnyHead: Dinki: Great. Now Obama will have to offer another apology (which he should), and the wingnuts will roll out their Obama apologizing derp train.

Obama was warned that apologizing the way he did would have a very negative effect on morale. Bad things happen when morale is low like that.

You must be quite limber, because that is an incredible stretch.

Actually it's not. The rank and file despise Obama and I'm certain that Koran apology didn't help one bit.

Don't you dare speak for me.

I am in the United States Army, I am a Registered Democrat, I voted for President Obama and plan to vote for him again, I know many fellow servicemembers who did and will do it again.

Yeah, a whole lot who are conservatives too, probably more of them than they are of us, but don't try and paint everybody in uniform with one brush.

What we all have in common is we volunteered to put on this uniform and go in harms way, our only unifying political ideology is patriotism, not conservatism.

Go back to your bridge, troll.

I would know personally what the rank and file thinks of Obama because I've been in for 13 years and those who support Obama are VERY few and far between. So yeah, that broad brush is fairly effective here.

I would have said I respect your views seeing as how you are, or at least you claim you are, actually serving but since you acted like the one or 2 other self-righteous leftys I know around here.......well........

When in Rome...

We just need to get out of there. The Taliban will continue to throw acid in the faces of uppity women and girls. They will continue to grow heroin and weed while we patrol through their farms. They'll continue to destroy priceless artifacts.

Let the Russians go back in. They have better mines. They look like toys.

So let me get this straight, getting a bunch of poor stupid impressionable young men and giving them a license to kill and the firepower to level a country is going to create sociopathic behavior? I mean who the hell foresaw this?

walkerhound: From MSNBC:

"This is an anti-human and anti-Islamic act," said Khan. "Nobody is allowed in any religion in the world to kill children and women."

Umm...about your religion of peace there, Khan.

How do you say "Hypocrite" in Pashtu?

What does anyone expect from there. How could anyone expect normal?
Alcohol is bad but heroin is okay.
They murder women for seemingly innocuous issues.
There are feuds that go on for generations.
The only people that don't engage in corruption simply haven't been offered the chance.

Get us out as soon as possible and put this behind us. Fix what we can, pay for what we broke, apologize where necessary and never go back, never look back and never engage in this sort of thing again.
No matter how much war profiteers complain

It's times like this that I miss the wit of Donald Rumsfeld.

/may he burn in hell

tblax: The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: Satanic_Hamster: Predictions:
Right wing radio hosts and Congressional leaders will declare this guy a hero.
American soldiers will die as a result of this guys actions.
If he gets out of prison, he'll become the next Senator from South Carolina.

He is a hero, at least in my book.

American Soldiers are being killed over a farking book that got thrown in the trash by mistake, not to mention all the deaths at the hands of our supposed allies who have been turning their guns on us.

Even after all this, if he ran for Senate I'd still vote for him before any Democrat.

Great troll or terrible human being? Cannot tell...

I'm not trolling, lets get that out of the way for starters.

Second, if I fit your left wing definition of a terrible human being I must be doing something right.

Igor Jakovsky: /time to vote RON PAUL and get the fark out now.

Yes, let's put a crazy assed creationist in office. Can't see that going wrong in any way.

Bfett20: give him over to the Afghani people. He is no longer deserving of US Justice.

I'd be okay with this.

An American court martial will pat him gently on the wrist, his buddies will buy him rounds at the bar after the hearing, and zero consequences will be suffered by anybody anywhere.

"Justice". Uh-huh. Even my right wing military-minded southern relatives don't believe that anymore.

chicagogasman: The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: ManateeGag: SkinnyHead: Dinki: SkinnyHead: Dinki: Great. Now Obama will have to offer another apology (which he should), and the wingnuts will roll out their Obama apologizing derp train.

Obama was warned that apologizing the way he did would have a very negative effect on morale. Bad things happen when morale is low like that.

So this is Obamas fault. Right.

Was Abu Ghraib Bush's fault?

It's too early to tell whether this is Obama's fault. I'm just saying that apologizing the way he did leads to bad morale, and bad morale can lead to things like this.

I get it now, you aren't in prison. you're in the nut house. you must have been very good this month in order to get so much time on Fark.

Not too bright are you? That's alright, I forgive you for being a self-righteous douche.

I wish that the Fark powers that be would ban trolls like you by your IP address. You are not funny, you are not smart, you are just a callous little frightened monkey. Yes I went to name calling.

Who said I intended to be funny?

I really don't care if I fit your definition of being smart ( which really means left-wing ).

Callous little monkey? Come on, you can do better than that.

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: ManateeGag: SkinnyHead: Dinki: SkinnyHead: Dinki: Great. Now Obama will have to offer another apology (which he should), and the wingnuts will roll out their Obama apologizing derp train.

Obama was warned that apologizing the way he did would have a very negative effect on morale. Bad things happen when morale is low like that.

So this is Obamas fault. Right.

Was Abu Ghraib Bush's fault?

It's too early to tell whether this is Obama's fault. I'm just saying that apologizing the way he did leads to bad morale, and bad morale can lead to things like this.

I get it now, you aren't in prison. you're in the nut house. you must have been very good this month in order to get so much time on Fark.

Not too bright are you? That's alright, I forgive you for being a self-righteous douche.

I wish that the Fark powers that be would ban trolls like you by your IP address. You are not funny, you are not smart, you are just a callous little frightened monkey. Yes I went to name calling.

RussianPooper: The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: RussianPooper: SkinnyHead: Dinki: Great. Now Obama will have to offer another apology (which he should), and the wingnuts will roll out their Obama apologizing derp train.

Obama was warned that apologizing the way he did would have a very negative effect on morale. Bad things happen when morale is low like that.

You must be quite limber, because that is an incredible stretch.

Actually it's not. The rank and file despise Obama and I'm certain that Koran apology didn't help one bit.

SO this guy went crazy because he doesn't like Obama?

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it?

Mugato: I realize what this guy did is not the same as lobbing missiles into an area knowing with 100% assurance that civilians will be killed but the results are the same.

What does Hamas have to do with this?

GBB: Fark_Guy_Rob: Carth: GBB: Carth: 9beers: At least his actions can be explained by mental illness, unlike the Afghans who killed people over their book of fairy tales being burned.

Killing people over make believe sky wizards isn't a mental illness?

Not according to the 90% of the world's population that believes in a sky wizard of some sort.

Is mass delusion classified as a mental illness?

It's pretty strange how we classify 'illness'.

If we accept that 90% of the world now believes in a 'sky wizard' and, historically, that number was even higher; it would be pretty easy to make an argument that people *lacking faith* are the ones suffering from a mental illness.

Normally, it's not enough for something to be 'rare', it isn't an illness unless it puts you at some sort of disadvantage; but I'm pretty sure enough people would argue that lacking a type of religious faith would put you at a disadvantage. I have read studies that found people could tolerate higher levels of pain while saying a prayer than doing most anything else.

Historically speaking, lack of faith was treated as an illness of sorts. Treatment usually involved high levels of pain and death. Sometimes family and friends were also "treated" due to the threat of "infection".

Sounds more like how believers were treated in 1930's USSR or Mao's China. More recent too.

Was only a matter of time before we heard about Westerners in a shiatholeistan going native.

SkinnyHead: Dinki: SkinnyHead: Dinki: Great. Now Obama will have to offer another apology (which he should), and the wingnuts will roll out their Obama apologizing derp train.

Obama was warned that apologizing the way he did would have a very negative effect on morale. Bad things happen when morale is low like that.

So this is Obamas fault. Right.

Was Abu Ghraib Bush's fault?

It's too early to tell whether this is Obama's fault. I'm just saying that apologizing the way he did leads to bad morale, and bad morale can lead to things like this.

So...we shouldn't apologize for doing things, because it might lead to retards doing more things? Does someone have that deep thoughts pic handy?

Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war.

If you're surprised by this you are very young or very naive. This is every war since there was such a thing as war, unless it's fought in a place where the civilians have already all left.

We're lucky in the U.S. we haven't fought a war inside the states in a long time.

He was probably offended at something. Apparently, in soth Asia being offended means you can kill someone legally. No problem, next case...

Throw him to the wolves.

Satanic_Hamster: Predictions:
Right wing radio hosts and Congressional leaders will declare this guy a hero.
American soldiers will die as a result of this guys actions.
If he gets out of prison, he'll become the next Senator from South Carolina.

Well, your first one is about to come true. Here's a comment from the average Fox News viewer:

"Give the Soldier a MEDAL OF HONOR... that's what he deserves! Pity he didn't take more out when he did."

Clearly this guy is a "dittohead". And the fascist wing of US politics has a tendency to go a wee bit sideways when a symptom of their failed policies explodes in their collective face; they end up whitewashing (and even embracing) the worst behavior.

I think prediction #2 will become manifest by week's end but prediction #3 is probably 15-20 years off. And he'll probably win governor of Idaho or something.

doglover: Totally not paragon, dude.

That must be a 4e reference, 'cause I don't completely get it.

/ stopped paying attention after 3.5

*cough* bullshiat *cough*

It was probably some Afganny looking to get the US blamed.

o5iiawah: Oh good, this is another thing for which our president can apologize.

You don't think he should apologize? Tell me then, oh wise one, who is so knowledgeable in international relations, what should the President do and say?

Bfett20: give him over to the Afghani people. He is no longer deserving of US Justice.

Agreed.
If he was acting under the authority of US commanders and did something stupid (like previous killings of civilians) then you can make the case that he warrants US court martial.
In this case, he used the military to get passage to a foreign country, and murdered that country's citizens on their soil. IANAL, but if this does not cause him to forfeit his rights to trial under the UCMJ, then we have a horribly botched system.
Competent, albeit corrupt and horribly mismanaged, civil authority exists out there. He can live in their prisons for a few months (I've visited a couple, ... he should have a blast on Man-Boy-Love-Thursdays) and go through their judicial proceedings, all in Pashtu, of course.
Maybe he can hire a local terp, and if his family can scrape together the money, he might be able to pay the blood price and go free to come back home.

Infernalist: Best to pack up, fly em home and leave a note saying "If you make us come back here, we'll bring nukes next time."

See, that is exactly the point. If we leave, we either leave a functioning nation, or we leave a glass plain.

Afghanistan will not be a haven for terrorists. No nation will.

Revenge for the Concordia!

PonceAlyosha: Infernalist: AQ is toast, and the Taliban have been living in caves(like that's a bad thing for them) for the last 10 years. I think it's safe to say that we're not doing much good in Afghanistan now. Best to pack up, fly em home and leave a note saying "If you make us come back here, we'll bring nukes next time."

They didn't make us go there the first time!

We went there because we demanded that the Taliban give up OBL and other AQ leaders. They refused, we went in and kicked over their huts and set up shop.

Did they physically make us go there? lol no. But, did they give us real reason to go there? Yup. Don't mistake Afghanistan for Iraq.

Carth: GBB: Carth: 9beers: At least his actions can be explained by mental illness, unlike the Afghans who killed people over their book of fairy tales being burned.

Killing people over make believe sky wizards isn't a mental illness?

Not according to the 90% of the world's population that believes in a sky wizard of some sort.

Is mass delusion classified as a mental illness?

Not according to the 90% of the world's population that are massly deluded.

BudTheSpud: Glitchwerks: PlatinumDragon: Afghan officials are claiming more than one was involved, and that they were laughing and appeared drunk.

This is rapidly going downhill.

Jesus Christ.

Try him in Afghan court, and put the death penalty on the table. This is the ONLY way they will save face in this nightmare. Otherwise they are wasting their time even apologizing for this. No debate, no discussion, just give him to the mob. Otherwise they might as well just hand Afghanistan back over to the Taliban. The people won't accept anything but Afghan justice.

"Both parties in the suit have agreed to dismiss their media outrage and have their dispute settled here by blindly executing the Plaintiff in our forum: THE AFGHAN COURT."

bogatti: If he is white, and he probably isn't ( front page in an instant ) they will try to try him in the Hague, pay off the Afghans and Obama will bow to them.
If he is a different color ( anything but white ) they will blame Bush, pay off the Afghans and Obama will bow to them.
If it didn't happen at all. We will still pay off the Afghans, Obama will bow to them, somehow Bush will be blamed for deforesting the world and killing baby polar bears and seals ( the cute ones ). and in the Hague the UN will put Christianity on trial, ask us for more money and call us inhumane.

You sound oppressed.

Peter von Nostrand: Rouge soldier was better

Agreed.

GBB: Carth: 9beers: At least his actions can be explained by mental illness, unlike the Afghans who killed people over their book of fairy tales being burned.

Killing people over make believe sky wizards isn't a mental illness?

Not according to the 90% of the world's population that believes in a sky wizard of some sort.

Widespread irrationality is still irrational.

Carth: 9beers: At least his actions can be explained by mental illness, unlike the Afghans who killed people over their book of fairy tales being burned.

Killing people over make believe sky wizards isn't a mental illness?

Not according to the 90% of the world's population that believes in a sky wizard of some sort.

god fu*king dammit, what horrible news, those stupid drunk punks just put so many of their fellow soldiers into more danger, they just knocked into homes and killed human beings for no fu*king reason? jesus christ are there no screenings done?

chapman: When we burn their Qurans the locals freak out and kill civilians. Maybe if we kill their civilians they'll freak out and burn their Qurans.

+1 for teh funnay.

rev. dave: I would like someone who knows this better than me to give me more information about the culture of deployed troops and their leaders.
Is mental illness still thought of as a character weakness that one must hide or was that never really an issue?
What happens when a well trained combat soldier is left too long with a serious mental illness in the field?

How does one express anger in a healthy way while deployed, healthy means not using violence or weapons as stress relief?

The military has gone to great lengths to help those with PTSD and anger issues. We undergo regular screenings while depolyed as well as before and after. There is ALWAYS someone to go see if need be.

As for the stigma? It's fading with time. Pretty much any Soldier or Marine with any time in service has been deployed a couple of times and they get it now.

That being said, with all that has been going on over there with the green on blue killings, stupid ROE and all the rest, I knew it was a matter of time before someone went apeshiat and started killing people like this.

PlatinumDragon: Afghan officials are claiming more than one was involved, and that they were laughing and appeared drunk.

This is rapidly going downhill.

for who? going down hill for who the USA ?

poor USA.. (eyeroll)

another generation of suicide bombers has just been created , can you blame them?

USA should have been gone from there a long long time ago
... but has yet to learn the lessons of history for occupiers and liberators.


Terribly terribly sad for those families - USA GTFO for your own good .

Bfett20: give him over to the Afghani people. He is no longer deserving of US Justice.


I agree.

During my days of Warcraft, I found all too often that if douchebaggery was being committed, especially if it involved some level of cowardice, it was going to be a Paladin doing it. Being able to wear plate, bubble and heal to full health and/or bubble and hearth seemed to attract far more asshats than the rogue class did.

Satanic_Hamster: Predictions:
Right wing radio hosts and Congressional leaders will declare this guy a hero.
American soldiers will die as a result of this guys actions.
If he gets out of prison, he'll become the next Senator from South Carolina.

He is a hero, at least in my book.

American Soldiers are being killed over a farking book that got thrown in the trash by mistake, not to mention all the deaths at the hands of our supposed allies who have been turning their guns on us.

Even after all this, if he ran for Senate I'd still vote for him before any Democrat.

I was going to congratulate subby for at least spelling "rogue" correctly, but apparently he didn't.

A soldier with mental problems? Well, I've never heard of such a thing. Oh wait--I have. The US military just never has.

I read the comments on the Fox News version of the story.

Ow. My soul.

Train him not told them said I...mmmmmmmm...

Afghan officials are claiming more than one was involved, and that they were laughing and appeared drunk.

This is rapidly going downhill.

Totally not paragon, dude.